Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient


By Matthew Jones
December 9 2010

Total Tranmere brings you all the stats, facts and team news ahead of Saturday's League One game against Leyton Orient

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Copyright Historical Football Kits and reproduced by kind permission.

Article Header - Matt Jones

Since their defeat to Hartlepool United over two weeks ago, it's been a frustrating time for Tranmere manager Les Parry and his playing squad, with Rovers having had three games postoned due to frozen pitches in the mean time.

This Saturday, with a thaw predicted for the weekend, Tranmere are finally hoping to get back on to grass as they take on Leyton Orient at Prenton Park in nPower League One.

The O's come to the Wirral one point and one place behind Tranmere in the league table, so this is a crucial sides for both sides as they look to regain momentum in the league and push away from the bottom four.

Leyton Orient Factfile:

Ground: Brisbane Road
Formed: 1881
Nickname:  The O's
Manager:  Russell Slade
League Finish 2009/10: 17th
Kit Colours: Red shirt with white trim, red shorts and socks (home), All dark blue shirt, shorts and socks (away)

Previous Meetings:

These two sides met four times last season, twice in the league and twice in the F.A. Cup, when Rovers defeated the O's in a first round replay thanks to a late goal from Ashton Taylor, this after 1-1 draw at Prenton Park.

In the League, only four days after the F.A. Cup win at Brisbane Road, Tranmere were defeated by Orient 2-1.  The home side took the lead in this game before Charlie Barnett equalised for Rovers just before the half hour mark.

Orient however went on to grab the three points with twenty minutes left when striker Scott McGleish got in front of his marker to net from Sean Thornton's corner.

When the clubs next met in February, Tranmere grabbed a crucial three points that lifted them out of the bottom four for the first time since August.

Rovers won the fixture 2-1, with both goals coming in the first half, firstly through captain Ian Thomas-Moore who fired home a low shot from the edge of the area, before on-loan Watford striker Marvin Sordell doubled Tranmere's lead with another low shot, this time from just inside the box.

Orient rallied in the second half and pulled one back through Tehoue late on but it was too little too late for the O's as Tranmere picked up a crucial three points.

Vital Stats:

Tranmere have played fifteen previous home games against Leyton Orient, picking up eight wins and five draws, losing on just two occasions

Rovers have lost just one of their last seven games in all competitions against Orient, home or away

In their fifteen home matches against the London side, Tranmere have scored on 28 occasions, conceding just thirteen times

Tranmere are unbeaten in nine home games against the O's, a run dating back to January 1986

These two sides have previously met twice in December, with Rovers losing on both occasions at Brisbane Road

On This Day:

1999:  Tranmere's giant killing efforts of the 1999/2000 season continued as John Aldridge's side beat West Ham 1-0 in the F.A. Cup thanks to a stunning strike from Nicky Henry

1993:  John King's Rovers side win 1-0 at Kenilworth Road against Luton Town in Division One

1982:  Another F.A. Cup game sees Telford force Tranmere to a replay after a 1-1 draw

Tranmere Rovers have played just five previous games on this day and are yet to lose, having won on three occasions and drawn twice.  In these five games, they have scored eight goals and conceded four, whilst they have won both their home games on this day in history.

The Form Book:

Leyton Orient last six away games:  DDWDLD
Tranmere Rovers last six home games:  LWWDLD


Leyton Orient come into this game having lost just one of their last six games away from home, but they have also won just twice on the road in the league so far this season.

They started their six match run with a draw as Spring and Revell scored second half goals to earn a 2-2 draw against Swindon Town before despite two early goals from Revell, the O's lost 3-2 to Colchester Unied in their next away game.

Another draw followed in the F.A. Cup as Revell was again on target in a 1-1 draw against Dagenham and Redbridge, before they ended a run of seven away games without a win in their next fixture away from Brisbane Road, beating Bristol Rovers 3-0, with Revell netting twice to go with a goal from Simon Cox.

Successive draws have followed for the O's, meaning they come to Prenton Park three matches unbeaten on the road, as they firstly held Peterborough United to a 2-2 draw, Revell again on target for the seventh time in five away games, before the League One side were forced to come from behind to draw 1-1 with Non League side Droylseden in the F.A. Cup.

