It’s time we talked about relegation
Rovers crest
By David Sindall
January 28 2025
It may only be January, nothing is yet a foregone conclusion, but it would be either the most optimistic of supporters or the most naive who didn’t think we were in a battle against relegation. Gone is the optimism of the summer, this is now about grinding out results in the hope that we can pick up another 22-24 points and avoid the drop. 8 wins in a season where wins have been as rare as tasty pies.
Relegation would be different this time. For the first season we would retain 100% of the revenues given to us by the EFL. That will help, but it’s only for a year. Gates and season ticket sales would drop and I suspect we would be looking at average attendances nearer to 4500. This having been said there are possible local clashes involving Oldham, Rochdale and Chester, which might boost attendances a little. However we would likely get much less media coverage, no more easy access to games on Sky. There is a TNT contract but this doesn’t have the same reach.
Putting aside concerns about our squad, there are also teams we would be up against. We would likely be one of 12 former Football League clubs battling for one of two promotion spots, only one automatic. Nothing has been decided yet but we would be up against clubs like Oldham, Rochdale, Hartlepool, Halifax and quite likely our local neighbours Chester. It’s easy to see the National League as a Phoenix League, it also bares an uncanny resemblance to an Elephants graveyard. Clubs like Yeovil and Southend may be a clearer indication of our future, or even Scunthorpe?
Some supporters have a nostalgia for our National League days. Not me. Yes, there was a novelty in visiting places like Eastleigh or Dover (I lived in the South at the time), but it often felt like being the only vegetarian at a butcher’s convention. Some of the grounds were like visiting the Bebington Oval. It’s an experience I don’t wan’t to repeat.
Nobody is sure either where a change in League status would leave the sale of the club? Would we be viewed as the new Wrexham with massive media interest or as the new Southend, greeted by indifference and disinterest by broadcasters and the print media. Would the rumoured Amazon series be made, or would it be a case of 'nothing new to see here' and the proposed fly on the wall documentary would be like one of those Alan Partridge ideas for TV shows? If it were me buying the club I wouldn't want to pay the same price. I doubt that multi-millionaire consortiums are any less shrewd, we shall see.
Then there is the team. It would need a total rebuild. What little talent we have is likely to move on. There is a view that we would struggle with the current players. Nigel Adkins would still have two years of his contract remaining, could we afford to sack him, or would he be given a chance to win promotion? Either way we are likely to need a rebuild the like of which we haven't seen since? Well, since the last time we dropped into the abyss.
It shouldn’t have been like this, but it is. Our current Chairman thinks we would get back into the EFL, I don’t share that optimism. I think it will be a long and tiresome struggle. The future is Super White, it may not be quite so bright.
It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Total Tranmere (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 07:40
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Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 07:57
Relegation talk started 2-3 months ago, fair play that some picked it up pre-season
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 09:26
At this point it is both easier, and from the club (if not MP's ) perspective, cheaper to spend now to stay up, than to undertake the massive restructure that demotion would bring alongside a massive revenue decline that could go on for years.
We are in a mess as a club, in many ways as big as that of Morecambe. There is not only inertia but a complacency around the running of the club that was reflected in the banal notes of both MP and NA in Saturdays programme notes. The implication, that all would be right but for injuries, insults the intelligence of fans. That problem is to a great extent self inflicted by signing players with a history of fragility. Take those out and our injury list has not been unusual. On the contrary, we have played mediocre teams at home this season missing six or more first teamers and have failed to win. That lies with our recruitment and retention. Yet no one responsible for that faces any discernible accountability.
The only facile response is to urge fans to get behind the team. The irony is that the fans are the least to blame. If we go down . If we do, then I fear that the loss of income will leave us with the same management team that have led us to this impasse.
Relegation is not certain, but as things stand it is highly probable. Like a diehard, I will continue to support the club, but I have low confidence that we will avoid relegation, and no confidence that any of the current management team is fit to take us forward
We are in a mess as a club, in many ways as big as that of Morecambe. There is not only inertia but a complacency around the running of the club that was reflected in the banal notes of both MP and NA in Saturdays programme notes. The implication, that all would be right but for injuries, insults the intelligence of fans. That problem is to a great extent self inflicted by signing players with a history of fragility. Take those out and our injury list has not been unusual. On the contrary, we have played mediocre teams at home this season missing six or more first teamers and have failed to win. That lies with our recruitment and retention. Yet no one responsible for that faces any discernible accountability.
The only facile response is to urge fans to get behind the team. The irony is that the fans are the least to blame. If we go down . If we do, then I fear that the loss of income will leave us with the same management team that have led us to this impasse.
