Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Captains come and go
By Boris Mellor
August 4 2010
This is not written by a Johnny come lately bandwagon hopper, I have supported the club for over 50 years, and I have gone two periods when the club went 17 years and 18 years without winning the league. I am not about to throw the toys out of the pram if Arsenal go another season without winning a trophy.
I don't expect Arsenal to win anything this coming season but I will be very happy to be proven wrong. But that is not the issue I wish to consider here, for me the issue is the growing lack of integrity that is beginning to permeate the club. A lack of integrity that is, not for the first time, beginning to undermine the club.
This lack of integrity is highlighted by the method of the now famous "want away captain system", the method by which new captains are chosen. It would seem that the main quality required to become an Arsenal captain is that a player needs persuading to stay, that he is being pursued by a big club.
So we start with Vieira, he was pursued by Real Madrid; the solution was to make him Captain. Well he did stay, and each transfer window he led us through a press fiasco identical to the Fabregas one at the present, and then when he least suspected it Wenger gave him the boot. The only reason he stayed was because Real refused Galtico's wages, not loyalty to Wenger, fans, or the club. If Real had stumped up for his wage demand he would have left a season earlier, and the last trophy would have been 2004, not 2005.
Henry was an identical case, he was persuaded to stay by appointing him captain, and he was even given an enormous loyalty bonus of at least £5 million. He became insufferable, contributed to Reyes downfall and was booted out to Barca when it was clear to anyone but the wilfully blind that he was no longer up to playing in the premiership. Wenger had squeezed the lemon dry and cashed in.
Gallas was a different case, he didn't threaten to leave, he just made some criticisms of Wenger's youth policy that were too near the mark, so to shut him up Arsene made him captain. And then there was Fabregas, which is where we came in. Cesc begun to attract Barca's attention and lo and behold he was made captain mainly to keep him loyal. When Fab goes RvP will be captain and then maybe gone a year later, that's if he can stay fit.
On every occasion Wenger's choice of captain has been criticised, sometimes wrongly, and sometimes correctly, but that is not the issue here. Vieira wasn't great, but not half bad, Henry was dreadful, Gallas a disaster who unwittingly made a contribution to destabilising a title chase that for a while seemed a cert. No team has ever started so well and then failed to win the league, but that's water under the bridge.
Wenger's reply to criticisms of his appointed captains is that the job isn't that important. If that is the case then Wenger is undermined by his own verbal dexterity, for if the role is not important then why should a non important appointment keep a player at Arsenal who wants to leave? Is it an honours system like an OBE or CBE?
An OBE is a meaningless bauble to reward people who work hard without giving them reasonable wages. Not that the comparison fits our overpaid under worked players who can't be bothered to defend for 90 minutes. However, if the award of captain amounts to no more than an honours system then it is no wonder they leave anyway.
Then Fabregas got the post, and until this summer I thought he was doing a wonderful job, his response to the Ramsey leg break was a lesson to Gallas on how to react to adversity. For a brief moment I saw what looked like a real Arsenal captain, a Tony Adams, a Joe Mercer or Frank Mclintock. His role was inspirational at Stoke; he stuck it up them like he did to the idiot from Hull.
Unfortunately, I can't understand how a player who is playing ducks and drakes with his commitment to Arsenal whilst his team mates toil in the fields of pre season training can be a good captain. If there was any integrity left in the club he would be told to commit or give up the armband. You might say that is not realistic, well I don't believe that having a captain undermine pre season preparation is realistic either.
But this is no longer about individuals, it's about a method, a method that has seen every captain that Wenger has ever appointed (apart from Adams, who was already a fixture) gives up the post after a few years. Every captain, apart from Gallas, has played the "I want away, but I don't want to ask for a transfer" game right up to the start of a new season.
Henry assured us he would never leave and went a week later. Vieira pledged himself to Arsenal and Wenger booted him out a week later. Surely there is something wrong here? The method doesn't work, I understand why the method is used, but a lack of integrity always undermines the intended aim. Wenger needs to look at new ways of choosing captains, and new ways of keeping players loyal, for the reality is that his method has failed on both of the above counts.
Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
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Date: 04/08/2010 10:52
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Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:11
I hear you - that gobshite Beckham gets an MBE for being an iliterate @#$%& - yet my father in law, who stormed Normandy on Juno beach and foughht his way past Rommels Panzers into Berlin didn';t get one - neither did the the thousands of brave men who fought for Britianm Europe and liberty -- hypocrissy has been around a long time.
