Ratings v Athletic Club

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:09:20:23:11:47 by Flava.

A very good 3 points.

As you say Martinelli MOTM.

Strength in depth is the answer this season.

Eze very poor.

Rice did improve later on

Merino only ok upfront.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

I think 6 for Madueke is harsh. I am starting to like all our signings even Gyokeres but Madueke is my favourite so far. He likes to try and get through a tiny little gap between his marker and the goal line, it’s pretty unusual, and he is good at it. Even saka is more inclined to cut back and stick the ball back into midfield or try a shot in his left foot.

Good review. Good ratings.

Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

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Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

Thanks for providing ratings Flava.
Well done on Marinelli image, nice job

I think Madueke deserves another point, I think some forward players wasted his passes.
I think Eze didn’t fit very well into the system.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

My MOTM was Mosquera.

Martinelli the difference maker.

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Boston Gooner

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Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

Did anyone see Calafiori pointing to Martinelli in the celebration. Was nice to see. Obviously a popular kid. Martinelli is not good trying to break down the opposition from the left when the are all bunched up. But running through at the end of a game when there’s space, there are few better players. A lethal option to bring off the bench

Quote:

Shane

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Boston Gooner

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Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

Martinelli was better than Trossard surely you're. not arguing against that Shane.

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GS1

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Shane

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Boston Gooner

Quote:

Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

Martinelli was better than Trossard surely you're. not arguing against that Shane.

Oh he will.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

Arsenal have become the first side in European Cup and Champions League history to win six consecutive matches against Spanish teams.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

It's great having options isn't it even with 5 key players out injured. We can quibble about the performances but one thing we can agree on the strength in depth great to see.

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GS1

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Shane

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Boston Gooner

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Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

Martinelli was better than Trossard surely you're. not arguing against that Shane.

I'm not. I'm saying Trossard was the spark.

Those who often criticise Martinelli gave him his flowers tonight.

Those who often criticise Trossard haven't said a word.

Quote:

Boston Gooner
Arsenal have become the first side in European Cup and Champions League history to win six consecutive matches against Spanish teams.

Be nice to add Atlético Madrid as the 7th win against Spanish teams.

Excellent Team Work.

Trossard and Martinelli = a Minimum rating of 8 from me.

This was a very good performance.

I liked how the two captains Gabriel and Inaki walked with the flowers before the game.

Arsenal Times | [www.gov.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:09:17:00:29:14 by Ares.

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Shane

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GS1

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Shane

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Boston Gooner

Quote:

Shane
Good review. Good ratings.
Martinelli was at his explosive best, but the spark was Trossard and it was nice to see them combine so well.

Well done Arteta for the subs too.

Surely Martinelli was the spark.
He was MOTM

Martinelli was better than Trossard surely you're. not arguing against that Shane.

I'm not. I'm saying Trossard was the spark.

Those who often criticise Martinelli gave him his flowers tonight.

Those who often criticise Trossard haven't said a word.

🤔 😁

@celine, I did think about a 7 for Madueke. He's relentless, I love him too. He should've had an assist tonight, Eze was half asleep. If he can clean up the final action we have a player who'd be worth double what we paid for him. I'd like to see him come inside a little more and shoot with his left foot.

This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

According to the BBC, since his debut in January 23 no player in the PL has been involved in more goals/assists coming on as a substitute than Trossard

Quote:

djarse
According to the BBC, since his debut in January 23 no player in the PL has been involved in more goals/assists coming on as a substitute than Trossard

And that is what he's best at.
Not starting.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

Quote:

celine dion
Did anyone see Calafiori pointing to Martinelli in the celebration. Was nice to see. Obviously a popular kid. Martinelli is not good trying to break down the opposition from the left when the are all bunched up. But running through at the end of a game when there’s space, there are few better players. A lethal option to bring off the bench

This sums Martinelli up perfectly for me. Get the ball in behind when the game is stretched and he really comes into his own and looks like a dangerous player. Last night he was terrific and his goal away against Real last season was similar.

