Tranmere Rovers v MK Dons Match Discussion

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:16:17:01:42 by Deadly Submarine.

Big game for us this, chance to turn our form around after the break and pick up a result. I think we can sneak a win, 2-1

You may have heard of the play "Brick up the Mersey Tunnel" their may a sequel"Brick up the Rovers Goals" M K Dons have notched sixty goals so far this season makes our goals for look a bit sick.But you never know we might nick by one.

well be interesting to see if the hunger is there in the side tomorrow ! if we click we'll win 3 - 0 only concern is that Robbo may feel hard done to us hanging on to Jose !?!?

Robbo and Baxter may start together, as they did last time.

Les says he's been working on more play down the middle; getting 3-4 in the box and trying to get people on the end of balls, instead of drifting out wide and not getting on the end of balls.

Time will tell if it works or not.

I almost started to believe it was a Movember hoodo. That all those moustaches were weaving some kind of black magic on the players, but obviously that's insanity knocking on the door .

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

you expect a close shave then ?

Tranmere can beat anyone in this league, that's a fact. If they keep it tight at the back, they have enough upfront to nick results, but it's a case of trying to promote more output from the front.

The thing is they actually creaste enough direct chances, but sometimes can't find the extra 5% needed to make them goals, because it's crossbar, post, easy goalkeeper chances and hitting defenders, that end up beign frustrating.

A bit like last time when Lucas Akins rammed two good chances stright at the keeper and one was off a Baxter crossbar effort. I that goes in, maybe the game would be different from 1 up to Rovers.

I think the quality upfront is there, as was demonstrated last season by Enoch, by Baxter this season, by Lucas and also by Tiryaki netting 2 agaisnt Scunthrope, but it's about making better use of what is available.

The backup from players like Weir and Robbo as well in setting up and scoring goals is key.

I don't think the strike quality at Les's disposal is weak, it's just simply trying to tweak the formula to solicit more output. Tiryaki can adapt, Akins looks a bit better this season and Enoch is proven at this level, including his spell at Bristol City.

Perhaps an extra face at Christmas would be interesting for competition, but utilise what is present in the right way and there's more goals, so hopefully the things worked on will yield those additional goals in the next 4-5 games.

if the defence put in the kind of performance shown against Sheffield United and Charlton, then there's every chance of a steal.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Quite a few of my staff have gone so I hope we win cause tommorow will be hell. They have all commented that the ticket price for the game is cheaper than there coach ticket

With any luck the recent rain/hail for the past week will have done a lot of damage to our pitch - that alone will play a big factor in stopping MK play their usual passing game.

Sounds bizarre actually that I'm saying us having a @#$%& pitch will be good!

No Raven or Goodison in today`s line up.

**** c'mon Rovers !

50% possesion we've had 7 attempts on their goal 3 on target ! they have had one and scored !?!? crazy game

vxls have scored three first half ! I wonder ?

Absolutely abysmal performance. I don't care what the stats say, they are misleading. I am sick and tried of it now, we have gone back to last seasons boring dull and losing style of football. After a promising start in which I began to wonder if Les had changed, I am sorry to say he hasn't. Same system every week, like for like substitutions at 2-0 down at home? Get a grip, play 2 forwards, how could it get worse?

If it wasn't for Rachubka it would have been more. He made a cracking save second half, and one in the first. I was just bored and cold, our forward play is just laughable, another game without a goal, but that is the norm under Les.

Some said playoffs were possible, the fact is we will never progress anywhere under Les Parry. The football will continue to be awful to watch, and to be honest I am worried about getting into a scrap at the bottom now. Our form is pathetic, and we can easily be dragged into the mess at the bottom. People keep telling me we have a good squad, so it must be the way they are utilised. I have had to put up with this turgid, uninspiring, dull rubbish for over 2 years now, and I am sick of it.

Les, you haven't changed, you are tactically clueless, and I am bored sick of you.