Other notable results on the road for the O's this season include two away cup wins, 2-1 against Swindon in the League Cup and 2-0 against Brighton in the Johnstone Paints Trophy, and a 1-1 draw away to Southampton in the league.

Russell Slade's side have played ten matches away from home this season and picked up just seven  or an available 30 points, having won once, drawn four and lost on five occasions.

Impressive results at home for Orient include an 8-2 cup win against Droylseden, with Orient scoring six times in extra time, as well as wins over Rochdale (2-1) and Exeter City (3-0).

Leyton Orient come into this game in twentieth place in the League One table, having picked up 21 of an available 54 points from 18 games, this thanks to five wins, six draws and seven defeats.

Despite a defeat in their most recent home match, Tranmere's home form of late has been strong, with just two losses in their last eight against on home soil.

The Wirral outfit started their six match sequence with a draw as on-loan defeander Scott Wootton scored a late equaliser against Brighton and Hove Albion as Tranmere drew 1-1, before Rovers lost their next home match against Brentford (3-0) following a dire performance.

Thomas-Moore Ian

Rovers then went on a run of three home matches without defeat, starting with 0-0 draw against Stockport County in the Johnstone Paints Trophy, a game they eventually won on penalties thanks to the heroics of goalkeeper Peter Gulacsi, Rovers' first penalty shoot out win for 17 years.

Tranmere then picked up two successive wins in their most recent two home games, firstly beating MK Dons 4-2 thanks to two goals from Ian Thomas-Moore and Dale Jennings, before Jennings was again on target as Rovers beat Plymouth 1-0.

However, Tranmere lost their most recent home game against Hartlepool United, as a second half error from Peter Gulacsi was all that was needed for Hartlepool to score as they won the fixture 1-0.

Rovers' only other notable home results this season include a 1-0 win over Peterborough thanks to a goal from Arnaud Mendy, and a 1-1 draw with Accrington Stanley in the Johnstone Paints Trophy.

Les Parry's side have played eight home league games so far this season, picking up eleven of an available 24 points thanks to three wins, two draws and three defeats.

Notable results away from home for Tranmere include league wins over Walsall (4-1) and Bristol Rovers (1-0) as well as cup wins over Bury (1-0) and Walsall (1-0).

Les Parry's side currently lie in 19th place in League One, having picked up 22 of an available 54 points from 18 games, thanks to six wins, four draws and eight defeats.

Double Hit: 

Defender Ben Chorley left Tranmere for Leyton Orient eighteen months ago, and has since been named captain of the Orient side.

Chorley came through the youth ranks at Highbury with Arsenal and won the Youth F.A. Cup with the Gunners, playing in the same side as Jermaine Pennant, Jeremie Aliadiere, Steve Sidwell and Jerome Thomas.

However, in 2003, having not made a senior appearance for the club, Chorley was released by Arsenal, joining MK Dons on a free transfer, with his only previous league footballing experience being three games whilst on loan at Brentford during the 2002/03 season.

At MK Dons, Chorley became a huge success and remained for the club for four years, making an impressive 139 appearances for the Dons, scoring five goals.

However, in 2007, following a loan spell with Gillingham, during which time he scored against Rovers, Chorley was released by MK Dons, joining Tranmere on a free transfer.

He remained with Rovers for two years and after a shakey start for the club, Chorley became an influential and well liked centre-back for the club.

In two seasons at Prenton Park, he made 89 appearances for the club, netting twice, whilst Tranmere nearly made the play-offs during Chorley's time on the Wirral, missing out only thanks to a late equaliser from Scunthorpe against Rovers on the final day of the season.

Following the expiration of his two-year deal, Chorley opted for a move back closer to home in London, joining Orient on a two year contract on June 17th 2009.

Since joining the O's, Chorley has been made captain of the club and has become a hugely important figure in the centre of the Orient defence.

He will not line up against Tranmere this Saturday due to a suspsension, but so far in his 18 months with the club, Chorley has made 72 appearances, netting three times.

One To Watch:

Striker Alex Revell is without doubt Leyton Orient's man to watch, having scored eleven goals for the club so far this season, nine of them away from home.

The 27-year old has had a somewhat stuttering career in which he's never really consistently met his potential.

