Has Cech deal collapsed

Rumours are coming out of club that Cech deal has collapsed as Wenger refuses to agree transfer fee.Dick Law going mad.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:26:18:11:06 by Padre Pio.

linky

SSN and Guardian say fee still not agreed

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Not easy to agree fees when Wenger n Mourinho are two ends of the things but it'll finally workout the window is long.

One rumour was that Chelsea wanted The Ox as part of any deal which we refused.

Quote:

plonky
One rumour was that Chelsea wanted The Ox as part of any deal which we refused.

That's very long ago not a news anymore but their actual target is Walcott they are waiting to see how the contract negotiations go with Arsenal. Theo has only one year left in contract n Arsenal can't drag the negotiation beyond this transfer window without substantially declining his transfer value, they know that. That's why either Wenger has to pay over the top for Cech's deal to quickly complete otherwise it will drag till the last day of the window.
That's the reason you are hearing so much of praise n buzz from bridge camp about how good Cech is n how big a legend he's bla bla bla.

Padre

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:23:11:21:35 by SportNetwork HQ.

Somehow, Mourinho will always look to stick his thumb into wenger's eyeball.

Where do you rate this rumour on a scale of kebab shop understands to on arsenal.com?

I rate it very highly, the deal is not done

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Quote:

Padre Pio
I rate it very highly, the deal is not done

It'll be eventually done, now the noises coming out of bridge that Cech is so good that Wenger might play with one less defender that saves a lot of money so they want a bit more for the deal.
Wenger says fkk off.

Why would Mourinho sells Cech now to strengthen Arsenal Defence to no ends?

If I am the manager, I will sell Cech only on 31-Aug-2015 to derail Arsenal pre-season training as well as to force them to keep Ospina to unsettle the squad.

Imagine, on August 31, we will have Cech, Ospina and Szczesny with Ospina making way in September without any understanding between Back-4 and Cech.

And we play Chelski in September 2015?

Certainly, Mourinho will not want to waste this golden opportunity to wind up Wenger and put one over him in his perpetual mind-game with his rivals, in particularly a Wenger that is so easily wound up by all his cleverly placed barbs.

More to come with Mourinho winning the mind-game and should be successful in derailing our pre-season preparation.

Quote:

Merlion96
Why would Mourinho sells Cech now to strengthen Arsenal Defence to no ends?
If I am the manager, I will sell Cech only on 31-Aug-2015 to derail Arsenal pre-season training as well as to force them to keep Ospina to unsettle the squad.

Imagine, on August 31, we will have Cech, Ospina and Szczesny with Ospina making way in September without any understanding between Back-4 and Cech.

And we play Chelski in September 2015?

Certainly, Mourinho will not want to waste this golden opportunity to wind up Wenger and put one over him in his perpetual mind-game with his rivals, in particularly a Wenger that is so easily wound up by all his cleverly placed barbs.

More to come with Mourinho winning the mind-game and should be successful in derailing our pre-season preparation.

Exactly right.
wenger has proven to be the perfect foil to Mourinho's jabs and strategems.

It's a cat and mouse game ... and Jose the Cat ALWAYS wins and wenger eats stinky cheese.

perhaps the story is not clear, its Wenger who wrecked the deal, the usual i must save tenpence number

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Who says the deal is wrecked? Reports say that the deal will be done by the weekend so maybe we should wait until there's official confirmation that the deal is done/dead.

Poor Dick Law.

If this story is true, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to go out and cut deals based upon the best interests of the Club, supposedly with the mandate and full knowledge of He Who Controls ALL Aspects of AFC Business, and only after a proposed deal has been reached, does Wenger Almighty re-evaluate the player and the price and then decide to squeeze a few more pence out of the transaction.

It is either inflexible or fickle on his part, but, coming at the end of negotiations, wenger's antics can sure come off as insulting to everyone else involved in the proposed transfer. It has often proved deadly to the completion of a near transaction. wenger has been his own worst enemy in the past.

We are all hoping that it is not happening again.