Reality check

Much richer club
Missing OFW, Goodi, Raven, Devaney
Team in form 6 wins in a row.
Best footballing side in the division.

We tried to play the way we had to (counter attack) and did ok creating some decent chances. Thought we kept shape well and enoch held it up well on occasions

Ultimately I feel there class showed and we then conceded a 2nd trying to press and open the game up.

We're still mid table very safely. Which with resources etc... would be a good finish position.

We are never going to win if every time we get the ball we give it straight back to them (Taylor, McChrystal)

We are never going to win if we don't create goalscoring chances (1 this game which Enoch fluffed)

We are never going to win if players aren't interested.

We are never going to come from behind to win playing 1 man up front when MK were happy to pass it round the back four.

A sad performance from a team lacking confidence and tactical knowhow. It was embarrassing to see the footballing gulf between us and MK. We treated them with too much respect letting them play their stylish passing game. I know it's not PC but we should have roughed them up a bit, they were much too cocky in possession.

Ricci, I am starting to think that you are one of the only people on this board who actually attends matches. I couldn't have written a better summary myself. I knew today was going to be bad when last week our idiot manager declared that we have been "playing too much football at the back". What is he talking about? All season long our full backs and centre backs have done nothing but hit the ball long. If anything, we need to play more football on the ground, not less!!!

After every defeat Les seems to quote statistics about shots on target but (as you have said previously Ricci) very few of these are what you class as 'sitters'. Why is that? Because of the awful style of football we play. Most of the time we create what I would call 'half chances'. It was embarrassing today and Les must be stupid if he doesn't understand why fans booed at half time. I just can not understand why he didn't play 2 strikers after we went 2 down.

The football we play is driving supporters away and I simply don't accept that lack of money means that the only way we can play is to hoof the ball forward.

I agree with what someone shouted today in the Borough Road -"What have you been doing for 2 weeks Les?". No evidence of any plan or improvement.

We will go nowhere other than backwards with this man in charge.

Massively dissapointed today. They are easily the best side in the league, great movement when attacking, great passing but we made it far too easy for them. Our midfield was completely outclassed from beginning to end, it was embarassing.

I really struggled to pick a man of the match because they were all awful except for the keeper who kept the score low.

I've got to say, what was that substitution at half time about? When I saw McGurk warming up I expected Robinson to be the one coming off not Akins. We were getting torn apart down the right because Buchanan was left on his own to do all the work and I thought he would provide the balance. We actually looked worse without Akins and had less creativity than before.

Showumni is still absolutely shocking. That miss regardless of whether he was offside or not was truly appauling. It says everything to me, he should not be playing because he cannot score and adds little else.

Also he needs to get the balance back, play either Baxter or Robinson not both of them because Robinson is ineffective on the left.

A truly awful showing today but I am hoping we can get our acts together and stop this slide.

Les states he does not know why the crowd boos echoed round Prenton Park at half time,yes M K Dons are a good team but let`s face it they(MK) never got out of second gear when they moved up field they moved as a unit they passed the ball around.
As for them only scoring two that`s all they had to do their centre halves could have had the day off as for our efforts it was non existence. Robbo tried even that free kick that hit the bar and it fell to Showunmi who was four yards out from an empty net all he could do was sky it well over I think it would have not counted because it was off side but when he hit it he did not know that.
We may be lacking in money for the squad but even when in the old Forth division when we had less funds(mobile generator to run the flood lights)and a team on the pitch with less skills than some of today`s team and such was the depth of the squad if some did not turn up the joke on the kop terrace`s bring your boots you might be needed.
But even then in the day`s before Peter Johnson and John King
started our climb up the tables one thing that team tried to put in was hard work and passion for the shirt something that was lacking today yes Les even if we get beat by the greatest
team in the world so long as those in white run the socks of for the shirt the crowd will respond to that even if the game ends in defeat.
Les tried to change it but what did he do Showunmi off Tiryaki on not a lot in that change but over all we were very poor lacking in ideas back to Les`s hoof ball that was one game I was glad to see to come to an end can not see us getting any thing from Stevenage and as for the Xmas period games in the past we have managed to spread the points out to our guests and we end up with a poor turn of results over the holiday period. So we need a real shake up or we will start the new year in the bottom eight.
A return of one point out of fifteen is not play off place material and it seems a long time since Oct 15th our last result that had some points reward.
I look forward to read Les`s comments in the Echo/Daily Post
on the game because it will seem different from the one I sat through today, some how can not see us going onwards and upwards today more like hanging on to the position in the league we find our selves today.