But starting games when there isn't space in behind and he has to beat a player or make something happen and he's clueless. This is the problem we've got with him because we can't just use him as the impact sub where he's a very useful option to have. He's not going to be happy just playing that role either and rightly so.

So what to do with him is the issue. I'd probably (rarely) agree with GS and say play him through the middle, but he's not going to get in ahead Gyokeres now either so it's same problem.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

- Albert Einstein

Thing is playing through the middle in a tight game against a massed defence is probably even harder than than playing on the left, where at least you have the toucline as a safety net and only have to worry about what is infront and to the right of you.

Playing CF you have to be able to hold your own phyiscally against probably two CB's, play with your back to goal a lot of the time and work in even smaller spaces, if Martinelli struggles when he has to run at getting through two players with the ball at his feet, how do we expect him to do so when he has his back to goal and the ball is pinged in to him on the deck or even harder up in the air.

He hasnt the all round game to be a starting CF or LW unless its a team that plays strictly on the counter and they are few and far between these days.

We saw his best qualties last night as an impact sub, same for Trossard, the problem we have at LW is that we have now probably four sqaure pegs for a round hole. All bring something to the table, but none of them are the complete LW pacakage, so its going to be chop and change all season there unless somebody really steps up and adds that extra element to their game.

I agree JB, if Martinelli plays up top, it has to involve a change in tactics similar if not identical to accommodating Gyokeres (which we're still not yet doing effectively).

We have the same problem with Gyokeres where we're mainly trying to play him in our usual system of ball into feet, holding the ball up, back to goal etc. Martinelli has zero chance of playing that role and we are seeing similar limitations with Gyokeres when he can't play on the last man or there isn't that space in behind. It was evident again last night and he was hauled off. Same in the other big games so far this season with Utd and Liverpool. Last night Arteta seemed more inclined to take off our new star forward and just throw Merino up top. It worked on this occasion to be fair with the subs made but that can't seriously be our plan B because unless Arteta finds a way of getting the best out of Gyokeres, plan A is not going to work anywhere near as effectively or often as we hoped.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

- Albert Einstein

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Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

Much like LW when we havnt got that CF that can do it all, its going to be horses for courses all season. Right now we're trying to adapt to Gyokeres and him likewise, but Plan A I suspect in the big games when all things are even will still be Havertz from the start unless there is a serious gelling of our attacking unti between now and when he is back.

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Flava

Quote:

Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

Yes, he's a super talent. That's why Chelsea let him go.
Madueke isn't the winger package we needed.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:09:17:11:42:04 by Boston Gooner.

Happy with the win but still concerned with Arteta for not starting players who were well rested from the Forest game. Rice was the only new starter from the past weekend. Arteta needs to trust his squad to help him win games and go for sligjtly more rotation to ensure load management.

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Jonny Bravo
Much like LW when we havnt got that CF that can do it all, its going to be horses for courses all season. Right now we're trying to adapt to Gyokeres and him likewise, but Plan A I suspect in the big games when all things are even will still be Havertz from the start unless there is a serious gelling of our attacking unti between now and when he is back.

I think Gyokeres can still do the business at home in big games as we should still have the Lion's share of play. Where we are desperately missing Havertz at the moment is away from home where we don't have that advantage. It's already very evident Gyokeres is going to struggle the majority of times in those games.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

- Albert Einstein

Quote:

Boston Gooner

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Flava

Quote:

Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

Yes, he's a super talent. That's why Chelsea let him go.
Madueke isn't the winger package we needed.

I wouldn't just double down on your early assessment of Madueke.

Like with Havertz, it was fairly obvious Arteta had seen something in Madueke that Chelsea and others had missed. You don't pay the sort of money we did for those players otherwise. Madueke is already starting to show real promise for club and country and he's hardly got hair on his balls as far as being an Arsenal player goes.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

- Albert Einstein

I've always maintained Trossard has the most final third intelligence alongside Odegaard and Raya in this team.

The guy knows how to trick defenders with literally 0 pace.

