Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
By Dave Moore
March 6 2022
A common maxim in football is that good teams don't suddenly morph into a bad team. Yet Rovers have shown a catastrophic loss of form and can't find a win for love nor money. What's gone wrong?
It wasn't supposed to be like this. Micky Mellon was meant to be the returning saviour, coming back to rescue Tranmere from mediocrity and indifferent performances. Unfortunately the script hasn't really been followed. Recent performances have been far from convincing. I never understood why people got so excited by the Swindon game, first half we were jittery and gave away loads of passes. The writing was already on the wall after the Forest Green game. We were outplayed and out performed by a team that looked like worthy Champions and one that will be comfortable in League 1. Mellon didn't make the right signings in January. He is over reliant on a central defender, Clarke, who is nearer to his 60th birthday than his 20th. Against Port Vale we dropped points because his innate conservatism had us holding on to a one goal lead rather than pressing forward for a second. The manager sends the team out to play in a particular way. He is accountable for bad results and Micky doesn't seem to have a Scooby about how to turn the current situation around.
Not that he is under pressure. Last time he went through this kind of loss of form Mark Palios said he was never going to sack him. The same is likely to be true now. Micky can sit with his feet firmly under the desk knowing that he has, effectively, got the job until he decides to go elsewhere. That happened last time, remember? Who's to say, come the summer, he won't find another team north of the border more attractive?
As for the team it's hard to say where its strengths lie. We saw that Jolley and Nevitt have the potential to make useful contributions, but they have been sidelined for Hemmings and, now that he is back from injury, Glatzell. Hemmings has ability, but I find him ponderous and blunt. Other players, like Morris, are being played out of position. Then there is the defence. I wouldn't mind seeing Davies and Knight-Percival given the opportunity to develop a partnership. Clarke is at the end of his career, if we want to look forward it may be time to bed in a new central defensive partnership. One of our problems appears to be that we go for the line of minimum resistance, playing Clarke is symptomatic of lazy thinking. He won't go on forever and don't think he should be first choice next season, even if we are still in this Division. In the midfield MacManaman looks like a luxury signing. Inconsistent and ill-disciplined he has failed to live up to his pre-season hype. Maguire has been good when he's been played, but he is rarely given a chance to show what he can offer. Jay Spearing has been sorely missed, but how come we ended up with so little cover.
A few weeks back everyone was saying how this team was so much better than the team we had last season. It looks like it's so much better that we may not even make the play offs. If somebody can explain how that works I'd be curious. Is it a better team but a worse manager?
There are 30 points left to play for, or there abouts. What was looking like an easy tasks has now become a big ask. The only thing that is guaranteed is that other teams are also likely to hit poor form. Let's hope we have got the gremlins out of our system. Somehow, though, I think between now and May is going to be very frustrating.
Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Total Tranmere (IP Logged)
Date: 06/03/2022 15:48
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Phil65 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/03/2022 17:32
Anyone who didn’t get excited by the Swindon game must have erectile dysfunction. Even as a non-smoker I had to turn over and have a cigarette at the end due to the intensity and immense satisfaction I experienced.
We’ve always been a work in progress project and I wouldn’t define us at any stage as a good or bad team; I’d define it as good days and bad days.
I’m also not into this knee-jerk reaction of writing players off, or managers for that matter, so easily.
Always disappointing when we lose, but it’s a tough league and even the “best” teams have had sticky patches. However hard it is, have your moans, which I always encourage, then move on; dwelling ain’t healthy.
Hope springs eternal with each new game, at least it does with me otherwise I wouldn’t bother.
Let’s hope Mansfield are over-confident on Friday and we turn them over to kick-start our own Renaissance.
We’ve always been a work in progress project and I wouldn’t define us at any stage as a good or bad team; I’d define it as good days and bad days.
I’m also not into this knee-jerk reaction of writing players off, or managers for that matter, so easily.
Always disappointing when we lose, but it’s a tough league and even the “best” teams have had sticky patches. However hard it is, have your moans, which I always encourage, then move on; dwelling ain’t healthy.
Hope springs eternal with each new game, at least it does with me otherwise I wouldn’t bother.
Let’s hope Mansfield are over-confident on Friday and we turn them over to kick-start our own Renaissance.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: the kav (IP Logged)
Date: 06/03/2022 18:48
It only takes one team to work out how to play against you and every other manager copies. I think we have been found out
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: EgoEgoEgo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/03/2022 19:43
Quote:the kav
It only takes one team to work out how to play against you and every other manager copies. I think we have been found out
+1
Onwards and Upwards!