He really did do better last summer in the deals that he decided to make.
He really did do poorly in failing to fill our two critical needs - DM and 3rd CB. Sure, he saved money by not pulling the trigger, but he was proven negligent by not getting those two spots filled ... and it cost us dearly on the pitch in the first half of the season - it cost us a lot more than money.

We are all hoping that it is not happening again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:23:17:05:32 by tigerline.

The last sentence I read is the one I believe.

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

@tigerline,

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes... you want to believe that Wenger has wrecked this deal even if you don't have a shred of evidence to prove this. Please stop with your Wenger bashing at every turn. Only because when he does mess up, because all you ever do is bash him, your insight will just be ignored as your usual Wenger bashing.

This deal most likely will go through. He's not going to sack our goal keeping coach and then not get the goalkeeper and the goalkeeping coach he is making room for? I am more interested in who he will get to go upfront. I think that will be the most important signing of this window.

Then again it could just be Padre shitstirring. Although Wenger does have previous on goalie transfers. Remember when he refused to spend an extra £1.50 to clinch the deal for Mark Schwarzer. This could be deja vu all over again.

Oh lord, remember the bad old days when we signed and were linked with absolute g@sh players?

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

IF THIS STORY IS TRUE ... is a qualifier on what follows in my post.

If this story that Padre posted is NOT true, then we can (most of us, anyway) rejoice in a good bit of business being completed for the Club. You will note that I have always given wenger credit when he does do well when adding or deleting from the team sheet. Also, I almost always give him the benefit of the doubt as to the new players, too - you rarely see me criticizing a new addition, although I will admit to being taken aback a bit by the Kallstrom and Park signings. My problems are with the deals NOT made - the serial dithering, the penny-pinching, the stubbornness, that always seems to leave us short at the end of the window.

Is it happening again with this Cech business?
God, I hope not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:23:17:32:24 by tigerline.

£1.50 in total would have been £1.50 too much for one of the Premier League's all-time worst goalkeepers in Mark Schwarzer!

He wasn't that bad really. Better than most (all?) of our keepers since Jens.

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

Not surprised if Wenger screwed up the deal. He's good at that.

Quote:

abspua69
@tigerline,
You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes... you want to believe that Wenger has wrecked this deal even if you don't have a shred of evidence to prove this. Please stop with your Wenger bashing at every turn. Only because when he does mess up, because all you ever do is bash him, your insight will just be ignored as your usual Wenger bashing.

This deal most likely will go through. He's not going to sack our goal keeping coach and then not get the goalkeeper and the goalkeeping coach he is making room for? I am more interested in who he will get to go upfront. I think that will be the most important signing of this window.

I am not $hit stirring this story is doing the rounds that Law had it tied up but Wenger objected to fee. It doesnt mean it cant be put on track again, but remember all the press was claiming it was a done deal.
I cannot give away my source, and I dont do these kind of stories very often, so its no joke or a wind up. I want us to sign cech so its not Wenger bashing.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Quote:

Padre Pio
I am not $hit stirring this story is doing the rounds that Law had it tied up but Wenger objected to fee. It doesnt mean it cant be put on track again, but remember all the press was claiming it was a done deal.
I cannot give away my source, and I dont do these kind of stories very often, so its no joke or a wind up. I want us to sign cech so its not Wenger bashing.

Who runs an organisation like this?
Why send out conflicting messages from the Club to the other side AND to the public?
Seriously.
Who???

[www.feintzebra.co.uk]

Some of the responses in this thread are hilarious

I think Law's side sent it out to move things along

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Quote:

Padre Pio
I think Law's side sent it out to move things along

I think that Ospina did it to do the opposite.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Rumours are coming out of club that Cech deal has collapsed as Wenger refuses to agree transfer fee.Dick Law going mad.