Having started with home town club Cambridge, where he netted just five goals in 66 games, as well as spending time on loan at Kettering, Revell moved to Brighton in 2006 on a free transfer.

He scored eighteen times in 71 games for Brighton before moving to Southend United for £150,000 in January 2008.

However, Revell struggled at Southend, netting just four times in 43 games, and after spending time out on loan at Swindon, where he scored twice in twelve games, Revell signed for Wycombe Wanderers in January 2010 for an undisclosed fee.

At Wycome, Revell began to show some promise and having scored six times in fifteen games for the Chairboys, he signed for Leyton Orient on a free transfer in the summer.

It has been a successful year then for Revell, who has scored eleven goals for Orient in 25 games, whilst he has also netted seventeen goals in total in 2010.

An extremely quick player who can also play on the wing, Revell, who wears the number 11 shirt for Orient, stands at just over six foot tall and is good in both the air and with the ball on the floor.

Around League One:

There are ten fixtures at 3pm this Saturday, with the further two fixtures taking place on Friday evening, when Peterborough host Rochdale, and on Sunday lunchtime when Charlton take on Walsall.

Bournemouth vs. Hartlepool
Carlisle vs. Dagenham and Redbridge
Colchester vs. Yeovil
Huddersfield vs. Brighton
Notts County vs. MK Dons
Oldham vs. Swindon
Plymouth vs. Exeter
Sheffield Wednesday vs. Bristol Rovers
Southampton vs. Brentford
Tranmere vs. Leyton Orient

Team News:

After injury worries over the last few weeks to Enoch Showunmi, Marlon Broomes, Timothy Cathalina and Sam Morrow, the problem for Les Parry this weekend is a lack of training.

The Rovers boss told the media on Thursday that all four players have shrugged off their knocks, strains and pulls, but due to the icy weather, like the rest of the team, none of the players have trained on grass and as such may struggle to make the fixture on Saturday.

Gunnar Nielsen will start in goal for Tranmere as he replaced Peter Gulacsi, who's returned to Liverpool, whilst Scott Wootton could start in defence following his return from Manchester United.

Loan signing
Lateef Elford-Alliyu could finally make his debut for Tranmere after signing two weeks ago on loan from West Brom, but Tranmere will be without Arnaud Mendy who has returned to Derby following the end of his three month loan spell.

Joss Labadie will also be missing from Rovers' midfield as he finally sits out the second match of a three game ban, but John Welsh returns to Tranmere's side after a one match ban.

This game though will come too early for both Ash Taylor and Alan Mahon who, despite their return to training, still need to play a couple of reserve games to gain some match fitness.

Jones' Prediction:  Tranmere Rovers 3-2 Leyton Orient

Leyton Orient are a side well capable of scoring away from home, as they have already shown this season, but they also conceed plenty of goals.  

Not only do Orient leak goals consistently, but they also have both of their regular centre-backs, Ben Chorley and Terrell Forbes, suspsended for the game after they picked up red cards against Droylesden on Tuesday.

If their attack is on form this weekend then, Tranmere should be well capable of scoring a few goals and should have enough to get past Orient.

The key for Tranmere could be the return of John Welsh and Enoch Showunmi.  Both are pivitol for Rovers, with Welsh key in midfield where he breaks up opposition attacks and surges forward himself, whilst Showunmi is the link between Tranmere's attack and midfield, winning the ball in the air and scoring goals himself.

Tranmere must be strong at the back too though.  Alex Revell is a striker well capable of scoring goals who must be watched by Ian Goodison and his central defensive partner.

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Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Total Tranmere (IP Logged)
Date: 09/12/2010 15:55

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:12:23:02:20 by Deadly Submarine.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 09/12/2010 16:02

i think a 2 1 home win

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/12/2010 21:08

I think Tranmere can win, especially with more players back and potentially good loan options espeically Wotton.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: tranmerepete (IP Logged)
Date: 10/12/2010 18:13

Yes me too I'm going for Rovers win i think 2 - 1 ................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: @gony (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 15:58

need a few changes and some fight now ! thimk we'll see a differance second ahlf abd we'll at least nick a draw

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Ricci (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 17:26

Terrible defeat today, we didn't wake up until we scored. First half was a disgrace and the ball was just lumped up to Enoch. Mantom was awful, just chasing shadows and kept giving the ball away.