Relegation is not certain, but as things stand it is highly probable. Like a diehard, I will continue to support the club, but I have low confidence that we will avoid relegation, and no confidence that any of the current management team is fit to take us forward
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Brenk (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 09:29
If we do go down, I wouldn’t want Adkins anywhere near the rebuild selection. Who we retained and who we recruited this season has been a major factor in our demise.
Come back Brabin, can you forgive us?
Come back Brabin, can you forgive us?
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 10:34
I think ultimately teams are destined for a certain level or place. Unfortunately for us ours is probably the 5th tier.
Flirting with relegation to the none-league isn’t a new thing, in fact it was a possibility before I started watching in 1989 , staying up on the last day a couple of seasons prior, then obviously dropping in 2014.
Any time away from that is just staving off the inevitable, look at the teams we traditionally call rivals or are traditionally around us.
Wrexham, 17 years in none league; would still be there without Hollywood and when they get bored guess where Wrexham are headed back.
Carlisle ; very similar story to ours , remember Jimmy Glass , it’s inevitable they’ll be back in NL before long.
Notts County, hit the promised land 2 years after toppling us in the play off final.
Oldham, brief flirting with success
Look at the NL and NLN now , Chester, York, Rochdale, Halifax, Hartlepool, Scunthorpe
Plymouth will now fall down the leagues and settle in there rightful place as will the likes of Brentford & Bournemouth when ownership jumps.
A new owner might push us to league 1 but it won't last assured as day is night we will be back fighting for survival in the 4th tier.
Flirting with relegation to the none-league isn’t a new thing, in fact it was a possibility before I started watching in 1989 , staying up on the last day a couple of seasons prior, then obviously dropping in 2014.
Any time away from that is just staving off the inevitable, look at the teams we traditionally call rivals or are traditionally around us.
Wrexham, 17 years in none league; would still be there without Hollywood and when they get bored guess where Wrexham are headed back.
Carlisle ; very similar story to ours , remember Jimmy Glass , it’s inevitable they’ll be back in NL before long.
Notts County, hit the promised land 2 years after toppling us in the play off final.
Oldham, brief flirting with success
Look at the NL and NLN now , Chester, York, Rochdale, Halifax, Hartlepool, Scunthorpe
Plymouth will now fall down the leagues and settle in there rightful place as will the likes of Brentford & Bournemouth when ownership jumps.
A new owner might push us to league 1 but it won't last assured as day is night we will be back fighting for survival in the 4th tier.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Jack of all Trades (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 10:37
We are one win in seven and that is relegation form, we blew the chance of three points on Saturday which, would have eased things slightly.
In one breath, it's no signings and in NA latest interview I quote "they are looking at signings but, most deals are done in the last two or, three days of the window", unquote.
Just shows the mess we are in.
In one breath, it's no signings and in NA latest interview I quote "they are looking at signings but, most deals are done in the last two or, three days of the window", unquote.
Just shows the mess we are in.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: SmartRover (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 11:17
I’ve said all along to compete physically in this league you need 4 young, athletic box to box midfielders and a decent centre forward, we trimmed our oversized squad and got a leaky defence, very static midfield and a group of centre forwards firing blanks. We get the old record of due diligence from MP wheeled out every season which we now all know is a poor excuse, half of that squad should not have been allowed anywhere PP looking at their injury history and goals history, we are an embarrassment this season, I’ve said all along we have the attributes of a team flirting with relegation, only a couple of players have the heart and fight the others just shrug their shoulders, blame others and keep picking up their wage packets. Whatever league we end up in a full clear out is needed and that definitely includes the coaching staff, you only have to mention free kicks and corners to know what a shambles they’ve been all season.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Jack of all Trades (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 11:21
On that tact, the only players under contract after 30/06/25 are,
Sam Finlay, Josh Davison, Sam Taylor, Harvey Saunders
Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.
Sam Finlay, Josh Davison, Sam Taylor, Harvey Saunders
Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: hong kong rover (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 12:17
i fully agree with DevonExile in that its cheaper to spend now to stay up...Yes, we have a poor squad, Yes, we are stuck with them, but they are not a complete dead loss of a squad and i am convinced that someone rather than Adkins can come in and keep us from going down..I think our only hope is getting rid of Adkins RIGHT NOW, with 20 games to go there is time..i dunno who that person would be, but i wouldn't have any of Danns, Parkinson, Crosby...After tonight, 5 of our next 7 games are at Prenton, Adkins is clueless away and our home results ain't good enough, if he stays i honestly think we are down...get someone in NOW, and hopefully we can get that new manager bounce in those next 7 games.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Brenk (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 12:44
Quote:Bored rover
I think ultimately teams are destined for a certain level or place. Unfortunately for us ours is probably the 5th tier.