What transfer fee. £10m? £20m? £10m plus The Ox? David Dein would have had this all sorted out without worrying the boss. Why is Dick Law so incompetent? we get this every summer and in the end Wenger has to step in and phone the player to convince them to join. Our negotiating team is a joke. It's Gazidis department and he needs to get a grip. It's bad enough he can't match the sponsorship deals ManU, ManC and Chelsea negotiate. Now it seems he can't recruit a player who is gagging to stay in London and play for us and the owner of the selling club is only too willing to make it happen. Wenger must be furious.

Don't blame Law, he agreed fee, Wenger overruled it

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Padre this rumour was created by an idiotic WOB who preys on the vulnerabilities of the dormant WOB's who have had. Itching to moan about for two years

its done, at practically 11 million.

Padre going on about it as though it's not pretty obvious (and actually confirmed) that he's signing for us.

Give it a break for a bit mate.

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

Quote:

abspua69
its done, at practically 11 million.

Great!
A nice piece of business by Wenger.

Kudos to Abramovic for treating Cech honourably.

TVNZ are reporting here that the deal is done for 10.9m, but nothing up on Arsenal.com.

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

Quote:

Gööfle11
Padre going on about it as though it's not pretty obvious (and actually confirmed) that he's signing for us.
Give it a break for a bit mate.

SSN say it will be confirmed later at 10.9 million. Not actually confirmed yet.
It might come as a surprise to you Tom but I do report news on here sometimes, just because you dont like the news dont shoot the messenger

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

report good news then

seems like your croanies only give you negative rhetoric

"dick law is going mad"

That's the diff between you and me Jack, I think signing Cech is good news, you don't

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Arsenal have finally agreed a fee with Chelsea to complete the signing of Petr Cech, according to reports.

Blues goalkeeper Cech is already believed to have sorted out personal terms to join the Gunners.

Only a fee was left to be sorted out, with Chelsea said to want as much as £14million for the 33-year-old, while other talk has been about including Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain in the deal.

However, Arsenal are getting a huge bargain with Sky Sports saying the fee will be just £10.9m.



Not bad.


Read more: [metro.co.uk]


Look like Arsene Wenger is bargaining with Chelski over £14million and refused to pay over the odds.

People, it is called "negotiation" and you never pay them the first figure mentioned.
As long as both parties are "willing seller willing buyer" it is just a matter of agreeing on the figure, nothing more nothing less.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Rumours are coming out of club that Cech deal has collapsed as Wenger refuses to agree transfer fee.Dick Law going mad.

It's probably Stuart Robson, putting his 5 cents worth in

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

This thread was the only suggestion I've seen of the deal collapsing. Apart from this one arsenal guy on Twitter who's always posting spoof arsenal stories, photoshopped to look as though they're from the mail, saying that the deal collapsed because Chelsea wanted 11m and Wenger wouldn't go above 10.9. Are we sure it all hasn't stemmed from this?

There is no doubt there was haggling over the fee and no doubt both sides made ultimatums. It's a good buy but from wenger's point of view the fee is still high after all the guy is 33 and wenger got Lehman for 1.5 mill. It's the third highest fee ever for a playe over 30 in prem and second highest fee for a keeper. I suspect Law was happy at 12million but Wenger drove it down.
If Cech proves to be a great keeper he will be worth every penny plus.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Padre, the cynic in me would think you want this deal to collapse so you can hurl your usual diatribes towards Wenger and blame him for everything that's wrong with Arsenal as you usually do. How do you know Wenger objected to the transfer fee? Are you privy to the negotiations? Who's this mysterious source? After all, according to you at the start of this thread these are only rumors.

Now Padre is on line of fire while Wenger survived another storm
This is the where I love the English media they can make people belive everything what they sprout. All over the media they are saying Petr Cech 10.9m OMG! Some even saying stuff like deal of the century etc, in reality the guy only started 6 odd games last season n if my memory still good he did several fuk up the season before which actually prompted Mourinho to bring the Belgian guy.
To be honest it's a big money move n risk written all over it. Cech better perform otherwise this could turn into embarrassment.
Those who think I'm talking shtt remember I said the same thing about 16m Calumet Chambers deal even before he kicked a ball for Arsenal that it was a dodgy deal for a reserve quality player today the 16m right back can't even get a starting birth ahead of another Arsenal RB Jenkinson in U21 Euro!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:24:14:11:55 by SandyB.

