Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
By BMW Sauber F1
July 13 2009
The BMW Sauber Formula One Team didn’t score any points at its home Grand Prix after Nick Heidfeld crossed the finish line in tenth position at the Nürburgring and team mate Robert Kubica finished 14th. BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen looks back on yesterday's race.
"It goes without saying that we had hoped for a very different result
from our home race at the Nürburgring. Compared to the previous race at
Silverstone, tenth and fourteenth places for Nick and Robert were a
slight improvement, but we cannot allow that to be our approach.
"At the midway point of the season, one thing is certain: the BMW Sauber F1.09 is simply not quick enough. We fell behind at the start of the season when
the double diffuser was legalised. Since then we have been playing
catch up with regard to aerodynamic downforce. We are also experiencing
another shortcoming when it comes to tapping the full potential of the
tyres, particularly in low temperatures during practice, as was
recently the case at Silverstone and the Nürburgring. The field then
records lap times within just 1.5 seconds of each other, which means
you can end up slipping a long way down the grid.
"The drivers bare no blame here. If we could provide them with a car,
with which they could compete at the front of the field, then they
would be doing just that again. They have proven this often enough in
the past. Both Nick and Robert have handled the situation in a very
professional manner. They are working intensively together with the
engineers, discussing ways of solving the problems and, like everyone
else in the team, are striving to finally get the team back to the top
of the sport.
"The technicians in Munich and Hinwil face the greatest challenge. In
previous years our teams in Germany and Switzerland showed that they
can also perform under pressure. After all, we showed continuous
improvement over the three years since the team was formed, and
achieved all our goals. Unfortunately, it is not possible to be
permanently on the up in sport. Every so often everyone has to suffer a
setback. The important thing is to stay calm, consistently analyse any
errors, and implement any necessary measures. This process is ongoing.
I am convinced that we can work together to alter this course, and get
back among the teams at the top.
"Of course, work has already started on developing the F1.10, as is
usual at this time of the year. This is running parallel to the further
development of the current car. However, we are also working at full
speed on the F1.09. Because there have only been minor changes to the
aerodynamics regulations for 2010, we can take the knowledge we are
gaining now and use it on the F1.10. That is our primary task for the
second half of the season."
Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: BMW Sauber F1 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/07/2009 18:33
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Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Zagloba (IP Logged)
Date: 14/07/2009 09:49
But they starting now to work on 2010 .... hahaha well Now I can understand it (f09 lemon) but I still sulking lost opportunity for WCM last year :-((
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:14:12:44:15 by Zagloba.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:14:12:44:15 by Zagloba.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: barteks (IP Logged)
Date: 14/07/2009 09:54
Like Barrichello would say: "bla, bla, bla..."
2008 Prediction Champion
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: soarq (IP Logged)
Date: 14/07/2009 12:02
Damn, Theissen still thinks everthing is perfectly OK in staff and team's procedures. We will be dissapointed in 2010 with another inferior car.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: asoft (IP Logged)
Date: 14/07/2009 12:48
HA HA HA HA HA! Are these statements recent or are from last year? Now I am sure that F1.09 is history and that apart from cosmetic changes no real improvements will come.
As for the comment on proving how we can work under pressure I have to say this
As for the comment on proving how we can work under pressure I have to say this
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 14/07/2009 14:06
I'll put just facts here.
The F1.10 started some time ago already, as in all other teams. For example, the Brawn already started 2 months and a half ago.
The question is not about when the 2010 design started, but how much of the total resources (workforce) is put on 2009 or 2010 car.
Parallel work with difficult balance (especially for the teams fighting for the championship).
Asoft, there will be a major (in BMW standards I guess) update for the European GP in Valencia. I'm not aware yet if there will be furthermore afterwards.
And on the pressure, yes they can of course. They problem is that they are too relaxed! lol
And they put their tyre pressures too high too (this one was arealy bad easy joke, sorry!)
