Exeter Chiefs v Gloucester Rugby

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

Goodrick-Clarke
Frost
J I-Scott
Tuima
Jenkins
Vermeulan
Fisilau
Vintcent
Townsend
Skinner
Wyatt
Rigg
Slade
Brown-P
Hodge

Yeandle, Blose, Street, Molina, Roots, Cairns, Wimbush, Hammersley or Woodburn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:12:04:37 by mommentum.

With rose tinted glasses Exe 28 - 14 Glaws but I could be wrong!

Exeter Chiefs:

15 Josh Hodge

14 Olly Woodburn

13 Ben Hammersley

12 Tamati Tua

11 Tommy Wyatt

10 Henry Slade

9 Stu Townsend


1 Scott Sio

2 Dan Frost

3 Marcus Street

4 Dafydd Jenkins (c)

5 Richard Capstick

6 Ethan Roots

7 Jacques Vermeulen

8 Greg Fisilau


Replacements:

16 Jack Innard

17 Will Goodrick-Clarke

18 Josh Iosefa-Scott

19 Franco Molina

20 Ross Vintcent

21 Tom Cairns

22 Will Haydon-Wood

23 Zack Wimbush

Gloucester Rugby

15 Santi Carreras

14 Christian Wade

13 Max Llewellyn

12 Seb Atkinson

11 Josh Hathaway

10 Gareth Anscombe

9 Tomos Williams

1 Mayco Vivas

2 Seb Blake

3 Kirill Gotovtsev

4 Freddie Thomas

5 Matias Alemanno

6 Jack Clement

7 Lewis Ludlow (C)

8 Ruan Ackermann

Replacements

16 Jack Singleton

17 Jamal Ford-Robinson

18 Ciaran Knight

19 Cam Jordan

20 Albert Tuisue

21 Caolan Englefield

22 Chris Harris

23 George Barton

Match Officials

Referee: Ian Tempest

Assistant Referees: Anthony Woodthorpe and Gareth Holsgrove

TMO: David Rose

Weather Forecast as at 1200 Friday

Sunny intervals and a gentle breeze breeze from the west
Temperature 11 degrees will feel like 10 degrees
Precipitation is not expected

TV Coverage

Channel 408 TNT Sports 1 SD 1430-1715
Channel 430 TNT Sports 3 HD 1430-1715

Good to see Cairns and Wimbush back in the mix but can't see us winning all the same.

Feeling positive Chiefs 27 - 24 Glaws

Chiefs 21-38 Glos

Is Harvey alright? Does anyone know where he is? This is like Lake Mungo for rugby!

Chiefs 19 - 23 Gloucester.

#COYC

Cueto wasn't in touch, at least in my dreams.

Really? Tempest and Rosie? That's really going to help with a smooth, uninterrupted game!
In hope more that expectations...
Chiefs 28 : Glaws 23

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.

It is so hard to predict wins even at home. Will we commit fewer pens and be better at the breakdown? The same players on show so if the tactics don't change I doubt it. Still the same coaches having faith. Capstick again in the second row, our dysfunctional centre pairing..... Chiefs 26 [optomistically] Gloucs 33. I really hope I am wrong as well!

the biggest problem with Vermeulen and Roots playing together is that they are both very flat footed and slow, worst is that they are both very slow away from the scrum, the opp number 8 is half way down the pitch before they are on their feet let alone making a tackle.

lets hope the players can keep the penalty count below 18, may be the PA can remind them and to keep focused. The fact we play better with 14 men shows that the players are switching off in games.

Exeter 24 Gloucester 25

Still don’t understand Capstick at 5!?

Surprised to see the same back line as the Sale game, we looked devoid of attacking ideas and the defence was poor. Is Rigg injured? Surely he deserves a run of games. IMHO this is a must win game but I can only see Gloucester running us ragged unfortunately, discipline is vital and the tribe needs to be in full voice, hopefully it might then give the players some energy that’s been seriously lacking this season

Chiefs 18 Gloucester 33

Chiefs 37 Glos 21, possibly

Chiefs 33 Gloucester 19

The selection just lacks inspiration to me again Chiefs 21 Glaws 28

I really really hope we win on Sunday, there is so much riding on it for the club but like many watchers cannot understand why we continue to select players not playing well in a losing team. I looked back to our best performances this season Tigers and Bristol the 2 games we should have won and looked at the team selection. The following players featured but have been excluded since or not starting this weekend - Tuima, Skinner, Hawkins, Paul Brown (scored tries) and Molina. I suppose the exclusion of 2 international locks and an England A lock for a makeshift flanker at lock is the most bewildering. Slade at 10 has not delivered to date and for me looks an odd selection again, I hope not to just to kick every possession away.