Quote:

SandyB
Now Padre is on line of fire while Wenger survived another storm This is the where I love the English media they can make people belive everything what they sprout. All over the media they are saying Petr Cech 10.9m OMG! Some even saying stuff like deal of the century etc, in reality the guy only started 6 odd games last season n if my memory still good he did several fuk up the season before which actually prompted Mourinho to bring the Belgian guy.
To be honest it's a big money move n risk written all over it. Cech better perform otherwise this could turn into embarrassment.
Those who think I'm talking shtt remember I said the same thing about 16m Calumet Chambers deal even before he kicked a ball for Arsenal that it was a dodgy deal for a reserve quality player today the 16m right back can't even get a starting birth ahead of another Arsenal RB Jenkinson!

Hey now - cut wenger a bit of slack.
Remember that wenger thought that he was bringing in Chambers as a DM.
It was only through injuries that CC ended up playing RB and CB instead.

But, yes, you were right.
Chambers is clearly no more than a reserve player at this point, albeit a rather expensive one.

Quote:

Padre Pio
There is no doubt there was haggling over the fee and no doubt both sides made ultimatums. It's a good buy but from wenger's point of view the fee is still high after all the guy is 33 and wenger got Lehman for 1.5 mill. It's the third highest fee ever for a playe over 30 in prem and second highest fee for a keeper. I suspect Law was happy at 12million but Wenger drove it down.
If Cech proves to be a great keeper he will be worth every penny plus.

If this is true, shouldn't the finance people be the one to determine if Arsenal can afford to pay the asking price, and if not, do the research on the market price for a given player and then get involved in the price negotiation. Wenger should be focused on getting the right player for the need of his team.

Callum Chambers seems to be in no mans land at the moment his career needs reigniting

Chambers?

Can you see him displacing Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gabriel, Debuchy and Bellerin in 2015/16?

The only spot left for him is like what Wenger said before; he is more of a DCM and per-season training will prove Wenger is right about him.

Chambers will be a fantastic CB. He's still VERY young.

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

I think that Chambers is well-placed as our 4th CB.

He lacks the pace to play well at DCM or RB, but he has enough size, poise, and toughness to learn his role at CB. He is the reason that I am not clamoring for getting another back-up CB this year, even though I think that we will need those back-ups a fair bit this season.

Thanks to wenger for getting Gabriel in here ... Finally!

Quote:

tigerline
Thanks to wenger for getting Gabriel in here ... Finally!

Maybe he couldn't get a work permit until he had proved he was an exceptional talent at Villareal. Maybe January 2015 was the earliest Wenger could have signed and played him straight away. Its a remote possibility but maybe wenger knows what he's doing.

Quote:

plonky

Quote:

tigerline
Thanks to wenger for getting Gabriel in here ... Finally!

Maybe he couldn't get a work permit until he had proved he was an exceptional talent at Villareal. Maybe January 2015 was the earliest Wenger could have signed and played him straight away. Its a remote possibility but maybe wenger knows what he's doing.

Maybe ...

Maybe it is a remote possibility that wenger knew all along that Monreal, Chambers, and Debuchy were all Premier League quality centre-backs ... despite NONE of them having EVER played that position before. Who needs proven depth when we have the intuitive skills of a meticulous planner like wenger?

He does get to watch them in training you know. Maybe they were better options than the CB's who were available for transfer and were prepared to be back-ups. Maybe he should have splashed out £50m for Dave (1-7) Luiz.

Okay guys

The reason why Chambers cost so much is because of the Home grown rule that will come into effect next year. Meaning all english players from next season onwards will cost an arm and a leg to clubs.

e.g Firmino being valued way less than Sterling, even though he's similar to Sterling in ability if not better.

e.g. Wilshere being valued at 40 million even though he can't get into the Arsenal team at the moment.