Great point about Wenger sqeezing the lemon dry - Henry was f.ucked by the time he put ona Barca shirt and that dirt bag Viera: a tight piece of s.hit - as soon as he was offered 60k (10k less than he was earning at AFC) instead of the 120k he thought he was going to get - the low-life decides to stay. We were lucky to get rid of him when we did- his knees were shot.
Great point about Wenger sqeezing the lemon dry - Henry was f.ucked by the time he put ona Barca shirt and that dirt bag Viera: a tight piece of s.hit - as soon as he was offered 60k (10k less than he was earning at AFC) instead of the 120k he thought he was going to get - the low-life decides to stay. We were lucky to get rid of him when we did- his knees were shot.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: psymon1982 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:34
Maybe Wenger doesn't hand over the captaincy in order to get players to stay at the club. I believe he gave it to Paddy because he was a leader, Henry too was a leader. The fact they were courted by other clubs is not due to them flirting. It's simply down to good players always being linked with tranfers. That's what sells papers during the months of no football.
I think your pessamistic views on how Wenger makes decisions and run's the club are sad and stink of being a conspiracy theorist.
I think your pessamistic views on how Wenger makes decisions and run's the club are sad and stink of being a conspiracy theorist.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Bergmars (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:36
Henry was no leader.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:41
Good read, I have already said that Cesc pass on the armband this summer whether he stays or goes, because if he stays, as soon as he has a bad performance with the armband on people are going to start slating him saying he isnt commited. Why not alleviate that pressure and give Vermaelen the chance to shine, he won't be going anywhere soon you can see he likes his football and his no nonsense attitude is the exact trait ive been looking for in a captain since the Adams days.
RVP could also be in with a shout but he doesnt seem to play enough to warrant it, we need a steady leader on and off the pitch and Cesc is far from that at this moment in time. Some of our players have already spoken about the uncertainty surrounding Cesc's future and although they think he will stay for now they havent even spoken to him to find out, so he's kind of keeping everyone in the lurch, which cant be good for team morale.
Having said that, big things are going to happen next summer, some very big things, for one Wenger's contract will be up, his future, along with Cesc's, will have a big impact on this club one way or another, alot of our current crop have pledged there alliegce not to the badge, not to the red and white shirt, not to the fans, but to Wenger, as soon as we get rid of these mercenaries the better I reckon, I expect a good few to leave, but also a good few that love the club to stay, this season could be the end of an era so I for one will enjoy it, going in with no expectations, infact I have some very low expectations regarding our champions league future, but for now im going to sit back, watch some good football and try not to get too stressed about things.
RVP could also be in with a shout but he doesnt seem to play enough to warrant it, we need a steady leader on and off the pitch and Cesc is far from that at this moment in time. Some of our players have already spoken about the uncertainty surrounding Cesc's future and although they think he will stay for now they havent even spoken to him to find out, so he's kind of keeping everyone in the lurch, which cant be good for team morale.
Having said that, big things are going to happen next summer, some very big things, for one Wenger's contract will be up, his future, along with Cesc's, will have a big impact on this club one way or another, alot of our current crop have pledged there alliegce not to the badge, not to the red and white shirt, not to the fans, but to Wenger, as soon as we get rid of these mercenaries the better I reckon, I expect a good few to leave, but also a good few that love the club to stay, this season could be the end of an era so I for one will enjoy it, going in with no expectations, infact I have some very low expectations regarding our champions league future, but for now im going to sit back, watch some good football and try not to get too stressed about things.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: sonofnorris (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:55
but paddy was ok in my books
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 11:55
Has who is captain got anything to do with being a way to give that guy a pay rise. That used to be the way and was why david o'leary graham rix and kenny sansom got the armband.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: JoppaRoad (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:00
Good article. Its nice to read articles that are balanced. Questions have to be asked but I find I just get slagged off when I question Arsenal these days - you are classed as a 'doom merchant' or 'spud'.
Wenger needs to address a lot of the concerns that are brewing.
JR
www.joppas.wordpress.com
Wenger needs to address a lot of the concerns that are brewing.
JR
www.joppas.wordpress.com
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: sonofnorris (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:04
gooner mike wat do u mean by wengers future will have a big impact on the club one way or another...do u think it would b good if he stays? or do u want a fresh start?
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:12
Quote:psymon1982
Maybe Wenger doesn't hand over the captaincy in order to get players to stay at the club. I believe he gave it to Paddy because he was a leader, Henry too was a leader. The fact they were courted by other clubs is not due to them flirting. It's simply down to good players always being linked with tranfers. That's what sells papers during the months of no football.
