Rotation - Part Two
By Captain Scarlet
September 27 2007
Ok folks after a good victory in the CC on Tuesday night where the team was once again rotated, I thought that the people who look upon rotation in a positive way would be on high and say 'look it does work'. On that note and NOT a dig at Rafa I though I'd put forward my points against constant rotation.
1. Rotation early in the season means longer to get to full fitness, assuming it takes 5/6 matches to gain it.
2. Rotating many players each match makes partnerships and 'understanding's' between players harder to achieve. The reason Zonal marking took ages to work on was due to constant changes in personnel.
3. If 'understanding's' are not formed between players, then mistakes are more likely to happen.
4. Players want to play, simple as.
5. The more influential players are often not on the pitch.
6. The less influential players are often on the pitch.
7. Rotation does NOT protect against injury. Agger and Xabi are both out and after "protecting" Torres against Portsmouth and Birmingham in league games we needed to win, he could have been injured inside five minutes against Reading in the CC.
8. Our unbeaten spells in the second halfs of the last two seasons saw very little changes between players.
9. The 'better' players sitting on the bench are having to come on if drawing or losing with 15/20 frantic minutes remaining to go and rush around trying to turn the result around, meaning MORE chance of picking up an injury. Why not pick a strong team to start and once in a comfortable position, substitute players then.
10. Scoring a goal, two goals or a hat-trick and then being 'rested' feels like being dropped just when your confidence is high.
We needed a good start and we got a good start. But after a 6-0 drubbing of Derby we lost momentum by making six changes at a Pompy side 'there' for the taking.
We will have some great results after the team has been rotated, just as much as we will have defeats if the team wasn't. But I believe that we'd be a much stronger side with a consistent line up with others fighting for places.
Ok rest a player here and there if absolutely needed, but not 5 or more every match.
As Paisley used to say when asked what his team selection was, "Same again".
Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: Mighty Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 13:07
Rotation - Part Two
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 11:58
Hmmmm......have to have a think before I answer your points Cap, if I can answer them at all....
I thought it was Shanks who when asked for his team used to answer...'same as last year'
Can I put it on the front page?
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“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.”. Bill Shankly
I thought it was Shanks who when asked for his team used to answer...'same as last year'
Can I put it on the front page?
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“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.”. Bill Shankly
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: L'pool FC (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 12:17
The reason we win so many games towards the end of the season is because players are stil fresh becasue of rotation at the start of the season.
W don't need to make as many changes in the latter stages of the season because the players aren't as fatigued.
I think there are pro's and con's to rotation.
Imo the squad is still two or three players short before Rafa can bring in like-for-like players, or quality-for-quality.
The midfield takes care of its self. Momo, Xabi, Stevie and Mascheranoooo in whichever combination played will dominate. Its just the flanks ive still got a problem with. Kewell, Riise and Aurelio aren't good enough cover. Im not going to cast judgement upo Benayoun yet. Pennant is looking better with every game he plays but there are better right wingers playing in the Premier League. Ronaldo, Lennon, Wright-Phillips...Babel is the only one, imo that could hold down a regular place in the side.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:09:27:12:23:38 by L'pool FC.
W don't need to make as many changes in the latter stages of the season because the players aren't as fatigued.
I think there are pro's and con's to rotation.
Imo the squad is still two or three players short before Rafa can bring in like-for-like players, or quality-for-quality.
The midfield takes care of its self. Momo, Xabi, Stevie and Mascheranoooo in whichever combination played will dominate. Its just the flanks ive still got a problem with. Kewell, Riise and Aurelio aren't good enough cover. Im not going to cast judgement upo Benayoun yet. Pennant is looking better with every game he plays but there are better right wingers playing in the Premier League. Ronaldo, Lennon, Wright-Phillips...Babel is the only one, imo that could hold down a regular place in the side.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:09:27:12:23:38 by L'pool FC.