Injuries and a solid form team surely contributed, but there still needs to be more proactive thinking. I think 2 upfront needs to be considered, or get a fresh face in at Christmas.

Sometimes Les needs to change his thinking, because it is the same tactics every week and sometimes it can effectively and other times it doesn't, but he needs to address more than he did in the last 2 weeks.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Twelth on points
that so bad ! lost V Dons flying high ? do we need to be so negative !
we are the rovers

had time to calm down. but im still fuming. yes they are a good team. but we where rubbish. and les must take the blame. to ask why there where boos at half time. was he watching the same game. and i think most of them where aimed at him. why did he set up with are midfield holding hand with are centre halfs. why play baxter so deep. then hit long balls over him to enoch. Enoch was our only player in there half against 4 or 5 he had no chance. when he did get the ball down no one was anywhere near. and whats that about playing around at the back to much. everyone just hoofed the ball up the pitch not even looking where half the time. we have to start taking games to teams at home. not playing so negative. 4 4 2 would be great but i have more chance of getting megan fox for x mas.

Reality check? What are we going to say every time we lose........"Ah, yes, lets have a reality check, the other team have more money that us". The reality is that we have a Manager who is clueless, he has absolutely no idea what to do. He had ideas above his station of moving up to a Manager, which is obviously inept at. The football is awful and the attendances are starting to reflect this(albeit with other factors). We will struggle under him as there is no tactical nous ( Mind you they look fantastic in training, don't they Les?!).
Attendances will continue to fall until Management do something about this.

No if we lose over christmas to bury and rochdale then we should panic!

Losing to a team stringing 6-7 wins in a row without 4 first team players is not the time to panic!

A good run over christmas with 6 points from them 2 games and we can be right up in touch with the playoffs again which for the 1st half of the season would be a fantastic position.

Quote:

cadburygorilla
No if we lose over christmas to bury and rochdale then we should panic!
Losing to a team stringing 6-7 wins in a row without 4 first team players is not the time to panic!

A good run over christmas with 6 points from them 2 games and we can be right up in touch with the playoffs again which for the 1st half of the season would be a fantastic position.

Might agree with the above but a few things may stop us firstly we were@#$%&yesterday oh and as Les say`s we all ways turn it on against the *quote better teams* HEY LES WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY sorry Les we had no game plan playing against a team who moved like a unit who I do not think they went past second gear most of our so call attack plan was hoof ball to Enoch (billy no mates) who tried his best against their back line but most of the time the ball was back in MK Dons hands(or feet) and an other attack as a unit
began.
As for wins against Bury and Rochdale if we manage one win
it would be a miracle with our high scoring team . 9 goals at home in 11 games equals 0.818181 ratio per game over a 23 game season(at home games) this brings a grand total of 18.1818* goals for the whole season not quite attacking football that brings wins if you count away goals plus home goals this total stands at 20 for 20 games(10/12/2011) a ratio of one goal per game or a total of 46 for the whole season this high figure of 46 in the goals for total will not push you into the top eight more likely in the bottom six.
So Les it is time to go back to basics LIKE THROW YOUR GAME PLAN OUT OF THE WINDOW AND ATTACK in the next three or four games and see if that works before we run out of the season if it does not we can go back to putting up the shutters and grid out a safe position above the drop zone.

