Club 9 Sports Takeover Bid Nears Completion

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:14:17:24:40 by Deadly Submarine.

hmmm worrying times ahead me thinks though only time will tell what there plans are for us.

Some more quotes....


"Our view is the club will be an Allied owenship of the English and the Americans - if we can get the terms finalized. Thanks for the support."

"We agree with you that the Super Whites can average 7 or 8 thousand per home match if the right improvements are made."

"Our view as operators is that the central value of every sports team is not its venue or its players, but rather it fans. We can't guarantee you'll like everything we do or that you'll agree with it, but our actions will be guided by trying to improve the health and value of the club. It will be in our own best interest to do that."

"Until we know we have deal, we are making no decisions about the manager."

"The 420k was related to our talks with SWFC from 2009/2010. Those figures were really just part and parcel of the total costs to run that club and are not related to TRFC."

"We know the underlying asset of any sports club is its fan base and fan support. Our goal is to make the club stronger and more valuable in time. Because discussions are on-going between our company and Mr. Johnson, we cannot provide any detail on the progress other than to say we hope a deal will be concluded very quickly. As regards the involvement of the fans and supporters, CLUB 9 SPORTS will be open to the engagement of fans at many levels - including fan forums."



The third one concerns me and I dunno why?! Maybe reading to much into it?!

If the takeover is completed then I very much doubt Les will be our manager next season.

The only way Club Sports 9 can make money out of us is by improving the club both in terms of investment in the team and investment in the facilities. PP has its limitations and moving to a new stadium which could be used more than 23 times a year makes business sense.
Today Brighton got promoted, they move to a 23,000 all seater stadium next season, the future looks good for them, good side good ground. At the moment we have a poor (by the standards we set in the mid 90's) side and an average ground, to make our side good we need a creative midfielder and a goal scorer, Nevin and Aldo carried the team in the 90's, and an experienced manager.
Personally any takeover would be welcome, PJ has achieved a lot since he first took over, he has also watched the club decline since he came back, he wants out. I doubt many people reading this post have created a multi million pound company, or have ran a football team at any level, ever spoken to a football agent or written terms and conditions for a players contract, we are quick to criticise because we care, owners come and go but the fans will always be there.
Club 9 sports are taking a chance on us, they are not property developers. asset strippers, or fly by night investers looking to make a quick profit, lets give PJ some credit, it seems the Americans are collecting football clubs at all levels so why not Tranmere.
Lets remember money does not necesarily create success unless we are talking Chelsea/Man City figures, QPR have had money backing them for a few years and finally they have got it right without major player investment (Clint Hill in the premiership!!!!).
Lets sit back and enjoy the ride, what have we to lose, they are putting money into the club, i'm guessing we are one of the cheapest clubs in the country to buy so minimising their risk, yet the rewards could be tremendous, we could be the next Blackpool, Bolton, QPR who knows, I sure as hell don't want the next few seasons to be like the last 2.

Mikey, that third paragraph i do not like either. In fact, this lot shouuld go round in ever decreasing circles.

kiws, the americans can make money out of us by selling prenton park the area which we own around prenton park and if its ever agreed ingleborough road

Here's some more for those not seen them...

" We agree with you that the stadium is best owned by the club. We do not have plans to sell the stadium. Although, we have heard that perhaps a long-term view might include the possibility of a new stadium on the waterfront - after the economy recovers and the club shows the ability to support such a project."

"The only thing we can say is that we hope that works out very soon"

"We are very familiar with the irresponsible management of other clubs whereby the future is leverged in hopes of promotion through massive payroll increases. We know that winning requires more than simply a large wage bill. We do plan to aim high and we certainly must attract new fans and bring back former ones, but it will not be accomplished overnight. We cannot saddle the club with debts it does not have the cash flow to handle. We have to be smart about where we make the investments but we do have to grow the revenues at TRFC. We can't really get into too much detail at this point as private negotiations are on-going. We appreciate your engagement on the issues and we hope there is a reason to do much more of this in a few weeks."

"We are operators who like to find turnaround opportunities in specific business sectors. One of those sectors is sports. Within sports, we have specified four areas of focus. One of those sectors is professional soccer/football. Right now, there are great opportunities to buy English clubs - if you can improve them. We beleive the trend is very good for the long-term health of soccer in the world - especially considering the international media coverage of English Football. We also like the long-term potential of the Wirral and the fact that the club is relatively healthy, although has seen a steady decline over the past few years in revenue. The club is not massive, but it can certainly be much larger than it is today."

"We would not categorize this transaction as an LBO (Leveraged Buy Out) because in our contemplated structure, the overall debt of the club is being reduced and the Balance Sheet is being strengthened by our investment. We can't get into specifics because we are in private negotiations with Mr. Johnnson at this point but really appreciate your question."

"League 2 would really be a tough situation for all of us. Our goal with any investment is to improve the business and make it more valuable than we we acquired it. To be accurate, while the club was "self-sufficient" last year, it does have a lot of debt and cannot sustain itself as is - in our view. At this juncture, we cannot say how much investment will go to the wage bill. Tranmere has a great heritage and our plan would be to honor that and build upon it if we can."