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 12:36
Capt find it very hard to put up an argument ,find myself agreeing with your points BUT
All the top managers rotate their players to an extent,is slur Alex being riddiculed by the press this morning? Rafa has a proven pedigree when it comes to winning things ,ok to us we cant see the sence of not going for Pompeys throat but he believed in the team he put out. After 6 games were unbeaten ,havnt even conceded from open play so hes not far off the mark. If were in striking distance of the title and looking fit as butchers dogs in April rotation will be a forgotten word like zonal. If were off the pace at this stage again then questions must be asked. As for now have faith IN RAFA I TRUST
All the top managers rotate their players to an extent,is slur Alex being riddiculed by the press this morning? Rafa has a proven pedigree when it comes to winning things ,ok to us we cant see the sence of not going for Pompeys throat but he believed in the team he put out. After 6 games were unbeaten ,havnt even conceded from open play so hes not far off the mark. If were in striking distance of the title and looking fit as butchers dogs in April rotation will be a forgotten word like zonal. If were off the pace at this stage again then questions must be asked. As for now have faith IN RAFA I TRUST
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 12:39
Feel free Kate.
L'pool, you don't really believe players are fresh at the end of the season due to rotation do ya?
I'd agree on some of your points on wide players but I personally feel Pennant has been better than Lennon for a while now. SWP is good but hit and miss at present and I doubt whiskey gob would sell us Ronaldo, if he wouldn't sell us Heinz.
L'pool, you don't really believe players are fresh at the end of the season due to rotation do ya?
I'd agree on some of your points on wide players but I personally feel Pennant has been better than Lennon for a while now. SWP is good but hit and miss at present and I doubt whiskey gob would sell us Ronaldo, if he wouldn't sell us Heinz.
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: L'pool FC (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 12:42
So why do we come good at the end of the season?
Theses unbeaten runs for the past two seasons can't be down to luck. We have been to 3 cup finals in three seasons. For that you need to be at your best in every game up until the final whistle.
Theses unbeaten runs for the past two seasons can't be down to luck. We have been to 3 cup finals in three seasons. For that you need to be at your best in every game up until the final whistle.
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 12:47
So why do we come good at the end of the season?
Because as I said, he doesn't rotate the team as much towards the end.
One or two get rested as opposed to 5/6/7 or more at the start.
Because as I said, he doesn't rotate the team as much towards the end.
One or two get rested as opposed to 5/6/7 or more at the start.
Re: Rotation - Part 2
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 13:05
Sorry Carra, missed your post.
I know a fair few managers rotate but does that make it right? They also don't do six or seven at a time.
I know Rafa believed that the team v Pompy was good enough as he thought v Brum was good enough too.
He has been sucessful I know, but I like many many others would love to see us have a settled side.
It's not a knock or a bandwagen to jump on and I couldn't care less what the papers say, they change their tune, I don't.
I know a fair few managers rotate but does that make it right? They also don't do six or seven at a time.
I know Rafa believed that the team v Pompy was good enough as he thought v Brum was good enough too.
He has been sucessful I know, but I like many many others would love to see us have a settled side.
It's not a knock or a bandwagen to jump on and I couldn't care less what the papers say, they change their tune, I don't.
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 14:23
My gut feeling is to a large degree in agreement but i think we will both be happy if Rafa gets it right in may.
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: L'pool FC (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 15:17
The reason he has a settled side at the end of the season is because he doesn't have to rest them. They have been rested at the start of the season
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 15:48
I have to agree with L'Pool FC's comment there Cap......we have been strong in the second half of the last few seasons.
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“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.”. Bill Shankly
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“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.”. Bill Shankly
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 16:26
Very well written Cap'n,
I can see good & bad points in both systems, I think it can
work very well in cup campaigns as it's been proved in what wev'e won. Espeically gainst AC Milan in the CL final, coming back from 3 nil down.
But if it's true players needing 5/6 matches ta get match fit after a couple of game lay offs, I can see where the team lacks in gelling.
We need ta be consistant, before the international break we stormed ta the top with good results. Then the next couple of games we couldn't string two passes together.
Having players fresh at the end of the season with all the rotation is wonderfull. But to be honest, it depends on how far behined the top two we are, becacuse of inconsistancy throughout the season.
As Carra says, we all want the same result come may, So lets all back Rafa 100% with his tactics & see what he can cunjur
up for us. but would like him ta use a settled side ta see what that can achieve too!!!!
