Crisis, what crisis?

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"For many fans returning to the National League would not be such a bad thing"

What?

Also, I would define a crises as "crisis"

Quote:

dave-p
"For many fans returning to the National League would not be such a bad thing"
What?

+1....never in a billion years to we want to be down there again...Don't care if last time when we were down there fans liked the quaint little grounds in idyllic settings that they had never visited before, the friendliness of the home fans, the nice little boozers near the away end and the fact that you could walk around the ground and change ends at half-time..bollox to all that,. footy league survival is critically vital.

If Nigel stays and does not improve his form or lose it, we will end up on 50 points. History shows clubs that have an early season crisis tend to recover. The Adams debacle emerged at a very wrong time.

Quote:

dave-p
"For many fans returning to the National League would not be such a bad thing"
What?

Well at least we won a few games in the National League and for the most part were looking up to the stars not down to the gutter.

if we ever dropped down there again, i reckon it would take us a helluva lot longer than the 3 years it took us to get back up again last time...That NL gets tougher n tougher with each passing season, who would want to invest in us? unless two Hollywood thespians stepped in with sheds load of money!..The only possible saving grace would be if they were to go ahead with two automatic promotion places, but even then it would still be a big big task to get back up again.

It would be certainly be a bad thing going back to the national league ….very bad

I have it on good authority that if we hadn’t won that game against Boreham Wood there would have been financial cuts redundancies a smaller squad possible sponsors ending their link with the club a section of the ground closing etc etc
It would have been very difficult to mount a 4th challenge to get back to league 2
We might still be in the National League now ..or worse
Wrexham had a huge cash injection and still failed in 21/22

We simply have to stay in league 2

I think someone referenced we have 32 players ?
If that’s correct surely too many ?
Look at the back of the match programmes over the last few seasons
Our squad is on most occasions bigger than our opponents sometimes considerably bigger
( yes I know there are one or two names who are actually supporters with high squad numbers but even so )
There are always injuries and of course you need more than 11 but surely 32 is far too many and the policy simply isn’t working
I think we got through over 40 players in season 14/15 and we all know how that ended

I don’t agree with needing cover for “ loss of form “
Good players might make mistakes and miss the odd sitter but they don’t “ lose form”
Did the likes of muir Aldridge nevin morrisey Higgins mcgreal vickers mcnab Thomas Harvey lose form ?
Some higher level players there but think of mcnulty spearing Norwood Jeff Hughes Andy cook ..if you are good at what you do you don’t lose it …maybe the odd “quiet “ game but that’s it
We need quality over quantity

You also have the benefit of a consistent team and shape and better understanding

correct me if i am wrong, but hasn't there been talk of the EFL possibly changing from 72 teams to 80 teams, and changing from 3 divisions to 4 divisions,,having 4 divisions with 20 teams in each..similar to making half the NL becoming like a 5th footy league division...so if we did go down we would still be in the footy league lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:15:17:24:31 by hong kong rover.

Quote:

pc1968
It would be certainly be a bad thing going back to the national league ….very bad
I have it on good authority that if we hadn’t won that game against Boreham Wood there would have been financial cuts redundancies a smaller squad possible sponsors ending their link with the club a section of the ground closing etc etc
It would have been very difficult to mount a 4th challenge to get back to league 2
We might still be in the National League now ..or worse
Wrexham had a huge cash injection and still failed in 21/22

We simply have to stay in league 2

I think someone referenced we have 32 players ?
If that’s correct surely too many ?
Look at the back of the match programmes over the last few seasons
Our squad is on most occasions bigger than our opponents sometimes considerably bigger
( yes I know there are one or two names who are actually supporters with high squad numbers but even so )
There are always injuries and of course you need more than 11 but surely 32 is far too many and the policy simply isn’t working
I think we got through over 40 players in season 14/15 and we all know how that ended

I don’t agree with needing cover for “ loss of form “
Good players might make mistakes and miss the odd sitter but they don’t “ lose form”
Did the likes of muir Aldridge nevin morrisey Higgins mcgreal vickers mcnab Thomas Harvey lose form ?
Some higher level players there but think of mcnulty spearing Norwood Jeff Hughes Andy cook ..if you are good at what you do you don’t lose it …maybe the odd “quiet “ game but that’s it
We need quality over quantity

You also have the benefit of a consistent team and shape and better understanding

Agree with this, we need far less players on more money, 6/7/8 really good league 1/Championship standard players in a squad of 20/21 players supported by a couple of young kids with potential and a few lads at the back end of their career looking for a pay day or opportunity to work towards badges.

I've Always said quality over quantity, but it seems that every year we go for the quantity option. SWA

The redundancy went ahead anyway when covid happened.
The budget was reduced, lots of cuts anyway!
The club needed to survive league one
But didnt, hence the owners actions over PPG.

