Our English Spine doesn't exist

The following is an unedited selection of posts from Arsenal Times by two regular contributors, the reason why they are of interest is obvious. There is a link at the bottom to the original thread.

Our English Spine

......doesn't exist.

While reading up on the final English squad for the 2016 Euros, it is obvious that while we have a good number of English players in our club squad, it appears they are not thought to be of international standard. Only Jack has made the final English squad and we all know how much Jack has contributed in terms of productivity, in the past season. Our squad now seems full of 2nd choice Englishman and none of them even look close to becoming members of the English international team. What do you reckon?

Weedz

Matty Saddler replied

A lot of it has been due to injury, but they're all going through a rough patch unfortunately. Theo Walcott should be one of England's most dangerous players and, at 27, one of the first names in the squad, but he isn't. He only has himself to blame as well. What really says it all is how Wenger has always had so much faith and confidence in Walcott's attacking ability, and even he couldn't bring himself to play Walcott towards the end of the season because of his sh*t attitude. I can't imagine Wenger ever selling Walcott, but he needs to knuckle down over the summer and sort his head out, and get back to his 2012-13 form. Kieran Gibbs is 26 and should be approaching his prime, but he has hardly played this season. Meanwhile, there have been three other English left backs (Danny Rose, Ryan Bertrand and Aaron Cresswell) all playing really well, plus Luke Shaw out injured. It doesn't look like the "third centre back" is going anywhere soon, and with us being linked with moves for some young left backs, it doesn't look like Gibbo has much of a long term future here, unfortunately. Danny Welbeck would've been a definite in that squad, but again, injuries have been cruel to him. Hopefully he can recover successfully again, because he is an important part of the squad. I think the fact that Jack Wilshere has got in despite doing f*ck all, all season, is testament to Hodgson's faith in his ability. It is a bit of a gamble, especially over a safer bet like Danny Drinkwater, who has done well and played a lot this season. I hope Wilshere starts getting more luck though, because I don't know what will happen if he keeps picking up these injuries. Purely based on how well he did last season, Carl Jenkinson could've been an outside bet, but he wasn't doing very well at West Ham this season. Even if he hadn't picked up the injury though, he wouldn't have been named over Kyle Walker and Nathaniel Clyne. We'll see what happens with him when he recovers from injury anyway. Much like Walcott, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain was also having a sh*t season before it was ended prematurely by injury. To be fair, he did seem to be finding a bit of rhythm before his injury, but we'll never know if it would've led to anything. It is hard to predict whether he would've been named or not, had he been fit. Ox has always been a favourite of Roy's, but he hasn't named many wingers in this squad. The big concerns are injuries, of course, and his lack of development since we signed him as a 17 year old. Again, much like Walcott, he needs to knuckle down over the summer. The potential is there. Calum Chambers is a frustrating one. The potential and talent is there but he just hasn't played. I'm sure in another world he could quite easily have been named in place of a John Stones or an Eric Dier, but he hasn't had a kick this season. I'm glad he experienced some success with the England U21s though, starring at centre back and winning the 2016 Toulon Tournament. I hope he goes out on loan somewhere next season and does well. In late 2012, our "Brit Pack" core was being heavily marketed by the club as our future. The last two seasons have, unfortunately, been indifferent at best. The one real positive is that they're all of an age where they can still improve, so all is not lost, but staying clear of injury for a while would be massive, MASSIVE help.

Weedz replied

Well said, Matty. I agree with your prognosis, but I'm still scratching my head, wondering why our English core have not progressed, even given their injury toll. Do you think that they were/are good enough to compete with our imports, for starting spots? I am talking about our squad players, not our elite ones, like Ozil and Alexis. How far behind Monreal, is Gibbsy? Are Aaron or Jack capable of displacing a fit again Santi? Wenger has always played the 'I don't want my HG players regressing because of me buying in imports.' card. So the HG players have had the opportunity to succeed.

