Notts...now or never
Sponsoree In!!
By Grockle
July 31 2009
James Hildreth has a stomach bug and that allows "Wes the Grocklee" his first Championship start of the season. Max Waller is back taking Stiff's place. It's fresh and clear, toss won and we are going to bat. Will Marcus pass 1000 this morning? He needs 21. Big big game. Our Championship hopes may rest on it .
v Nottinghamshire LVCC @ Taunton Friday 31 July 2009
The eleven forbrthis game includes one surprise name. Wes Durston is picked to replace James Hildreth who has a stomach bug. As Mike suggested yesterday on the forum, Dave Stiff stays with the seconds and max Waller comes in as the spin option. Other than that the side is as predicted;
Marcus T, Arul, JL, ZdB, Wes, Pete, Craig, Alf, Max, ARC and Charl
We win a toss!! We choose to bat in fresh and bright conditions. An apt description of our first few overs facing Sidebottom from the OP and Pattinson from the River. Marcus is in full flow and we take 23 off the first 3 overs with Banger in front with 18. A swat to the Somerset Stand confirms our man's position as the permier English born batsman in his position as he becomes the first to pass 1000 - surprised that it's this late in the season but no surprise that Marcus is the man.
However, he doesn't stay long after that as a ball gets past his forward defensive and is snicked to first slip where Ali Brown says 'thanks'. It's 45 for 1 but the conversation is about things like Bobby Robson's demise, Steffan playing for Derbyshire against Kent and wickets falling in clumps at Edgbaston. Here, out comes Justin to a muted welcome.
I'm not sure what I expected on his first appearance after breaking the Aussie run record but there's nothing special about his walk to the wicxket at his home ground today. Nevertheless he gets down to work with his partner and they work at accumulating three figures before lunch with Arul producing some absolutely sublime straight cover drives illustrating his confidence at feeling he is an established part of this side for probably the first time in his Somerset career. The 100 comes up off Ealham in the 24th and we go in at lunch with one wicket down and 110 runs on the scoreboard.
Back from lunch and Adams opens at the OP and normal service resumes very quickly. Langer is playing the scoring role here while his partner acts as anchor playing the odd cover drive to great effect but allowing his skipper to make the running. It is JL who passes 50 first - 58 balls and 7 fours - (although coming from a double figure defecit at the start of his innings) at 128 in the 34th over. He's made a score into the high 60's as his side move past 150 in the 40th off the first over of spin by Patel. Arul is seemingly marooned in the mid 40's and presently you'd put money on Langer getting to a hundred before our opener passes the mid point.
However after 126 balls and 6 fours he goes past the five zero with another superb squarish drive at 167 for 1 in the 43rd. But an excellent established innnings is cut short by a great lifting ball from Sidebottom which catches his bat as he pulls it out of the way. Loads of lift surprise our man and his hands aren't soft enough and it's 167 for 2 with Zander taking his place.
We then come up against the Ryan Sidebottom talked about for Test places!! He gets a spell together which sees the back of Justin at 172 for 76 with a straight one he plays around and Wes follows him 2 balls later snicking one going away to Read (don't let us sponsor you if we ask guys!!). 172 for 2 becomes 172 for 4 and Sidebottom shuts us down in the next two overs with some hostile bowling - the first we've seen really. Craig joins ZdB for the pull to Tea but it's a slower Somerset who push past 200 in the 54th and look to the break to calm the Notts attack down.
As the 50 partnership comes up on 222 Patel comes back into the attack and the wind starts to pick up suggesting we may not miss that afternoon rain that was predicted to be heading this way from the tip of Cornwall. I'm on the radio after the Tea break so you'll have to hear up to date stuff there and I'll fill in the gaps later this evening.
Tea comes and goes with no more problems for the two Somerset batsmen and after the break the two settle into a specific couple of roles. Ealham and Patel continue for the visitors and Zander becomes the 'strike rotator' of the pairing while Craig looks to push the score along, especially off Patel. This works to some extent although mark ealham is no slouch and a canny cricketer. Despite the fact that the young keeper steps to leg and cuts the spinner and deposits one of his deliveries into the Tone they do not get away and Notts hold us in check.
The field placings are promoting the drive and both players take the opportunity when it comes. Unfortunately one drive by Kieswetter is not really there for it and gets 'big' on our man so he edges it to Read and departs for a good 67 just before the new ball is taken.
He is replaced by Peter Trego with Sidebottom and Adams taking the new ball and some 18 overs of the day still available and the home side at 280. The fields become attacking and everything is designed to promote Zander to off dirve Sidebottom, nick it and go. he simply drives square into a huge gap and takes the england man for 8 off two balls. They stop this idea.
Adams takes the new ball at the River end to try and temp Trego but that doesn't have the desired effect either and we continue to accumulate over the 300 run mark. The weather has started to turn and we have spots of rain but nothing too serious. However the officials beg to differ in their opinion of the position and after three discussions they take the players off for bad light with only 2 overs of the new ball completed. It's 316 for 5 and that is the end of the first day. the crowd know they aren't coming back well before the officials call it a day and we all leave the ground in conditions that would suggest winter hasn't yet finished rather than summer is halfway through.
Back tomorrow though. Everyone pray for another dry day. We took this one I think. We were talking to a group of Aussies over from Melbourne for a wedding and after showing them the place where Justin changed up to a month ago and the fact that both Jamie Cox (the 'run machine' as they called him) and Shane Lee played here, we asked them what they had enjoyed. All three said that watching 'the man with guts' Marcus Trescothick bat was their highlight. "Thank God he doesn't play test any more" was one statement. But they all gave him huge amounts of credit for coming out and making his situation plain for all to see.
Good on ya mates.
Day 2
The rain ensures that the day doesn't really start until 3:50 in the afternoon when the weather breaks. The great thing is that we got 42 overs in with a 7:50 end to proceedings although it nearly wasn't that promising because Sidebottom had another international spell and we staggered past 400 with a Caddick flash over the slips and declared with full bonus points on 401. Excellent innings from Zander de Bruyn, solid performance once again from Peter Trego.
402 to get 251 to save the follow on. Big session this evening with a good weather day forcast for tomorrow and a patchy last day forecast. Matt Wood walks out with trialist Scott Newman to show us hw he has developed and he does that with a really confident start against Willoughby and Caddick in particular (who opens the bowling suggesting that the selectors now think he is in the zone).
If Newman is on trial as a possible opener for the visitors then on the basis if that evening's play I'd get his name n a cntract as quickly as possible. You would have been hard put to identify which was the newcommer to this side, he looked like he had been opening for Notts for his whole career. It's a hard session for the batsmen though because although it isn't raining it's warm and overcast. That becomes the problem for Matt who gets bogged down on 9 and eventually doesn't go fully at a ball and flips an easy catch to Suppiah. First blood and with 15 overs to go they send in a nightwatchman in Franks (although we did think later it was probably to keep the left/right combination going rather than to protect other batsmen).
It doesn't matter much because Charl gets him to nibble one to the keeper at 37 and Notts revert back to the normal batting line-up by sending in Voges in next (still left/right partnership though). He looks more of the real deal and the two men move the score on against the triumvirate of Caddick, Thomas and Willoughby. ARC is not the speedy force he once was but he is getting bounce and he is making sure that no batsman assumes he is aspent force by fooling them n a regular basis if they get complacent. He is by no means a passenger in this side and this is re-inforced when the next wicket goes to him courtesy of an absolutely superb diving catch from that man Arul from the bat of Voges 3 for 73.
With Ryan Sidebottom arriving at the wicket as the second nightwatchman and with about 4 overs to go, Langer turns to spin from Arul. He causes Newman so many problems that it makes him turn to Waller for the last couple and he nearly has Sidebottom who misses one and is fooled by another.
End of the day and Notts at 77 for 3. There are prospects for us to get somewhere in this game with a good spell tomorrow.
Day 3
There is a smattering of hope as the third day dawns cloudy and overcast. It gets better when Willow dismisses Ryan moving in front of his stumps and not hitting the ball before 100 hits the two working scoreboards (97. However, Newman is still making the most of his debut and Patel is a worthy partner as the two Outlaws put on 50 before Caddick gets Patel caught down the legside by Kieswetter at 147 and Arul has the opener LBW without an increase to the score for a vitally important 87 for his side. Hope rises again but Notts bat a long way down and two of the wickets are tailenders so we are still in the Notts middle. Read and Brown are at the crease and determined to take their side over the follow on pooint of 251. They look certain to do it as well as they go past 200 in the 63rd over and Justin turns to the spin of Max to try and manufacture a breakthrough in the 220's. Not a bad situation to be in for an up and coming spinner. Being asked by your record breaking captain to come on and worry Ali Brown with the score on 222.