We have now lost two home games in a row to Hartlepool and Leyton oreint, who were missing half of their back four and played 120 minutes in midweek. Back down amongst the bottom four with a difficult run coming up. All the good work is getting ruined.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Mikey (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 17:40

What the hell did Les Parry's scouting report say?

Everyone knew Orient were missing Ben Chorley and Forbes, their best player and captain, their best centre backs, their first choice cb's. Everyone knew.

So we play 4-5-1 very negative. At the few times we did put pressure on their cb's they cracked. They were awful. Should of started 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 (a proper 4-3-3 though)

Second half was a million times better and we were unlucky not to get a point. Orient were cr@p though, 3 points were there for the taking.

It's hardly a coincidence the formational change at half time changed the game for us, but I bet we'll go back to bloody 4-5-1 on Tuesday and if we repeat our first half performance of today it'll be 5 or 6 at half time, not 2.

Also, Nielsen is the worst keeper since Ward.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac168/total-tranmere/goodison.jpg

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Ricci (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 17:54

Agreed Nielsen is awful. Cannot believe Les, formation was a joke at the start. He is tactically clueless.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 17:59

I'm not getting very good vibes about Neilsen personally. I'd prefer Gulacsi, or even Collister. Collister was better and I'm also gutted that Notts county won back to back games with late goals. They arguably should be 4 points below Tranemre, or at least 2, but they're not.

Tranmere need their full squad back and they need to not have a mssive disruption to fixture lists through the weather as well.

Bouncing back against bogey old Swindon and Sheffield Wednesday is going to be tough, but then stranger things have happened.

The main thing is for the team not to be down-hearted and to try and give what they can to future performances. The ability to sustain back to back results is tere, so Tranmere can recover from this and get a batter finish than last season.

Not a stirling result, but some good points and those can be used to build on.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: tranmerepete (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 18:35

Right we was very poor the first half. Why do we lump the ball up and why is the striker Enoch trying to win every ball then he is out of place and is then in midfield. We kicked the ball to no one every time. We played better after we went two down but that's no good to any one. Formation wrong, Long ball wrong, Keeper choice wrong he has played three games and we been beat three times and made mistakes each game that cost us the game. Hope we get a good keeper soon as we always had good keepers - Ward and Neilsen ......................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: tranmerepete (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 18:45

Forgot the ref was a F@ucking joke........................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: BELMONT (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 20:41

He`s only played two games has Gunnar Nielsen and he has cost us six points not good poor keeper bring back Peter Gulacsi in Jan as for the rest of the shower in the first half they made Orient look like Brazil mainly they because we were so poor and they chased every ball so their was some improvement in the second half but in the day`s of John King being in charge Kingy would had classed Showunmi
as his shot gun along side of one his gunslinger`s(Aldo or Muiry)because one of them two would have put away any of the chances Showunmi missed to day a good striker should given the times Enoch had the chances stuck one of them in the back of the net. Les say their were positives today sorry Les same old boot it up the field in the first half
O.K some extra effort in the second do not mean positive to me the boat sinking we should be beating teams around us I football teams do not have the right to win games but
if we lose at least get beat with the banner flying high
so as a fan I can go home with the knowledge that team played for the shirt and not to lay down as they did in the
first half, Les should have had them fired up from the start knowing their back line were missing two first choice defenders and the next two games Swindon(away) and Sheffield Wednesday does not fill me up with hope(Sm136)it looks like a bottom four place for the new year come January anybody know a mega rich Arab that wants to steady a sinking ship (Sm149)and quick

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 11/12/2010 21:56

A very bad result indeed with swindon & sheff wed coming up it doesnt bode well let alone huddesfield.

The defence was poor wooton looked lost at right back he needs to play centre half & get rid of grandison. The amount of times 1 of our defenders just launched the ball forward was shocking, the kper is truly awful. The midfield was poor and bypassed so often and our attack was way below par enoch missing a couple of sitters.

Players marks:-

Nielson - 4 made couple of good saves, cost us the 2nd goal and doesn inspeire any confidence, handling is poor.

Wooton - 5 scored a goal and played better in the 2nd half but was easily beaten time & again the their no27, needs to play centre half.

Cresswell - 5 created the goal from his free kick but defensivly suspect today.