Soarq, sorry, but I don't see where Theissen says things re ok. Quite on the contrary. He clearly states the car is too slow, and explains the (or his, if you prefer) reasons.
Doesn't he say that they are analyzing (favorite word!) errors and implementing measures?
All in all, weren't some criticizing BMW to focus on 2010 already, and said that it was better to keep on working of 2009 aero, as there would be no aero rules changes?...
Racing against the machine!
The F1.10 started some time ago already, as in all other teams. For example, the Brawn already started 2 months and a half ago.
The question is not about when the 2010 design started, but how much of the total resources (workforce) is put on 2009 or 2010 car.
Parallel work with difficult balance (especially for the teams fighting for the championship).
Asoft, there will be a major (in BMW standards I guess) update for the European GP in Valencia. I'm not aware yet if there will be furthermore afterwards.
And on the pressure, yes they can of course. They problem is that they are too relaxed! lol
And they put their tyre pressures too high too (this one was arealy bad easy joke, sorry!)
Soarq, sorry, but I don't see where Theissen says things re ok. Quite on the contrary. He clearly states the car is too slow, and explains the (or his, if you prefer) reasons.
Doesn't he say that they are analyzing (favorite word!) errors and implementing measures?
All in all, weren't some criticizing BMW to focus on 2010 already, and said that it was better to keep on working of 2009 aero, as there would be no aero rules changes?...
Racing against the machine!
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Bogs (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 13:26
How about now? F1.09 development should really be great now!!! Great job Mario!
Where is popilirol a.k.a. rolren to defend Mario now?????????
Where is popilirol a.k.a. rolren to defend Mario now?????????
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 13:36
To be fair Mario had nothing to do with the decision, and the F1.10 will still race...but under another name.
Remember the Honda-Brawn case
Racing against the machine!
Remember the Honda-Brawn case
Racing against the machine!
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Bogs (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 13:41
Jamie.........Mario had nothing to do with it???
You have got to be kidding! In the press release they mentioned that the poor performance had something to do with this decision. Mario is the leader of the team and ultimately responsible for performance.
You have got to be kidding! In the press release they mentioned that the poor performance had something to do with this decision. Mario is the leader of the team and ultimately responsible for performance.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: pcyryl (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 14:00
As he is responsible for KERS decisions which proved to be horribly wrong, abandoning 09 Kubica's chances.
It takes much time to come one the top and very little to fall.
It takes much time to come one the top and very little to fall.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: devil500 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 14:21
Give up this is sad..I hope they consider moving the whole team to race in LeMans...
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 14:38
Quote:Bogs
Jamie.........Mario had nothing to do with it???
You have got to be kidding! In the press release they mentioned that the poor performance had something to do with this decision. Mario is the leader of the team and ultimately responsible for performance.
I dont think Mario had much to do with the poor performance of this year.
It was mainly aerodynamic design flaw, which he could influence nothing at all, and KERS, which was pushed by the same board that now has decided to abandon F1 yet still claim they push forward to energy efficiency strategies.
I dont see much that Mario could have done differently to avoid 2009's lack of pace
Racing against the machine!
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: allanjelly (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 14:52
I see what could have been done differently.
McLaren made almost the same mistakes as BMW.
Yet I'm pretty sure BMW board's decision would have been different if they saw their car winning at Hungaroring.
It is clear that it was possible to turn the table and bridge the gap to the frontrunners. BMW was not able to do that they fell even further behind. It must have something to do with management.
One example - Who ordered the team to wait with double diffusor design until court desided it's all legal? That was one of the most stupid decisions I've ever witnessed.
McLaren made almost the same mistakes as BMW.
Yet I'm pretty sure BMW board's decision would have been different if they saw their car winning at Hungaroring.
It is clear that it was possible to turn the table and bridge the gap to the frontrunners. BMW was not able to do that they fell even further behind. It must have something to do with management.
One example - Who ordered the team to wait with double diffusor design until court desided it's all legal? That was one of the most stupid decisions I've ever witnessed.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 15:13
[quote allanjelly]I see what could have been done differently.