The ground is always the main issue for anyone buying the club.
Even Rogers knew this.

And if we were relegated again, God forbid. The club would be neck deep in the mire!
Everyone is praying for the club to break the bank in January to get some decent players in!
Can't believe that, it would go against club policy on a lot of levels.

I hope I'm wrong, but the answer could be, they haven't got an answer!
Mind you, I don't even believe they know the question.

Quote:

Ingleboro08
I hope I'm wrong, but the answer could be, they haven't got an answer!
Mind you, I don't even believe they know the question.

Says the bloke who’s always claiming we should rack up debt but never has an answer to the question about where this debt should - or even possibly can - come from.

Even now you’re telling us “everyone is praying for the club to break the bank”. Well, the bank isn’t for starters! And I doubt any potential investor is either.

Or maybe you genuinely do think living outside your means is the solution to problems. If so, heaven help your credit card!

Why is it that I'm claiming to rack up the debt?
I have never believed that.
However, the extent of debt over the ownership is around £1m a season even though we are living within our means.
I have always said the club is untenable and needs investment if we are to be competive.
The problem is, we haven't got what other comparable league and non league clubs have got.
And in modern professional football, you unfortunately, have to have large investment.

Haven't you heard, we are rag @#$%& rovers and not a pot to @#$%& in!

Quote:

Ingleboro08
I have always said the club is untenable and needs investment if we are to be competive.

Which is why your nemesis Palios trying to make the club investible. But you don't like him doing that. Even though it’s already brought in a few million from the Indonesians.

Besides them, who else in the entire history of this club has invested anything substantial? Only PJ. And he only appeared when the club was at death’s door - an act of sympathy more than anything else - and, even then, he ended up losing a small fortune by the end of it.

You simply cannot attract ANY suitable potential investor without making the club investible. On the flip side, running it down or racking up debt risks attracting very UNsuitable investors (as PJ himself can testify). Thankfully the balance sheet year on year has been heading in the right direction in that regard. That shouldn’t come as any surprise, seeing as the owner has quite a track record doing exactly that.

In the meantime, of course, balance sheets don’t win football matches. Some poor decisions rather than lack of investment are why we are where we are in the table.

Quote:

Ingleboro08
Haven't you heard, we are rag @#$%& rovers and not a pot to @#$%& in!

Heard it many times, but always from people who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about and, naturally, can never back up such nonsense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:15:22:18:42 by XFA.

Quote:

Ingleboro08
Why is it that I'm claiming to rack up the debt?
I have never believed that.
However, the extent of debt over the ownership is around £1m a season even though we are living within our means.
I have always said the club is untenable and needs investment if we are to be competive.
The problem is, we haven't got what other comparable league and non league clubs have got.
And in modern professional football, you unfortunately, have to have large investment.

Haven't you heard, we are rag @#$%& rovers and not a pot to @#$%& in!

So your point is someone, completely unidentified, should give us some money. I reckon most of us could make the same ludicrous argument about our household finances.
Someone needs to give TRFC some money- genius stuff this.

🤣
Not only that, they should give us some money for no apparent reason other than we want it!

You know how to become a millionaire
Start off as a multi millionaire and buy a 4th tier football club

I do not have to quantify my opinion.
How is my nemesis, going to keep us in the football league by not getting investment?

As I keep repeating, in modern professional football at this level, we need investment to be competitive and not be in this situation. A sugar daddy!

Slag me off as much as like, but the current financial situation could, I didn't say will, see us lose our league status, which realistically, will be the worst possible scenario.

Something is not right about how the club is getting a league two standard of players and indeed management appointments that has given the relegation possibilities of our current situation.
And I am expressing my concerns that I don't believe that the current owners are unable to do anything about, mainly because of the decisions made, since covid, and the subsequent decisions made that has led to this.
If you don't believe there is a problem, and the owners can get the finances required to get us where the owners keep telling us we are. Then, I hope we are still in the league in the coming seasons.
I only want the best for the club I have supported since 1968.

Quote:

As I keep repeating, in modern professional football at this level, we need investment to be competitive and not be in this situation. A sugar daddy!

Our budget doesn't reflect our league position though.

If we go down, it won't be down to the budget. It will be down to spending it in the wrong way (and the appointment of the wrong manager).

I think we've used 26 players in the league so far this season and you don't assemble that size of squad without spending a fair amount of money.

Quote:

Ingleboro08
I do not have to quantify my opinion.
How is my nemesis, going to keep us in the football league by not getting investment?

As I keep repeating, in modern professional football at this level, we need investment to be competitive and not be in this situation. A sugar daddy!

Slag me off as much as like, but the current financial situation could, I didn't say will, see us lose our league status, which realistically, will be the worst possible scenario.