I honestly don't know what to think. Part of me actually wants it to happen, because if rumours are to be believed Les will get a new deal and the budget will be cut again. This will mean another season of awful, horrible football. Maybe these guys can enable us to attract better players, and install a new manager with fresh ideas.

However, I would be worried they might lose interest quickly, asset strip etc etc

I suppose we are in a downward spiral with a bleak future without considerable investment, but I can't get the Osterman debacle out of my thoughts.

I take a positive attitude on this, whoever owns us, the Club will always be in being. Lets try it and see. As regards Les still be in charge, let them see what he does and then remove him if they wish. I don't think we should always take a pessimistic attitude particularly as we can't see in the future. The core of the fans will always be here. A lot of us remember Osterman, myself included and we are still here aren't we. Also, in my opinion I like what they say up to now.

What concerns me, is the words "make the club more valuable".

The value aspect of the club has been quoted in both of Mikey's posts and my wonder is yes, the added value might be good, but for who?

As long as Tranmere are moving in the right direction, spending some more viable money and moving towards Chamionship and possible Premier league status, does it really matter that much how valuable Tranmere is?


Club value would only really matter to owners for

A: attraction of investors, to supplement / add to funding.

B: attraction of investors, to replace some funding, leaving them free to put the reclaimed capital in other projects / ventures, without reducing club resource.

C: for selling purposes.

D: for possible stock market inclusion or share price manipulation

Tranmere could suddenly be worth £8,000,000 by August or £12,000,000 in 3 years time, but most Joe Blows wouldn't care as long as some of the factors causing value propulsion were contributing to team progression up the system, so the Americans seemingly putting some emphasis on the clubs "value", is to a small extent niggling in the back of my mind, because if the increased value was purely there to satisfy option C:, I personally can only see Tranmere in that scenario potentially being in a black hole of sorts in around 5 years or so, maybe more.

These statements by Club 9, serve to tantalise or whet the appetite for people and may make some start dreaming of Tranmere, being the next Blackburn and spending amounts similar to what Venkys can probably spend, but the statements for me DON'T give any indication that long-term ownership is what is on the cards, even with the statement about a possible stadium build, when the economic climate picks up, as that's reliant on factors unknown, not factors Club 9 can start to govern, from the first 3 months of ownership, so that kind of statement hints at longevity of ownership, but with conditions or clauses attached, so it just makes any longevity look vague and not concrete.

Unless they turn round and say, we would have no plans to use any kind of exit strategy for at least 10 years guaranteed, then that question mark of how long they will own the club will hang over the transaction and they could decide to leave as soon they see viable, without even stipulating a concrete timeframe, but perhaps springing it on people without warning, causing mass concern and worry.

They need to make concrete statements on longevity for me, as claims about investiture in this that and the other, won't help, if they bail on the club and just sell to whoever and Tranmere becomes nothing more than a club with a fairly frequent rotating ownership policy, rather than a club that can sustain owners for 10-20 years at least.

I like a lot of what they say, but I still feel something isn't all it should be.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Heres the latest quotes...

"If a deal gets done and then relegation happens, we'll have to deal with it. If relegation happens before a deal gets done, then that might be difficult - not impossible - but difficult because of the obvious financial impact of being in the 4th tier."

This to me suggests they want to make us a successful team on the pitch anyway, though obviously the main concern is how we are off the pitch.

" We appreciate your comments and agree with your assesment of TRFC as a local community asset. We recognize that the fans and supporters are anxious for a renewed plan and spirit. In our view of sports, it all begins with focusing on fans. And, we very much appreciate the time-tested traditions of hard work and honesty. Those are traits that knows no boundries."

"We can't get into any possible details with regard to player budgets at this stage. Our goal would be steady improvement over time, with a goal of returning to the Championship in the future. It appears to us that Dale Jennings is a player with a great potential future, so we would love to have him remain."

"Jon Pritchett, John Prutch, Carl Scheer, Byron Rucker, Jim Thompson, Doug Strom and other CLUB 9 SPORTS personnel have very strong reputations and experiences in business in the US. They are "hands on" operators who have done some nice turnarounds over their respective careers. Having said that, they are not high profile, "Donald Trump" types. As noted before, CLUB 9 was recently formed so there is very little in the way of history for the company."

"We hope we are in the very last stage - so perhaps weeks but no guarantee that a deal is finalized."
(In relation to how close the deal is to going through - they then stated it won't happen before the Notts County game and several of their people have been to visit the clubs facilities)

Someone then asked about this (link - click here) to which they replied...

"Mr. Pritchett can speak for himself but if you do a little digging you'll find that the plaintiffs in that suit not only dropped the charges but they issued a public apology to him. What's more, some of the defendants who were sued by Mr. Pritchett in a counter suit are now in jail serving long sentences for their crimes."


They then went on to say...

"The Liverpool deal hurt a lot of us. They have a great American ownership group, now though. We are well aware of your concerns. We suspect you'll like what we plan to do in terms of the long-term and short-term to make the club stronger. There is no value for us unless the club prospers."