What conspiracy? Wenger doesnt have to conspire with any one - and i never suggested he did.
Paddy was a leader with flaws - flaws that saw him flirt with Real year after year. He could have denied transfer rumours he never did. Yes he gave it to Paddy because he was leader, but he let him remain Captain as he played ducks and drakes year after year.
Henry a leader? A leader doesnt demoralise his own players, nor fraternise with the enemy. A great player yes a great leader no.
Adams was a captain for two decades, Wenger has never had a captain that lasted half a decade, so there must be something wrong Mr Fragrant
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:14
Who cares?
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:18
Not sure really, could go either way, with a fresh start other managers may be more effective and will invest more in certain areas, but we will probably lose some of flashy football we play, if Wenger would stop being so stubborn in the transfer market then I would give him my full backing but his reluctance to touch the cookie jar when the team is so weak in certain areas (we dont even have a number one) makes me doubt he will turn things around.
For now, I would prefer he wins something this season, an FA Cup, even a Carling Cup will do, then if he does leave there will be something to remember him by. After all he's done for the club I would hate for him to leave empty handed.
For now, I would prefer he wins something this season, an FA Cup, even a Carling Cup will do, then if he does leave there will be something to remember him by. After all he's done for the club I would hate for him to leave empty handed.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 12:19
Quote:Super Hans
Who cares?
Anyone with a remote interest in Arsenal? So not you?
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: goonergerry (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:11
Its great to read a blog from a gooner with a similar vintage. Too many so called gooners these days do not support the club- they support the cult of Arsene Wenger. Arsene Wenger has not made Arsenal- we were here over 100 years before him.
You make many very valid points-this Cesc fiasco is only the latest one- it is a well established pattern. We all know Cesc is a good player- but we also know he aint one of us-by his choice. His loyalties are with Barcelona. Wenger is making a mockery of the club making kids like him who are desperate to play elsewhere captain. I think he has made it clear that he does not want to play for us- and should be sold-if Barcelona cant pay- then he should go elsewhere to someone who can.
As for Henry-he was a great player for us- a far better player than Fabregas is-but he courted Barcelona for 3 seasons before he moved there- are those the actions of a player who should captain a side- who others look up to as the leader on the field?
As for Vieira -the guy was an active antagonist in the Cole affair-some captain he turned out to be! These guys have one thing in common- they have no real loyalty to Arsenal- we are a convenient stopover to a big club.
If Wenger wants to stay and be successful at Arsenal-he needs to look at the culture and leadership on the pitch and he needs to develop players with a genuine commitment to the club as captains.
You make many very valid points-this Cesc fiasco is only the latest one- it is a well established pattern. We all know Cesc is a good player- but we also know he aint one of us-by his choice. His loyalties are with Barcelona. Wenger is making a mockery of the club making kids like him who are desperate to play elsewhere captain. I think he has made it clear that he does not want to play for us- and should be sold-if Barcelona cant pay- then he should go elsewhere to someone who can.
As for Henry-he was a great player for us- a far better player than Fabregas is-but he courted Barcelona for 3 seasons before he moved there- are those the actions of a player who should captain a side- who others look up to as the leader on the field?
As for Vieira -the guy was an active antagonist in the Cole affair-some captain he turned out to be! These guys have one thing in common- they have no real loyalty to Arsenal- we are a convenient stopover to a big club.
If Wenger wants to stay and be successful at Arsenal-he needs to look at the culture and leadership on the pitch and he needs to develop players with a genuine commitment to the club as captains.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:19
Thanks for comments Gerry, good to read them. Its amazing how people forget the antics that Vieira got up to, a great player yes, but as Captain a moral midget. Because he was a great player he got away with twice as much nonsense as Adebayor without any of the booing.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: psymon1982 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:23
My god your a miserable lot
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:32
Arsene Wenegr is the greatest destabilising factor with him going to the 11th hour to sign his contract extension.
Forget about Cesc for the moment as the next great charade is "will he or will he not?" sign the contract extension.
It is dangerous to sue reverse psychology like "how the yougnsters play will motivate me to sign a contract extension".
Or Arsene Wenger the Snake-Oil Salesman said at end of 2008/09 season:
"If I don't win a trophy within 2 years, I can't bring this team further. I don't know what to do."
And where is the truth of Wenegr's past statement:
"My door is always open. I would not retain a player who does not wish to play for Arsenal".
Clearly, with a few months of Barca tapping and even to-date, Cesc refuses to commit to Arsenal by making a public statement, then more destabilisaiton for Arsenal even if Cesc stays for one mroe season.....and everbody knew he wil f**K off to Barca when Arsenal relents or he submits in a transfer request.