@gony and Cadburygorilla do you actually attend matches? Were you you there yesterday? If so,are you really telling me that you enjoy watching us play at the moment? I'm starting to think that people like you are either:

a. Les
b. One of the players

I know quite a few Rovers fans and don't know of any who are happy with what we are having to watch under Les. Attendances tell you all you need to know and I just hope that the board are starting to get the message.

I don't think anyone is saying they are happy to watch those performances, they are just being honest, like I was when I said Tranmere had 3-4 injuries and played a team with a 6 game streak.

That's not to say that having players like Goodison, Devaney and Raven would have made any serious impact, though you never know, but it's not great timing when you play a team that good. You probably hope if you get a few niggly injuries they happened when a Wycombe game was coming up.

Yes Tranmere could have played better, but the game is something to put behind them and concentrate on the next one.

Les need,s ot find more goals from somewhere though, as I thought the fact there were some goals and assists coming from different areas at the start of the season, would compensate, but I will no concur with some who thought that wouldn't be enough, as I now feel there is not quite enough edge up front.

THe encouraging thing is the chances created. Many games have 6,7,8 on target, but unless there is that extra 5% that makes a direct shot a goal, then goals won't come.

I'm still thinking about the possibility of putting Robbo behind the striker and using Baxter up front, as he is alledgedly a striker as well as a middle player, as I was lead to believe by the hype surrounding his initial loan, but maybe Les sees him differently in training.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

yes i attend every match/reserves/youth team game when i'm not working which is a lot this time of year thank you for your concern.


No i am not les or a player I am a REALISTIC fan who understands the limitations we are under. Moan about it all you want we are skint and struggling.

The problem we have is too many of our 'fans' expect us to play like barca etc... expect us to sign players like ryan lowe etc... un less you have a few million quid to throw in the pot we can't do that at the moment.

We pay what we can afford and as a result cannot get the quality players we need.

We are still in a good position in the league all things considered.

Personally I would rather watch us as we are this season than spend money we haven't got and do a portsmouth/chester etc... and be gone.

Good point.

It would be tempting to risk it all on a £5,000 a week loan capable of 20 a season, but that would just eventually make other players greedy and want bigger wages, because if you don't get promoted, they could site themselves as key reasons why the team did well, not just somne hot-shot rich loan and it wouldn't be clever if he left and the club stopped paying him about £3,500 a week above budget, only to find a potential £4,000-£6,000 or more of total squad wages, being demanded or risk losing good players.

Tranmere believe it or not have players like McChrystal, Buchanan, Fon-Williams and maybe Robbo have proven they could go elsewhere for 2 or more times the money, so the ability to buy some quality with the limitations, is evident, but it's about using quality not how much it costs.

Let's face it, any premier league club thinking of buying Shevchenko or Robinho would need their heads examined, so it's good ot see the quality coming in, because Tranmere are not struggling badly and can get form and no side capable of 3 wins in a row, should realistically go down, so I don't see that happening.

Currently 6 off the playoffs but 9 off relegation, so nearer to the top 6 than bottom 3.

Every game at a time is the key I think now, not necessarily telling the players to aim for 50-60% points per month, or whatever Les gives them as targets, to earn a day off, or a "treat", as he claims he does.

Until Tranmere get more money and at least enough to regularly pay players an average of another £500 a week, then any progress is better than none and the start of the season with that great 12 goals from 15 conceded and a consistent GD of above 0, was progress indeed, as was 3 straight victories.

Total so far, 20 games, 26 points -3 GD

Last season, 20 games, 22 points -9 GD

Considering Tranmere had serious long term injuries to Robbo, Devaney and Mcchrystal and very, very little more to spend on players, if at all and the loss of Jennings as well, to be 4 points better off and 6 up on goal difference, is admittedly not massive progress, but it's better than none and I'll take it right now.