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Pete SF (IP Logged)
Date: 06/03/2022 22:28
We need a major shake up at the end of the season. Clarke Is to old he has had a good career. It is sad we were in a good position at Christmas. Then the wheels fell off.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: LifesFullOfUpsAndDowns (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 08:41
On the bright side. The plan is to get to Wembley and the automatics don’t meet that ambition.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: mogsy73 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 10:21
7 wins on the bounce flattered us, and we probably deserved something more from our last 5/6 games - still confident we will get to the play offs if the crowd don't lose their minds
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bedfordave (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 12:10
Quote:Another shake up, why not try exactly what has caused our problems in recent seasons yet again. Clarke should be judged on what he does not what his age is, by 40 you have had people declaring you finished for at least 5 years. The fact is he makes the odd howler, none of which appear down to a physical weakness, Davies loses his man at least once a game and K-P gave two goals away after being out muscled on Saturday, whilst on his limited appearances he seems a poorer marker than Davies. Clarke with a limp is better than these two.Pete SF
We need a major shake up at the end of the season. Clarke Is to old he has had a good career. It is sad we were in a good position at Christmas. Then the wheels fell off.
Starting next season with brand new centre halves is far from ideal but almost inevitable, Clarke will call his own time they tend to, then we will be giving a head start to those with bedded in squads.
No doubt another defeat or two and some genius will want everyone sacking including the stewards.
Reading between the lines, the money that was running out before our escape from non-league will be a repeated situation next season if we don't go up. So one more throw of the dice?
IMO our best chance is to build next year on what we have which isn't that much but more than recent summers, throwing the baby out may well bring the Conference back onto the horizon not league one.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 19:56
Quote:bedfordaveQuote:Another shake up, why not try exactly what has caused our problems in recent seasons yet again. Clarke should be judged on what he does not what his age is, by 40 you have had people declaring you finished for at least 5 years. The fact is he makes the odd howler, none of which appear down to a physical weakness, Davies loses his man at least once a game and K-P gave two goals away after being out muscled onPete SF
We need a major shake up at the end of the season. Clarke Is to old he has had a good career. It is sad we were in a good position at Christmas. Then the wheels fell off.
Saturday, whilst on his limited appearances he seems a poorer marker than Davies. Clarke with a limp is better than these two.
Starting next season with brand new centre halves is far from ideal but almost inevitable, Clarke will call his own time they tend to, then we will be giving a head start to those with bedded in squads.
No doubt another defeat or two and some genius will want everyone sacking including the stewards.
Reading between the lines, the money that was running out before our escape from non-league will be a repeated situation next season if we don't go up. So one more throw of the dice?
IMO our best chance is to build next year on what we have which isn't that much but more than recent summers, throwing the baby out may well bring the Conference back onto the horizon not league one.
To be fair to your son, he makes more than the odd mistake, in 2 games he scored once and had one assist for the other side, even on Saturday he had two air kicks in the first half! Judging him on what he does and not his age, well I'm sorry Mrs Clark your lads an aged past it centre half, who needs to go out gracefully.
But otherwise I agree we don't need another rebuild
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:07:19:56:56 by Bored rover.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Zint (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 22:24
If we don’t get promotion it suggests that the squad assembled isn’t good enough. If the squad assembled isn’t good enough it needs a rethink and probably a rebuild. It’s not clear who or what this team is built around, instead it’s been glued together based upon what’s available not what’s needed. There may be elements of the squad that you would retain. Hemmings and Hawkes, for example. There are some who may not decide to stay, such as Morris, and there are some who have only ever been marginal.
Stability is often absent in teams at this level, but that’s no excuse for having a clear structure and system around which you build your team.
Stability is often absent in teams at this level, but that’s no excuse for having a clear structure and system around which you build your team.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/03/2022 23:14
Quote:Zint
There are some who may not decide to stay, such as Morris, and there are some who have only ever been marginal.
To be honest all teams have them, because reality is your first team isn't allowed 25 players in it .
I wonder if that was allowed wether Micky Mellon would go 8-8-8, 9-7-8, or pack the midfield and go 8-10-7
.Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: stek26 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 09:37
Similar to last season, when we had a solid spine we done well. Losing Vaughan & his goals last season I believe killed our chances of automatics, I believe the same can be said of losing Spearing. Although this time it is losing the protection he offers, leadership and ability to control games.
A month ago, we had the best defence in the league , now that is crumbling which has coincided with Jays absence.
On the whole, our performances & results against the sides in the top 10 have been poor, we simply don’t deserve to be in the top 3 and will struggle for play offs.