"For now, the focus would be on other more pressing items - business operations, on-pitch performance and international player development. In time, perhaps when the economy recovers and the attendance is stronger, a new stadium might make sense."


When asked about "international player development" (something proposed by C9S) they responded:

"Developing young players from around the world who can't get the training, competition and coaching in their home countries that they could get in England."

"Sure, the local players are the core. However, TRFC could become stronger at developing younger players from other parts of the world who want to make it to the top level of English Football and who could fill in certain gaps in the roster."

And the last few quotes...
"We recognize and appreciate the long-held support of the TRFC by fans. We beleive things can be improved over time, despite what others think. There really is no other reason to make this investment than to improve the business over time. In that regard, we're all aligned."

"If the deal works out, we'll do our best to get the club headed back in the right direction. It will not happen overnight, but we beleive it is certainly possible to improve the club's value with time, money, personnel, vision and hard work. We will not make promises or predictions."


However their have been some more challenging questions which have been ignored, or in one case told the theory of them being "asset strippers" is a "nice conspiracy"

For the few people that have told them to "back off" their replies (considering they're buying the business of which we are the customers) seem a little OTT/sarcastic?!

Sorry for the long post, hopefully for those of you who haven't seen the quotes it's off some interest, though obviously anything they say at this point could just be said to get us fans onside, I'm still skeptical..

Quote:

Ricci
I honestly don't know what to think. Part of me actually wants it to happen, because if rumours are to be believed Les will get a new deal and the budget will be cut again. This will mean another season of awful, horrible football. Maybe these guys can enable us to attract better players, and install a new manager with fresh ideas.
However, I would be worried they might lose interest quickly, asset strip etc etc

THey might want more money out of you. They might figure that while there are fans who cling to Tranmere Rovers, and will even buy a season ticket to support the club when they scarecly go, will cough up ? The increased revenue going into their pocket and not on running costs.

At least they're not making promises & I like their "International Player Development" idea,we could unearth some gems,I think all the speculation & rumours are not worth listening to because 1.It's out of our hands & 2. PJ will not sell unless he clearly thinks that this is in the club's best interests,he could have sold out by now,but he has been waiting for the right buyer/s

I personally think it sounds promising.... we need some form of investment as were only going one way at the moment. Confident we can stay up this year but next season again will be a tough one!

If theyre here for the longterm...noone knows, but if they can build us up, even to a mid table championship side, surely were a more appealing purchase than what we are now... theyl make their money and we might end up with a 'Niall Quinn' style ex Liverpool/Everton player or consortium who would be more likely to invest seeing that the club is running and being run sweetly.

Mentioned before that they might up thr season ticket/ gate prices.... am not a ticket holder but get to approx 10-15 home games a year now.... personally, i wouldnt mind paying an extra few quid if I was watching better football and more victories!!!!!

We can only watch from the sidelines as to what happens... im happy with the comments I have read above... Thanks Mikey for the updates!

For "International Player Development" read - going behind the managers back to bring American college players over on a big agents fee (who will be a subsidiary of "Cloud 9" (sic) or its board members or whatever pseudonym they trade under) who will be forced into the shop window of the first team regardless of talent and experience.
hhhmmmppphhhhhhhh!!!!
Sincerely hope my suspicions are wrong but if this happens then hello AFC Tranmere on Shafts pitch in the West Cheshire League in about 3 years time. Only bright spot being a nice "Morrisons @ Prenton Park" to go into pre-match to buy a pie and a can of pop

I do like what they are saying, but maybe they are just doing that because it is what we want to hear? I just can't decide, I want change definitely, but am worried by what certain people have said about them.

Yes i would say they are just saying the sort of things they know supporters want to hear, i cant help but think this is not going to turn out good for us in the long run.

Banging on about it on here that they will sell us and run us down how do you know this?. Can you see in the future. Pj is running us into the ground now.

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

I like what they say. Ok, I may be chasing a metaphorical donkey (have you seen me play cricket? ) chasing some carrot, but they are saying all the right things.

They seem to have the right ideas about what could take us forward and make us "great" again. PJ has done wonders for us initially, and LR kept our head above water. PJ now isn't interested and we're in decline. But I trust he still loves us enough to do right by TRFC.

Peace out y'all!

They talk a nice prospect, but they still are being non-committal on how long they plan to be there. If they could just say we're in it for at least 10 years, then all good and well. They're comitting to a long-term ownership in public, which means they would be under pressure not to welch on that and leave within 5 years.

Giving the club nice things, then selling it for a possibly a £1,000,000+ profit to some other lot or consortium, would still be creating the potential of revolving door ownership, if Tranmere got a similar lot and changed hands nearly as often as £10 notes do in Grange Precinct.

Having owners in there for 10-20+ years would bring long term stability, stability they don't seem to be expressing. Improvement is not necessarily stability.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Just me thinking but tuesday night by all accounts is nearly a sell out? What better time to conclude the deal and present themselves b4 the game and announce their arrival?
Thoughts? Or am I mad? And before anyone answers yes I am!!!!