What more can you do than have the great man caught behind off your 3rd delivery trying to cut a ball too close to him. Yayy!!! Goeee Max! But Read is not to be swayed from his task as captain and just after he goes past 50 (off 71 balls with 11 fours in the 73rd over, he steers his side past the follow on total.
Wesley gets his opportunity with the ball in the 78th to many people's surprise and the captain turns to spin at both ends bringing Waller on at the OP in the next over. However the rain stops the scoring before that and the umpires take the sides off at 3:05 just before an almost tropical rainstorm and we arrive at Tea a little early with Notts at 272 for 7./
Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:54
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:11:32:00 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:11:32:00 by Grockle.
Notts injury Worries
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/07/2009 10:57
Nottinghamshire batsman Mark Wagh faces a race against time to be fit for the County Championship match at Somerset which begins on Friday. [news.bbc.co.uk]
Re: Notts injury Worries
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 27/07/2009 11:19
If it rains like it is doing today it will make not one iota of difference
Re: Notts injury Worries
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 27/07/2009 19:50
We'll be fine, assuming Tres and PT arent called up to replace KP and Freddy...
Re: Notts injury Worries
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 29/07/2009 22:41
I see that Surrey batter Scott Newman, currently on a month`s loan at Nottinghamshire and due to make his championship debut for them at Taunton on Friday, scored just 16 and 21 opening the batting for Notts Seconds against Worcestershire II at the weekend.
Championship teams
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 30/07/2009 15:07
Although Nottinghamshire have named a squad of 13 for Taunton tomorrow, Matt Wood will definitely open alongside Scott Newman, on loan from Surrey.
The 13 are: Newman, Wood, Patel, Voges, Brown, Read,
Franks, Ealham, Adams, Pattinson, Sidebottom, Shreck and Fletcher.
I see David Stiff is included in Somerset Seconds for this week`s three-day match against MCC Combined Universities at Taunton Vale - first day washed out yesterday.
Is this just to get him further into rhythm before he is called into the first team tomorrow, or will we see a change in the championship bowling line-up? Perhaps Max Waller in for Stiff.
The 13 are: Newman, Wood, Patel, Voges, Brown, Read,
Franks, Ealham, Adams, Pattinson, Sidebottom, Shreck and Fletcher.
I see David Stiff is included in Somerset Seconds for this week`s three-day match against MCC Combined Universities at Taunton Vale - first day washed out yesterday.
Is this just to get him further into rhythm before he is called into the first team tomorrow, or will we see a change in the championship bowling line-up? Perhaps Max Waller in for Stiff.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 30/07/2009 16:56
Dioubt they will pull him out for the firsts so you're probably right.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 30/07/2009 19:33
For all the fact that he's taken plenty of wickets, he also seems to have had considerable good fortune. I suspect that Langer/Rose want him to show more control than he has been able to, thus far.
It might be the case that they want to give him a long bowl in the seconds, to try to find the requisite accuracy. In the firsts, he often has to be limited to short stints as he goes around the park a bit too much to be given long spells.
Throughout the recent run - including the three wins - I've felt that we're picking one seamer too many.
Hopefully, if Stiff has been left out, that is an encouraging commentary on where Langer/Rose believe ARC is at.
It might be the case that they want to give him a long bowl in the seconds, to try to find the requisite accuracy. In the firsts, he often has to be limited to short stints as he goes around the park a bit too much to be given long spells.
Throughout the recent run - including the three wins - I've felt that we're picking one seamer too many.
Hopefully, if Stiff has been left out, that is an encouraging commentary on where Langer/Rose believe ARC is at.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 30/07/2009 20:48
We've had no real option about the one seamer too many because Langer only has one 'go to' spinner in his arsenal and Max was injured.
I doubt Omari is seen as a long term option and it does seem that the selectors do not rate Wes as a bowling option in any format.
I doubt Omari is seen as a long term option and it does seem that the selectors do not rate Wes as a bowling option in any format.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 30/07/2009 23:16
Max in for Stiffy is a good move for me.
Le todays dry weather leads to a prompt start tomorrow.
Bat first big 1st inns total then put the pressure on over the weekend, realy need a win from this one.
Feel we need at least 4 more wins to challenge for the title inot 5, Notts and Durham being the most important two...
Le todays dry weather leads to a prompt start tomorrow.
Bat first big 1st inns total then put the pressure on over the weekend, realy need a win from this one.
Feel we need at least 4 more wins to challenge for the title inot 5, Notts and Durham being the most important two...
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 08:39
Given Justin's comments on the 4th day pitch, I doubt he'll opt to bat first, if given the choice.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 08:57
Weather clear and dry in Bicknoller. Info on the situation online from 10:30=ish. Commentary on for this one via the match report and the official site. I'm on at Tea today so internet comment welcomed for the third session of the day.
Let's hope for a good solid dry day.
Later dudes
Let's hope for a good solid dry day.
Later dudes
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Ronniesabre (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:02
I see from JL's interview that big Ben can't play today for personal reasons..don't know what these are but there always seems to be something with the big guy which prevents his progress.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:02
Stiff is named amongst 13 for this one, so hasn't (at least yet) been "left out".
If it were my decision, and from what I've seen from scorecards and heard from commentaries, and given that wickets are at a premium if we are to win, it would be a very close call between him and Caddick right now.
If it were my decision, and from what I've seen from scorecards and heard from commentaries, and given that wickets are at a premium if we are to win, it would be a very close call between him and Caddick right now.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:51
The team posted on cricinfo includes Max AND Wes, plus Arul. Is that right?
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: samaithai2 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:52
Somerset win toss and bat. Durston for Hildreth, Waller for Stiff
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: 1 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:52
Trescothick, Suppiah, Langer (C), de Bruyn, Durston, Kieswetter (W), Trego, Thomas, Mx Waller, Caddick, Willoughby
Somerset won the toss and elected to bat
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:31:10:55:18 by everhopefull.
Somerset won the toss and elected to bat
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:31:10:55:18 by everhopefull.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 10:56
What's happened to Hildreth.He was named in the squad yesterday as was Banks and Stiff but not Wes. Team looks good to me
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:00
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Is Hildreth injured or dropped?
Either way, a BIG day for "our" Wesley.
Is Hildreth injured or dropped?
Either way, a BIG day for "our" Wesley.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:49
Sidebottom went for 16 off his first two, then bowled 3 successive maidens. Bizarre!
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 12:21
What's Hildreth's injury?
Adams really does have a first-rate record as a bowler and he's proven a pain again.
Adams really does have a first-rate record as a bowler and he's proven a pain again.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 13:07
Does anybody know whether we've started this game on a used pitch at all? I was surprised we batted, given Langer's view that it's not really possible to bowl people out on the final day. But we have included young Max and we did decide to bat first.
I wonder if that might possibly suggest a used surface or, at the very least, something which is drier than is the norm? (despite all the rain)
I wonder if that might possibly suggest a used surface or, at the very least, something which is drier than is the norm? (despite all the rain)
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 13:20
"Nine times out of ten - bat first. The other time - think about it for a while; and then bat anyway."
Your best chance of winning a four day game is to bat first, bat big, and bat once: almost irrespective of the pitch.
With rain around, even more so.
Your best chance of winning a four day game is to bat first, bat big, and bat once: almost irrespective of the pitch.
With rain around, even more so.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 13:42
Yes, FE, that's the Colin Cowdrey maxim but I'm not sure that we have necessarily held true to it in home games with the regularity that one would ordinarily expect from a team which has what is regarded as a plum batting track.
Also - the maxim has (or at least had) not, as of a few weeks ago held true in this year's CC. I seem to remember, a few weeks ago, that it was said that a high proportion of the wins in this year's CC have been won by the side batting last.
Also - the maxim has (or at least had) not, as of a few weeks ago held true in this year's CC. I seem to remember, a few weeks ago, that it was said that a high proportion of the wins in this year's CC have been won by the side batting last.
Re: Championship teams
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 13:47
W.G. Grace actually.
Neil Edwards
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:43
The Telegraph report Notts have approached Neil.
Two years ago they signed Woodie when they were playing us at Taunton.
Is history going to be repeated?
Two years ago they signed Woodie when they were playing us at Taunton.
Is history going to be repeated?