CL CUp FInal 2006 is an excellent case in point of Wenger's mismanagement in his desperation to retain key players, even a last minute attempt to convince our Chelsea Rent-Boy to stay.
WTF playing that Chelsea Rent-Boy when he was out for a lengthy period and FLamini was doing a scintillating job as LB? And FLamini deserved then to play in CL CUp FInal.
Again, why play Pires when Reyes was eagerly waiting to play?
ANd the fallout was a large group of disgruntled players....
Kolo, Gilberto or Gallas?
ANd again he made a destatign wrong choice by appointing Gallas as Captain where he is not a leader and not "Arsenal"..like Kolo or Gilberto.
Again to placate an ass.hole of man who is a great player, but never a leader and a destabilising influence on the TEAM when the chips were down.
Next Cesc?
How can he be a captain when he did not demonstrated leadership quality or orb=ganisational skills?
And for the matter, too young as well.
Clearly, it is another blatant attempt to persuade a ley player to stay on at Arsenal.
SImply, there is no integrity in the way Arsene Wenegr manages his key players except resorting to "Captaincy" bribery.
No wonder sicne 2005, Arsneal is so deviod of eladership on the pitch.
Captain Cesc.
I said he should not be Captain as long as his heart and head is still with BArca; and him not making any public statement of honoring his contract to stay with Arsenal till 2015.
No, not 1 year or 2 year, but to commit to stay till end-of-his-contract or move on in 2014 if he refuses to sign a contract extension then.
To retian the Captaincy while not committing to Arsenal is to cheapen Arsenal with a Spanish puta leading Arsenal.
Is that no more honor and integrity at Arsenal with a wantaway player as Captain?
Strip him of hsi captaincy to force him to publicly committed to Arsenal or submit a transfer request.
Then, Arsenal can move forward and plan for the future....
Deja vu again with a repeat of 2006/07 season with a wantaway CHelsea Rent-Boy signing a year extension with provisio he can leave after that.
Clearly Barca is winning this war of atrtrition without Arsenal at least make an attempt to lodge a formal complaint to FA and UEFA over "tapping"..with or without evidence as tinme for us to take the battle to BArca, instead of being sh*tted all over the place....
Forget about Cesc for the moment as the next great charade is "will he or will he not?" sign the contract extension.
It is dangerous to sue reverse psychology like "how the yougnsters play will motivate me to sign a contract extension".
Or Arsene Wenger the Snake-Oil Salesman said at end of 2008/09 season:
"If I don't win a trophy within 2 years, I can't bring this team further. I don't know what to do."
And where is the truth of Wenegr's past statement:
"My door is always open. I would not retain a player who does not wish to play for Arsenal".
Clearly, with a few months of Barca tapping and even to-date, Cesc refuses to commit to Arsenal by making a public statement, then more destabilisaiton for Arsenal even if Cesc stays for one mroe season.....and everbody knew he wil f**K off to Barca when Arsenal relents or he submits in a transfer request.
CL CUp FInal 2006 is an excellent case in point of Wenger's mismanagement in his desperation to retain key players, even a last minute attempt to convince our Chelsea Rent-Boy to stay.
WTF playing that Chelsea Rent-Boy when he was out for a lengthy period and FLamini was doing a scintillating job as LB? And FLamini deserved then to play in CL CUp FInal.
Again, why play Pires when Reyes was eagerly waiting to play?
ANd the fallout was a large group of disgruntled players....
Kolo, Gilberto or Gallas?
ANd again he made a destatign wrong choice by appointing Gallas as Captain where he is not a leader and not "Arsenal"..like Kolo or Gilberto.
Again to placate an ass.hole of man who is a great player, but never a leader and a destabilising influence on the TEAM when the chips were down.
Next Cesc?
How can he be a captain when he did not demonstrated leadership quality or orb=ganisational skills?
And for the matter, too young as well.
Clearly, it is another blatant attempt to persuade a ley player to stay on at Arsenal.
SImply, there is no integrity in the way Arsene Wenegr manages his key players except resorting to "Captaincy" bribery.
No wonder sicne 2005, Arsneal is so deviod of eladership on the pitch.
Captain Cesc.
I said he should not be Captain as long as his heart and head is still with BArca; and him not making any public statement of honoring his contract to stay with Arsenal till 2015.
No, not 1 year or 2 year, but to commit to stay till end-of-his-contract or move on in 2014 if he refuses to sign a contract extension then.