This is how it will be from now on. Getting Chambers who could be the next John terry in 4 years, now, at 16 million could still well prove to be an excellent piece of business, so please why don't you wait and see before you judge his value.

Quote:

abspua69
Okay guys
The reason why Chambers cost so much is because of the Home grown rule that will come into effect next year. Meaning all english players from next season onwards will cost an arm and a leg to clubs.

e.g Firmino being valued way less than Sterling, even though he's similar to Sterling in ability if not better.

e.g. Wilshere being valued at 40 million even though he can't get into the Arsenal team at the moment.

This is how it will be from now on. Getting Chambers who could be the next John terry in 4 years, now, at 16 million could still well prove to be an excellent piece of business, so please why don't you wait and see before you judge his value.

Read my earlier post for content, please.
I am glad that Chambers is here and I have great hopes for his future here at CB.

"I think that Chambers is well-placed as our 4th CB.

He lacks the pace to play well at DCM or RB, but he has enough size, poise, and toughness to learn his role at CB. He is the reason that I am not clamoring for getting another back-up CB this year, even though I think that we will need those back-ups a fair bit this season."

Good point on the homegrown rule adding to his worth.
My problems LAST YEAR were that we were forced to stretch him too thin and rely upon him too soon. It was not HIS fault.

Wenger's foresight has put us ahead of the curve with the homegrown rule. Locking up Wilshere, Walcott, Gibbs, Chambers and Ox has been good business, plus they are all very talented players with a high upside that is not yet in sight. ManCs are scrambling now to catch up on that front, as are others.

SUPREME BEING: "I should do something very extroverted and vengeful to you. Honestly, I'm too tired. So, I think I'll transfer you to the undergrowth department, brackens, more shrubs, that sort of thing... with a 19% cut in salary, backdated to the beginning of time."

Quote:

YANKONTHIS
Wenger's foresight has put us ahead of the curve with the homegrown rule. Locking up Wilshere, Walcott, Gibbs, Chambers and Ox has been good business, plus they are all very talented players with a high upside that is not yet in sight. ManCs are scrambling now to catch up on that front, as are others.

Excellent point, but don't forget to add that wenger has also lined up Ramsey, Welbeck, Jenkinson, and Akpom.

I believe that we still need to up our percentage of homegrown but I am not sure of the particulars.

Does anybody know what we still need to add to be in homegrown compliance?

lol, people have thousands of dreams, speculations n reasons to justify something unjustifiable! Chambers is going to be the next John Terry, Per Mertesacker or Franz Beckenbauer in 4 years time! The reality is he doesn't get into fkking u21 euro lineup!
Liverpool paid 29m for Firmino n if he does a Chambers after a year he'd have no place to hide. That's the difference.
By the way, just saw England got knocked out from U21 Euro by Italy 3-1 again at the group stage, the super striker Harry Kane touched the ball less than 10 times in first two games! Lol! This is what happens when you constantly patronize substandard players as some sort of football God!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:25:02:55:25 by SandyB.

thats a bit rich, coming from someone who patronises Brazilian footy, Sandy.

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

Quote:

weedz
thats a bit rich, coming from someone who patronises Brazilian footy, Sandy.

lol we agree we aren't that good at the moment but well...we understand where we stand n also where we wanna be! There is a difference!

Brazil are a lot like England in a way. There's a deluded sense of entitlement there when it comes to major honours in my opinion. I think it's odd the way the perception of Brazil is far more prestigious than, say, Germany and Italy, yet there's only one World Cup win in the difference.

There isn't much expectation surrounding England at major competitions anymore, because the penny seems to have dropped that they're absolutely sh*t, but prior to Hodgson taking over there was genuine belief among the masses that they could be a formidable force again - for the first time since the 60s. But they're not good enough. And neither are Brazil anymore.