Re: Neil Edwards
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:57
Yep thought it was Notts. We suggested as much a couple of weeks ago. He should go for his own development. Though it hasn't been a good move for Woody particularly and they are seriously looking at Newman.
Could Neil be fighting Woody for his place.
Could Neil be fighting Woody for his place.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 13:57
There is a world of difference between saying "it's tough to take wickets even on the last day at Taunton" and saying "we actively want to bat last because day four is the best time to bat".
And the point which Grockle has made more than once, and which is being persistently ignored, is that one would expect Langer to have said nothing else at the end of a fourth day on which we hadn't taken all of the required wickets. All press comments have to be digested in context.
And the point which Grockle has made more than once, and which is being persistently ignored, is that one would expect Langer to have said nothing else at the end of a fourth day on which we hadn't taken all of the required wickets. All press comments have to be digested in context.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:19
I'd love to give you the context that Mr Frost operates within but unfortunately he doesn't have the right of reply in a public forum.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:33
Where did you get the Grace thing, FE?
I've always heard it attributed to Cowdrey and never to Grace.
I've always heard it attributed to Cowdrey and never to Grace.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:35
Incidentally, the commentators have said after lunch that the pitch 'looks dry.'
p.s I don't think Langer said that it's difficult to take wickets 'even ,' on the last day. I don't think even was within his sentence and I took what he said to mean that he thinks it's especially difficult to take wickets on the last day.
p.s I don't think Langer said that it's difficult to take wickets 'even ,' on the last day. I don't think even was within his sentence and I took what he said to mean that he thinks it's especially difficult to take wickets on the last day.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:46
50 curse strikes Arul again.
I think we are going to have to reverse our usual policy of not saying 'well played,' when he gets to 50 for fear of hexing things. Next time he gets to 50 can everyone post warm congrats and see if that makes a difference...
Incidentally, I had a look in Wisden as my impression was that Langer does not regularly choose to bat when he wins the toss at home.
In fact, Langer won only three tosses during 2007 and 2008 at home. He batted on one of those occasions. 3 out of 16 looks like a very low toss-winning rate, so I'd guess we must be due some wins at home this season.
I think we are going to have to reverse our usual policy of not saying 'well played,' when he gets to 50 for fear of hexing things. Next time he gets to 50 can everyone post warm congrats and see if that makes a difference...
Incidentally, I had a look in Wisden as my impression was that Langer does not regularly choose to bat when he wins the toss at home.
In fact, Langer won only three tosses during 2007 and 2008 at home. He batted on one of those occasions. 3 out of 16 looks like a very low toss-winning rate, so I'd guess we must be due some wins at home this season.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:49
Well, here comes Wesley's possible last big chance for SCCC.
I'd love to see him make a really big score to put the cat among the pigeons.
Tricky time now, could quickly be 5 down and in the mire.
I'd love to see him make a really big score to put the cat among the pigeons.
Tricky time now, could quickly be 5 down and in the mire.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 15:12
Well scuppered, AG!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 15:32
Quote:AGod
Where did you get the Grace thing, FE?
Sources too numerous to cite here.
Quote:AGod
I've always heard it attributed to Cowdrey and never to Grace.
The gaps in your education are not my responsibility, dear boy!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 15:40
My search yielded only one reference to Grace as the source.
But, admittedly, it yielded only two to Cowdrey as the source.
But, admittedly, it yielded only two to Cowdrey as the source.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 15:48
ryan Sidebottom is into a blistering spell guys and gals. In times like these you wonder why he's here and not somewhere else making up the third with Anderson and Onions. First time today though he's looked this good.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 17:04
Grockle should know better
it's TrEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEgo
it's TrEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEgo
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 17:14
Is he "Tray"-ing, again?
He claimed the other day to be cured!
He claimed the other day to be cured!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 17:21
Good fun listening, as Peter TREGO seems to be playing with two runners - Peter TREAYGO & Peter TRAYGO.
Must be interesting to watch !
Grizzzly
Must be interesting to watch !
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 17:28
AG: Mike Atherton, in his book "A test of Cricket: Know the Game", attributes the quote to WG. That's good enough for me.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 18:03
Are they off? Cricinfo score not moved from 316-5...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 18:07
BLSP, SP.
Is Grockle online? Is that likely to be it for the day?
If so it would seem a pretty good day: 7 or 8 out of 10?
Is Grockle online? Is that likely to be it for the day?
If so it would seem a pretty good day: 7 or 8 out of 10?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 19:33
Langer LBW again.Wonder if he's been to Specsavers
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 20:26
Not really BR - good Siddybottem ball. very straight, very fast
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 20:26
Langer lbw to easily the best ball Sidebottom bowled all day.
Ryan looked every bit a Test bowler for about three overs in mid-afternoon, but for the remainder of the time appeared 70 per cent fit at the very most.
Ryan looked every bit a Test bowler for about three overs in mid-afternoon, but for the remainder of the time appeared 70 per cent fit at the very most.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 20:39
Isn't that the sort of ball you'd expect a person of his class to fend off with his bat?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 20:54
Not when the bowler he's facing has shown no level of class near it for the past 30+ balls except for one to Arul.
Wanna mention the 70+ runs he made as well BR if you want to give both sides of the innings? Didn't miss many during that part of the day
Wanna mention the 70+ runs he made as well BR if you want to give both sides of the innings? Didn't miss many during that part of the day
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 21:13
Whilst I appreciate he played well today I am still concerned that he's regularly getting out LBW.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 21:15
Realy poor decision to come of for light.
New ball was taken, we smashed it for 9 in first over, no problems the 2nd yet umpires take them off.
Realy wasnt that bad, certainly not dangerous.
Within 30 mins it worsened but by then they'd wasted those 30 mins.
Am i right that this years new res state bad light is purely down to umpires judgement? No light meters, no offering to batsmen, just umpires judgement, sure thats right.
If so their judgement is rubbish.
I have seen full days in april played in identcal light all day, realy is one of the things that hurts cricket when trying to promote it to newcomers especially
New ball was taken, we smashed it for 9 in first over, no problems the 2nd yet umpires take them off.
Realy wasnt that bad, certainly not dangerous.
Within 30 mins it worsened but by then they'd wasted those 30 mins.
Am i right that this years new res state bad light is purely down to umpires judgement? No light meters, no offering to batsmen, just umpires judgement, sure thats right.
If so their judgement is rubbish.
I have seen full days in april played in identcal light all day, realy is one of the things that hurts cricket when trying to promote it to newcomers especially
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 21:26
I've no problem with LBW as long as he's hitting centuries and plus 50 scores before it. Batsmen miss balls, older batsmen miss more but he's 2 dismissals for about 200 so I'm pretty OK with it at moment.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:31:23:10:13 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:31:23:10:13 by Grockle.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 21:55
Today’s photos.
Marcus Trescothick scoring his 1000 first class runs for the season
There was a mention of taking longer to get a 1000 runs, in 2003 (a random year) the 10th championship match started on the 9th July, the season fixtures is so different now.
Justin Langer did have a better innings today you could tell he was looking more at ease. Before the match started he was in the nets on a one to one with a bowler.
Nice innings again from Kieswetter this is one of his ten fours he hit.
What do they say watch the ball onto the bat, Kieswetter certainly does that.
There may not be any photos tomorrow I have somebody viewing my bungalow at 2pm I am not sure if I will make a late trip to Taunton.
Marcus Trescothick scoring his 1000 first class runs for the season
There was a mention of taking longer to get a 1000 runs, in 2003 (a random year) the 10th championship match started on the 9th July, the season fixtures is so different now.
Justin Langer did have a better innings today you could tell he was looking more at ease. Before the match started he was in the nets on a one to one with a bowler.
Nice innings again from Kieswetter this is one of his ten fours he hit.
What do they say watch the ball onto the bat, Kieswetter certainly does that.
There may not be any photos tomorrow I have somebody viewing my bungalow at 2pm I am not sure if I will make a late trip to Taunton.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 22:05
Obviously not cricket fans Mike.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 22:20
I don't care if they buy it Rob.
Not there today Rob I hope you are well, I met LoL today, by the end of the season I will have met nearly everybody.
Not there today Rob I hope you are well, I met LoL today, by the end of the season I will have met nearly everybody.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 23:55
Forecast appears slightly more positive now for tomorrow!?
Seems to be clearing by 10-11ish so hopefully wont lose too much
Seems to be clearing by 10-11ish so hopefully wont lose too much
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 00:06
The new ball tactics were very strange. Sidebottom was obviously bowling to a field designed to offer Zander the drive between cover and mid off in the hope he would snick it to the slip cordon.