If Madueke, Saka and Martinelli had even 70% of intelligence that Trossard has, they would be on peak Salah's level



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:09:17:16:52:45 by CazOnARola.

Quote:

mapleleafgooner
Happy with the win but still concerned with Arteta for not starting players who were well rested from the Forest game. Rice was the only new starter from the past weekend. Arteta needs to trust his squad to help him win games and go for sligjtly more rotation to ensure load management.

Early days yet.
What Arteta is doing is to let his Starting-11 have more playing time to build up their communication and understanding and cut out all those misplaced passes due to poor communication.
We are seeing the nucleus of his Starting-11 which he intended to play them in all games, and to rotate them for cup games.

Happy for both Martinelli and Trossard. I give Trossard the MOTM because he created a bit of magic. Martinelli was the recipient of that magic. His run (and the unintentional drag and push) was pretty amazing to, but the finish was poor (but we will take it!).

Also, gave Trossard the MOTM because people here seem to hate him. I'd imagine there are a few folks here who would have rather we lost so they could have said "see, we lost the game as soon as those subs came on"

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Boston Gooner

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Flava

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Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

Yes, he's a super talent. That's why Chelsea let him go.
Madueke isn't the winger package we needed.

Chelsea are playing trading. You've already said you can't stand him or Havertz so he'll need to score 40 goals for you to accept him

Lots of observations here. I think the lesson is we need to wait and see.

I wouldn't let the fact Chelsea let Madueke go form your judgment of him. Chelsea have let quite a lot of players go that turned out to be decent. Kevin de Bruyne springs to mind. Havertz as well, whatever you say, he has been good. They operate with a lot of pressure on the manager to deliver short term and recapture the glory days of Abramovic, and this leads to hair trigger decisions and a ridiculous churn of players (not saying it was the managers decision to let him go by the way, who knows...). We needed someone to stop Saka being run into the ground as he has been the last two years, and if you forget the Chelsea thing and Madueke had come from Real Madrid or somewhere, then I think the assessment would be different. The match going fans, of which I don't think there are a huge amount on here, clearly love him, I don't think he has put a foot wrong personally and also played great for England in a game which could have been difficult against Serbia. I have a lot of faith in him.

I was worried about Gyrokeres when I saw his first few games but I am more encouraged now. I don't think he will be the man to unpick top level teams in the CL, and in fact I think Havertz will become the pick centrally for those kind of games when he is fit. But day in day out he appears capable and certainly played well in Bilbao. End of the day you can have all the tactics you want but if he turns out able to win headers, hold the ball up early, and score frequent goals like the one against Forest which was literally an immediate cross from Eze and immediate finish, or smash the ball in with power like how he hit the post in the same gam, then in my book he is a decent addition to the team. Yes, he's not the saviour, but he's starting to look like a capable physical alternative that we can use in those games where the other team is bunching up to defend (like Newcastle have in the past few seasons and we have been reduced to crossing repeatedly into a crowded box with no chance of winning the ball). He also appears to be comfortable on the left which is good news.

Eze is finding his feet and probably wont be the immediate choice on the left, but we now have three players who can play there and Arteta will switch them about as required. Eze can drop into midfield, last seasons evidence showed he can produce fantastic moments and its great to have someone like that, proven in the league. Look at his early low cross on Saturday as mentioned earlier. Martinelli and Trossard would never have done that. We now have different styles to suit different occasions.

End of the day our options in the front three are insane compared to before. I would imagine when these forward purchases were made there may have been the intention to move Martinelli and/or Trossard on, but that hasnt happened for whatever reason, so now we can bring fresh players on like the two of them yesterday, and they solved the problems immediately. This is not to be sniffed at, and all the pundits are saying it (except the ones on here)

If I was going to worry about anything it wouldn't be the forward line. It would be deciding how the midfield should look. These are all good if not great players, and the criticism of Zubimendi on here is silly, to be honest. The Arsenal have won all their games bar the one away against the current champions, and whatever your assessment of minor factors in this, the Arsenal were not outclassed in that game and had the better of a lot of the game with a team that has barely played with each other and with 4 main players injured, losing to a free kick from 25 yards out. Zubi scored two wonderful goals on Saturday and you've got people picking holes in his performance. If we were United or Tottenham we would be raving about him.