Flirting with relegation to the none-league isn’t a new thing, in fact it was a possibility before I started watching in 1989 , staying up on the last day a couple of seasons prior, then obviously dropping in 2014.
Any time away from that is just staving off the inevitable, look at the teams we traditionally call rivals or are traditionally around us.
Wrexham, 17 years in none league; would still be there without Hollywood and when they get bored guess where Wrexham are headed back.
Carlisle ; very similar story to ours , remember Jimmy Glass , it’s inevitable they’ll be back in NL before long.
Notts County, hit the promised land 2 years after toppling us in the play off final.
Oldham, brief flirting with success
Look at the NL and NLN now , Chester, York, Rochdale, Halifax, Hartlepool, Scunthorpe
Plymouth will now fall down the leagues and settle in there rightful place as will the likes of Brentford & Bournemouth when ownership jumps.
A new owner might push us to league 1 but it won't last assured as day is night we will be back fighting for survival in the 4th tier.
All good points but I think seeing us in the National League as the appropriate level is too pessimistic. I started watching in the 1960s and from then to the 80s we oscillated between mid Division 3 and challenging for promotion when in Division4. The PJ days were brilliant but only because he spent a lot of money on the club and we had the inspiration of Johnny King and Aldo. The fan base is loyal and our average home attendance is 11 th in the league. Only Southend in the NL have a better average gate.
The ground and facilities are good. The foundations are good but the playing side has been underfunded for the last few years. We should be doing better.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: birkenhead tranny (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 12:52
there must be a centre forward available who can score goals to keep us up , the main difference in teams is chances taken , hence our goal tally , the increase in the gate would pay his wages ! if we dont get one in then i do fear the worst !,swa swa
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: PeteHK (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 12:55
If we lose at Swindon tonight that will a new record 8 away games with no Points. We only have our self's to blame keep changing the formation week in and week out it unsettles the squad. They need to bring that we had a good week in training. On to the pitch. For me it's been a boring season 3 player's sent off the last 3 away games. I honestly that we struggle to get 40 points this season. The chairman has to take the blame. So cheap but lives in a big house 🏠 on the Isle of man.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: jonesy792 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 13:35
The best piece the OP has done. Can’t disagree with assessment
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Bored rover (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 13:40
Quote:PeteSF
If we lose at Swindon tonight that will a new record 8 away games with no Points. We only have our self's to blame keep changing the formation week in and week out it unsettles the squad. They need to bring that we had a good week in training. On to the pitch. For me it's been a boring season 3 player's sent off the last 3 away games. I honestly that we struggle to get 40 points this season. The chairman has to take the blame. So cheap but lives in a big house 🏠 on the Isle of man.
[youtu.be]
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Ingleboro08 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 14:12
I do believe our level is in league two, but we could have become a yo-yo club, to League one, with better guardianship of the club. And with the potential to compete at play offs. At the very least.
Our biggest asset is the land the ground is on. It is also one of the biggest costs annually. Maintenance costs are very high.
I also believe but I may be mistaken, that attendance grew during the wilderness years into the Wembley years and league one. However the club have struggled to maintain that over the last couple of seasons. There are not many clubs that have not increased their attendance stats since covid. A cold Tuesday night is close to one man and his dog than full. We are slowly but surely losing support.
It is the prospect of the club going into receivership that I'm scared of.
And there is not much difference between NL and L2.I
God help us if there is no takeover, cos I believe they want the land, to gamble the future of the club away.
Our biggest asset is the land the ground is on. It is also one of the biggest costs annually. Maintenance costs are very high.
I also believe but I may be mistaken, that attendance grew during the wilderness years into the Wembley years and league one. However the club have struggled to maintain that over the last couple of seasons. There are not many clubs that have not increased their attendance stats since covid. A cold Tuesday night is close to one man and his dog than full. We are slowly but surely losing support.
It is the prospect of the club going into receivership that I'm scared of.
And there is not much difference between NL and L2.I
God help us if there is no takeover, cos I believe they want the land, to gamble the future of the club away.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Crazylegs Cranebird (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 14:24
One of the first things Big Joe and Rocky will do when they takeover is change the Manager and bring in someone like Ryan Lowe: this wont be confined to the transfer window.
Then we will see things happen.
Our job until then is to give the team maximum support and help them keep above that drop zone. Finishing above that line will be a great achievement for Joe and Rocky's superwhite army......
***SPORTY VIKINGS - BBC Radio Merseyside with Sean Styles****
👊👊 [tinyurl.com] 👊👊
Then we will see things happen.