The cover sweeper was set to pounce on anything nearer to a shot through mid wicket. Unfortunately they picked Zander who drives very well, they bowled a little too far outside the off stump and they put Patel as the cover sweeper.
Ryan bowled, ZdB drove into the gap and Patel was neither tall enough or quick enough to stop the ball going for four. They also didn't learn after the first time it happened hence the runs.
It made no difference what Adams' plan for PT was because the umpires only lert him have six balls before pulling the sides off because of the light.
The cover sweeper was set to pounce on anything nearer to a shot through mid wicket. Unfortunately they picked Zander who drives very well, they bowled a little too far outside the off stump and they put Patel as the cover sweeper.
Ryan bowled, ZdB drove into the gap and Patel was neither tall enough or quick enough to stop the ball going for four. They also didn't learn after the first time it happened hence the runs.
It made no difference what Adams' plan for PT was because the umpires only lert him have six balls before pulling the sides off because of the light.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 00:30
Mike,you have to be there.
I've been granted day release so all being well will be present.
Rob,you can get your backside down there too.
It may be a couple of years before I'm allowed out again.
If ever.
I've been granted day release so all being well will be present.
Rob,you can get your backside down there too.
It may be a couple of years before I'm allowed out again.
If ever.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 08:10
Been raining in Saltford all night.
No chance of play here.
What's it like down south?
No chance of play here.
What's it like down south?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: 1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 08:59
Some rain in the night Rob, very murky at the moment, clouds creeping up the Quantock Hills.
Could be an on an off the field day today.
Glad we have the runs on the board.
Shall I go, shall I not, shall I go shall I not......
Could be an on an off the field day today.
Glad we have the runs on the board.
Shall I go, shall I not, shall I go shall I not......
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 09:03
Dry here.
Dry in Burnham too apparently.
Forecast is for all rain to have cleared the area by 11ish so maybe slightly delayed start i guess but should be good after that, hopefully....
Dry in Burnham too apparently.
Forecast is for all rain to have cleared the area by 11ish so maybe slightly delayed start i guess but should be good after that, hopefully....
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 09:06
Anyone going in from Watchet area?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 10:55
Well, Sidebottom has three wickets and is probably a good bet for five if and when we get back on.
Hoggard recently took five here, too.
The moral of the story is, surely, once again clear - good bowlers CAN and DO take wickets on Mr Frost's tracks.
One of those days where we ended in a decent position but I do find myself wishing we could be a tad more ruthless with the bat. It was another one of those lots of fifties type days with only one guy - poor Wes - experiencing anything even in the same post-code as a failure but no-one (yet) going onto the kind of really big ton which would put Notts (from a winning it point of view) out of the game entirely.
I know we can have the same argument again about 6 fifties equal 300 runs as do one score of 150 and five totalling 150.
But the salient point, to my mind, is that those at the top of the order have no way of knowing - in any given innings- that further 50s will be forthcoming from 4, 5, 6. In an ideal world, the mind-set from 1, 2, 3 should - to my mind - be to assume that nobody else is going to make many runs at all. It's a bit different if you're Pete Trego and are coming in at 7 because you know what at least 5 guys have already done.
Still, Notts are a strong bowling side and Sidebottom clearly slipped himself in the middle of our innings, so this maybe one of those occasions where they bowled out our guys that had made good starts, as opposed to them having their concentration slip.
Incidentally, I think this is Zander's third 50 in three CC innings vs Notts this season. I think he has only one other 50 against other opponents - the massively valuable one at Headingley. I wonder if that suggests he's raising his game against the better attacks and/or when we really need him to score and not concentrating as well vs lesser foes.
Hoggard recently took five here, too.
The moral of the story is, surely, once again clear - good bowlers CAN and DO take wickets on Mr Frost's tracks.
One of those days where we ended in a decent position but I do find myself wishing we could be a tad more ruthless with the bat. It was another one of those lots of fifties type days with only one guy - poor Wes - experiencing anything even in the same post-code as a failure but no-one (yet) going onto the kind of really big ton which would put Notts (from a winning it point of view) out of the game entirely.
I know we can have the same argument again about 6 fifties equal 300 runs as do one score of 150 and five totalling 150.
But the salient point, to my mind, is that those at the top of the order have no way of knowing - in any given innings- that further 50s will be forthcoming from 4, 5, 6. In an ideal world, the mind-set from 1, 2, 3 should - to my mind - be to assume that nobody else is going to make many runs at all. It's a bit different if you're Pete Trego and are coming in at 7 because you know what at least 5 guys have already done.
Still, Notts are a strong bowling side and Sidebottom clearly slipped himself in the middle of our innings, so this maybe one of those occasions where they bowled out our guys that had made good starts, as opposed to them having their concentration slip.
Incidentally, I think this is Zander's third 50 in three CC innings vs Notts this season. I think he has only one other 50 against other opponents - the massively valuable one at Headingley. I wonder if that suggests he's raising his game against the better attacks and/or when we really need him to score and not concentrating as well vs lesser foes.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 12:04
Morning. Play started at 11:40 and ended at 11:42. Mizzle at the moment and grey grey grey. Tarpaulin on the wicket but little else happening. Commentary may be off I'm afraid - connection issues. Ho Hum
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 12:30
Commentary is on now I think (my fiddling so not totally sure can anyone let me know if they are getting it and how it is sounding? Thanks
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: samaithai2 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 12:46
OK. South East Asia Grockle.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 13:26
Won't be a lot to tell you Sam because the big covers are on here and there's little hope of any play for at least a couple f hours I would say. May get away with 90 minutes perhaps.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 13:30
Yep, got it just before the interval, Grockle - many thanks.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 14:18
It looks as though Durham may be struggling for their 5th batting point, having batted too slowly yesterday. The policy is obviously to get a big score regardless of points and rely on Harmy Plunkett anbd IDB to turn the opposition over-which is OK unless it rains.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 14:55
As expected Durham ended up at 384 after 120 0vers. They needed 70 off 10 for their 5th point . To fall short with 7 wickets in hand (for the seconf game running) is bad tactics if they don't win
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 15:23
Brighter here. The present situation is that they've taken Tea at 3:15, are inspecting at 3:30 with the plan to start play at 3:50. It's much clearer over the Quantocks so we just hope there's a break in the weather about the place that lasts a few hours.
Looks promising at the moment.
Commentary on at 3:45 then with luck...talk to you then.
Looks promising at the moment.
Commentary on at 3:45 then with luck...talk to you then.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:03
Thanks, Grockle, I have the commentary on now.
Here's a question - do we accept that a result is unlikely and, therefore, if we get to 400 before they have got full bowling points, do we automatically declare?
I know we're not, technically, allowed to declare to deny them points but surely Langer could say we were declaring to 'go for the win,' without attracting any censure. It would seem reasonable?
Here's a question - do we accept that a result is unlikely and, therefore, if we get to 400 before they have got full bowling points, do we automatically declare?
I know we're not, technically, allowed to declare to deny them points but surely Langer could say we were declaring to 'go for the win,' without attracting any censure. It would seem reasonable?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:06
Tend to agree AG - would give us more time to bowl them out. If matters got badly out of hand & they score 600 odd, we should be able to shut up shop & bat the game out.
If the rain doesn't do it for us !
P.S. Sunny & Plus 31C over here today !!
Grizzzly
If the rain doesn't do it for us !
P.S. Sunny & Plus 31C over here today !!
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:06
Another question - if we have 'no Kolpaks,' next year because Charl has qualified by residence and the other two have been naturalised by marriage, then should we sign the one that we, technically, would be permitted to sign and, if so, what type of player?
Do we know whether or not Zander and Alfonso would count as English for ECB funding purposes or do I understand from what was published the other day that the funding is going to be re-calculated so that it's only available for younger English players anyway?
Do we know whether or not Zander and Alfonso would count as English for ECB funding purposes or do I understand from what was published the other day that the funding is going to be re-calculated so that it's only available for younger English players anyway?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:08
No sign of the big yellow thing here, Grizzly, but that's been par for the course in July and August in each of the past two years and that pattern has, regrettably, held so far this year.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:12
To answer the q. - no I don't think we should sign another Kolpak. Enough already, even if there is a loophole allowing us to do so.
I can't find the link to the commentary AG - can you point me in thr right direction ?
Grizzzly
I can't find the link to the commentary AG - can you point me in thr right direction ?