Goodison - 5 Hit the bar & made good blaock right near the end but wasnt one of his better games.

Grandison - 3 Awful please send him back to coventry les, one of the main culprits launching the ball aimlessly.

Blanchard - 4 poor taken off at half time contributed nothing at all, just launches the ball when he gets it.

Mantom - 4 rarely got involved seemed to get to the ball jsut after it had gone contributed very little.

Welsh - 5 not one of his better game although he did try his best in the 2nd half.

Jennings - 5 sadly subdued especially in the 2nd half,
when he got the ball didnt try to go outside the right back always cutting inside made it easy to defend against.

Moore - 5 was not invovled too often in the game didnt really have manny chances.

Enoch - 4 should have had at least 2 goals missed a one on one wiv their keeper & put a free header just wide, not one of his better games.

Subs - I thought the 3 subs had a good go Lateef looked quite sharp & pacy, mcgurk did ok & fraughan passed the ball round quite well.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: MikeH (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 10:52

To be fair to Nielsen - he only cost us 1 goal and it was identical to the one that Gulusci conceded (in fact Gulusci was a candidate for doing this every game).

Not sure what it is with Prem loan keepers who all seem to have dodgy handling.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Erik (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 12:46

I wonder where we'd be now if they had kept faith with Barnes.
I recon the rubbish players would have been shipped out, he would have had a spine of a team from those he brought in like 'Zoom' and we'd be playing attractive football.
It's interesting that it paid dividends for Brighton to stand behind their bright new manager who had as many initial problems as Barnes, except the big difference was we gave into idiotic fan pressure and sacked him.
I'm sure as I write this piece Barnes affords himself a little smile and gains some satifaction at the mess the club is in after the way they treated him.
I think it's time to send out a huge "TIME HAS PROVED YOU WRONG", to fans like Mikey who thought we'd be better off without Barnes.
Happy Xmas to all and I'll write again and gloat when you're relegated!!!!

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: mallorcapete (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 13:02

is this the john barnes who failed at celtic?god help us if we still had him other clubs aren,t clamouring after him.in my opinion he will never get a managers job again.he signed 1 player bakayogo who is ok,but cant get in the team now and has a bad disciplinary record,who,s your team obviously not tranmere,

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matthew the rover (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 13:06

Erik if we'd kept faith in Barnes we'd have gone down last season

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 13:11

Eri if barnes will still our manager we would be in a relegation battle in League 2, hes a poor manager.

Why do you think it was 10 years between his managerial jobs in club football? As pointed out above he will not get to manage another league club.

As for the spine of the team thats a laugh ricketts mahon gunning bain to name but a few proved good signings didnt they?

Youve got as much idea as managing a team as barnes which is none.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: scouseerikly (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 14:42

let's talk in facts boys. all we know is that:
1. we;re still at the bottom of the league, which is where we were on replacing barnes. so it made no difference.
2. brighton were in a similar mess when poyet joined and they're now at the top.
3. barnes did a fine job at celtic and jamaica and was unfairly sacked by celtic and then left jamaica as we wanted club football.
4. he had no money to spend and inheritated a team where the spine was sold
5. the racist fans were on his back from day 1 and the followers followed
6. when i listen to him he speaks sense
7. we started playing attractive football
so based on these facts we would have had a good spine by now, would be playing attractive football and have shipped out the hoofers........end of chat

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matthew the rover (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 14:57

Hey Eric, good of you to post under two usernames to try and back up your opinion and make it look more popular. Shame that you didn't consider trying to post from a different computer and as such both usernames come up with the same IP address.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 15:35

barnes did a fine job at celtic????????? you really are deluded.

Brighton have got good financial backing and have a fairly big wage bill unlike us.

When barnes was sacked we were bottom and in the process of being cut adrit, we are currently just outside the drop zone & in touching distance of various teams.

As for the colour of his skin it dont make any difference just his ability or not to do the job.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: TT Admin (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 15:39

The point everyones missed above?.....