We’ve had a few decent away draws (FG, Swindon, BR, PV) but we’re certainly not the better side. The only 2 decent displays were against Exeter - solid away performance were we had to dig in and at home Vs Swindon, although if you look at their line up that night they had half a team missing including key players that had got them into autos - I also credit that victory to Nate, it was a special night.
We have been well beaten by FG, both Newport & Northampton have convincingly beat us/both taken 6 points and Mansfield also taught us a lesson.
I predict FG, Northampton, Newport, Mansfield will all finish above us and they deserve it, they are better teams. Exeter, given their games in hand will likely finish above us. The best I am hoping for is to finish 6th/7th.
I can’t see it but if we are to have any chance of the autos I would say we need to win a min of 7 games out the remaining 11 and absolutely need to beat the teams in/ around us - Mansfield, Sutton, BR, Exeter.
A month ago, we had the best defence in the league , now that is crumbling which has coincided with Jays absence.
On the whole, our performances & results against the sides in the top 10 have been poor, we simply don’t deserve to be in the top 3 and will struggle for play offs.
We’ve had a few decent away draws (FG, Swindon, BR, PV) but we’re certainly not the better side. The only 2 decent displays were against Exeter - solid away performance were we had to dig in and at home Vs Swindon, although if you look at their line up that night they had half a team missing including key players that had got them into autos - I also credit that victory to Nate, it was a special night.
We have been well beaten by FG, both Newport & Northampton have convincingly beat us/both taken 6 points and Mansfield also taught us a lesson.
I predict FG, Northampton, Newport, Mansfield will all finish above us and they deserve it, they are better teams. Exeter, given their games in hand will likely finish above us. The best I am hoping for is to finish 6th/7th.
I can’t see it but if we are to have any chance of the autos I would say we need to win a min of 7 games out the remaining 11 and absolutely need to beat the teams in/ around us - Mansfield, Sutton, BR, Exeter.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Gilbert's Fridge (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 10:19
Our current situation reminds me of the 1977-78 season. On the 3rd February (1978), even after a defeat to Cambridge that day, we were top of Division 3 after 31 games. After that, we only managed to win 2 more games and finished 11th!!
I hope history doesn't repeat itself and we end up mid-table.
I hope history doesn't repeat itself and we end up mid-table.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bedfordave (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 11:20
The next year we went down, sacked Kingy on arrival in Div 4 and stayed down for ten years.
That equates to sacking Mellon at some point and staying in the conference for ten years; people should be careful what they wish for.
1977 was an exceptional period though, a very thin squad that had an unchanged team for 28 matches?
That equates to sacking Mellon at some point and staying in the conference for ten years; people should be careful what they wish for.
1977 was an exceptional period though, a very thin squad that had an unchanged team for 28 matches?
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: mogsy73 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 18:58
Quote:stek26
Similar to last season, when we had a solid spine we done well. Losing Vaughan & his goals last season I believe killed our chances of automatics, I believe the same can be said of losing Spearing. Although this time it is losing the protection he offers, leadership and ability to control games.
A month ago, we had the best defence in the league , now that is crumbling which has coincided with Jays absence.
On the whole, our performances & results against the sides in the top 10 have been poor, we simply don’t deserve to be in the top 3 and will struggle for play offs.
We’ve had a few decent away draws (FG, Swindon, BR, PV) but we’re certainly not the better side. The only 2 decent displays were against Exeter - solid away performance were we had to dig in and at home Vs Swindon, although if you look at their line up that night they had half a team missing including key players that had got them into autos - I also credit that victory to Nate, it was a special night.
We have been well beaten by FG, both Newport & Northampton have convincingly beat us/both taken 6 points and Mansfield also taught us a lesson.
I predict FG, Northampton, Newport, Mansfield will all finish above us and they deserve it, they are better teams. Exeter, given their games in hand will likely finish above us. The best I am hoping for is to finish 6th/7th.
I can’t see it but if we are to have any chance of the autos I would say we need to win a min of 7 games out the remaining 11 and absolutely need to beat the teams in/ around us - Mansfield, Sutton, BR, Exeter.