A game we would normally expect to win but ……on form Glaws will be a very tough nut as they love to run the ball, have recruited brilliantly at half back and we are so vulnerable defensively Chiefs 27 Glaws 38

Chiefs 28 Glaws 25.Cautiously optimistic. Can't make this one but will be in Leicester next weekend.

Couple of things… first a positive. No Val RR in their scrum is a big miss for them, he always causes us issues in the scrum and around the park.

Second if we do not win, and I so hope we do. Will it see another cull of coaches, after all Ricky coached the team to a win up there some weeks ago.

Chiefs 23 Gloucester 31

Quote:

tigersimon
Still don’t understand Capstick at 5!?

Seems a little strange when he’s keeping 3 internationals out of the team, Molina, Tshiunza and Tuima. Would like to know why Tuima has been dropped after being almost ever present until the last few games. Is he off to join his brother Jeremy in France? I feel we supporters are being treated like mushrooms by the club, kept in the dark and fed @#$%&.. it’s quite striking that almost every other club have been making announcements about contract extensions whilst we remain very tight lipped. if we lose then I expect major changes. Hopefully starting with the new stadium announcer.

Not confident about this game. A big improvement needed for a win.

Chiefs 23 Glos 27

With this selection I cannot see us even getting a point. Capstick at 5 and no creative in the centres.
Ex 15. Glaws 28.

With this selection I cannot see us even getting a point. Capstick at 5 and no creative in the centres.
Ex 15. Glaws 28.

As others have said some bizarre selections, something feels wrong to me. Capstick at lock when, not only do you have your 3 international locks not playing, you have Pearson playing down in Cornwall, seems crazy to me. Then playing your international 13 at ten with a winger at 13, again, when it's not worked before seems bonkers to me. Rogg playing at 12 gives us another option, without a hard runner at 12 we are very very predictable! Our attack at Sale was the worst I've ever seen.

We desperately need to win this otherwise the calls for change will become louder and the confidence drop lower. As I stated in in the first sentence something feels wrong at the club to me, players who played well last season seem out of favour for no obvious reason.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I can't see us winning this unless we have miraculously developed some form of attack over the last week. Glaws will score points so we'll have to score a few tries to win this. Chiefs 17 Glaws 24

Heart over head, Chiefs 21 - 18 Gloss

I have said it on another thread but will say it again. I feel the coaches are losing the plot with team selections....
I have massive respect for Rob and what he has achieved but the first time he has been under real pressure and we have been found wanting so far.
I obviously want us to win but I genuinely am baffled as I think it's so far from our strongest side.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating but the continued selection of players not playing well can only upset the stability of the squad surely?
I wouldn't be happy being on the bench or not in the squad seeing how our first choice players continually underperform.
I can only think that there are non playing issues related to the non selection of certain players but we can only guess at that because as usual there is no mention of certain players being unavailable due to injury.
That in itself doesn't help speculation does it?
Anyway I will back the squad picked to get the job done so fingers and everything else crossed 🤞



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:17:46:27 by Zyder head.

Persisting with my unbroken record of getting it wrong for Premiership matches:
Chiefs 31, Gloucester 26

Skinner, Tuima, Tshiunza, Rigg all fit?

Quote:

tigersimon
Skinner, Tuima, Tshiunza, Rigg all fit?

Can never be sure but suspect that is the case.

On seeing the team sheet this week my reaction wasn't excitement, just "Oh FFS not again".

Our coaches seem to love playing wingers at centre and vice versa, it's not even a new thing, but given Woodburn is fit and was doing relatively OK at 13, why not put him back there and leave Hammersley on the wing. He's a younger player and still learning, better it be in the position he's better at surely, if only to keep his confidence up.

Capstick in second row ahead of Molina, Tshiunza and Tuima makes no sense to me unless they were all unavailable to start. Where's Alfie Bell disappeared to? There was a lot of hype about him when we signed him from Wasps (along with Manni, Frost and Fisilau) as one for the future. At 22 now surely he should be breaking through? If we're that depleted surely we should be thinking about bringing Eoin O'Connor back in, rather than play a back row out of position?

Glos look a well balanced side, they've rotated a few, and still have quality to come off the bench.