McLaren made almost the same mistakes as BMW.
Yet I'm pretty sure BMW board's decision would have been different if they saw their car winning at Hungaroring.
It is clear that it was possible to turn the table and bridge the gap to the frontrunners. BMW was not able to do that they fell even further behind. It must have something to do with management.[quote]
That had to do with design, not management. Mclern screwed up when they based they design on data and simulations based on previous years, which didnt work with the new rules. But helped by better mech grip than the BMW and continous "parts throw" to the car it worked for them to turn around. Again that had more to do with design than management.
[quote allanjelly]One example - Who ordered the team to wait with double diffusor design until court desided it's all legal? That was one of the most stupid decisions I've ever witnessed.[/quote]
and thats false. As if they had started just minute after the FIA announcement oh gosh. It took longer cause we have a turtle development speed and the design of the car's rear wasnt helping either.
Racing against the machine!
McLaren made almost the same mistakes as BMW.
Yet I'm pretty sure BMW board's decision would have been different if they saw their car winning at Hungaroring.
It is clear that it was possible to turn the table and bridge the gap to the frontrunners. BMW was not able to do that they fell even further behind. It must have something to do with management.[quote]
That had to do with design, not management. Mclern screwed up when they based they design on data and simulations based on previous years, which didnt work with the new rules. But helped by better mech grip than the BMW and continous "parts throw" to the car it worked for them to turn around. Again that had more to do with design than management.
[quote allanjelly]One example - Who ordered the team to wait with double diffusor design until court desided it's all legal? That was one of the most stupid decisions I've ever witnessed.[/quote]
and thats false. As if they had started just minute after the FIA announcement oh gosh. It took longer cause we have a turtle development speed and the design of the car's rear wasnt helping either.
Racing against the machine!
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Bogs (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 15:23
Jamie,
When BMW was doing well, Mario was getting praise and credit for a job well done. When BMW is failing, it's not Mario's fault?????? Sorry, I don't buy it. He is the one that put the people in place that made the poor decisions. He is responsible if they fail. We had the development pace of a turtle last year, so how do we compare this year? Certain no better, and you could argue even worse.
The people he put in place failed - therefore he failed as a manager. He has to take blame.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:29:15:32:53 by Bogs.
When BMW was doing well, Mario was getting praise and credit for a job well done. When BMW is failing, it's not Mario's fault?????? Sorry, I don't buy it. He is the one that put the people in place that made the poor decisions. He is responsible if they fail. We had the development pace of a turtle last year, so how do we compare this year? Certain no better, and you could argue even worse.
The people he put in place failed - therefore he failed as a manager. He has to take blame.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:29:15:32:53 by Bogs.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 15:51
If you read my post, I didnt say he wasnt to blame or his responsible, I said that there was little he could have done.
His plan had accomplished the objectives for the first 3 seasons, it failed in the 4th one. Blame him for that, if you want; I wont deny that.
But you cannot say he could have done better with KERS issue (not using it) cause it was the main board who was pushing for it.
The only thing he could have done is restructuring the team, but it is too late for that to affect at all the F1.09's pace. Dont you agree?
Racing against the machine!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:29:15:58:34 by J-Raid.
His plan had accomplished the objectives for the first 3 seasons, it failed in the 4th one. Blame him for that, if you want; I wont deny that.
But you cannot say he could have done better with KERS issue (not using it) cause it was the main board who was pushing for it.
The only thing he could have done is restructuring the team, but it is too late for that to affect at all the F1.09's pace. Dont you agree?
Racing against the machine!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:29:15:58:34 by J-Raid.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Bogs (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 16:51
Jamie,
Sorry, but they did not accomplish goals in year 3. The goal was to win on merit. Sorry, but the win in Canada was not a win on merit. It was a win on a Hamilton brain fart that took out the top 2 contenders and on a safety car. What they did on merit that season is quit when they had a chance (even though it was not a great chance) to challenge for the championship. They @#$%& that chance away for the opportunity to battle for last place this year.