I'm confident the team can find more form again as it was there before, so should be there again and hopefully soon.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

we didnt play that bad first half, they scored before HT which knocked the stuffing out of us.

Why is Les surprised when fans express their disappointment in a lacklustre performance, especially after a two week "break". My biggest disappointment is two fold. Firstly, our shooting is awful. We wouldn't be able to tell you how good most of the goalkeepers coming to PP are, because they have so few saves to make. Do any of the players spend time on the training ground? It doesn't look like it to me. Secondly, the return to "hoofball" as a way of keeping the opposition from scoring. It doesn't work, the ball goes straight to the opponenets who just come back at us.
Did our coaching staff look at MKD? The first thing I noticed (as they came on to the field) was how tall the back four were. So why oh why do we punt long balls into the box? Add in the fact that we don't have any one who can really head the ball and you see how pointless it is.
What about the kick off? A short ball to JW, who finds touch halfway into their half. Why don't we start by trying a few passes to each other? At goal kicks why do we have 20 players all in a huddle on one of the wings near the half way line? This was the sort of thing that our kids did when they played Cubs Football on a Saturday morning. Pulling the opposite winger wide would immediately create a little bit of space, or a player free to pass to if no opponent went to cover him. Why can't we string more than two or three passes together more than once in each game? Our midfield seem to resort to 40/50 yard bombs very quickly. The player on the other end of them isn't skillful enough to cope with them.
I look at the League Stats and I think Walsall are the only team who have as few goals as we have. Agreed we haven't conceeded as many, but shooting practice should be our top priority on the training ground. There's nothing like scoring a few goals to boost the confidence of both players and fans. Come on Les do something more positive during the game than count how many pebbles you can see in front of the dugout!!

if we are going to insist on playing hoofball then Enoch needs someone up there with him who will go toe to toe with the other centre back.
I really dont know what they are expecting enoch to do, 5% of the balls to him are to his feet the rest he has to chase down / fight against the 4 defenders. Its no wonder he looks so tired when he actually gets on the ball. If hoofball is plan B then we need to get Muzzy up there with him to fight for the ball. Its not how i want us to play, but if we have to hoof it, lets at least have two targets.

I am hoping that bringing Enoch off and replacing like for like with Muzzy was purely down to Enoch just coming back from injury. Really hope it was not Les' idea of a tactical change!!!

Also think Robinson is wasted on the Left. Baxter did about 4 things that showed a bit of class, but seems to lack the workrate / desire that Robinson shows when playing in the central position. Robison just did not see enough of the ball when stuck out wide.

Taylor/McCrystal had plenty of opportunities to play a short pass into centre mid or the full backs, but insisted on the hoof (Taylor more guilty than McCrystal). There were plenty of times that Kay was asking for the ball in space, but never got it. Whether they dont trust Kay on the ball, i dont know, but i would rather let him have it and at least try to build an attack down the wing rather than just hoof it to their centre backs.

Yes MK Dons were a decent side, but we were so poor with no ideas. I didnt give the players stick like people around me tended to do as i think that it is for the management to make the change in tactics and formation when you are 0-2 down. To keep it the same was awful. Would rather we tried something new/ had a go at something different and perhaps conceeded another, but at least have a go at getting a goal. When 0-2 down you need to gamble!!! So frustrating...

It seems most can see what is wrong with us at the moment, and to be honest its not rocket sceince. cadburygorilla I am not having the budget excuse wheeled out again, won't wash anymore. Most people agree that on paper we have a talented squad capable of a decent league position, and some decent attacking football.

Where is the progress? The home form is awful again, because of his rigid terrible system. We must be the easiest team to scout, 1 big man up front, the ball smacked in the corners for him to chase. I mean what we play is like rugby. Its like he is made up when we smash it into the corners, Enoch chases it and we win a throw. That means Akins can launch it in the box.