Something is not right about how the club is getting a league two standard of players and indeed management appointments that has given the relegation possibilities of our current situation.
And I am expressing my concerns that I don't believe that the current owners are unable to do anything about, mainly because of the decisions made, since covid, and the subsequent decisions made that has led to this.
If you don't believe there is a problem, and the owners can get the finances required to get us where the owners keep telling us we are. Then, I hope we are still in the league in the coming seasons.
I only want the best for the club I have supported since 1968.

Stop getting all haughty and defensive. And spare us the cloying long service award, as if that confers any kind of entitlement.

You want investment but, even though for some reason you don’t like the steps being taken to make the club investible, you repeatedly fail to come up with any alternative approach (incidentally, neither do the Trust or the Supporters Club, but they don’t moan about the efforts made to make the club investible, so presumably they’re not dissatisfied about that?)

Perhaps, therefore, you think that simply being a L2 football club should, in itself, be a magnet for the wealthy to come and fritter their money for your enjoyment? If so, dream on. You want a sugar daddy, and you seem mightily annoyed that you’re not being given one!!

The independently audited financial statements, the chairman’s explanations of where the budget is, and the names in the squad list alone scream loud and clear that the oft repeated fallacy about “not having a pot to @#$%& in” is just that - a fallacy. Repeated ad nauseam by those who don’t know what they’re talking about but who get some weird kick out of needlessly trashing the club and/or the owners.

Again - it is not lack of investment why we have been so uncompetitive this season, it is some poor decision making, mostly over recruitment, and especially the disastrous appointment of the previous manager. Relative to current levels of investment, we are underperforming.

As for aspirations to climb the leagues then yes, further investment is undoubtedly needed. That’s never been a secret, and Palios himself has acknowledged it many times. Which gets back to the initial point about making a perennial lower league football club with limited potential somehow attractable to seriously wealthy external investors. In the entire history of this club nobody has cracked that, except when we were in last chance saloon; only time will tell if Palios can.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:16:14:57:29 by XFA.

Quote:

XFA

Quote:

Ingleboro08
I do not have to quantify my opinion.
How is my nemesis, going to keep us in the football league by not getting investment?

As I keep repeating, in modern professional football at this level, we need investment to be competitive and not be in this situation. A sugar daddy!

Slag me off as much as like, but the current financial situation could, I didn't say will, see us lose our league status, which realistically, will be the worst possible scenario.

Something is not right about how the club is getting a league two standard of players and indeed management appointments that has given the relegation possibilities of our current situation.
And I am expressing my concerns that I don't believe that the current owners are unable to do anything about, mainly because of the decisions made, since covid, and the subsequent decisions made that has led to this.
If you don't believe there is a problem, and the owners can get the finances required to get us where the owners keep telling us we are. Then, I hope we are still in the league in the coming seasons.
I only want the best for the club I have supported since 1968.

Stop getting all haughty and defensive. And spare us the cloyingly sickening long service award, as if that alone confers any kind of entitlement.

You want investment but, even though for some reason you don’t like the steps being taken to make the club investible, you repeatedly fail to come up with any alternative approach to attract investment (incidentally, neither do the Trust or the Supporters Club, but they don’t moan about the efforts made to make the club investible, so presumably they’re not dissatisfied about that?)

Perhaps, therefore, you think that simply being a L2 football club is, in itself, a magnet for the wealthy to come and fritter their money for your enjoyment? If so, dream on. You want a sugar daddy, and you seem mightily annoyed that you’re not being given one!!

The independently audited financial statements, the chairman’s explanations of where the budget is, and the names in the squad list alone scream loud and clear that the oft repeated fallacy about “not having a pot to @#$%& in” is just that - a fallacy. Repeated ad nauseam by those who don’t know what they’re talking about and who get some weird kick out of needlessly trashing the club and/or the owners.

Again - it is not lack of investment why we have been so uncompetitive this season, it is some poor decision making, mostly over recruitment, and especially the disastrous appointment of the previous manager.

As for aspirations to climb the leagues then yes, further investment is undoubtedly needed. That’s never been a secret, and Palios himself has acknowledged it many times. Which gets back to the initial point about making a perennial lower league football club with limited potential somehow attractable to external investors.

400,000 on Wirral peninsula. That's quite a potential. We just have to tear them away with bigger rivals from a neighbouring town or city, like Bradford City have successfully done.

😆
Thank heavens the club isn’t fan owned!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:16:14:52:56 by XFA.

We can always hope those 2 Bebington brothers at Castore keep on adding more sports teams and sports stars to there already impressive list, accumulate tons n tons of wealth and then squander it all by pumping it into TRFC!

If they do it’ll be testament to the work done to make the club investible. That is, years of beefing up infrastructure and cutting out waste, while - barring the current blip - keeping a competitive team on the pitch.