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:22
Hi Grizzly - you need to go out to the SN front page by clicking on 'cricket,' right at the top of the page. Then click on the Notts game thread (this one) form there and you will see a link to both scorecard and commentary in Grockle's first post that kicks off the thread.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:29
Personally, Grizzly, I think we need to try to find a match-winning spinner from somewhere.
I remain deeply attracted to the idea of finding a decent leg-spinner for Munday/Waller to learn from.
If we could find a decent wrist-spinner that would meet the Kolpak criteria for next year, I'd be sorely tempted to do it.
We also face a potentially HUGE issue with batting depth.... should Wes and Neil leave, then who on earth are we left with by way of back-ups?
Robin Lett, who's played maybe 3 or 4 games and some Academy prospects that have never played a first-class game. Folk have been saying that we've been very lucky in terms of not having injuries to our batsmen .. how long will that luck hold out?
I remain deeply attracted to the idea of finding a decent leg-spinner for Munday/Waller to learn from.
If we could find a decent wrist-spinner that would meet the Kolpak criteria for next year, I'd be sorely tempted to do it.
We also face a potentially HUGE issue with batting depth.... should Wes and Neil leave, then who on earth are we left with by way of back-ups?
Robin Lett, who's played maybe 3 or 4 games and some Academy prospects that have never played a first-class game. Folk have been saying that we've been very lucky in terms of not having injuries to our batsmen .. how long will that luck hold out?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:31
Well done to Alfonso for walking when Ealham, apparently, was not sure that he'd nicked it.
Expect Pete to open his shoulders now and this innings is likely to be over at 400 for something declared or all-out soon, I'd say.
Expect Pete to open his shoulders now and this innings is likely to be over at 400 for something declared or all-out soon, I'd say.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:39
Thanks for the link AG, have got the commentary now. (hey - I just got a mention - fame at last, thans Grockle!!!)
Apart from PT, looks like we are rather 'limping' to 400 !
Take the point re the Kolpaks AG; I guess I just feel uncomfortable with the 'mix' of non-English players versus Kolpaks & wouldn't want to make that situation worse.
It would be nice to see Max become a permanent fixture in the first team & as for the shortage of bowling options, well, maybe PT should get a few more overs !!
Grizzzly
Apart from PT, looks like we are rather 'limping' to 400 !
Take the point re the Kolpaks AG; I guess I just feel uncomfortable with the 'mix' of non-English players versus Kolpaks & wouldn't want to make that situation worse.
It would be nice to see Max become a permanent fixture in the first team & as for the shortage of bowling options, well, maybe PT should get a few more overs !!
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:47
I've also not completely given up hope of Hoggy seeing the attraction of coming to SCCC !
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:49
Yep, Grizzly, and there's also the ECB funding picture to consider as well.
We'll definitely need some back-up batting though, should Neil and Wes both leave.
We'll definitely need some back-up batting though, should Neil and Wes both leave.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:53
Declaration as predicted !
Now, lets rip into them.
Line & length at all costs please,lads.
Grizzzly
Now, lets rip into them.
Line & length at all costs please,lads.
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 16:54
Magnificent stuff from Cadmeister to get us home!! Great stuff from Pete, obviously.
And well bowled to Sidebottom. Wonder if Broad will be vulnerable for Leeds?
And well bowled to Sidebottom. Wonder if Broad will be vulnerable for Leeds?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 17:42
Well done AC.
Hard luck Woody.
Wonder if that has just increased the chances of MW losing his opening spot at Notts. to one Neil Edwards ?
Grizzzly
Hard luck Woody.
Wonder if that has just increased the chances of MW losing his opening spot at Notts. to one Neil Edwards ?
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 17:55
10.55 a.m. over here Grocks. - just time to start the days play !
See if you can arrange another couple of wickets tonight before close of play if you can !
Grizzzly
See if you can arrange another couple of wickets tonight before close of play if you can !
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: samaithai2 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 17:58
Good morning everyone. Just Sunday morning here and long past my chang time. Thanks for the mention.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 17:59
Can I claim that one ?
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Demon of Frome (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 18:01
According to this website:
This is Devon
Mark Lathwell has just changed jobs (doesn't say what either his former or present line of work is) and this has allowed him to play regularly for Braunton.
This is Devon
Mark Lathwell has just changed jobs (doesn't say what either his former or present line of work is) and this has allowed him to play regularly for Braunton.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 18:05
18.05 here in Saltford Grockle
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 18:10
bang, well done charl, 38-2
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 18:46
bang, main man gone, voges out to caddy, 73-3, long way til the follow on.....
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 18:51
Absolutely delighted to have been shown how foolish I was to doubt Caddy!
Foot on throat time, boys!
Foot on throat time, boys!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 19:00
Got to be pleased with that for a day's work.
A pretty good chance, I would have thought, of ending this one with a 2 or 3 more points than Notts get out of it.
A pretty good chance, I would have thought, of ending this one with a 2 or 3 more points than Notts get out of it.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 19:07
Im looking at getting 18-19 points more out of it yet.
If we can bowl them out under 220 and make them folow on who knows, big first session tomorrow, wickets and we can press for a result, big batting day and Monday will be a BORE draw
If we can bowl them out under 220 and make them folow on who knows, big first session tomorrow, wickets and we can press for a result, big batting day and Monday will be a BORE draw
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 21:19
Yes tomorrow culd be a BIG day and the weather is set moderately fair it seems.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/08/2009 21:33
Photos from day 2
A Voges was caught brilliantly by Arul Suppiah off Caddick’s bowling.
Max Waller watching Matt Wood ducking from a bouncer off Caddick.
Marcus Trescothick watching the ball on its way to Kieswetter from Franks bat off Willoughby's bowling
Sidebottom smiling after bouncing Caddick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:01:21:41:52 by Mike BOS.
A Voges was caught brilliantly by Arul Suppiah off Caddick’s bowling.
Max Waller watching Matt Wood ducking from a bouncer off Caddick.
Marcus Trescothick watching the ball on its way to Kieswetter from Franks bat off Willoughby's bowling
Sidebottom smiling after bouncing Caddick.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:01:21:41:52 by Mike BOS.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 00:21
Superb as usual,Mike and an absolute pleasure to meet you today.
I wonder what the gentleman just to the right of Banger has seen in the sky?
Maybe this was the moment the sun eventually appeared.
Or was it even that flying saucer that flew over the ground during the evening session?
I think it could be a huge day tomorrow.
We can win this.
One final word if I may.
Having seen the pitch for the first time in a while I'd like to congratulate Mr Frost and his superb team for yet another fantastic wicket.
To produce such a beautiful strip after 24 consecutive days of rain is a remarkable achievement.
No wonder those in the trade consider him the best in the business.
I wonder what the gentleman just to the right of Banger has seen in the sky?
Maybe this was the moment the sun eventually appeared.
Or was it even that flying saucer that flew over the ground during the evening session?
I think it could be a huge day tomorrow.
We can win this.
One final word if I may.
Having seen the pitch for the first time in a while I'd like to congratulate Mr Frost and his superb team for yet another fantastic wicket.
To produce such a beautiful strip after 24 consecutive days of rain is a remarkable achievement.
No wonder those in the trade consider him the best in the business.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 07:47
It was also good to meet you Jim at last; you certainly fit your name.
It is always better to see things first hand and I should imaging you met a few other nice people yesterday for the first time; you will be able to put faces to names now.
It is always better to see things first hand and I should imaging you met a few other nice people yesterday for the first time; you will be able to put faces to names now.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 11:19
Anybody got a commentary yet?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: samaithai2 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 11:28
not yet over here Rob but the hairy one has departed.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 11:32
I can't get any commentary ATM Rob. Need to get Newman!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 11:33
Thanks Sam.Good start to the day.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 12:14
Must be Trigger time soon
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 12:17
Yes!!!! Great stuff, Arul. Back of the net.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 12:18
Commentary on now
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 12:20
Ealham tends to be vulnerable to wrist-spin, Langer should confront him with Waller, early doors.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 12:21
leg-side strangle of Patel - bad ball and potentially dubious decision, apparently.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:06
No-one in the box thought there was anything strange about it AG when I asked. I wasn't here so not sure myself.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:26
Your colleagues on commentary seemed very dubious about it. A delayed appeal and then Patel looked disgusted apparently.
More importantly another breakthrough as I write/listen!
More importantly another breakthrough as I write/listen!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:38
Glad to hear that, AG.