Chiefs 17 Gloucester 32

I found these two comments on a Chiefs related forum from Mar/Apr 2022. The poster, Vieux Talloneur (Old Hooker, I think) may have had a valid point.

[www.therugbyforum.com]

Mar 2022
Baxter is so hugely intertwined with Chiefs and so dominant there that he's a huge risk for them as well as a massive asset. He's way way beyond a coach's normal shelf life and one day - possibly soon - he'll inevitably run out of ideas or energy or both. When he does need replacing, Chiefs will need a damned good succession plan and possibly a ruthless streak

Apr 2022
Times reporting that Salvi has left his position as defence coach.

In the same article it says that Baxter and Hepher have both been in place since 2009 and Hunter (forwards coach) since 2013. That's great in so many ways, but must also be pretty stale by now. Any organisation needs a managed flow of new blood and fresh thinking

I realise retrospect is a wonderful thing, but maybe the writing was on the wall? Also, TR's involvement may soon be coming to its natural & inevitable conclusion. What do you all think?

COYC

As others have said, there are a lot of selections here that just don't make sense to me. I try and reconcile that by just accepting that the coaches are close to it, have decades of experience and first hand knowledge and therefore have to be in a better position to judge than we are.

But what then irritates me, is that there is little or no attempt to explain the decisions that are being made. Why is Capstick chosen over Tuima in the row? Or Bailey or Molina? What has happened to Skinner? Do we absolutely have to be playing Henry at 10 and if so why? Is Hammersley now regarded as a centre? Or is this a temporary move resulting from injuries? Is there a reason why there is virtually no continuity of selection at half back and in midfield?

The coaches are under no contractual obligation to explain selections, and if the team are winning, then who am I to question their choices.

But with the run of results that we are seeing, I dont think that its healthy for there to be this lack of engagement with the supporters. It smacks of arrogance. Or stubbornness. It certainly seems to be a lack of respect for those who ultimately pay the wages.

I dont like criticising the coaches. But equally, I dont like being unable to understand and defend their decisions either.

Ive given up trying to predict results. Experience so far this season says that I'd be crazy to predict a win. But I cant understand why a loss should be the most likely outcome.

Chiefs 24 Glos 23. I dont really believe that though.

Quote:

Not Manichean
As others have said, there are a lot of selections here that just don't make sense to me. I try and reconcile that by just accepting that the coaches are close to it, have decades of experience and first hand knowledge and therefore have to be in a better position to judge than we are.
But what then irritates me, is that there is little or no attempt to explain the decisions that are being made. Why is Capstick chosen over Tuima in the row? Or Bailey or Molina? What has happened to Skinner? Do we absolutely have to be playing Henry at 10 and if so why? Is Hammersley now regarded as a centre? Or is this a temporary move resulting from injuries? Is there a reason why there is virtually no continuity of selection at half back and in midfield?

The coaches are under no contractual obligation to explain selections, and if the team are winning, then who am I to question their choices.

But with the run of results that we are seeing, I dont think that its healthy for there to be this lack of engagement with the supporters. It smacks of arrogance. Or stubbornness. It certainly seems to be a lack of respect for those who ultimately pay the wages.

I dont like criticising the coaches. But equally, I dont like being unable to understand and defend their decisions either.

Ive given up trying to predict results. Experience so far this season says that I'd be crazy to predict a win. But I cant understand why a loss should be the most likely outcome.

Chiefs 24 Glos 23. I dont really believe that though.

It would be interesting to know which players are out of contract at the end of the season. That knowledge may well explain some of the more bizzare selections. It used to be that players who were known to be leaving were "rusticated" "ostracized" or just left out of the team, call it what you will.

That worked when we had players waiting to "step up to the plate" and glad to grab the opportunity to stake their claim for a jersey next year. These days there is nothing on the plate and therefore no reason to step up to it (it's a sort of pun and not a good one).

There is a huge difference between players who are doing well in training and players who are not doing well in training because thay have an alternative view. half decent coaches can spot that and reconcile those differences. I'm not sure that ours can any more

I would say that Sale winning away and not letting Bristol score may put last weeks outing in terrible conditions in a different light. I can see us winning on Sunday, but it will be a close thing, let’s hope anyway.

"...I can only think that there are non playing issues related to the non selection of certain players ..."

Players are being dropped for no apparent reason, they are within their rights to question why, so they know what to work on in training, problem is, in most cases, they are not technically doing anything wrong, they are doing as told, but it is those instructions that are not working !

This is why players are becoming hacked off, it is a case of the coaches saying this is what we want, if you cant do it, we'll try someone else !