How anyone can defend the man is beyond me. His substituions continue to just be baffling. We are 2-0 down, their tall centre havles have been dealing with long balls all day. Maybe play someone up front with Enoch who is a bit nippy, keep the centre backs on their toes, go at them? Mcgurk? Oh no, tall target man off, another one on. RIDICULOUS.

Someone said Devaney was out. He was fit and ready but it was Les' decision not to play him. I know why as well. Les likes work horses on the wings, someone who will defend and just flick the ball on from a goal kick. Akins does that. Devaney is a good FOOTBALLER who likes to get the ball down and play. God forbid he may not track back as much, but we don't score any goals ever, he will offer us skill and flair.

I thought he had learned, but he hasn't at all. Nothing has changed. What is the point in having talented players like robbo and Baxter if they are bypassed by a massive hoof over the top, for a lone striker to chase and hope for a throw in. To be honest we could have Van Perise up front, isn't going to be much use if he is asked to chase aimless balls for 90 minutes.

It is a sad state of affairs that he will remain in charge while Peter Johnson is chairman. All he has to do is keep us up. No matter that the fans are subjected to absolute boredom every week. The attendances are getting worse, and they will continue to slide. We need a fresh approach, a new energy into the club. Les Parry is decent fella, but a decent manager he is not.

completely agree the budget excuse dont wash, we have a decent sqaud. it would be nice to have a manager using it better. i would like to see baxter or robbo up front with one of the big men. in a 4 4 2. stop the long ball and start passing to feet tho midfield. let players like robbo, baxter, weir get in the game. if devaney was not injured why was he not even on the bench. to change things if needed.

Technically Ricci the progress is 4 added points and -3 GD versus -9 GD.

Not much I know, but it's some. It could have been more but at least it's not worse than last season as of yet.

Hopefully things will pick up soon, but they need to find that spark that created 3 back to back wins.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

saturday was yet another poor performance second half we were shocking. but one thing i did notice was last year when we played them they were just as good but we had someone who need to players two mark him i.e dale jennings which i think if we maybe player akins and enoch in a 442 we may do better as it will cause problems we need to either play 433 with the to wide players actually getting involved or 442 because 451 isnt working

first half was ok we played quite well but only really created half chances 2nd half was back to the bad old days of the defence hoofing it and we were totally inept.

Les is to stuck in his ways to change the formation or tactics we are predictable and easy to play against at the moment and the subs he makes are equally predictable.

People need to take off their rose tinted glasses and watch what is happening on the pitch and stop using the budget as an excuse as it just doesnt wash.

the budget exchuse does wash i'm afraid as to quote mr benitez it is a FACT.......

Your telling me the budget isn't the reason we can't sign players like lowe/potter etc...???????

Also the 442 arguement is being wheeled out.

The current system is the right one for what we have in my opion but the attacking players don't get forward enough. (which could well be instructions)

4-2-3-1 gives us baxter and enoch through the middle with robbo/devaney etc... on the wings 4 attacking players.... at preston and our better performances these players actually did attack! That is what we are not doing now.

I've said a few times that my expectation was 10th and I still think we"ll finish there or thereabouts. Maybe higher if any of the expert Managers on here apply successfully for the job and put theory into practice ;0) I think Les is doing ok with the resources he has but I would actually like Ronnie back and les as assistant manager for a while. Is Ronnie still out of work?

Budget influences quality of players you can sign.

However budget doesn't influence the 100% effort I expect, the commitment, desire, and passion to win the game I expect from every player on a Saturday when they cross 'the white line'.

In comparison to other players in our league, some may not be best paid, however, does that excuse them from trying come 3pm Saturday?

Does it shoite. We pay our money to watch these, we pay their wages, by all means its the reason we can't sign Messi but forget quality - their wasn't even any effort on Saturday from 7 players at least. Completely unacceptable.