End of the day, I think the signs are very very positive, Mosquera looks like he has played at this level all his life, the keeper is the best keeper in the league if not the world, we have England internationals like White and Lewis who cant even get into the first team, a 15 year old who comes on and dribbles 4 players at a time, and Nwaneri who with Dowman is probably the other hottest English prospect under 20 right now.

All in all, I don't see how it could look any better, at least in the view of people living in some kind of realism. If you don't feel good about this Arsenal team, then you are probably sat in your house picking over tiny little details and subconciously hankering after the days of Dennis Henry and Pires, and that is a very high standard to set yourself and also the Arsenal.

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Flava

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Boston Gooner

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Flava

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Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

Yes, he's a super talent. That's why Chelsea let him go.
Madueke isn't the winger package we needed.

Chelsea are playing trading. You've already said you can't stand him or Havertz so he'll need to score 40 goals for you to accept him

Hopefully they do.
Still wouldn't like the pair of them if they did though.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:09:17:20:00:08 by Boston Gooner.

We are still not strong enough for Saka cover.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

Quote:

regularjohn
Lots of observations here. I think the lesson is we need to wait and see.
I wouldn't let the fact Chelsea let Madueke go form your judgment of him. Chelsea have let quite a lot of players go that turned out to be decent. Kevin de Bruyne springs to mind. Havertz as well, whatever you say, he has been good. They operate with a lot of pressure on the manager to deliver short term and recapture the glory days of Abramovic, and this leads to hair trigger decisions and a ridiculous churn of players (not saying it was the managers decision to let him go by the way, who knows...). We needed someone to stop Saka being run into the ground as he has been the last two years, and if you forget the Chelsea thing and Madueke had come from Real Madrid or somewhere, then I think the assessment would be different. The match going fans, of which I don't think there are a huge amount on here, clearly love him, I don't think he has put a foot wrong personally and also played great for England in a game which could have been difficult against Serbia. I have a lot of faith in him.

Sure, Bilbao put 2 players instantly on Madueke whenever he had the ball, plus a 3rd player running fast from behind to close him down as well. Resulting, Noni was robbed off the ball every time when triple marked and hardly able to deliver a pass no matter how much space was created in the box for our attackers.

More works need to be for Noni to synchronous with the team to play give-and-go like that Triangle Odegaard-Saka-White which prevent double team from robbing them of the ball.

The main issue is that Noni is always isolated when taking on 2 or 3 defenders without an option of give-and-go with either Odegaard/Eze/Merino positioning themselves to receive a pass nor Timber hugging the sideline. Timber had already inverted into the centre when Madueke was facing 2 or 3 defenders.

The beauty of Saka is that even when facing 2 or 3 defenders, he has the skill the cut into the centre, create a yard of shooting space and hit the ball hard. Noni lacks this piece of skill, and only a brilliant dribbler without end products.

That is how much Noni needs to improve to become a goal threat like Saka, and even like Trossard or Martinelli.

That is why Maresca sold him. Just a dribbling gadfly without end products.
I do hope Noni proves me wrong and has an outstanding season with 10+ league goals scored.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” Saint Thomas Aquinas

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Flava

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Boston Gooner
This is the trouble with Madueke.
He has never had that final action.

11 goals and 5 assists last season in 2600 minutes undermines that theory. That's something you believe or invented but it's not true.

What Madueke does is commit players, Athletic began doubling and tripling up on him. That opens up space for everyone else.

Can he up those GA numbers? Definitely. Does he have the talent to do it? Absolutely

(This space he makes for other players)

If he can't get the ball to them it's a problem.
Like I said final action.

"𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗿𝘀𝘁. 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗱, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴."

Martinelli coming on as a super sub in the second half can be a very effective weapon for Arsenal. Super speed versus tired legs can be a recipe for success though he needs to come on with enough time to make a difference.