Our job until then is to give the team maximum support and help them keep above that drop zone. Finishing above that line will be a great achievement for Joe and Rocky's superwhite army......
***SPORTY VIKINGS - BBC Radio Merseyside with Sean Styles****
👊👊 [tinyurl.com] 👊👊
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: johnoshackers (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 14:30
Quote:They can use the Trump MAGA hats banners and scarfs and Make Atkins Go Away 😉Crazylegs Cranebird
One of the first things Big Joe and Rocky will do when they takeover is change the Manager and bring in someone like Ryan Lowe: this wont be confined to the transfer window.
Then we will see things happen.
Our job until then is to give the team maximum support and help them keep above that drop zone. Finishing above that line will be a great achievement for Joe and Rocky's superwhite army......
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: DevonExile (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 14:50
CC we have no certainty yet, that they will come in, and absolutely no reason for thinking that they will bring in much money. In any case by that time it will be virtually impossible make changes that will impact on this season.
Whilst I agree with Bored about our immediate prospects, I do not think that we are a 'natural' fifth tier club. Historically, we have only spent a couple of seasons outside the league. Teams like Lincoln, Grimsby, Cheltenham, Exeter, and Doncaster, have spent as much time out of the league. We also at least match the potential of Accrington, Crewe, Harrogate, Newport, Bromley, Colchester and others. But any club like ours, and that is a lot of clubs, will always be at risk if badly run and managed. Currently that last description fits us. For me the frustration is that there is nothing inevitable or natural about the situation that we are in
Whilst I agree with Bored about our immediate prospects, I do not think that we are a 'natural' fifth tier club. Historically, we have only spent a couple of seasons outside the league. Teams like Lincoln, Grimsby, Cheltenham, Exeter, and Doncaster, have spent as much time out of the league. We also at least match the potential of Accrington, Crewe, Harrogate, Newport, Bromley, Colchester and others. But any club like ours, and that is a lot of clubs, will always be at risk if badly run and managed. Currently that last description fits us. For me the frustration is that there is nothing inevitable or natural about the situation that we are in
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Loyden1 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 16:00
Ive always said i cant believe that rocky rumour ,id be more inclined to think the castore lads would step in if recievership happened ,but palios aint gonna let that happen cos hed get nowt, i get the feeling someone is hovering waiting for a bargain and who could blame them ,just hope its not smurf
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Talormane (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 16:33
Tier 5 certainly isn't our natural level, we will 100% deserve it if we end up there though. I just looked at all the teams above us in League 2 and One and counted 33 that I believe we're historically as big as or bigger than. 35 if you count the 2 below us.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Zint (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 17:15
I don’t buy that any club has a ‘natural level’. Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth are all clubs who are playing at a much higher level than in the past. I put that down to good management and better investment.
Rovers failed to capitalise on their return to the EFL and then lost their way following the relegation during COVID. The last 3 seasons have been poor. That’s down to our Board mismanaging us.
Rovers failed to capitalise on their return to the EFL and then lost their way following the relegation during COVID. The last 3 seasons have been poor. That’s down to our Board mismanaging us.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Talormane (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 17:31
I believe we've been poorly managed by the boards recruitment of staff and more so players since the 2018-19 season. Yes we got promoted to league 1 that season but with a weaker team than the one that got us out of the NL.
We were rightly demoted from league one for not recruiting properly in the first place and only picking up after the January window. We were absolutely dreadful before then with 23 points from 31 league games before we won 3 in a row before lockdown.
It's been a steady decline
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:28:17:32:06 by Talormane.
We were rightly demoted from league one for not recruiting properly in the first place and only picking up after the January window. We were absolutely dreadful before then with 23 points from 31 league games before we won 3 in a row before lockdown.
It's been a steady decline
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:28:17:32:06 by Talormane.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: Ingleboro08 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 17:35
Quote:Zint
I don’t buy that any club has a ‘natural level’. Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth are all clubs who are playing at a much higher level than in the past. I put that down to good management and better investment.
Rovers failed to capitalise on their return to the EFL and then lost their way following the relegation during COVID. The last 3 seasons have been poor. That’s down to our Board mismanaging us.
I would add the league one season.
With the loss of strikers like Nors, and the likes of McNulty, Harris, we never really replaced them until it was too late. Also, we still had many still NL squad players.
We never invested enough quality into league one, that was the reason we struggled, and also the reason we were in the relegation zone, when you took that full season as a whole, we did lose too many. Yes we might have avoided relegation in the final few weeks. But the league table never lies.
The Bolton loss, was typical. So poor.
Re: It’s time we talked about relegation
Posted by: madscot (IP Logged)
Date: 28/01/2025 23:24
I wonder if NA will be proud of the new club record he has overseen?
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