They've already said it won't be before Tuesday!

Didn't realise you guys had all this going on! They certainly sound as if they are saying the right things but as some of you have already pointed out, are they saying them because they know it's what you want to hear. I'll keep my fingers crossed it doesn't go the clownty way.

What's the development potential at Prenton? Like at Dean Court for example where we have a stand missing, we have the potential (just not the resources) to build a small/med hotel or a conference centre along with the missing 4th stand, something we were trying to do until recently I gather. Is there any similar potential for you? That's the sort of thing that can make a club not just self sufficient but actually running at a profit. (The cynic in me reminds me to mention or the shyster chairman makes a profit and the club keep surviving)

" We agree with you that the stadium is best owned by the club. We do not have plans to sell the stadium. Although, we have heard that perhaps a long-term view might include the possibility of a new stadium on the waterfront - after the economy recovers and the club shows the ability to support such a project."

Not knowing your area, is this something achievable? A new stadium with hotel/conferencing/sports centre for non football related revenue streams? If they have the finances for the initial outlay, it's a buyers market still. If they were to buy the land and have it built what a valuable asset and of course where they could make their money. The danger would then keeping that side of it under the clubs ownership (£30/£35k/month rent is hurting us financially) and ensuring that a decent enough percentage of the money from other revenue streams gets invested into the club. Personally I'm not against a chairman/owner making money from a club as long as the club is also making as much if not more money and it is being invested correctly. Building up a decent squad on not OTT wages a start, solid foundations. Say you had a conference suite earning for ease of maths £10k/month profit and the owner pockets 25% and the other 75% is invested in the club, there is a league one wage paid for, 2/3 wages for a couple of youngsters to develop for a couple of seasons. But the wage is there and not dependant on ticket sales or club shop sales. With the right person in charge taking it slowly, take the next 5 years consolodating in Lg 1/Champ if needs be to build strong foundations and as the young players gain experience they can play you up the leagues while you gain financial stability off the pitch. Heaven!! I think that's what most of us dream of at this level, fingers crossed for you that this is going to be a reality for you. I'm with the not liking no time scale people, it is us fans who always end up bailing our club out of the next around the corner crisis, As Matt34 says stability. Vital and rarely there for any of us!

What are your supporters Trust/fans representative group like? Would they kick up a stink if they didn't think it was right for the club? Do they have a reasonable working relationship with the club itself? We don't have one - it started to go wrong in short the night those on the board who didn't resign in protest voted against the wishes of the members to vote for the sale of our ground! The divide caused in our fans over it all has never really been recovered from. Well technically we do have one but there are about 3 board members because no-one can be bothered to stand for it any more and about 20 members if that! The final nail in the coffin for them was the day our current chairman was announced as the new owner and they issued a statement within about 5 mins declaring it was the worst thing possible to have happened to our club and they did had no faith in the new board and followed it up with their announcement for phoenix plans!! Not sure what was more laughable, their sheer stupidity at a time when the fans had totally lost faith in them as a trust and they were not popular at the club (they backed a different potential buyer very vocally, the one who never put his hand in his pocket when it mattered...) or the fact that they couldn't understand why the club refused to acknowledge their exsitence

Yours is a nice club, nice fans and deserve more than you've had. I hope the investment is at least enough to get you kick started again. Les Parry has to go, the difference in you from a footballing perspective was shocking to be honest. I remember our games as being much more entertaining, more of a passing game, more creativity and Pepe always putting someone into row z . We go languish in the basement for a couple of years and we come back and get flipping hoofball! Ok same could be said for us but seriously you're better than that!

We have the main stand which costs six figures a year in maintenance, desperately needs rebuilding to cut costs but could, and should be rebuilt with more conference facilities as you say - though not sure their is space for a hotel, perhaps they could build a block of flats a la Leyton Orient in the corner..?

As for a new stadium (this, I suspect is their plan) check this out: [www.wirralwaters.co.uk]

A plan by peel holdings to invest in our dockland to make us as big as New York and Shanghai.. well thats the plan - if it comes off it really is the place to be and a stadium move (so long as the stadium is owned by Tranmere Rovers FC, and not a holding company) would be very much welcomed.

The TWFST (supporters trust) have worked closely with the club over the past twelve months, they helped raise 12k to secure Andy Robinson on loan and came up with an initiative to keep season ticket sales at a similar level to last season, despite the horrid season we have. Unfortunately they, like us, cannot get a whisper out the club what is going on. Communication from TRFC has been shocking always - C9S are engaging with fans on facebook whilst TRFC won't even release a simple statement about it!

Club 9 are clearly mounting a charm offensive they are not going to come out with any negative comments regarding what their plans are

Agreed Mart they are saying all the right things that's for sure but I guess you would expect nothing else.

I'm really not sure what to make of it st the moment but the more people dig (and I've tried digging a bit myself), the worse things appear to look.

Do we know for sure this Facebook page is legitimate by the way?