To retian the Captaincy while not committing to Arsenal is to cheapen Arsenal with a Spanish puta leading Arsenal.
Is that no more honor and integrity at Arsenal with a wantaway player as Captain?
Strip him of hsi captaincy to force him to publicly committed to Arsenal or submit a transfer request.
Then, Arsenal can move forward and plan for the future....
Deja vu again with a repeat of 2006/07 season with a wantaway CHelsea Rent-Boy signing a year extension with provisio he can leave after that.
Clearly Barca is winning this war of atrtrition without Arsenal at least make an attempt to lodge a formal complaint to FA and UEFA over "tapping"..with or without evidence as tinme for us to take the battle to BArca, instead of being sh*tted all over the place....
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: psymon1982 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:35
You cannot come out and say that the only difference between Paddy and Addy were one was a good footballer. Paddy never publicly said he wanted to leave Arsenal. It's all media tosh and speculation.
I think Henry was a fabulous leader by example. He always gave 100% and more often than not delivered the goods. Just because he's not a goodold fashioned English bruiser who screams alot (the type you old boy's seem to pine for) doean't mean he didn't lead well. You may point to other factors for him not leading well but in the end it comes down to a difference of opinion.
The main point of all this though is to scupper your claims that Wenger only appoints a captain in order to get him to stay at the club. Are you some sort of deranged mentalist? Do you really think Wenger would think that way? You said yourself that Wenger doesn't really put much importance in the captaincy. Do you think a player who wants to leave would change his mind because Wenger makes him the captain. I'm sorry, thats just complete pants.
I think Henry was a fabulous leader by example. He always gave 100% and more often than not delivered the goods. Just because he's not a goodold fashioned English bruiser who screams alot (the type you old boy's seem to pine for) doean't mean he didn't lead well. You may point to other factors for him not leading well but in the end it comes down to a difference of opinion.
The main point of all this though is to scupper your claims that Wenger only appoints a captain in order to get him to stay at the club. Are you some sort of deranged mentalist? Do you really think Wenger would think that way? You said yourself that Wenger doesn't really put much importance in the captaincy. Do you think a player who wants to leave would change his mind because Wenger makes him the captain. I'm sorry, thats just complete pants.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:41
Paddy didnt flirt with Real, and the tooth fairy really exists
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:47
There should be no captain. Arsenal should be the first team to say 'f*ck this pointless sh*t which only stirs up media campaigns'
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: karteta16 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 13:59
Quote:You cannot come out and say that the only difference between Paddy and Addy were one was a good footballer.
The difference between Paddy and addy seems to be a P.
Anyway, I believe he always gives the captaincy to whoever is more likely to play the most games - best/consistent player who has been at the club the longest or who has the most experience, simple. With the chopping and changing we've been through recently and the amount of young players it has ended up this way, this is the age of mercenary players, I wouldn't blame Wenger if the players have their minds somewhere else, Players should be frightened to take the armband if their heart not in it, but it seems like it's more of a job these days.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:17
Quote:Super Hans
There should be no captain. Arsenal should be the first team to say 'f*ck this pointless sh*t which only stirs up media campaigns'
Let's do a rotational captaincy according to playr no.
Match 1 - Captain Almunia
Match 2 - Captain Sagna
Match 3 - Captain Clichy
Match 4 - Captain Cesc
Match 5 - Captain Vermaelen.
.
.
.
.
. Match 52 - Captain Bendtner
..and the whole cycle repeats itself.
There Wenegr, if you think Captaincy is not important, then rotate Captaincy as you claimed before that "you have leaders all over the pitch.."...snake-oil Wengerese.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:19
Nice article, mirrors my feelings.
Give the armband to Wilshere when he plays.
AFC
RULE!
Give the armband to Wilshere when he plays.
AFC
RULE!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:31
Lewis, I always assume you are some kind of 'parody' character, so I tent to laugh at your comments and not insult you, I will do the same now.
I really think we should not have a captain. Think about all the stories that are blown out of all perportion because of the stupid armband.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
I really think we should not have a captain. Think about all the stories that are blown out of all perportion because of the stupid armband.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:39
Give it to Wilshere give him a go with it. Especially in the CC, it's a rule to have a captain though Super Hans. Give it to a player who won't leave/no one wants i.e Almunia.
AFC
RULE!
AFC
RULE!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:43
It shouldn't be a rule. You should have an appointed 'team greater' to shake hands before a Champions League match ro something, no need for anything more than that.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 14:45
the player in your starting 11 who has made the most apperances for the club should be the greeter?
Could work.
AFC
RULE!