Erik started by posting "I wonder where WE'D be if Barnes had stayed" and ended with "I'll come back to gloat when YOU'RE relegated"

Not a Rovers fan and therefore not a clue what he's talking about.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: scouseerikly (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 17:20

semantics dear deadly; and if you were as charitable with your freedom of speech as you are of poor football, you'd have heard hundreds more opinions backing me up. your problem is that this site is just full of back @#$%& and boot lickers rather than a place of debate. hang your head in shame!!
thanks for your comments matt "I'd give les at score of 9 out of 10" the rover, whilst we (happy deadly) lay second from bottom. i'd rather listen to the opinion of ronnie 'hoof' moore than yours, and i think he's a blithering moron.
ps. amir khan was fantastic last night

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matthew the rover (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 17:44

Ha ha beautiful Eric. I'd like you to please back up "Matt "I'd give Les 9 out of 10" the Rover" with proof that I ever said this please. Because I haven't.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 20:51

Erik behave please and think abotu your comments for a while.

Barnes is arguably one of the best players liverpool and England had, some might say, but as a manager he blows.

He lost to Caledonian Thistle in a cup match when they were div 2 and that was seen as a serious mistake at Celtic.

In what way does losing a game at Bury when you're 1-0 up, count as a good result?

At what point does losing to Millwall at the Den 5-0 constitute a good result?

At what point does being 2-0 ahead to a "can't win away" team like Gillingham and crawling over the winning line from 2-2, constitute a good result?

He only beat Wycombe because the one money shot out of 3 team efforts, Ian Moore took, went in. A team who sneaked into League 1 on goals scored, ahead of Bury, whose manager left because they were deemed too small to fulfill his ambitions.

I think McAteer was treated a little unfairly, as he was also Moores assistant, though I'm not 100% sure how much more influence Barnes let him have, but John Barnes is not necessarily a good manager. Maybe with the right circumstances / club, he might be good, I.E. Ian Holloway at Blackpool and Plymouth, versus Ian Holloway at Leicester, but the fact he signed Bakayogo, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have.

Maybe he was a very limited choice of manager, given the financial restrictions, but he sucked and Tranmere would have almost certainly been in league 2 this season.

His points average in the league was around 27%. Les was around 40% or just over. Who's better in that instance? Barnes, NO.

Barnes couldn't even manage 2 back to back league wins, 4 points from 6 being his greatest achievement, which included that ropey Wycombe win and then the 4 points were backed up with the horrendous Millwall result.

Please do yourself favour Erik and stop posting this stuff about poor managers and players. Honest opinions are fine, but major misjudgements followed up with personal attacks is ill advised and shows poor judgement.

Les is a better manager than Barnes. He is proving now, he can be a bit flexible with tactics, not like Barnes who just used farce and move all the time, because he thought Tranmere were Liverpool in the making, or some such thing.

Les isn't perfect and I've never posted anything pro Les, in an attempt to look like a suck butt and nor has anyone else here.

If you're that bothered about Les and Tranmere why not start your own phoenix club called AFC Tranmere and get Barnes as manager.

He might take the £15,000 a year, or whatever you could afford at Vodkat League 1 level, or if you're lucky, Northwest Counties division 1 level, or very, very lucky, maybe even Evostick Division 1 North like Chester, if you can find a club with a 10,000+ all seater stadium to groundshare with.

Then you can have all the pass and lose football you want and have a good moan when your £10,000, £80 a week strikers, score 5 goals a season each and if you're in the N C Div 1, get relegated to West Cheshire League.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: pcandchris (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2010 22:40

I'm sorry...... I don't often attack posts on this esteemed site, usually because the opinion is supported by reason, but Barnes..... would have been better?

The most stupid posting I've ever read.

We would be heading down with Chester by now - scrapping at the bottom of Div 2 with non-league beckoning.

The man will never get another job in football after the ineptitude he has displayed.

Les will do OK. he's got more football knowledge in his little finger than Barnes will ever have.

hartlepool and Orient were disasters - 6 pts from those games would have had us singing.... and I won't fight shy of admitting that, but this squad paid for with green shield stamps is still good enough.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: gunnarneilsen (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2010 21:03

I don't care what you lot say with your boring repetitive arguments. As far as I'm concerned Barnes was treated abysmally and if he was still here we'd be top 6 just like Brighton. Loads and loads of people agree with me it's just they don't waste their time with this site as the admins delete their posts. Enjoy relegation boys as you've contributed to your own downfall.(Sm76)

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 14/12/2010 21:37

you dont know what your talking about and prove it with your point that barnes was doing a good job at celtic, if you didnt notice they came 3rd in a league with 2 decent teams and lost in the cup to a team 2 leagues below them.