Cheers for the link Mikey!

theres 2 ways to think of this

number 1

we have peter johnson incharge and we face relegation next season again

number 2

we take a chance, footbal is about taking your chances this is a big chance for us

Spot on Jade. We are doomed if we stay with PJ. I think a lot of people's minds are twisted. Let's not forget that they are the only people that want to take us over. Football and life is a gamble. There is always three doors in life to open. It's about take the right chance. Maybe it might be the wrong door?. But it might also be the right door. If we don't find some money soon the club will not be around any way. The club has become that bad that we let anyone run us. Just because cause it's cheap. Let's face it Parry has and his so called football has been a joke. We hold on to him cause we say we have no money and that's all we have. Tranmere need a Manager and a higher Budget to make the club run to what it should and can be again and to bring the fans back again................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Alternatively think of it this way.

1. You get relegated.

2. You get big money, get promoted, they pull out after a while, you can't stay up because the owners and the medias actions seriously affect the players, you go down, end up like Plymputh and potentialy fail to exist, or get bought out by the same kind of people, who put back where you were before after a few years.

Tranmere would be in the mire if they dropped down to league 1 with some players on £10,000 a week.

3. You take the punt and it works out.

Right now they can say whatever they like about player development, ground improvements, helipads, casino facilities and a Tranmere Rovers formula 1 team, but until they say anything conrete, rather than just stuff that might be some peoples footballing wet dream, they're potentially just flim flamming really.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

I love the way some fans jump without even thinking about this takeover carefully.

They see it as just a way of getting rid of Les which is just unbeleiveably sad

Nah I think they look at it as being rid of a pure retard. "Big things are happening at TRFC" - well PJ I've been "watching" this fecking space for twelve months and still f*** all has happened.

Whilst the yanks are saying everything right it's still no good as theirs no formal plans.

Under PJ we are destined for relegation to the fourth tier (if not non-league) but their will always be a TRFC.

Wow to the Wirral Waters stuff - thanks for the link. If there is a big investment going into/planned in that area then I can perhaps understand the bid more. Get in their first get a decent stadium built with good corporate facilities which will be snapped up for use by new businesses in the area. It actually could work. If you could gain the monopoly down in the newly developed area before your nearish primadonna neighbours then you really could grow as a club. Get a good soccer school program going, do deals with businesses moving in.

Glad to know you have a decent and proactive ST - it does help. Not sure I'd like to be in your position right now, the uncertainty is always unbearable! We normally get sold on average every 2/3 years for 50p and an out of date marsbar. Lots of promises followed by lots of lies, a few more debts added to the total and then bye bye we're sold again! Our chairman appears to have us the most financially stable we have been in about 30 years but as he doesn't talk to the fans (thanks to our now defunct ST) so we don't really know. Due to our history I distrust all sales of football clubs!

I'll keep watching

Quote:

Mikey
Nah I think they look at it as being rid of a pure retard. "Big things are happening at TRFC" - well PJ I've been "watching" this fecking space for twelve months and still f*** all has happened.
Whilst the yanks are saying everything right it's still no good as theirs no formal plans.

Under PJ we are destined for relegation to the fourth tier (if not non-league) but their will always be a TRFC.

I remember that* subliminal message* hidden in a page
of I think the last programme of last season amongst with words of text on the page was the message in a different colour * Big things are happening at TRFC* again I am also waiting for that thing to happen and await the outcome*was it a smaller budget than the season before if it was because the way things have happened it could be the BIG THING TO HAPPEN NEXT YEAR is a smaller budget?

Ha, funny you should bring that up - I was going to post something about that as well.

There is nothing of substance in the statement.All is blandishment of the sort you would expect from a company that specialises in short term speculation. football is full of clubs seduced intially by charm offensive takeovers that have gone horribly wrong.

In the short term there is no way that money can be made from the football operation. Where is the money for investment coming from? I suspect that it will be through loans made to the club against its assets. Not new money, but new debt.If it doesnt work out then Club 9 cover their psuedo investment by taking(selling the assets).'Allied ownership' is a phrase that needs unpicking and i doubt that it bodes well

This lot were not good enough for a desperate Sheff Wed .why are they suitable for us?

I agree that the current situation is frustrating and offers little chance of the club moving forward but it doesnt mean that every alternative must be better.

Plymouth were given similar promises by a Japanese business group and look where they are now.

Why have Club 9
- not spelt out the structure of ownership
- explained the source of investment funding (and how this will be secured)
-defined the management structure of the club
-indicated a coherent development strategy for the next 5 years

Johnson failed to invest in the club- he made loans to the club which he is now trying to call in through the sale
I see no evidence that Club 9 will invest any significant funds into the club (by that I mean putting club 9 money into Rovers with the prospect of either making a return or suffering a loss.At best it will be a series of loans with the club having to finance repayment as well as paying amanagement fee to C9. The deal stinks

JP has his money in the club. He has taken next to no interest on that as far as I know. It is up to him what he does and agrees with any other Company. Until you own shares in Tranmere, I do not think it is reasonable to make demands on what a prospective buyer wants to do or share... Sure, it is good if they do communicate to build a relationship.... Just my view from a Company perspective. Of course I want PJ to care what happens subsequently but it is not a right to expect that.