CricInfo seemed to repeal the decision as soon as it was given!
MUST, MUST, MUST be in a position to enforce the follow-on surely!
CricInfo seemed to repeal the decision as soon as it was given!
MUST, MUST, MUST be in a position to enforce the follow-on surely!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:44
Yeah, not enough time to win other than by an innings or 9/10 wickets or whatever, having enforced the follow-on.
Durham have done just that and with Joyce possibly injured and Goodwin out of form, will probably win yet again. I don't think anyone can complain about the pitch this time, though, given that Durham made 400+ and were not bowled out.
Durham have done just that and with Joyce possibly injured and Goodwin out of form, will probably win yet again. I don't think anyone can complain about the pitch this time, though, given that Durham made 400+ and were not bowled out.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:47
Of course, if we get Notts for less than 300, then I think that would move our edge over them to 12 points from 8 coming into the game. They'd still have a game in hand, but would have to win it to move ahead of us, which was not the position before this game.
That would be a fair outcome in terms of increasing our chances of a 2nd place finish but not a great one in terms of the title, unless Sussex can thwart Durham.
That would be a fair outcome in terms of increasing our chances of a 2nd place finish but not a great one in terms of the title, unless Sussex can thwart Durham.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:50
Follow-on's pretty much gone now, I guess.
But if we can get them for 300 or less and put another 100 on quickly? Who knows.
But if we can get them for 300 or less and put another 100 on quickly? Who knows.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:54
Quite awful performance from Worcs vs Warks, I would imagine. Nelson all-out. I'm sorry, but Neil Carter is not a guy who should be taking 5 for not very many in a first division game, IMO.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 14:59
It's not a great position to decide wicket stuff from where the commentators are sat I'm afraid. I'd rather be judging situations fromt he press box really but it's done and in the book whichever view is taken - as Mr Boycott would say.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 15:00
Cna someone provide a link to the commentary please?
Yesterday there was a thread with a link but that has disappeared and there is nothing I can see on the Official site.
Yesterday there was a thread with a link but that has disappeared and there is nothing I can see on the Official site.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 15:19
Thanks FE, I should have looked in the obvious place.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 16:03
let's hope this rain has freshened things up and we can get shot of them at least before they get to 350, if not before 300.
Having said that if they get to 360 or 370 or so, then we're left in one of those awkward situations with more chance of getting into bother than forging onto win.
Having said that if they get to 360 or 370 or so, then we're left in one of those awkward situations with more chance of getting into bother than forging onto win.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 17:11
So: we're net 45 for 0.
How many overs left today?
How many overs left today?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 17:31
Does Read's innings mean he can bat or we can't bowl?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 17:32
Not enough, I fear.
Can't really see any winning strategy here, especially after Justin's recent comments.
Bad news that Durham are murdering Sussex.
Grizzzly
Can't really see any winning strategy here, especially after Justin's recent comments.
Bad news that Durham are murdering Sussex.
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 18:31
Yep, It's Durham's title to lose. They are looking exceptionally strong.
Sussex are usually quite a good batting side, so I'd expect them to get a draw down here.
Sussex are usually quite a good batting side, so I'd expect them to get a draw down here.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 19:33
Durham 22 pts, Somerset 12 pts.
This could be all wrapped up effectively before we play them.
Just a new battle now for 2nd place i fear...
This could be all wrapped up effectively before we play them.
Just a new battle now for 2nd place i fear...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/08/2009 21:32
Day 3 photos.
Both Read and Ealham frustrated our bowlers today they didn’t seem to be troubled by any of our faster bowlers.
Chris Read hitting 4 runs, hard luck to be out on 98.
M Ealham playing a safe shot over the close fielders with no one out for 4 runs.
This is what we photographers have to put up with, but I can forgive Andy Caddick on the day of the announcement of his retirement.
D Pattinson bld Willoughby.
Why Arul Suppiah only bowled seven overs today only the captain knows.
S Newman trapped lbw by Suppiah
Both Read and Ealham frustrated our bowlers today they didn’t seem to be troubled by any of our faster bowlers.
Chris Read hitting 4 runs, hard luck to be out on 98.
M Ealham playing a safe shot over the close fielders with no one out for 4 runs.
This is what we photographers have to put up with, but I can forgive Andy Caddick on the day of the announcement of his retirement.
D Pattinson bld Willoughby.
Why Arul Suppiah only bowled seven overs today only the captain knows.
S Newman trapped lbw by Suppiah
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 12:41
Great to see Arul doing well,yet again.
He's developing into a mighty fine player.
Well done,lad.
He's developing into a mighty fine player.
Well done,lad.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 12:58
To add to that and as I haven't mentioned it yet,the catch Arul took to get rid of Voges on Saturday evening was one of the finest catches I think I have ever seen.
Everybody was waiting for the thump of the ball into the boundary boards but to see Arul coming up smiling at backward point after doing his finest impression of Tom Daley was breathtaking.
That ball had four written all over it(I do wish the umpires would check the ball for players writing on it),the chances of catching it would have been in the remote to impossible region.
As the announcer said "Adam Voges-brilliantly caught by Arul Suppiah off the bowilng of Andrew Caddick for 10."
Sums it up nicely.
Everybody was waiting for the thump of the ball into the boundary boards but to see Arul coming up smiling at backward point after doing his finest impression of Tom Daley was breathtaking.
That ball had four written all over it(I do wish the umpires would check the ball for players writing on it),the chances of catching it would have been in the remote to impossible region.
As the announcer said "Adam Voges-brilliantly caught by Arul Suppiah off the bowilng of Andrew Caddick for 10."
Sums it up nicely.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 12:59
This match is a classic example of how Taunton works against our Championship ambitions.
It is simple not an option to declare and try and bowl out a side in two sessions as opponents have found to their cost this season.
For us to win enough games we must find a solution to the "Taunton problem".
Pitches no longer deteriorate, it seems, so why not reuse them to give spinners a chance within reasonable perameters.
The ICC has already vowed that test pitches which are tilted too much to the batsmen two years in succession will be banned.
Surely it's not too long before there's a similar role in the CC>
It is simple not an option to declare and try and bowl out a side in two sessions as opponents have found to their cost this season.
For us to win enough games we must find a solution to the "Taunton problem".
Pitches no longer deteriorate, it seems, so why not reuse them to give spinners a chance within reasonable perameters.
The ICC has already vowed that test pitches which are tilted too much to the batsmen two years in succession will be banned.
Surely it's not too long before there's a similar role in the CC>
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:01
He took a blinder like that at Hove.He must be the best fielders around at the moment.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:03
Yes.... but.... the Times today talked of the Durham pitch being as flat as a pancake but superb swing bowling doing the damage.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:05
How do you know if pitches are reused K.T?
Spend a lot of time at Taunton do you or do you
collaborate with Frostie?
Spend a lot of time at Taunton do you or do you
collaborate with Frostie?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:09
Mr Frost does a remarkable job,his expertise and dedication is a joy to behold.
KT hangs onto every word written in that wonderful tome of everything pure,The Guardian.
If they say it,it must be right.
KT hangs onto every word written in that wonderful tome of everything pure,The Guardian.
If they say it,it must be right.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:14
I thought it was if LoL says it,it must be right!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:16
So at lunch we lead by 199 with, what, 70 overs left?
100 off the next 10 to 15 overs and leave them 300 of 55-60?
Done deal with Caddy on his valedictory tour, surely?!?!
100 off the next 10 to 15 overs and leave them 300 of 55-60?
Done deal with Caddy on his valedictory tour, surely?!?!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:28
We might leave them 370 off 45 or something like that. Won't be enough overs, obviously, but can't believe Langer will take a chance on a 'gettable,' target.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 13:37
Raining here in the wild west.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 14:51
So Banger goes. Trigger at 3?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 14:57
Batting practice for Wes, I assume?
Would be a bit harsh to send Wes out at three with the long handle instruction after his first innings duck?
Would be a bit harsh to send Wes out at three with the long handle instruction after his first innings duck?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: North of the Border (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:19
No point giving Notts even the slightest possibility of a win...
We're in a battle for second place..
We're in a battle for second place..
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: North of the Border (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:20
PS
even though I would firmly put myself in the 'optimistic' supporter camp, I definitely feel that there will be no need to move the championship trophy at the end of the season for any more than a bit of buffing...
even though I would firmly put myself in the 'optimistic' supporter camp, I definitely feel that there will be no need to move the championship trophy at the end of the season for any more than a bit of buffing...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:20
But it is promising that they have sent him out because it means they might well be giving him a chance to show what he can do.