Could work.
AFC
RULE!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 15:04
No captain? Tell that to Bobby Moore, Bryan Robson, Keane, Gerrard, Beckenbaeur, Dunga, Maldini...
Having no captain is the worst idea since the sandpaper thong.
Having no captain is the worst idea since the sandpaper thong.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 15:09
You can get sandpaper thongs!!
hook me up mike!
AFC
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hook me up mike!
AFC
RULE!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 15:52
Quote:Gooner_Mike
No captain? Tell that to Bobby Moore, Bryan Robson, Keane, Gerrard, Beckenbaeur, Dunga, Maldini...
Having no captain is the worst idea since the sandpaper thong.
Why is it a bad idea? It puts unnecessary pressure on a player, it alienates others who want to be captain, or those who are given it who clearly never wanted to be in the first place, every move they make is scrutinised beyond reason, whenever they are linked with another club, or want to leave, the fans turn on them as though they were Judas and they are held up as a moral guardian when they are really just another footballer in a team of other footballers.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Bergmars (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 16:16
We should have leaders all over the pitch.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 16:29
Exactly, naming a captin not only gives us an appointed 'leader' who may or may not really have leadership qualities, but it also dampens the leadership in others.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: celine dion (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 17:28
Er chaps there's another reason why you need a captain and I am sure fans of other clubs will be having a quiet chuckle at the fact we have all forgotten it.
They are supposed to lift a trophy when we eventually win one of the f@cking things.
They are supposed to lift a trophy when we eventually win one of the f@cking things.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 17:36
Again, I hate that part of the armband, as though the captain is really any more important than the guy who scored the winner or whatever. I hate the "Give the armband to him because he might leave if we don't", I hated Spain's "Give it to Iker because Barca have too many players as it is".
If we win a trophy I would want Wenger to lift the thing then pass it to everyone else. That's the way it should be. The manager lifting the @#$%&.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
If we win a trophy I would want Wenger to lift the thing then pass it to everyone else. That's the way it should be. The manager lifting the @#$%&.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2010 17:39
Or the mascot.
AFC
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AFC
RULE!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 18:43
THE WANT AWAY CAPTAIN SYSTEM..... very correct and i very much agree with you...
The problem i see is this "how can we get the kind of player who will be a true captain when we have players brought to the club from the youth system of their home town clubs to nurture and groom and by the time they are ready to fill the boots their home club will come knocking...or the mighty big european clubs will come poaching.... they will all eventually be want aways ......so it's either we accept that captain mold or we get ready made; use & dump them... i can't see how else we can get a player as captain that will be like the tony adams etcs with our youth system....how can we expect a player who is already using the club to mature & gain experience to remain loyal...
Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿♀️
The problem i see is this "how can we get the kind of player who will be a true captain when we have players brought to the club from the youth system of their home town clubs to nurture and groom and by the time they are ready to fill the boots their home club will come knocking...or the mighty big european clubs will come poaching.... they will all eventually be want aways ......so it's either we accept that captain mold or we get ready made; use & dump them... i can't see how else we can get a player as captain that will be like the tony adams etcs with our youth system....how can we expect a player who is already using the club to mature & gain experience to remain loyal...
Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿♀️
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Lewis_198four (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 22:16
Jack Wilshire when Cesc goes, give it to him in the Carling Cup now Or JET Or Eastmond. Wilshere loved it today.
AFC
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Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: weedz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 22:56
Thank you Padre. A well written and thought provoking subject
Tom,Tom, Tom. playing the devils advocate..eh?
It`s either that or what you`re saying is that every captain of every sporting team ever to have played has been a waste of time?
You`ve never been a captain? You`ve never understood leadership? Is that why you dislike it so much. Do you see the arm-band as a authority figure, and therefor something to despise. And who will call for the toss of the coin?
I`ve posted here on this subject many times. I see the captaincy issue at AFC as the single biggest on-field issue for the last 6 seasons.
I firmly believe that if AW had of chosen the correct person for our leadership, we (AFC) would have won silver-ware over the past 6 years.
I`m in agreement with you Padre on the value placed on the captain under AWs watch. Wenger has got more football knowledge in his little toe, than I`ll ever have in a 1000 yrs, but IMO, on the subject of captaincy, he`s inept. It`s the weakest part of his game plan. And therefore we won`t see any chance in his policy.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Tom,Tom, Tom. playing the devils advocate..eh?
It`s either that or what you`re saying is that every captain of every sporting team ever to have played has been a waste of time?