He was and always be a poor manager and if you didnt notice we were at the bottom of the table when he was sacked with a dreadfull goal difference and being cut adrift from safety.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2010 20:17

Quote:
gunnarneilsen
I don't care what you lot say with your boring repetitive arguments. As far as I'm concerned Barnes was treated abysmally and if he was still here we'd be top 6 just like Brighton. Loads and loads of people agree with me

Well by all means let them come here and do so, if they really exist in their droves.

Top 6 with Barnes? Not likely. What makes you think even if we had still been League 1 this season with Barnes, possible loans like Robinson and Hume or signings like Trundle and Macken would have been any more likely, when he would have had the same money to spend on players.

He got Kithson Bain. Some don't rate Morrow and Akins that much, but they're better than Bain. Even Kayleden Brown was better than Bain and Barnes had more money, because he was paying some of it to Goodison and Mahon.

You'll notice none of Les's free or bought transfers, are playing lower league football on loan.

Oh and Les has never been beaten 5-0 in any league game.

Tranmere have about a 1% chance of relegation in my mind and if they do, it will be because of Johnson and his financial strangling of Tranmere, not because of Les. Having the money for players like Robinson and Hume, who were possible signings, whatever the actual likelihood, could have potentially put Tranmere in the top 6 potentially this season, but Tranmere don't have such money and they therefore never came.

Poyet is top 6, becasue he can afford to pay players like Kishishev, (Ex premier league and Bulgaria), Sandaza, (Ex Dundee United) and Ankergren, (Ex Leeds), money Les could never afford, because Brighton can afford to build a 25,000 all seater stadium.

Right now Tranmere could probably just about afford to install new turf and replace a floodlight or two and that's not sarcasm, that's an honest viewpoint.

Amazes me how some people can't use rationale and logic enough to realise these things, or notice simple maths.

I'll point it out again. Les Parry 40%+ points average last season. Barnes around 27%. Simple maths, simple conclusion. Les is better than Barnes.

The only manager potentially worse than Barnes is John Gorman and he probably wouldn't come to Tranmere, because he'd be misguided enough to think he deserevd more money than Les, when I'd only pay him the same salary as someone like Mackreth gets if I was Johnson.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2010 21:01

Matt 1% chance of us getting relegated????? if you hadnt noticed we are only out of the bottom 4 on goal difference weve lost the last 2 games at homes against poor teams who are likely to be near the bottom of the table.

Our next 2 games weather permitting are at swindon were we rarely get much and home to an in form sheff wed which are difficult games.

I think we will probably just escape relegation but it may go down to the last game of the season again.

The main worry for me is that we have very little strength in depth when injuries & suspensions take their toll & wil have to rely on poor youngsters we get in on loan.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: TT Admin (IP Logged)
Date: 15/12/2010 22:06

Can't agree on the 1% chance of relegation Matt but I fully agree with everything else you said abovesmiling smiley

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: HughJarce (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2010 08:42

Financial strangling of Tranmere by Johnson? Read the accounts. If Johnson pulled out tomorrow and went, so would we. He has done well to turn it around on declining gates.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/12/2010 22:36

Yes Tranmere would be up the cack hole without Johnson, but the fact remains, what is he doing to encourage investment or buyers? By all accounts, (no pun intended), he's pricing the club too highly, and he uses dumb American investment companies, who think when he wants to sell his 40% stake, he actually wants the whole club put on E-bay.

Apparently the American investment company were also involved to procure investment from America. Why not Britain and why not at least update people more, on the investment or sales opportunities for the club. Lorraine Rogers was more media friendly than Johnson. He had his momenet in the sun years ago, which I believe he exploited to get Simonsen to Everton on a cheap deal, but he isn't that relevant now. He should go and let another person or other people, own part or all of the club and stimulate more investment and make more people want to come back to or start supporting Tranmere.

The argument they'd be stuffed without him could apply to anyone. Gretna died when their bankroller got seriously ill and took all his money away, eventually killing the club.