Home advantage should help us but I can see another 10 minute brainfart happening.
Each team announcement becomes more bewildering. As previously stated, we don't have a Scooby Do what's happening behind the scenes which is causing the negative speculation.
Please to see PBB on the team sheet.

Hoping for a Glos bad day at the office but Chiefs 24 Glos 25

Does anyone know how Niall Armstrong and Ethan Burger are doing?

Quote:

Currychef
Please to see PBB on the team sheet.

It would be good, but he isn't, other than on mommentum's predicted team on P1 of this thread!

Quote:

ExeterFan

Quote:

Currychef
Please to see PBB on the team sheet.

It would be good, but he isn't, other than on mommentum's predicted team on P1 of this thread!

Oh, yes. Not so pleased then!

Still on the medication, so

Chiefs 24 - 22 Glaws

In the same article it says that Baxter and Hepher have both been in place since 2009 and Hunter (forwards coach) since 2013. That's great in so many ways, but must also be pretty stale by now. Any organisation needs a managed flow of new blood and fresh thinking

I realise retrospect is a wonderful thing, but maybe the writing was on the wall? Also, TR's involvement may soon be coming to its natural & inevitable conclusion. What do you all think?

COYC[/quote]

you do in some new blood every year, and we did by changing 80% of our players, you cant change the coaches and players in the same season.

would a new coach be able to bring in players like George Ford, LCD and Jonny Hill with no money?

No money is the answer we are not cash rich and its been showing for a long time, no decent signings the management are in a predicament where they dont know which way to turn, do they up the prices a disaster, do they bring in new blood the same problem, whats needed in my view is R pellow takes over and Baxter concentrates on the sighing of better propect players and removing the dead wood ,because thats why we are in a mess at the moment. Also its been the old school boys for to long it does not bode well , to many players on the naughty step and punished when they should be playing.It will be close tomorrow i think chiefs 23 Gloucester 27

Quote:

keithbar54
No money is the answer we are not cash rich and its been showing for a long time, no decent signings the management are in a predicament where they dont know which way to turn, do they up the prices a disaster, do they bring in new blood the same problem, whats needed in my view is R pellow takes over and Baxter concentrates on the sighing of better propect players and removing the dead wood ,because thats why we are in a mess at the moment. Also its been the old school boys for to long it does not bode well , to many players on the naughty step and punished when they should be playing.It will be close tomorrow i think chiefs 23 Gloucester 27

Building on that, look at Diamond at Newcastle. He's recruited some proper moneyball signings who have raised the standards (look at Ethan Grayson, for example).

And as a result of his lucid communication as a coach, the squad is playing for him. They've won two games this season, most notably against - on paper - a far superior Saracens side.

I remain of the belief that we have the right players, but they're not playing for the coaches because they don't believe in them.

Cueto wasn't in touch, at least in my dreams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:16:20:47 by StanWilks.

Not sure on that stan, I personally think its a bit of both the league has got harder and some of our players do not quite cut it, as for the coaches they are lost, only my view tho.

So Stan, you agree with Eric Morecombe in so much that :

we are playing all the right players, just not necessarily in the right order !! Ho Ho Ho

In all seriousness, our selection has become a complete shambles which further demonstrates that the coaches are really clutching at straws, have no idea how to fix things and have lost the dressing room.

Personally, I think we have a bunch of very exciting young players that most clubs would be delighted to poach.

Hodge, Tuima, Bailey, Jenkins, Manny, Christ, Armstrong, Bell, Rigg, Wyatt, Cairns, Coen, Brown Bampoe, Vintcent, Fisilau, Frost, John, Ridl, Wimbush etc etc.

Tell me honestly which of those were poor signings?

The problems as I see it it, more or less in order, are;

Confidence, leadership, morale, enjoyment, selection, inconsistency of selection, poor communication from coaches and leadership, poor tactics and specific skills (offloading, ruck resources and jackalling) rigidity of gameplan, and tying all of these together, overcoaching.

These same players (mostly) got off to a stormer last season. The same players are doing well against good teams in the Premiership Cup matches. Many of them have been selected at international level by quality coaches.

I am sad to say that I fully expect many of them to be playing in trophy winning teams for other clubs.

Baxter, Pellow and Thomas were largely responsible for recruiting these guys. Let Baxter go back upstairs (again) and hand over the reins to Pellow and Thomas.

I think that few of us truly have a finger on the politics at the highest level, i certainly don't, but it surely must be becoming obvious to them soon what the remedy is.