You`ve never been a captain? You`ve never understood leadership? Is that why you dislike it so much. Do you see the arm-band as a authority figure, and therefor something to despise. And who will call for the toss of the coin?
I`ve posted here on this subject many times. I see the captaincy issue at AFC as the single biggest on-field issue for the last 6 seasons.
I firmly believe that if AW had of chosen the correct person for our leadership, we (AFC) would have won silver-ware over the past 6 years.
I`m in agreement with you Padre on the value placed on the captain under AWs watch. Wenger has got more football knowledge in his little toe, than I`ll ever have in a 1000 yrs, but IMO, on the subject of captaincy, he`s inept. It`s the weakest part of his game plan. And therefore we won`t see any chance in his policy.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 23:14
so weedz who should have been Arsenal captain over the last six years
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: weedz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 23:25
Gilly should have replaced PV4, Ed. And after that I would have given the arm-band to Kolo. Both have far more leadership skills than ANY captain of AFC since PV4.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:05:23:27:20 by weedz.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:05:23:27:20 by weedz.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: weedz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 23:30
Cesc isn`t a poor captain. He`s leaning as he goes and is probably the best player to grace our colours since TH14. But I also think TV and Denilson have better leadership skills.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2010 23:38
Denilson and leadership has never been seen together before in the same sentence and might never be seen again
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 00:46
Cesc would have been a great captain, but these antics are not leadership, he is being led. The season has good as started and he will still not confirm his intentions.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Zainy (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 02:11
Personally I believe if someone is on holiday they have absolutely no responsibility to answer to speculation whatsoever. If Cesc comes back and doesnt answer a direct question that is something completely different.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 14:19
Quote:celine dion
Er chaps there's another reason why you need a captain and I am sure fans of other clubs will be having a quiet chuckle at the fact we have all forgotten it.
They are supposed to lift a trophy when we eventually win one of the f@cking things.
No worry on this teeny weeny matter of lifting a trophy.
Arsenal Captain may have to wait for the next decade to perform this ceremony.
more fruitful to get Captain to practise forming Guard-of-Honor clapping the league champion onto the pitch.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Bring back stepanovs! (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 14:40
Quote:weedz
Cesc isn`t a poor captain. He`s leaning as he goes and is probably the best player to grace our colours since TH14. But I also think TV and Denilson have better leadership skills.
if denilson was made captain of arsenal i would chop my left leg off and support spurs
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Rockstaar (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 14:40
lol a team with no captain..some people have obviously never played sports
all chiefs..no indians..brilliant
agree with weedz..wenger is horrible at picking them..although fabregas would ave made a great captain..if only he wanted to play for the team that made him
all chiefs..no indians..brilliant
agree with weedz..wenger is horrible at picking them..although fabregas would ave made a great captain..if only he wanted to play for the team that made him
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 15:08
weedz posts only go to prove my point. The fact that you can have 'bad captains' makes the whole idea stupid.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Rockstaar (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 15:16
Quote:weedz posts only go to prove my point. The fact that you can have 'bad captains' makes the whole idea stupid.
it doesn't make the whole idea stupid...running around with no General's or everyone thinking that they are a General.. probably has been proven throughout history to not be the wisest path to take
you can have bad captains..just like you have bad managers etc..doesn't mean the idea is stupid..you need leaders on the pitch
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 18:27
You need leaders (whatever way they 'lead' individually) but there is absolutely no need for a captain.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Rockstaar (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 18:43
tom..its clear you don't actually play sports...team sports are approached the same way battles are..you need a field general (captain) although he takes orders from the commander in chief (manager)
He's there to make sure every one follows the common order and does their job, on the field..so you may have Sergeants, Lieutenants even a Lieutenant General..but they are all under the command of the General
if you ever just played a pick up match with your friends..you notice everyone pretty much does what they want..which is fine for you saturday morning kick around..but if they were to play an organised team of the same skill level..they would get crushed
the captain brings order to the team on the pitch
He's there to make sure every one follows the common order and does their job, on the field..so you may have Sergeants, Lieutenants even a Lieutenant General..but they are all under the command of the General
if you ever just played a pick up match with your friends..you notice everyone pretty much does what they want..which is fine for you saturday morning kick around..but if they were to play an organised team of the same skill level..they would get crushed
the captain brings order to the team on the pitch
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2010 20:32
No he doesn't Rockstaar. John Terry does not ask Drogba to play up front, or say "Hey, lets not all run round in circles chasing the ball" he just defends and does his job. If he wants to have a go at a player he will do so, and should do, but its fair to say without the armband he should still be able to shout and ball.