What is worse is the fact we pay a manager, a scout, and 2 coaches with UEFA licences - and whether it be them failing to notice this or Les's stubbornness (which wouldn't surprise me) - not one of them came up with a plan B. Not one of them could see that their centre backs where coming out wide - allowing their full-backs to push forward into space, and allowing one of their cm's to drop deep into a massive hole.

It was obvious from 20 mins into the game and the biggest disappointment is the manager had no tactical reaction to counteract this. Once we had conceded the referee may as well have blown for FT- their was simply no reaction from us. We had 1 (serious/real) chance all game and even that Enoch never managed to get on target.

As well as this it is quite clear Robbo's days as a winger are over. Either put him in the middle or take him out the starting XI. He was so influential in the middle pre-injury, but he offers very little imo as a winger! Got to choose one of him or Baxter imo, Les's system doesn't make space for both of them. (Maybe try Baxter on the wing?)

Budget plays a part, but budget means nothing when you don't even attempt to stop the opposition.

RE: Quality though. Aldo managed too pull of upsets with a lower budget. Now by no means am I trying to say we should beat every team with a bigger budget but it shouldn't be a thought come Saturday. We're in the same division. We should be able to give every team a reasonable game. PNE's budget is probably similar to MK's and we gave them a great game - away from home too!

We have failed to come from behind to win a game since Huddersfield away under RM - that is a horrendous stat - it just goes to prove we've no plan B at all. If we concede first we've basically lost.

Support at a football club is a two way thing. The fans can carry the players and the players can carry the fans.

After a good run of form our fans were superb at Scunny, Chesterfield etc etc when we were losing...... however having lost 6 games in 7 it is now up to the players to show some initiative and regenerate the passion from the crowd, its their responsibility now as ultimately they have been failing at their job for 5 weeks.

Just as it was looking as if Les was turning it around he's completely mucked it up. You can say form comes and goes but when you're 2-0 down is their any point in taking one striker off for another? You've nothing to lose ffs - it just stinks of tactical retardedness in ways. If he wants to start 4-5-1 that's his choice but at 2-0 down and nothing to lose with your system not working why continue to play in the same way when it is having no effect? Why not have a real go at trying to claw yourself back into the game?

I'd rather be beaten 3-0 having spent the last 15 minutes trying to score than be beaten 2-0 spending the last 15 mins trying to only lose by two goals!





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:13:23:48:32 by Mikey.

We have some good players in the squad but due to the tactics and formation they are not being used properly so no the budget is not the be all and end all.

Last season we had our worst home record in over 20 years results this season are now going the same way so how is the system working? Our poor home form and performances amongst other things have an impact on the size of our crowd and hence has an impact on our finances which need a big boost when you see the state the ground is now becoming.

When we go behind the only thing les does is to take off the central striker 1 wide man & usually robbie wier and brings on like for like so its predictable and easy to play against.

Mikey has totally summed it up better than I could. The guy does not have a clue about tactics or changing things. He sets the team up to be rugged and hard to play against. When we concede that is it, game over. How he can make like for like subs when you are losing is beyond me, I mean come on.

Should we all just accept that we have to pay to watch horrendous, negative football because of the budget then? That the manager can't make subs because of the budget? That he doesen't ever change the system because of the budget? The majority of Tranmere fans I speak to agree our squad is a decent one, certainly better than losing 6 out of 7 and being 15th in the league. We have better players than Stevenage. Why not go at them, play 2 up top, take the game to them instead of lumping into corners hoping for a free kick or throw in.

If we lose saturday, suddenly the Bury and Rochdale games are massive.

the tactics men are summerfield and john mcmahon as you will see when any instructions are being dished out.

I don't buy at all that there was 'no effort' the game plan we used to sit back and keep shape may give that impression as opposed to when we play pressing and close them down quickly (which i'd prefer to see us do)

Also whilst I accept that players do have to give fans something to sing about i'm sure if the crowd got behind them a bit more at home and gave them a lift you might see them make that extra run etc... (its got to be hard playing in an atmosphere like saturday)

Are we not using exactly the same formation, tactics and personnel as we did during the good spell where we got into a play-off position after winning at Hartlepool?