So it's a valid point, but it's not a scenario that wouldn't be unique just to Tranmere or a few clubs like them. Wimbledon have never been the same since Sam Hamaam walked, when arguably they could still be Premier League if he'd stayed. A once non-league club, built up, only to drop back to League 2 and then to some extent recover.

Johnson is working to some extent with dwindling fan numbers yes, but if he wants them to come back, he needs to build a more appealing prospect of a Tranmere to fans. There was some sort of possibility that the Hume and Robinson loan deals could had happened, which could have been more possible by paying them as much as is feasible per week, then giving them a chunk of money each upfront, to cover the rest, instead of using that money to buy Morrow. Two popular players, potentially helping Tranmere to a top 6 place. That small piece of creative financial working, might have been enough to reduce the drop in attendances, maybe even increase them a little, by giving people a team that felt more desirable to see, because both players were well liked.

New initiatives like Tranmere Cats and community activities are great, I'm all for diversity of facilities and creative stimulus, but how many beer drinking adult fans go with their mates and want to goof about with people in costumes, or do Yoga and dance classes?

Financially speaking, a few people paying a bit of money to do Yoga classes and such things now and then, won't help Les to even spend 10% more a season probably I would think.

Johnson should go, because his once helping of the club, is now becoming hurting more and more and it isn't fair on eveyone there, especially Les, when he has good signings to go for and finds he's only got 50-75% of the wages needed to get them and quality experienced signings go elsewhere.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: tranmerepete (IP Logged)
Date: 18/12/2010 17:22

Simonsen to Everton on a cheap deal,He went for three and half million and at that point that was the record for a goal keeper. I for one dont want to watch young kids dancing at half time. But i would not mind if they was over 20.........

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/12/2010 22:36

Well I thought Simonsen went for £3,500,000 too, but was told on here a while back he went for less than that, on a deal that suited Johnson and Everton more than Tranmere.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matthew the rover (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2010 13:45

There's no way on earth we ever got £3,500,000 for Simonson. He went on a pay as you play deal, and with Everton not able to afford the payments to us, they never played him, so we barely got a penny

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2010 15:34

we got half a million up front then a further half a million later on, we also got graham allen who was rated at a quarter of a million.

Everty game simonsen played for everton we got a further 5 grand which was only 30 games in total. I think after a set number of games we also got more money & if he played international football we would have got more money.

The maximum amount we could have got was £3.3 million but we got nowere near this amount & including the allen deal think we got a bit less than £1.5 million.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: tranmerepete (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2010 16:38

Yes but as reported by a figure the sale was 3.3 million. Maybe we never got the whole money but that was value.. It looks like we ended up with about 1.5 million...................................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2010 23:34

The problem is, what kind of Chairman, sells his own players to another club for around £50% less? Not even a club about 2 weeks from liquidation would sell that weakly. Maybe 75% market value but 50%, I can't see it.

He had part ownership, so it suited him, but because of Tranmere saddled with soem debt from ground development, you could argue he helped Tranmere get relegated, if another £1,500,000 for the deal, could have helped to afford a few slighty more expensive but better players, achieving higher more lucrative league places, potential added cup monies and more chance of avoiding the drop.

If the team had gone down anyway eventually, even 3 years later, by now attendances might arguably still be another 500-1,000 more a week and Les might be spending possibly around £2,500 a week on players not £1,200 or so.

Just one example of Johnson working against the club. A once pertinent figure, slowly becoming an irrelevant afterthought.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: bigmart (IP Logged)
Date: 22/12/2010 08:48

Matt, simonesen was never worth anywere near £3million in all honesty he wernt even worth £2million he was a decent keeper but never a top notch keeper.

Re: Tranmere Rovers vs. Leyton Orient
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 22/12/2010 09:09

True but part ownership was against league rules because it can lead to murky deeds.Somehow P.J got away with it.We should have been sold then at a realistic price for we had a base to move from.
The drop in gates in recent seasons has been the consequence of a wage budget set lower than that of other clubs with a similar fanbase.As a long term business plan it will almost inevitably see the club continuing a decline.

I can see no evidence that PJ has any real interest in the future of the club. He is certainly no benefactor as events when he moved to Everton demonstrated. Most clubs have the drastic but potentially reinvigorating prospect of going into administration we do not even have that prospect

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