KT.....you're early!!!!
Don't know whether you've noticed the fact (once again) that we've lost almost a day of this game
Add to that the fact that Notts have only 2 bowling partnerships (Sidebottom and Adams plus Patel and Ealham) and a couple of bit players (Franks and Pattinson) and you have the game really.
We bowled them out (did you notice that?) and would have done it again had we not lost the sessions we have.
But of course it's the pitch. The weather has had absolutely nothing to do with our Championship ambitions.
Ohhhh had a word with Frosty about the chance of a little chat with him when you get down here (if you ever do) and he sort of said it probably wasn't something he'd consider as his first option.
Anyway, thanks for pointing out the demerits of the Taunton pitch for those who may have missed this argument in the past. Can I suggest that you start to look at the demerits of the opposition and the conditions as well in future.... or you could simply cut and paste the same post in everytime.
KT.....you're early!!!!
Don't know whether you've noticed the fact (once again) that we've lost almost a day of this game
Add to that the fact that Notts have only 2 bowling partnerships (Sidebottom and Adams plus Patel and Ealham) and a couple of bit players (Franks and Pattinson) and you have the game really.
We bowled them out (did you notice that?) and would have done it again had we not lost the sessions we have.
But of course it's the pitch. The weather has had absolutely nothing to do with our Championship ambitions.
Ohhhh had a word with Frosty about the chance of a little chat with him when you get down here (if you ever do) and he sort of said it probably wasn't something he'd consider as his first option.
Anyway, thanks for pointing out the demerits of the Taunton pitch for those who may have missed this argument in the past. Can I suggest that you start to look at the demerits of the opposition and the conditions as well in future.... or you could simply cut and paste the same post in everytime.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:48
We are NOT in a battle for second place.
We are less than two wins behind with 6 games left.
Yes we may need another team, or the weather, to do us a favour; but giving it up now is ridiculous.
We are less than two wins behind with 6 games left.
Yes we may need another team, or the weather, to do us a favour; but giving it up now is ridiculous.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:49
I'm a bit surprised that all the new building works on the ground do not seem to have produced more swing. At other places, it seems that when new stands have gone up the ball has then done more in the air. Not sure that our building has had any notable effect whatseover? Indeed, it could be argued that it used to swing more before - or at least it seemed that way when people like G D Rose were bowling here?
For all the fact that KT's criticisms of Mr Frost are spurious, I'm sure that Mr Rose's little grey cells must be working over-time trying to figure out a way to take 20 wickets at home on a more regular basis. Of course, the weather has taken time out. But we seem to be in a weather cycle where that has been and is going to be a regular event.
At most grounds the ball seems to do all sorts when inclement weather is about but it seems that even the weather has less impact (other than when it's actually rained off) on events here than at many other grounds.
For all the fact that KT's criticisms of Mr Frost are spurious, I'm sure that Mr Rose's little grey cells must be working over-time trying to figure out a way to take 20 wickets at home on a more regular basis. Of course, the weather has taken time out. But we seem to be in a weather cycle where that has been and is going to be a regular event.
At most grounds the ball seems to do all sorts when inclement weather is about but it seems that even the weather has less impact (other than when it's actually rained off) on events here than at many other grounds.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 15:54
I would like to see a declaration that would leave 20-25 or so on the board, purely because I would like Max and Arul to get some extra bowling in ahead of T20 finals day as Edgbaston is a turning track.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 16:16
Anybody got commentary?
All I get is error message
All I get is error message
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 17:01
That's all folks!
12 points to Notts' 10 (and Durham's 20).
Hmmmmm.
12 points to Notts' 10 (and Durham's 20).
Hmmmmm.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 17:12
The difference becomes 10 rather than 8 (betwixt us and Notts.)
Their late rally was a bit of a {swear word} really as I was hoping the gap would stretch to 12 points.
Their late rally was a bit of a {swear word} really as I was hoping the gap would stretch to 12 points.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 17:32
Quote:Frome Exile
We are NOT in a battle for second place.
We are less than two wins behind with 6 games left.
Yes we may need another team, or the weather, to do us a favour; but giving it up now is ridiculous.
Frome Exile, your laudable and positive attitude is to be applauded.
On the other hand, Brian Rose said in his 'Sunday Independent' newspaper column yesterday: -
"In the championship I think that we would be happy to take second place, where we are at the moment, because it is tough cricket in the first division and we have seen the same three or four sides, who were up there competing at the end of last season, near the top again."
Rose's comments were made of course prior to the half - way stage of the current round of county championship matches, so it appears to me that he has, to all intents and purposes, agreed that Durham have more than one hand on the championship pennant.
Sadly, I have to agree with him.
To finish as runners up would be very creditable and bearing in mind Somerset's one - day record this year, would signal a good season.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 17:57
Sorry Clarence, I simply don't see that inference there at all.
I don't equate saying "we would have to be happy with a creditable second place finish" witth saying "we've given up on the possibility of first place".
Obviously Durham are favourites, but there are six rounds left, and with this "summer" being as it is, there's every chance for the weather to play a part for us, as it has already played a part against us more than once.
I don't equate saying "we would have to be happy with a creditable second place finish" witth saying "we've given up on the possibility of first place".
Obviously Durham are favourites, but there are six rounds left, and with this "summer" being as it is, there's every chance for the weather to play a part for us, as it has already played a part against us more than once.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 17:59
KT, no disrespect, but do you seriously forget that you've already posted something once, and just keep typing it out again every week or so without realising?
If I'm right, I'm sure somebody can help you with that. I'm happy to debate pretty much anything with anybody, but, honestly, we've done this.
If I'm right, I'm sure somebody can help you with that. I'm happy to debate pretty much anything with anybody, but, honestly, we've done this.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 18:15
I can't believe it to be honest.
We've bossed this game from the start and would have won if it hadn't rained.
And what do we get?
More criticism of the Taunton track.
It beggars belief,it really does.
We've bossed this game from the start and would have won if it hadn't rained.
And what do we get?
More criticism of the Taunton track.
It beggars belief,it really does.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Ronnie sabre (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 18:20
Dont give up guys keep the faith. THeres time yet. If we can beat Warks this week it will put pressure on Durham for their game at Lancs the following week (not an easy game for them), and theyve still got us and Notts to play.......Im hoping like mad here.
Anyway Im down from Scotland for the Sussex week and victory there would be sweet to keep us going.
Anyway Im down from Scotland for the Sussex week and victory there would be sweet to keep us going.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 18:31
Well said Ronnie!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 19:33
County championship second place prize money 2008 - £40,000.
County championship second place prize money 2009 - £225,000 (£175,000 to players, £50,000 to the club).
I think they call it inflation.
County championship second place prize money 2009 - £225,000 (£175,000 to players, £50,000 to the club).
I think they call it inflation.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 20:09
Inflation?
Sounds more like a bankers bonus.
Those damned bankers.
Sounds more like a bankers bonus.
Those damned bankers.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 21:14
Day 4 photos.
With the weather drizzling much of the time I didn’t take many today.
What was remarkable today was Arul’s batting he was more fluent that Marcus and out scored him most of the time.
4 runs scored by Arul Suppiah
This shot got Arul his 50 runs
This was one of Marcus’s scoring shots.
Out of 99 runs Marcus only hit nine fours which is unusual for him, he wasn’t helped by the slow damp out-field and Matt Wood’s good fielding along the boundary edge.
With the weather drizzling much of the time I didn’t take many today.
What was remarkable today was Arul’s batting he was more fluent that Marcus and out scored him most of the time.
4 runs scored by Arul Suppiah
This shot got Arul his 50 runs
This was one of Marcus’s scoring shots.
Out of 99 runs Marcus only hit nine fours which is unusual for him, he wasn’t helped by the slow damp out-field and Matt Wood’s good fielding along the boundary edge.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 07:55
Let's be realistic chaps( and chapesses). It doesn't stop us being hopeful but it is out of our hands. We can take maximum points from all the remaining games (including Durham) but still be dependent on slip ups elsewhere. That doesn't mean we give up but even doing all we can may not be enough.
Anyway, off to Edgbaston for the first 3 days -the fact that I can't do Saturday guarantees a sunny day an a tight finish- and then to Taunton next Sunday, where my grandsons get their first look at the temple that is the County Ground.
Anyway, off to Edgbaston for the first 3 days -the fact that I can't do Saturday guarantees a sunny day an a tight finish- and then to Taunton next Sunday, where my grandsons get their first look at the temple that is the County Ground.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 09:21
Fear not,we will win the County Championship.