They failed last years goal, could not develop the car into the season last year, made no adjustments internally despite failing to meet the true goals, and fell flat on their face this year with blunder after blunder. Remeber, we were ahead of Mclaren at the beginning of the season. This week Mclaren won on merit, while we sucked on merit.
Mario is not to blame???
Sorry, but they did not accomplish goals in year 3. The goal was to win on merit. Sorry, but the win in Canada was not a win on merit. It was a win on a Hamilton brain fart that took out the top 2 contenders and on a safety car. What they did on merit that season is quit when they had a chance (even though it was not a great chance) to challenge for the championship. They @#$%& that chance away for the opportunity to battle for last place this year.
They failed last years goal, could not develop the car into the season last year, made no adjustments internally despite failing to meet the true goals, and fell flat on their face this year with blunder after blunder. Remeber, we were ahead of Mclaren at the beginning of the season. This week Mclaren won on merit, while we sucked on merit.
Mario is not to blame???
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: allanjelly (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 17:16
Mario is to blame.
Of course little could be done today or yesterday. But he could and should had noticed our turtle development pace at least year ago.
He didn't do anything or at least not enough to change it (including changes to people responsible for design).
Mario's responsible for giving false hopes to the board.
Why Toyota could have evaluated KERS as useless before season and we could not?
Why could Mclaren get back to winning and we could not?
My only hope left is that Sauber will lead the team again.
Of course little could be done today or yesterday. But he could and should had noticed our turtle development pace at least year ago.
He didn't do anything or at least not enough to change it (including changes to people responsible for design).
Mario's responsible for giving false hopes to the board.
Why Toyota could have evaluated KERS as useless before season and we could not?
Why could Mclaren get back to winning and we could not?
My only hope left is that Sauber will lead the team again.
Re: Mario Theissen: BMW not abandoning F1.09 development yet
Posted by: Raid Phoenix (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 17:23
Quote:Bogs
Jamie,
Sorry, but they did not accomplish goals in year 3. The goal was to win on merit. Sorry, but the win in Canada was not a win on merit. It was a win on a Hamilton brain fart that took out the top 2 contenders and on a safety car. What they did on merit that season is quit when they had a chance (even though it was not a great chance) to challenge for the championship. They @#$%& that chance away for the opportunity to battle for last place this year.
They failed last years goal, could not develop the car into the season last year, made no adjustments internally despite failing to meet the true goals, and fell flat on their face this year with blunder after blunder. Remeber, we were ahead of Mclaren at the beginning of the season. This week Mclaren won on merit, while we sucked on merit.
Don't recall exactly if their press release added the "on own merit" part, but in any case they managed to get the win. The result is what really matters. Should they have kept pushing 2009 at full throttle? Now its clear that yes, they should have gone all for it. And I totally agree it was a mistake by Mario and the board not to do so.
We were not in front of Mclaren at the start of the season, unfortunately. At best we were on par, in some races (Malaysia, Bahrain), but never ahead really.
Quote:Bogs
Mario is not to blame???
If you bothered to read my posts...
I never said he is not to blame. All I said is that this year he could do little to improve the F1.09's pace.
BTW My name is like Alguersuari, not Jamie
Quote:allanjelly
He didn't do anything or at least not enough to change it (including changes to people responsible for design).
And I agree on that too, and have said it multiple times. The organization and its mentality is too rigid and not fast reacting enough.
But, the thing is that they noticed about slow development pace only by late in the 2008 season, while the F1.09 work had already started in February. Changes would hav only started paying dividends by May/June 2009; which would have been obviously too late anyway.
AND the lack of new parts in late 2008 wasnt just about lack of development pace, but also the windtunnel being screwed up and the F1.08 aero concept too complicated for them to properly understand
Racing against the machine!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:29:17:29:35 by J-Raid.