Continuing with my optimism:
Exeter31 - 19 Gloucester

Quote:

keithbar54
Not sure on that stan, I personally think its a bit of both the league has got harder and some of our players do not quite cut it, as for the coaches they are lost, only my view tho.

The league is definitely far more competitive as a result of having fewer teams (not that anyone with a heart wanted that), but we're 3-3 in the Prem Cup. Pellow was picking all the right players.

But I would agree that, weirdly, our squad is too big.

Cueto wasn't in touch, at least in my dreams.

Quote:

Broken arrow
So Stan, you agree with Eric Morecombe in so much that :
we are playing all the right players, just not necessarily in the right order !! Ho Ho Ho

In all seriousness, our selection has become a complete shambles which further demonstrates that the coaches are really clutching at straws, have no idea how to fix things and have lost the dressing room.

If you're referring to the madness of starting a natural born winger at centre (Hammersley) time and time again, I am completely with you. 😂

The less said about Rigg and Skinner the better. At this rate we could have a Rebellion XV featuring all the Chiefs players who have rubbed the coaches the wrong way!

Cueto wasn't in touch, at least in my dreams.

A quick glance at the Table shows where our woes lie. Whilst our defence has conceded roughly the same number of points as the clubs from 2nd to 8th have, our offence is 100 ponts behind those teams i.e. we are scoring at least two tries less per game than the teams above us (excluding Newcastle). You can't be that inefficient at offence and expect to be anywhere other than drifting along at the bottom.

Surely the evidence demands that a replacement attack coach (or strategy) is of the greatest and most immediate importance if we are to avoid the relegation playoff games.

Hodge, Tuima, Bailey, Jenkins, Manny, Christ, Armstrong, Bell, Rigg, Wyatt, Cairns, Coen, Brown Bampoe, Vintcent, Fisilau, Frost, John, Ridl, Wimbush

Hi NM, whilst I agree with most of your post, I do have a slightly different view regarding the quality of our signings, of those you list I agree with Hodge, Manny, Wyatt and Vintcent, I remain unconvinced about the other players, they are all good players but have not yet, IMO, proven they are Prem standard. There is no comparison to the likes of Nowell, Slade, Hill x2, Simmonds x2, Maunder, Flats, LCD, etc, etc.. when they all first came on the scene and made their debuts. What I will say is that they did have the benefit of playing with some incredibly experienced players, which todays players do not have.
Much is said about how young our squad is, the reality is that the average age of our squad is the same as Bath, Quins and Saints and only 1 year younger than Bristol, Glos, Newcastle and Sale !
I am afraid that I remain in the camp that says the quality of our players along with our coaching team, just isnt good enough to compete.
A fresh approach is urgently needed.

Totally agree with you BA tweek 3 to 4 players and it will be a different ball game the coaches probably no this but no money available, hence we lost the likes of Kata, Grondona to name just a few.

I think the issue is the coaches x4 signed extended LONG term contracts in Dec 22 according to the offfy and based on that you would expect them to be here next season. To get rid of them it would cost I expect north of £750k a tidy sum hence the dilemma. KB the offy also said we were not going to offer Grondona a contract hence why he left. Baxter is in charge of contracts and signings so our squad is his baby. The selection of players match day I would assume falls on the Head Coach but who knows!

I just hope we can show a bit of sparkle today the fans have supported in big numbers to get a full house but it can’t be a happy camp whatever the coaches say in their staged pre and post match videos.

I don't have any confidence in this prediction, but I'm going for a Chiefs win - Exe 24 Glaws 21

Ross Vintcent is out with illness with Rusi Tuima coming onto the bench

Tuima will wear 19 and Franco Molina will wear 20.

Dafydd Jenkins is also struggling with illness apparently but will play.

NM - completely agree with your last post.
BA - perhaps the problem with those you are less sure of is that they haven't had a good run of games, and they're so focused on not being dropped, what brought them to RBs attention is being stifled.
I'm sure there is an issue with the long term coaching contracts signed, but at the time most (all?) of us applauded the stability. There's little debate that we have an exciting squad. It falls on the coaches to make the right selections, and there's the rub. None of us really understand what's happening behind the scenes AND in the coaches plan, but as they have long contracts, they're not too concerned at experimenting a little ... Causing us much consternation.
Whilst I share many concerns expressed on here, I'm still keeping the faith. It's tough, and I'm not expecting too much from next week's game, but my gut tells me to hold on for better things are very close. I really hope the squad feels the same.🤞

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.