The point is that it is his money in the form of a loan and not an investment.if it had been an investment it would now be worth considerably less and the club would be easier to sell. P.J used Rovers as aspringboard to gain control of Everton and made a killing on that deal.

As for his responsibilities to the club ,it depends on your view of capitalism. If it is it is o.k to make money at any cost then he has no responsibility to the future of Rovers.Not all capitalist are like that and a club is such an integral part of a community that it it is difficult to agree with your conclusion that it is my money so I will do what I like.
The money that supporters raise for the club is not aimed at the owners but the club and that is way it is not just like any other business.I have supported Rovers for 60 years and I think that does give aright to comment on the approach to ownership and selling the club. Football is not simply a product it has brand loyalties that have nothing to do with quality.That is why I would rather watch Rovers than either club across the water ,even if they were available at the same price and providing better quality

I think part of me wants it to happen and if it doesen't I will feel a bit gutted. I am sure this is only because of the thought of another season with budget cuts and a struggle to stay up again. I just want a bit of excitement, maybe if they bring new ideas etc forward it will create a bit of a buzz.

I think people are jumping to conclusions on both sides of the spectrum.
On one side you have people who : Think that because they are american they are awful with money which is a bit of a dangerous prejudice.
and the other is people who are blisfully ignorant on what PJ has done for this club. He may not be investing much but he did save us from doom!

My opinon is that i cannot change the outcome of whatever happens, and i dont believe PJ will sell to someone who he believes will cause us more harm than good.
Its hard to judge what will happen right now on what little information we have but easy to speculate, so im going to save my passion for Prenton Park, until something goes wrong that is!

its nothing to do that their american its the fact that they are an investment company trying to buy the club that is the problem.

The biggest worry for me is that they sell prenton park and we dont own are on ground in which case we really are in trouble.

Sums up both sides of how I feel Darko! Great post!

I didnt specifically mean you bigmart I just meant a lot of people who have been negative about the whole thing have been judging their finacially skills based on nationality!
I think the only person though with enough information to judge if this is good for the club right now is Peter Johnson

A lot clubs don't own there ground anymore.....................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

Quote:

tranmerepete
A lot clubs don't own there ground anymore.....................

If you can hold on to your ground then do so! Our Sale and leaseback is hurting us financially. Our rent is £30 or £35 000/month so before we can even think about funding wages we have to find that amount to go out first and it is holding us back. We'd love to strengthen the squad but can't because we are currently trying to run within our means and once the rent and current wages are paid we're skint.

[www.courtoffside.com]

I've done quite a bit of research on these people, and have said plenty about them over at The Cowsheds.


First point: You can't make money in football club ownership.
OK, an over dramatic point of view, and not strictly true.
But at our level? Sufficent enough to cover their intital investment? Impossible.

Pritchett has a blog, where he made his views on English football last summer, and I actually agree with a lot of what he says.
The fact is, to be relatively successful we would have to get promoted.
Sadly, The Championship is now Greed League Lite. You need money to survive.
The new parachute payments come into play in the summer which will make it even harder for smaller clubs like us, Scunny, or Col U & Southend, who have been in the Championship recently.
He said he will not invest in players wages in that division.
Fair enough Blackpool done it against the odds, but with each passing season, the Championship grows farther apart from Leagues One & Two, just like the PL has in the last decade or so.

They claim to be keen on Wirral Waters, but that's at least a decade away.
I simply can't see how they can get their money back on the footballing side of things, so Wirral Waters could be an ideal opportunity to sell Prenton Park, while we wait for a new ground (That may never come)

Plenty of people have emailed them and got responses. I haven'dt had a response to my lengthy email yet, but I aske some pertinent questions, not daft ones about players or managers.

As for international player development, jog on fella's.
The market is sown up.
In days gone by, African Nations Cups, Under 18, Under 21, etc confederation or world competitions were usually full of scouts, but now, just like in the PL, the scouting network is so intesnse that kids are being sourced at much younger ages, so it's more than likely we'll get the Kithson Bain's, rather than the Cesc Fabergas's of this world.

And have they thought about EU employment law, and passport/permit requirements?

They are also linked to banks, so I'd be interested to know how they are funding the takeover, becasue lets face it, it's at least $7 million, and possibly closer to $11 million if they're wanting Lorraine's 30% as well. Something that no one seems to have mentioned.

I can't find anything to suggest they're good for the club.

kithson bain is god's gift to football. i miss him

but you miss the point that in the previous tax year 09/10 prittchet made $150 million on his own not club9 on his own so clearly he has the finance behind himself and its not just him buy the club so clearly they have the money

lets all sit here and say that peter johnson is a saint he saved us we cant thank him enough in 10 years time we could all be on here say why did he sell us he messed us up bla bla bla you get the point but we all want to retire at some point you cant blame the man... but at this current time he is a saint but next season if he is still here he could become the devil if we were to go down i wouldnt want to see that from our saviour

i hope that he does sell he would be opening the door to a possible bright future it might be a long shot but i would like the cup run day back etc

[">www.youtube.com]

a want to see these nights again they may create becasue we all know peter johnson is very unlikly to

Johnson did save the club yes, but then he did things like let Everton have Simmo for cheap mates rates and didn't sell sooner, by pricing the club too highly.