I expect Ingleboro to lead the tributes to the Paliosi when that happens! 😆

Agree with this, we need far less players on more money, 6/7/8 really good league 1/Championship standard players in a squad of 20/21 players supported by a couple of young kids with potential and a few lads at the back end of their career looking for a pay day or opportunity to work towards badges.[/quote]

But exactly who would want to play at the bottom of league 2 if they are a good league 1 or championship player.

We need to be realistic, you need good league 2 players who can get you promoted then hope you survive the following year whilst you try get get good league 1 players to join the party

[quote AndyMase]Agree with this, we need far less players on more money, 6/7/8 really good league 1/Championship standard players in a squad of 20/21 players supported by a couple of young kids with potential and a few lads at the back end of their career looking for a pay day or opportunity to work towards badges.[/quote]

But exactly who would want to play at the bottom of league 2 if they are a good league 1 or championship player.

We need to be realistic, you need good league 2 players who can get you promoted then hope you survive the following year whilst you try get get good league 1 players to join the party[/quote]

looking at your last paragraph, isnt that what we have done this season, sign good league 2 players that have had recent promotion experince with other clubs that can get you up! eg Dennis, Norris, MCGee etc, but we could be getting us relegated...i dont get to see the Rovers and i just go on this forum to see all the comments from other members that go to the games and read their comments,,as far as i can see, we lost our 2 best players in the summer, both our full/wing backs and they havent been adequately replaced , and our central defenders seem suspect..under Brabin and Mellon we were always pretty sound defensively..it seems as if so many of our problems are at the back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:16:14:16:51 by hong kong rover.

Quote:

hong kong rover
We can always hope those 2 Bebington brothers at Castore keep on adding more sports teams and sports stars to there already impressive list, accumulate tons n tons of wealth and then squander it all by pumping it into TRFC!

I think they would be a perfect fit ..
A Sports based company worth north of £1bn ..
One of the brothers was even on Tranmere’s books as a teenager..
Hope there is some truth in the rumours ..

Quote:

johnoshackers

Quote:

hong kong rover
We can always hope those 2 Bebington brothers at Castore keep on adding more sports teams and sports stars to there already impressive list, accumulate tons n tons of wealth and then squander it all by pumping it into TRFC!

I think they would be a perfect fit ..
A Sports based company worth north of £1bn ..
One of the brothers was even on Tranmere’s books as a teenager..
Hope there is some truth in the rumours ..

exactly, it could be a really good marriage if it ever were to happen, invest wisely, don't go mad, common sense, spend the money carefully...could be a good future for us.

Quote:

hong kong rover

Quote:

johnoshackers

Quote:

hong kong rover
We can always hope those 2 Bebington brothers at Castore keep on adding more sports teams and sports stars to there already impressive list, accumulate tons n tons of wealth and then squander it all by pumping it into TRFC!

I think they would be a perfect fit ..
A Sports based company worth north of £1bn ..
One of the brothers was even on Tranmere’s books as a teenager..
Hope there is some truth in the rumours ..

exactly, it could be a really good marriage if it ever were to happen, invest wisely, don't go mad, common sense, spend the money carefully...could be a good future for us.

I’m no business expert but I reckon £10M would be massive for a club of our size and surely an amount easily absorbed by the Castore brothers..
Let’s see what happens..!!!

Quote:

hong kong rover

looking at your last paragraph, isnt that what we have done this season, sign good league 2 players that have had recent promotion experince with other clubs that can get you up! eg Dennis, Norris, MCGee etc, but we could be getting us relegated...i dont get to see the Rovers and i just go on this forum to see all the comments from other members that go to the games and read their comments,,as far as i can see, we lost our 2 best players in the summer, both our full/wing backs and they havent been adequately replaced , and our central defenders seem suspect..under Brabin and Mellon we were always pretty sound defensively..it seems as if so many of our problems are at the back.

A good point and I also think we were extremely fortunate last season that Cogley and Bristow started every single league game for us.

We have used a revolving door of players in the full back positions so far, and we can only hope that we find some stability at some stage this season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:17:11:30:46 by Nicko1234.

Quote:

XFA
If they do it’ll be testament to the work done to make the club investible. That is, years of beefing up infrastructure and cutting out waste, while - barring the current blip - keeping a competitive team on the pitch.
I expect Ingleboro to lead the tributes to the Paliosi when that happens! 😆

I'm sorry, that will never happen!

Apparently they were in the Directors' Box the other day. It's probably not going to happen, because we're Tranmere and we deserve some kind of eternal punishment or something, but it's not impossible.

It is no rumour that from next season, they will be kit suppliers and business partners.
How that pans out depends on what the arrangement is And how the partnership develops.
I do think that it's a bit early to predict the future arrangement, the recent share issue, the level of how much influence they would want, and if they are truly interested in the club, it will develop when either of both become board members of make an offer.
Otherwise it is just speculation.
But I hope so!