Quote:

Shane
Brazil are a lot like England in a way. There's a deluded sense of entitlement there when it comes to major honours in my opinion. I think it's odd the way the perception of Brazil is far more prestigious than, say, Germany and Italy, yet there's only one World Cup win in the difference.
There isn't much expectation surrounding England at major competitions anymore, because the penny seems to have dropped that they're absolutely sh*t, but prior to Hodgson taking over there was genuine belief among the masses that they could be a formidable force again - for the first time since the 60s. But they're not good enough. And neither are Brazil anymore.

With David Luiz as their captain, what could go wrong?

[www.greatestsportingmoments.com]

Guess the subject heading " Cech deal collapsed" isnt a good one. Deal yet to collapsed. Its all now on the right transfer fee. I think AW would not want to pay so much for a 33 year old keeper with injury record.

Iker Casillas reportedly believes that Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho prevented him from having the opportunity to join Arsenal.

The Spaniard is understood to have held talks with Arsenal over a potential move this summer as he edges closer to a Real Madrid exit.

But according to Spanish television station El Chiringuito, Casillas’ camp believe that his former manager Mourinho may have sabotaged any chance he had of joining Arsenal.

Arsenal are closing in on a deal for Chelsea keeper Petr Cech regardless – unless Jose can do anything to prevent that transfer as well…


Read more: [metro.co.uk]

Good news that Mourinho allowed Cech to join us simply to stop Casilla joining us?

Quote:

Shane
Brazil are a lot like England in a way. There's a deluded sense of entitlement there when it comes to major honours in my opinion. I think it's odd the way the perception of Brazil is far more prestigious than, say, Germany and Italy, yet there's only one World Cup win in the difference.
There isn't much expectation surrounding England at major competitions anymore, because the penny seems to have dropped that they're absolutely sh*t, but prior to Hodgson taking over there was genuine belief among the masses that they could be a formidable force again - for the first time since the 60s. But they're not good enough. And neither are Brazil anymore.

Not really correct statement shano, as I said we are practically rock bottom at the moment but still you just count the numbers of world cup to measure the international performance as if you count the numbers of copa America, confederation cup at international level or Libertadores or sudamericana at the club level our performance is still ahead of Germans or Italians in terms of consistency.
We produce lot more football players playing globally even compared to whole Europe not just Germany or Italy. When you measure football standard and contribution you need to consider these things too.

Quote:

SandyB
We produce lot more football players playing globally even compared to whole Europe not just Germany or Italy. When you measure football standard and contribution you need to consider these things too.

Quite right Sandy. As I always say about Arsene Wenger it's not just about the trophies he has won that make him a top manager. It'a also the players he has developed who have gone on to win stuff all around Europe that needs to be considered when judging the mans greatness. I'm sure you agree.

Quote:

plonky

Quote:

SandyB
We produce lot more football players playing globally even compared to whole Europe not just Germany or Italy. When you measure football standard and contribution you need to consider these things too.

Quite right Sandy. As I always say about Arsene Wenger it's not just about the trophies he has won that make him a top manager. It'a also the players he has developed who have gone on to win stuff all around Europe that needs to be considered when judging the mans greatness. I'm sure you agree.

lol, disagree n vigorously disagree. He's almost 20 years at a club neither he won sufficient trophies nor he produced sufficent top class players to justify that. Actually he produced very few world class players clubs like Sporting Lisbon or Boca Juniors did far better than him. He's neither here nor there.

You've accidentally proven yourself wrong. Would you last 20 years in your job if you weren't brilliant at it? I wouldn't in my job. I'd argue that nobody could possibly spend that length of time in the same company unless they were doing something right. Why is football management any different? It's not.

As far as producing world-class players goes - he's a man, not a youth academy. He can't produce world-class talent any more than I can produce milk from my nipples. What he can do, however, is take a gem and make it shine brighter than an overwhelming amount of his contemporaries could do with the same mineral.

This facet of his management either helps Arsenal win trophies or it helps Arsenal get filthy f*cking rich - and in some cases we had the best of both worlds. Either way, Arsenal, the club, benefits from Wenger's work - and we have been since 1996.