Why did those portuguese people not buy, apart from not getting Swindon, they thought they could have a second prize. Tranmere would be getting Americans that couldn't get Sheffield Wednesday. It's like Man City being bought by Thaksin Shittywanker, because he couldn't have Liverpool.

You question their commitment to a club they never initially wanted, because if they had been seen as fit and proper by the old owners of S W and taken over, would that mean Tranmere would be owned by Milan Mandaric now?

I doubt it.

Devonexile has it right in many respects. They remain non-committal on solid aspects, because saying they will give you certain things is good and well, but giving nothing regards timeframes, or specifics about revenue generation streams, leaves too many unanswered questions.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

you can consider us as a second prize but sheff wed were in administration they needed new owners if your going to buy a club in league one its normally one that has gone into admin thats why were second prize

there not going to tell us stuff simply because that is between them and the club and no one else but its not good us being kept out the loop club 9 tell us that the deal in nearly done is it really them who knows

but then we have club when papers ( wirral globe ) do a story on it and ask the club to comment the club say no comment on the matter which makes you think there must be truth in what club 9 are saying but lets all be honest we dont know what is happening club 9 are doing more know than what pj has done all season which is comunicating with us the fans thats what you need from owners

If your issues are with us being second best then you're thinking emotionally rather than rationally. Buying a football club (or any business) isn't like asking someone for a dance at a disco. There are many factors involved, including time and circumstance.

Why would the come forward and tell us all the in and out's of there plan's when it has not gone through yet..................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

No I don't consider Tranmere as second best, but I do consider Tranmere as worthy of being bought by someone, or some people, who make them a first choice.

Two potential buyers went elsewhere first and whilst they don't necessarily have to give specifics, it would be nice at least to tell people if they'll still be around in 10 years, so they don't look like poitential flybynight owners that split within 5 years.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

think of it of 2 ways to all them fans on the border line

they have said they dont want to be in league 2 which means ambition but thats not my point

next season face relegation most like get relegated with peter johnson and if the worst comes to worst with the yanks we get relegated to league 2 im with the yanks thay may do some good

dont know if anyone has noticed this and may ease fans minds about about these people and if there going to just run up a debt at the club

Management Team via e-mail: club 9
John Prutch - Managing Partner:
Jon Pritchett - CEO / Operating Partner
Joshua Prutch - Partner

Prometheus Capital Partners, LLC is a private merchant bank
JOHN PRUTCH, Managing Partner
JOSHUA PRUTCH, Partner
jon pritchett club9 ( club 9 apart of the bank)

so they wont get a loan of a bank they will get it from them selves witch means they want file debt procedings on themselves becasue that would just be rediculous a thought that was a little bit of good news

Yes, but it's not like putting some money in a cookie jar, for when you need to pay for some gas or buy some trousers.

These guys can manage or oversee, any finacial organisation they like, but that doesn't mean they can have free money when they want it, based on a lick and a promise.

They would probably still need to justify to others at Prometheus and some kind of financial services regulatory body in America, that they could have an amount, deemed acceptable for their requirements and that could be paid back in an acceptable timeframe.

This potentially gives no assurity to anyone, especially if they then try to acquire a lot of money they can't give back, because they try to improve Tranmeres revenue streams, then find within 2 years, a fixed percentage amount of added TRFC revenues, needed to payback Prometheus, isn't being made.

They would just screw themselves and their colleagues at Prometheus over, with wishy-washy repayment claims they couldn't fulfill, then Tranmere might potentially get buttf**ed by Prometheus and potentially some other American organisation, that regulates financial services and possibly the FSA in this country and the ICC, so suddenly Tranmere becomes a breeding ground for all sorts of transatlantic financial goverment watchdogs, babysitting Them through some murky waters.

Alternatively they repay back Prometheus properly, by creaming more off the top of Tranmeres revenues than was planned, screwing Tranmere over just to please Prometheus.

I mean that's like the head of Citigroup trying to buy a team like Brentford and fund it, just using £15,000,000 for example, of their own companies money, seemingly because they could and being permitted by the FSA, ICC and anyone else involved in such things, then finding they could only give back 75% of the repayment money per month or per year, when Brentford wasn't becoming rich enough. They'd either have to screw over their own company and underpay, or pay in full as per agreement, and screw over Brentford.

This doesn't alay any concerns I have unfortunately.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Jade, they can and may still use a bank to fund the takeover.

My biggest fear is we end up having our ground sold and have to pay high rental fees each year.

cant see it myself as they have talked on the facebook page of building a new stadium when and if the club develops to me that doesnt sound like poeple that want to see a stadium

If they have the funds to build a new stadium without having to see PP first then my cynical view is it gives them 2 stadiums to sell from under you in order to recover their money back. The new one with a covenant that it comes as part of a sale and leaseback with TRFC and the other one with a view to development. The less cynical part of me looks at it as 1 to home you in and 1 to sell to recover some money.