Matty replied

I think when you look at our English core, I don't think any of them are "bad" players at all. They have the tools to succeed, and as you said, they have been given ample opportunity. You look at our English core and most of them have been with Arsenal/ Wenger since they were 16 - 18, or even younger in some cases, and I think that has been part of the problem. I think he has made a big mistake in their development. From what I've seen over the last 11 years or so, Wenger tries too much to treat his players be adults. He wants them to express themselves, be all they can be and "concentrate on their own game". Unfortunately footballers, as a species in general, are not the most intelligent, and it hasn't really worked. As I said, these players all have the ability, and I'm sure if they were given instruction and tactics they'd do a much better job. Unfortunately they need a bollocking every now and then. Using Gibbs and Monreal as an example. As a young player Gibbs mainly played as a left winger and only started playing left back as an 18 year old, meaning he was late to it. Prior to Gibbs, the last defender to come all the way through our academy successfully was Ashley Cole, nine years previously, so it isn't like we're renowned for producing good defenders consistently in the first place. When you look at Gibbs and his pace, stamina and technique, he is a good football player. Undeniable. During the calendar year 2013 we were excellent defensively and, along with Koscielny, Mertesacker, Sagna and Szczesny, Gibbs was a big part of that. The ability is there, but he is let down tactically. He is allowed to sort of drift in a half-left back/ half-left wing position, and good sides will punish that. At Spurs, when Danny Rose and Kyle Walker go bombing forward, Eric Dier plugs the gaps and covers for them. They show tactical awareness and care about defending. No such thing happens at Arsenal, unfortunately. On the flip side, Monreal has always been a left full back and learned his trade at Osasuna. Monreal was a very weak player when he first signed for us, seemingly struggling against opponents with any degree of pace, power or skill, but since settling he hasn't looked back. Now, I don't think Monreal offers anything out of the ordinary going forward, but with Alexis in front of him he, does he need to? No. What Monreal does do is put defending first and keep things tight (hence "the third centre back"). Monreal doesn't get caught out with any degree of regularity and is defensively solid, which is why he starts. One of the more frustrating ones for me, personally. January 2012, the fans were booing and the camera panned to a frustrated RVP, our captain perplexed as an 18 year old kid, making his first Premier League start at home to Man United, his third Premier League appearance overall, was hauled off for an experienced Russian international who had been quite a high profile signing at one point. It might seem strange, but that is just how good the Ox had been. So much potential and promise. It is hard to believe that four years later those same fans would be the frustrated and perplexed ones, finding it hard to believe that this same kid, now a 22 year old, had gone an entire calendar year without a single Premier League goal or assist. I don't know what has gone wrong with Oxlade-Chamberlain. It almost seems like they thought "this kid is going to be great regardless, forget about it" and stopped putting any work in, but it hasn't worked. We just haven't seen enough improvement from the 17 year old we signed from Southampton to the 22 year old he is today. He has all the pace, power, skill and determination, plus the ability to beat his man consistently, but this is coupled with sloppy passing, carelessness in possession, trying to play out in dangerous areas of the pitch and no quality/ composure in the final third, plus injury proneness. He looked to have turned a corner last season before getting injured, and this season had to be the big one, but before picking up another injury he massively disappointed. Something has to change. To cut a long story short, I think the biggest problem, after injury, is that they have just been left to their own devices too much, when they really needed guidance and instruction. When you look at Walcott, Gibbs, Welbeck, Ramsey, Wilshere, Jenkinson, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Chambers, you have a mixture of players with the ability to be anything from just a useful squad member to a key player in the squad. With us needing to name a number of home grown players in our 25 man squad, I think they're just far too valuable to give up on, and I can't see Wenger breaking the group up. You just know our league rivals wouldn't hesitate to sign some of them. They're all at an age where there is still capacity to improve. It just remains to be seen how much they can.

Full discussion here