Having Torres in our side can mean only one thing, CONFIDENCE & he has bundles of it & hopefully it will rub off.
SO "IN RAFA WE TRUST",....
I can see good & bad points in both systems, I think it can
work very well in cup campaigns as it's been proved in what wev'e won. Espeically gainst AC Milan in the CL final, coming back from 3 nil down.
But if it's true players needing 5/6 matches ta get match fit after a couple of game lay offs, I can see where the team lacks in gelling.
We need ta be consistant, before the international break we stormed ta the top with good results. Then the next couple of games we couldn't string two passes together.
Having players fresh at the end of the season with all the rotation is wonderfull. But to be honest, it depends on how far behined the top two we are, becacuse of inconsistancy throughout the season.
As Carra says, we all want the same result come may, So lets all back Rafa 100% with his tactics & see what he can cunjur
up for us. but would like him ta use a settled side ta see what that can achieve too!!!!
Having Torres in our side can mean only one thing, CONFIDENCE & he has bundles of it & hopefully it will rub off.
SO "IN RAFA WE TRUST",....
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: Red cookie - Mauritius (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 17:24
As our heart works only 9 hours in 24 hours and not straight 9 hours also. Our heart needs to relax and be active for 24 hours. Thus I agreed with Rafa that our players have to be rotated and according to tactics, the fittest player has to play. The EPL is not a 100 m race but a marathon race thus at the start of the race we cannot give 100% bcos we will never cross the finish line. Let Rafa do his business we willjudge him at the end of the season. YNWA
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: XPeriment626 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 17:34
People are missing the important point that Paul Tomkins raised, which is that Torres is still young and new to the Premiership. He is being eased into the game by Benitez to build up his toughness and familiarity with English football, like Wenger and Ferguson do with young prodigies. If you play him too much too quickly you will burn him out. The truth is, we should have been good enough to beat Brum without Torres, but the team played terribly and didn't manage the win. If we need Torres to play to beat teams like Birmingham then we can kiss the title goodye. Voronin and Kuyt should have been more than sufficient. It's easier to criticise Benitez in hindsight, but the fact is that at the point of kickoff his decision could not really be faulted.
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 19:09
L'pool and Kate.
Drogba, Terry, Lampard etc played virtually all season long with out looking too tired, even in CC ties and they lifted the PL trophy two years running.
Over the last few seasons we have "lost" the title at the start of the season, not the end. Being twenty points behind at the turn of the new year then trying to pull them back with 'fresh' players ain't gonna happen.
If players can't manage 4 or 5 matches without getting tired at the start, how can they manage 10 or 11 at the end?
Red Cookie
Obviously chilling out somewhere if your heart only works 9 hours a day.
How come the Liverpool players of old could manage three matches a week?
Xperiment
I said rest a player here and there if needed and if Torres was struggling to adapt then fine. But the man is on fire and full of confidence.
Drogba, Terry, Lampard etc played virtually all season long with out looking too tired, even in CC ties and they lifted the PL trophy two years running.
Over the last few seasons we have "lost" the title at the start of the season, not the end. Being twenty points behind at the turn of the new year then trying to pull them back with 'fresh' players ain't gonna happen.
If players can't manage 4 or 5 matches without getting tired at the start, how can they manage 10 or 11 at the end?
Red Cookie
Obviously chilling out somewhere if your heart only works 9 hours a day.
How come the Liverpool players of old could manage three matches a week?
Xperiment
I said rest a player here and there if needed and if Torres was struggling to adapt then fine. But the man is on fire and full of confidence.
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 27/09/2007 19:58
To me i would try to keep the same spine in the prem and the important cup games. Reina, Carra, Agger, Stevie, Torres.Rotate the rest of squad ,horses for courses. But hey what do i know compared to one of the worlds great coaches.Rafa has his way of doing things sports sciences and the like.Come May we will see who is right.
Re: Rotation - Part Two
Posted by: dotman (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2008 10:13
the hype about rotation or not is just getting too far.Rafa believes that's what works.it has worked for a while.but resting players when they themselves really want to play is quite demoralising.it's taking its tool already.it is the main really why Liverpool is so inconsistent