I don't care if you're a football manager or a binman - the fact of the matter is that you're not going to last at the same company for 20 years unless you're a major asset and, unfortunately for you, the amount of time he's been here is indicative of his on and off-the-field success. There's no way around it.

Well shano, you know I know that Arsene is a cult albeit in much smaller scale compared to what you described few posts above like Brasil football is somewhat the product of culthood in football world.
So yes, when we talk about rise n fall of Arsenal football club, youth academy producing quality footballer winning trophies everything goes to Arsene, things might have changed a bit in past couple of seasons but still Arsene's shadow on the club is beyond just a manager. So he's solely responsible.
Agreed he made truckload of money for the club or even for himself that's ok but not always remaining at the club for 20 years justify it's on his own merit. He managed to convince everybody that what he's doing is at the most the best no one can do any better so there he is. That's the beauty of culthood sometimes it goes beyond reasoning.

The man's a genius, what other manager has gone 11 years without winning their league and getting more and more pay whilst their academy produced 3 payers in 20 years and not been sacked.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Sandy made a very good point when defending Brazils record that success and contribution to football is not just about winning stuff. It's also about developing world class talent which wenger has done consistently for 20 years. I know Sandy is too shy to say it but I'm sure he believes Wengers CV should also include the trophies his proteges such as RVP, Fabregas, Anelka and Nasri have won elsewhere.

Quote:

plonky
Sandy made a very good point when defending Brazils record that success and contribution to football is not just about winning stuff. It's also about developing world class talent which wenger has done consistently for 20 years. I know Sandy is too shy to say it but I'm sure he believes Wengers CV should also include the trophies his proteges such as RVP, Fabregas, Anelka and Nasri have won elsewhere.

Well to be very very honest Wenger is still very good manager n international managers of current time like Loew or Dunga always brag about talking to Wenger in things like formation, player progress etc these are documented facts. Even his contribution to English football in terms of changes in football phylosophy, introducing modern style of play etc.
I can't deny any of them but the point is if any Brasil fan knows that there is a decline in the quality and progress of Brasil football then without considering the DeTimes culthood people should know that Wenger didn't do any exceptional job almost a decade. If anyone could have done better? I don't know as no one got any chance.

* You see the names you put Henry, RVP, Fabregas, Alelka, PV4, Pires etc are actually mostly decades ago. You can't acually put Ozil, Sanchez etc in Wenger's CV even as a slightest successful mentor, they came as finished product.
Just like if you talk about Brasil football the greats you can name as Ronado, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka etc are all past the decades so you can evidently notice the decline.

Sandy, the cult of AKB worshipers is still going strong.

And their capacity for accepting his failings and forgiving them is astonishing.

Any truly ambitious club - any truly ambitious fanbase - would not have put up with wenger's nonsense and negligence for this long.

We could probably unsticky this post.

No idea why it was stickied in the first place.

Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.

78 posts so far say it was the right decision. Even though the thought of Wenger interfering in the negotitaions for the sake of £100k (1% of the transfer fee) is laughable.

Quote:

tigerline
Sandy, the cult of AKB worshipers is still going strong.
And their capacity for accepting his failings and forgiving them is astonishing.

Any truly ambitious club - any truly ambitious fanbase - would not have put up with wenger's nonsense and negligence for this long.

What were two of the main criticisms directed at Wenger in recent years? I'd say refusing to spend big and failing to win trophies. He has spent £130m since September 2013 and won two trophies in the same period. But you're going to tell me he hasn't bought himself another crack at winning the Premier League, aren't you?

Do you know what's really astonishing? How the goal posts are moved when the alternative is giving Wenger a bit of credit. Turns out the FA Cup isn't even considered a major competition anymore - but only since we've started winning it coincidentally.

great post Shane

Quote:

abspua69
great post Shane

Don't big him up. He said the England team were absolute sh'it. There was no need to say absolute. We English have feelings too you know.

And we Irish had crops, before Cromwell ordered his men to p*ss on them, which as we know caused the famine.