An unbiased and rational analysis. You're probably on the wrong forum.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: LifesFullOfUpsAndDowns (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 19:54
There is no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. What is needed is stability. If Tranmere can keep most of the players whilst disposing of those who don’t fit Micky’s way of playing. And replacing with his type of player then I think next season will be better. I am not convinced promotion would be a good thing until we have a team that is dominant in this league. FGR have taken a few seasons. It’s not the end of the world if Tranmere do not get promoted this season. It is definitely a work in progress situation. I just hope Micky can find a way of getting the team to score a few goals regularly…
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: pc1968 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 21:10
After relegation in May 79 I think Johnny King was in place for all of 79/80 and part of 80/81 ….he wasn’t quite sacked on arrival in Div 4
As regards changing managers I don’t know if anyone heard Mark Palios on Radio Merseyside about 6.30 tonight ….he did of course express disappointment at recent results but seemed to have full confidence in Micky
As regards changing managers I don’t know if anyone heard Mark Palios on Radio Merseyside about 6.30 tonight ….he did of course express disappointment at recent results but seemed to have full confidence in Micky
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bheadlad (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 21:14
Quote:Is there a link pleasepc1968
After relegation in May 79 I think Johnny King was in place for all of 79/80 and part of 80/81 ….he wasn’t quite sacked on arrival in Div 4
As regards changing managers I don’t know if anyone heard Mark Palios on Radio Merseyside about 6.30 tonight ….he did of course express disappointment at recent results but seemed to have full confidence in Micky
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: pc1968 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 21:46
Just go to the radio Merseyside website
Then highlights
james Mountford show 8 March. 6 to 7pm
interview with Mark starts at 38 minutes ….ie 6.38pm
Hope that helps
Then highlights
james Mountford show 8 March. 6 to 7pm
interview with Mark starts at 38 minutes ….ie 6.38pm
Hope that helps
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Matt34 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 23:08
Johnny King got a bit of help off Shankley after Shanks retired from the Liverpool job. He even tried to persuade King to leave Tranmere and go after a vacant position at Sheffield Wednesday, as they were a bigger club and Shankley thought King had enough ability to make the step up.
King never tried to hussle for the job and when Shankley wanted to know why; King didn't made out that he believed of himself that he did not have enough of the right stuff to be successful there.
Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.
King never tried to hussle for the job and when Shankley wanted to know why; King didn't made out that he believed of himself that he did not have enough of the right stuff to be successful there.
Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bheadlad (IP Logged)
Date: 08/03/2022 23:24
Quote:cheers and thank youpc1968
Just go to the radio Merseyside website
Then highlights
james Mountford show 8 March. 6 to 7pm
interview with Mark starts at 38 minutes ….ie 6.38pm
Hope that helps
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bedfordave (IP Logged)
Date: 09/03/2022 06:48
Quote:You are right I have had a complete season removed from my memory. Kingy had a season and a few weeks after relegation. Although I wasn't against the change, the idea an established manager could even survive a drop nowadays is fantasy, when you consider how his team was broken up what did we expect? History shows it did improve things.pc1968
After relegation in May 79 I think Johnny King was in place for all of 79/80 and part of 80/81 ….he wasn’t quite sacked on arrival in Div 4
As regards changing managers I don’t know if anyone heard Mark Palios on Radio Merseyside about 6.30 tonight ….he did of course express disappointment at recent results but seemed to have full confidence in Micky
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: bedfordave (IP Logged)
Date: 09/03/2022 07:19
Quote:Shankly helped Yeats first and then Kingy after he succeeded at PP. Sheff Wed like many clubs viewed Shanks as a bit of godfather of the game and asked who they should appoint as manager. They had reached the bottom of Div 3 briefly, Kingy was the answer but he claimed, 'It wasn't the right time' and his reluctance was enough to scupper the plan. Even then Jack Charlton was an easier appointment for the public.Matt34
Johnny King got a bit of help off Shankley after Shanks retired from the Liverpool job. He even tried to persuade King to leave Tranmere and go after a vacant position at Sheffield Wednesday, as they were a bigger club and Shankley thought King had enough ability to make the step up.
King never tried to hussle for the job and when Shankley wanted to know why; King didn't made out that he believed of himself that he did not have enough of the right stuff to be successful there.
For all the fear over his back seat driving, there is no doubt he had a very positive effect on Kingy, who I think you suggest may have had a confidence problem- probably correctly. Which is ironic as Paisley was the original shrinking violet although he turned out alright in the end, probably carried by the Shanks dressing room initially.
Different times, one Kingy trend that may not have travelled across the Pennines well, was his attachment to local players he knew well and the youth tree.
His fallout wasn't about his own plight but our treatment of Ronnie and Ray who he saw as the future management team, I think he was spot on.
Re: Good teams don’t become bad overnight, or do they?
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 09/03/2022 21:22
Quote:pc1968
After relegation in May 79 I think Johnny King was in place for all of 79/80 and part of 80/81 ….he wasn’t quite sacked on arrival in Div 4
As regards changing managers I don’t know if anyone heard Mark Palios on Radio Merseyside about 6.30 tonight ….he did of course express disappointment at recent results but seemed to have full confidence in Micky
The Old vote of confidence then eh.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.