Football is not like a 'battle' it is still very much a game/sport where 11 men try and outdo 11 other men, the tactics come from the manager and the players do their best.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Football is not like a 'battle' it is still very much a game/sport where 11 men try and outdo 11 other men, the tactics come from the manager and the players do their best.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: SandyB (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 05:34
Good post Padre..brought up some good points, I just posted something about the 'history of a club' and what it means on another thread and pointed out to many Arsenal fans the history has been confined to some individuals..and I must say you have said it all and people like you understands what history means in the context of club, country, culture or any aspect of life.
Tom, the point here Padre brought although carries the word captain in the heading but far more than anything to do with wheather a captain is required on the pitch or not, it's about commitment, belief and most important to understand that nothing is eternal and no one is indispensable..
Tom, the point here Padre brought although carries the word captain in the heading but far more than anything to do with wheather a captain is required on the pitch or not, it's about commitment, belief and most important to understand that nothing is eternal and no one is indispensable..
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Rockstaar (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 05:48
Quote:Football is not like a 'battle' it is still very much a game/sport where 11 men try and outdo 11 other men, the tactics come from the manager and the players do their best.
yup..nothing like a battle thomas..just has tactics, strategy, offense, defense, leaders, orders etc and the point is to beat your opponent
you absolutely need to get out more and actually participate in the game...then maybe you would understand
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 13:05
Why is it so hard for you to have a debate Rockstaar?
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 14:06
Quote:RockstaarQuote:Football is not like a 'battle' it is still very much a game/sport where 11 men try and outdo 11 other men, the tactics come from the manager and the players do their best.
yup..nothing like a battle thomas..just has tactics, strategy, offense, defense, leaders, orders etc and the point is to beat your opponent
you absolutely need to get out more and actually participate in the game...then maybe you would understand
Keyboard warriors rarely venture out of there rooms, never mind never mind going out the house to participate in any type of team related sports!
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 15:22
I personally think im possibly the most outgoing, charming, sexy, lovable person on this forum.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 19:59
Also the most modest
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2010 22:20
Tru dat. Im also the blackest white guy in Bolton.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/08/2011 03:38
Re: Dodgy Captains - Is There Any Integrity Left?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 August, 2010 13:32
Arsene Wenegr is the greatest destabilising factor with him going to the 11th hour to sign his contract extension.
Forget about Cesc for the moment as the next great charade is "will he or will he not?" sign the contract extension.
It is dangerous to use reverse psychology like "how the yougnsters play will motivate me to sign a contract extension".
Or Arsene Wenger the Snake-Oil Salesman said at end of 2008/09 season:
"If I don't win a trophy within 2 years, I can't bring this team further. I don't know what to do."
And where is the truth of Wenegr's past statement:
"My door is always open. I would not retain a player who does not wish to play for Arsenal".
.....................................................
Look at the above statement uttered by Arsene Wenger after the end of 2008/09 season.
Is he a man of integrity then...after he signed that 3-year contract extension instead of leaving when his "2 years are up for not winning a trophy as he had "promised" in 2008/09 season"?
Clearly, his "youngsters" did not want to play for him no more - namely, Clichy, Fabregas and Nasri.
Let's wait for September 1, 2011 before we "tarred & feathered' him and "ran" him out of a town on a rail.
I can only hope he cna put a rabbit out of his hat this time..instead of a turkey dead as a dodo.
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 04 August, 2010 13:32
Arsene Wenegr is the greatest destabilising factor with him going to the 11th hour to sign his contract extension.
Forget about Cesc for the moment as the next great charade is "will he or will he not?" sign the contract extension.
It is dangerous to use reverse psychology like "how the yougnsters play will motivate me to sign a contract extension".
Or Arsene Wenger the Snake-Oil Salesman said at end of 2008/09 season:
"If I don't win a trophy within 2 years, I can't bring this team further. I don't know what to do."
And where is the truth of Wenegr's past statement:
"My door is always open. I would not retain a player who does not wish to play for Arsenal".
.....................................................
Look at the above statement uttered by Arsene Wenger after the end of 2008/09 season.
Is he a man of integrity then...after he signed that 3-year contract extension instead of leaving when his "2 years are up for not winning a trophy as he had "promised" in 2008/09 season"?
Clearly, his "youngsters" did not want to play for him no more - namely, Clichy, Fabregas and Nasri.
Let's wait for September 1, 2011 before we "tarred & feathered' him and "ran" him out of a town on a rail.
I can only hope he cna put a rabbit out of his hat this time..instead of a turkey dead as a dodo.
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