Therefore the players have to take a lot of the blame for the sudden change in fortunes do they not?

Les has the final say on tactics and he has played 4-5-1 from the beginning - even before Summerfield and McMahon were here. In fact he has come out before and said he tells McMahon/Summerfield the tactics he wants to use and they coach them too him.

The fault lies at Les for them A) Being wrong and For never changing and/or with McMahon/Summerfield for not effectively coaching them

Quite often said in the past on here Les' system is great away from home, it usually works tbf... but at Exeter when it wasn't their was no plan B, no change. I've always maintained it's wrong to use at home though and as a manager he must have one of the worst home records ever?

As for the poor atmosphere, ultimately though the atmosphere has been shaped in that way by the players. I said it was great when we first started losing, in fact at the end of our good run of form the atmosphere was starting to slowly, but surely creep back into our home matches. It's the players poor performances which are creating the atmosphere, as a fan and paying customer it's human nature to be annoyed having paid to watch that cr@p on Saturday!

As for lack of effort, there was a time on Saturday where the MK player passed it back to the GK. I knew, and everyone around me knew he couldn't pick that up, yet no one closed him down? Could have been a genuine scoring chance as the ball was in the air for a bit allowing our player to basically be at the 'keeper by the time it had dropped to his feet and no one chased it down?Not the only time their was a lack of effort but it's the stand out one!

What about Chadwicks shot in the 2nd half which Rachubka saved (great save!)? No one followed him, no one tracked him down, it's basic defending to track your man. These are professional footballers they know that - they just couldn't be bothered to do it. That is why people are annoyed, and frustrated.

As for players no one has said they don't take a share of responsibility - I've just provided two examples - but at 2-0 down it's not the players decision to take one striker off and replace him with another striker.

Think my point has been missed completely.

the formation may have worked previously in the season, but you can't expect it to work in every game. You must learn to adapt and change depending on how t he game is going. Maybe teams have just clicked that there are certain things we always do ie, 4-5-1, every kick off to the right wing etc and they know how to play against us.

In the words of Mike Bassett, 4-4 f***ing 2!

Quote:

Deadly Submarine
Are we not using exactly the same formation, tactics and personnel as we did during the good spell where we got into a play-off position after winning at Hartlepool?
Therefore the players have to take a lot of the blame for the sudden change in fortunes do they not?

agreed

When we were on our 'good run'.
The ball was preferably played on the deck.
We played a much higher line defending
we closed down, We stopped the opposition playing, We squeeezed the play.

On Saturday most of these tactics didn't happen.
We dropped so deep that we gave them space and time on the ball.
Panic defending from the back line hoofing the ball to no-one.
We didn't close. We didn't support Enoch. We played percentage football to use set pieces to create chances.

One other huge difference is in midfield is that Weir was getting forward to support Enoch, that does not happen now.
Welch is also cruising through games.
Midfield are not controlling games as they did.

We don't seem to get our full backs forward or overlapping any more.

We also were getting more players in the box in open play, we are NOT now.

That is why MK found us easier to play against.

These are the tactics that have changed, And because the confidence has dipped with the players injuries and poor form, then the more desperate Les will get. And the football will be replaced with anti-football tactics.

Another reason why we are on a poor run, is that the return of Robinson from injury, was at the same time. Coincidence, maybe?

We need a change in football styles (ie keeping the ball and giving the forward players a chance on the ball) It is not that difficult, they do it all the time in training.

Formations depend on who you are playing.

We play 4-5-1, this is a defensive formation, which we also attack as well, but can be versatile enough to be 4-3-3 when attacking with support from midfild and the full backs.

I can't see Les changing from these tactics.

I can see a relegation battle on the horizon.

Something needs to change, but I very much doubt it will!