[www.courtoffside.com]

Jade as I see it, they've really just mentioned the economic climate in Britain picking up, regards stadium building, as was quoted on here recently.

I think that has less to do with what Tranmere can make financially and more to do with how they might be able to borrow money in Britain if needs be, or how building costs might drop compared to now.

If they could potentially in a few years, save a few million on building costs compared to now, becasue of economic improvement, they might do it. If the climate 5 years on was condusive to comparable or raised costs, they'd probably forget it, as they could cite examples like the initial projected cost of Wembley, versus the final cost of Wembley, as reasons not to start building something, they could find they were unable to afford to finish.

Oxford united discovered that, back in the old Divison 1 days in the mid 90's, when they couldn't afford to continue their build.

I think they were relegated that season. They showed one of their matches against Man City I think it was, on Granada and the cameras showed the stalled build and it ended up for quite a while, looking like a bombed out WWII aircraft hanger.

That thankfully for them, eventually resolved itself and the stadium was built.

Brighton should have moved out of Withdean, in around 2-3 years of moving in from the Goldstone. After 12-13 years apoproximately, they will now finally do it.

A new stadium might just happen, about the same time as Space domes on the Moon. Any sooner would be severely wishful thinking I feel.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

i heard a romour today that the deal has clapsed after they have tried to move the goalpost and pay less for the club i just wondered if anyone could shed any light

I heard the opposite today and that the deal was to be completed next week! Only terrace talk, not sure how reliable!

i did hear both but was a bit concered with the one i posted as thought that maybe quite true

I get the impression that they were waiting for us to be safe in L1 before concluding the deal.

No gossip or anything - just an instinctive thought I had.

Quote:

Mikey
I get the impression that they were waiting for us to be safe in L1 before concluding the deal.

From the little I have read I think you are probably spot on. The comment about how difficult it would be to deal with relegation or words to that effect suggested then things would stall until they were sure they were trying to buy a L1 club.

[www.courtoffside.com]

The bottom line is, I fear, without this (our only opportunity) Rovers are doomed anyway.

I hate that the only possibility of getting rid of P.J. is some dubious sounding yanks. Is there no-one with any money and some balls to take us on on the Wirral?

Macca lives in Heswall sometimes, so he could afford Tranmere, but I doubt he'd want to.

It doesn't have to be on the Wirral though. Even a couple of cockerny geezers, with 2 wheelbarrows full of crisp legit fifties, might get a look in in my estimation

Bill Kenwright would be good. Sell Everton to DIC who can't have Liverpool now, or some other filthy rich conglomerate, then buy Tranmere. He's a full on passionate chairperson, who I think has more charisma and comes across as more genuine than Johnson ever has.

I bet he wouldn't tell a fan to shut up either .

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

We'd have to be singing 'we all live in a deadly submarine ,copyright the beatles downloadable on itunes'
at every match for Macca to consider us. Love the idea of Kenwright Matt. It'd be like total payback for Johnson going to Everton. I'll be sure to suggest it to him if I ever bump in to him. It'd be totally worth the mouthfull of abuse I'd be sure to get. He might even tell me to shut up.

We have been up for sale for years. If some local rich person wanted us then they would have made a move by now. When PJ pops his gloggs and his kids want the money back where do you think Tranmere are going to magicaly get six million pound from?. A move has to made because budget cuts and lower crowds and rubish football will kill us in the end. People seem to think that we should pass on the only real offer we have had in ten years. When we end up going down and still have to get a loan or sell the car park to pay PJ back we will be no better off.........................................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

I totally agree, lets stop the paranoia the bid is American, so what? lets grab the opportunity whilst its still on the table, PS I hope Lorraine Rogers sells her bit and moves on as well.

Yeah becaue everything Lorraine did was terrible wasn't it?

I mean, imagine from being 2 minutes away from the play-offs to this in two years?

Lorraine's decision making was far better than PJ's imo. Both are terrible at communicating with the fans but she would never have touched JB, or employed LP.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:28:20:04:13 by Mikey.

I will give you that one.................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

She might have hed no choice with Les. You get what's available and if people like Keith Hill, won't touch your poultry wage budget per week of 10,000 Albanian Lek, then you'll be pretty stuffed somewhat.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

lets be honest even paul jewell slated the budget on soccer saturday after barnes got sacked saying no manager could work to that budget and were do you expect to be in the league when its that bad so clearly when you pay crappy wages you dont get the best football the best tactics etc but so far you do get to keep you league status which at the monent means a lot

How was Jewell able to slate the budget?

What kind of understanding of it did he have?

I mean getting in a load of youngsters would be an indication limited resources, but it happened more this season than last season.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

He was linked at the time which give the impressiOn that he may have seen the budget

Thne clearly Paul Jewell could never have been the right manager for the job, because it showed his lack of ambition, that he couldn't see how it was workable.

The fact Tranmere have stayed up 2x in 2 years with an ever decreasing budget says otherwise, regardless of the man in charge, it's been proven to work.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.