Quote:

Shane

Quote:

tigerline
Sandy, the cult of AKB worshipers is still going strong.
And their capacity for accepting his failings and forgiving them is astonishing.

Any truly ambitious club - any truly ambitious fanbase - would not have put up with wenger's nonsense and negligence for this long.

What were two of the main criticisms directed at Wenger in recent years? I'd say refusing to spend big and failing to win trophies. He has spent £130m since September 2013 and won two trophies in the same period. But you're going to tell me he hasn't bought himself another crack at winning the Premier League, aren't you?

Do you know what's really astonishing? How the goal posts are moved when the alternative is giving Wenger a bit of credit. Turns out the FA Cup isn't even considered a major competition anymore - but only since we've started winning it coincidentally.

Those were not and are not my main criticisms of wenger.

I have refuted those claims that wenger did not spend money through the years because it was plainly evident that he DID spend an awful lot of money on wages for underperforming players (i.e., Dead Wood). wenger was wasteful for many, many years in this regard. Often, we were unable to move useless players because of their high wages.

I have celebrated our return to FA Cup glory as much as anyone. NEVER have I denigrated that accomplishment.

wenger has done a lot of great things here. That is undeniable and it probably accounts for why so many support him so ardently and are reluctant to admit to any fault of his.

Going further in praise of wenger, I have always tried to give wenger credit where credit was due. The Ozil signing was a fabulous move - the club and its fans needed that declaration of intent.

Last summer, I commended wenger for his early work in the window in getting Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina, and even Chambers. wenger almost assembled a great team last year.

With Chelsea and ManU undergoing squad upheaval that goes along with managerial change, with Suarez gone, and with City in post-championship malaise, Arsenal was in a prime position to compete for the League title last year. BUT, wenger stopped short ... Again. We still needed a DM, two backup CB, and a back-up striker, but wenger FAILED to address those needs. And Arsenal was out of the race six weeks into the season when our weaknesses were exposed. And it is a pattern with wenger.

wenger's failure to complete his squad and manage his team sheet completely and timely is what frustrates me. Of course, wenger has attributes. But, he has always prioritised HIS non-football philosophies like economic value, emotional stability, and belief over ruthless, imperative competition in every minute of every match. Winning the League is not THE priority. Remaining honourable to his principles is more important to him. That certainly is a noble and admirable trait in most cases, but, when it leaves us an incomplete side, the line must be drawn.

wenger is his own worst enemy.
His managerial decisions and his personnel management can be good, but are invariably marred by self-inflicted wounds.

he has cost us too many times in too many seasons for me to keep faith in him anymore.

Bwaaaahahahaaa.
How did I miss this gem of a thread?!
Padre, padre, padre.....
You were just trying to draw me out of hibernation, weren't you?!

Reverse psychology.

It worked isn't it?

Quote:

Merlion96
Reverse psychology.
It worked isn't it?

I'm going to chalk it up as coincidence. But, in effect, yes. It worked!

"When Arsene Wenger spoke to me about his ambitions for this club, and how he saw me as part of this team, the decision was clear.'

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Quote:

plonky

Quote:

Padre Pio
Rumours are coming out of club that Cech deal has collapsed as Wenger refuses to agree transfer fee.Dick Law going mad.

Why is Dick Law so incompetent? we get this every summer and in the end Wenger has to step in and phone the player to convince them to join. Our negotiating team is a joke.

Quote:

plonky
"When Arsene Wenger spoke to me about his ambitions for this club, and how he saw me as part of this team, the decision was clear.'

People like bad news...

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Somebody owes Dick Law an apology....

SUPREME BEING: "I should do something very extroverted and vengeful to you. Honestly, I'm too tired. So, I think I'll transfer you to the undergrowth department, brackens, more shrubs, that sort of thing... with a 19% cut in salary, backdated to the beginning of time."

Quote:

YANKONTHIS
Somebody owes Dick Law an apology....

With a name like that, I'd imagine his parents should go first!

.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:06:30:10:47:59 by Nikfonso.