This year.
I don't understand the doubt.
This year.
I don't understand the doubt.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 09:39
"I can't believe it to be honest.
We've bossed this game from the start and would have won if it hadn't rained.
And what do we get?
More criticism of the Taunton track.
It beggars belief,it really does."
To be honest, Jim, the 'we would have won if it had not rained,' is something of a leap. Others have said it too. But the truth is that the last time that we were hugely penetrative with the ball was on the final session in Day Two. After that, it was more of a struggle for us and a hopeless one (apparently) for Notts with the ball.
Meantime, the scale of the challenge that someone like Hildreth probably faces to get in the England team is probably summed up by Ivo Tenant's comments on this game.
He says the draw was 'totally predictable,' repeats Langer's comments about it being 'all but impossible to bowl people out on the final day,' and says of Arul's innings 'he played nicely enough in making 151.' In other words, Arul is given little credit for his 151 because the pitch is deemed to be so irredeemably flat.
As for the title, Durham are now huge favourites. Edgbaston is flatter than Taunton so I see very little chance of a result there this week, despite a favourable forecast. Of course, paradoxically, a favourable (sunny) forecast may make a result even less likely as it may make Edgbaston even more of a road than usual.
Because Edgbaston turns, I will be looking forward to see what Max Waller can do, though.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:10:09:19 by AGod.
We've bossed this game from the start and would have won if it hadn't rained.
And what do we get?
More criticism of the Taunton track.
It beggars belief,it really does."
To be honest, Jim, the 'we would have won if it had not rained,' is something of a leap. Others have said it too. But the truth is that the last time that we were hugely penetrative with the ball was on the final session in Day Two. After that, it was more of a struggle for us and a hopeless one (apparently) for Notts with the ball.
Meantime, the scale of the challenge that someone like Hildreth probably faces to get in the England team is probably summed up by Ivo Tenant's comments on this game.
He says the draw was 'totally predictable,' repeats Langer's comments about it being 'all but impossible to bowl people out on the final day,' and says of Arul's innings 'he played nicely enough in making 151.' In other words, Arul is given little credit for his 151 because the pitch is deemed to be so irredeemably flat.
As for the title, Durham are now huge favourites. Edgbaston is flatter than Taunton so I see very little chance of a result there this week, despite a favourable forecast. Of course, paradoxically, a favourable (sunny) forecast may make a result even less likely as it may make Edgbaston even more of a road than usual.
Because Edgbaston turns, I will be looking forward to see what Max Waller can do, though.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:10:09:19 by AGod.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 09:55
Incidentally, as per the Times, Mr Frost will be digging up one of his pitches and re-laying it this winter. I think that's a more dramatic step than the top-soil shaving we did before.
If all goes well, maybe we'll have one faster pitch to play on in future, which we could use against opponents with low calibre pace bowlers.
If all goes well, maybe we'll have one faster pitch to play on in future, which we could use against opponents with low calibre pace bowlers.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 10:44
With 350 plus in the bank and 60 to 70 overs to have a go at them I'd have put a little more faith in our bowling than you do AG. That could have been the situation had we not lost the time to weather.
I'm not saying we have a great attack but I have to say I am stunned that Notts are where they are given the unit they put on the field in this game. Langer did not use Suppiah and Waller enough in the first run through - they looked way more of a handful than Mr Patel who was really disappointing on the field either with the ball or without it.
Charl and Alfonso were also giving them some problems and Peter was once again under-used.
You'd still need to get past the Browns, Reads, Ealhams and Newmans of this world (along with Matt of course) but it would certainly NOT have been a foregone conclusion that this would have been the usually predicted 'bore draw' that the weather made it.
I'm not saying we have a great attack but I have to say I am stunned that Notts are where they are given the unit they put on the field in this game. Langer did not use Suppiah and Waller enough in the first run through - they looked way more of a handful than Mr Patel who was really disappointing on the field either with the ball or without it.
Charl and Alfonso were also giving them some problems and Peter was once again under-used.
You'd still need to get past the Browns, Reads, Ealhams and Newmans of this world (along with Matt of course) but it would certainly NOT have been a foregone conclusion that this would have been the usually predicted 'bore draw' that the weather made it.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:01
No, it wouldn't have been a foregone conclusion but it's also certainly not the case that 'We WOULD have won,' which is what some are saying. Our record of home CC wins is nowhere near prolific enough over the past 1.5 seasons of life in Division One for us to be able to back that assertion up. And I know loads of those games were disrupted by rain, but - in a way - that's the whole point - there is not much "form," for us to judge what would be likely to happen at Taunton in an uninterrupted four-day game at this level?
We might have won and we might have drawn. I consider it highly improbable that we would have lost but teams have, no doubt, lost at Taunton before after making 400 in their first dig (though we may not have declared there in a full four day game, of course.)
We might have won and we might have drawn. I consider it highly improbable that we would have lost but teams have, no doubt, lost at Taunton before after making 400 in their first dig (though we may not have declared there in a full four day game, of course.)
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:07
AG for your information pitches are relayed every so often, there was one relayed towards the end of last season.
I believe it cannot be used until the second year.
a few years ago I put pictures on here of three being relayed at the end of a season.
Compared to the Durham's match in the first three days Somerset had 65 overs less than Durham and overall we lost 79 overs due to the weather in those three days.
I believe it cannot be used until the second year.
a few years ago I put pictures on here of three being relayed at the end of a season.
Compared to the Durham's match in the first three days Somerset had 65 overs less than Durham and overall we lost 79 overs due to the weather in those three days.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:11
Thanks, Mike, I did wonder whether (or not) they could be used immediately.
If one was relaid towards the end of last season, then that -by my brilliant maths - would mean it will be on stream for next season..
.. so it will be interesting to see whether that pitch has more pace and carry than the ones that have not been recently re-laid.
If one was relaid towards the end of last season, then that -by my brilliant maths - would mean it will be on stream for next season..
.. so it will be interesting to see whether that pitch has more pace and carry than the ones that have not been recently re-laid.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:11
For what it's worth I've totted up the overs lost to weather of days 1 to 3 of our 5 home games versus Durham's 5 home games.
We've lost 244 overs. Durham have lost 111.
Not much Frosty can do about that!
Couple our weather issues with the flatness of our pitch and we might start to see a more rounded discussion of what might be inhibiting our Championship chances.
We've lost 244 overs. Durham have lost 111.
Not much Frosty can do about that!
Couple our weather issues with the flatness of our pitch and we might start to see a more rounded discussion of what might be inhibiting our Championship chances.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:21
"Incidentally, as per the Times, Mr Frost will be digging up one of his pitches and re-laying it this winter. I think that's a more dramatic step than the top-soil shaving we did before."
Too little, too late I feel. The whole square needs attention IMHO, but perhaps the club are going to try to re-lay one pitch to see what effect it will have.
However, I wouldn't have thought that this re-laid strip would be ready to play on next season - 2010, but I willingly accept that I may be wrong.
If the work eventually provides a 'good cricket pitch', then perhaps more re-laying will take place, but by the time that this may have been done, will Somerset be docked points (as may be mooted for the County Championship) for still producing pitches that heavily favour the batting side?
Anyway, well said AGod.
Your posting of 08:39 and subsequent ones are spot on.
Too little, too late I feel. The whole square needs attention IMHO, but perhaps the club are going to try to re-lay one pitch to see what effect it will have.
However, I wouldn't have thought that this re-laid strip would be ready to play on next season - 2010, but I willingly accept that I may be wrong.
If the work eventually provides a 'good cricket pitch', then perhaps more re-laying will take place, but by the time that this may have been done, will Somerset be docked points (as may be mooted for the County Championship) for still producing pitches that heavily favour the batting side?
Anyway, well said AGod.
Your posting of 08:39 and subsequent ones are spot on.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:21
Yep, FE, I completely agree and would throw in a lack of (accurate) high pace through the air and/or an experienced and penetrative spinner as parts three and four of this equation.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 11:54
'too little too late' he! he!
I do believe we skimmed the pitch two season ago. If you read some other parts of the thread you'll see that it seems this has been done before recently.
But if you like. Dig it up. Move the ground. Lets bring another one in from somewhere else. Sack the groundstaff. Make them fiddle it so we can win.
Cricket is played on the surface you have. Good cricketers play good cricket on the surface they face. I've watched most games at the ground in the past 15 years. I've seen many many results for both sides. I've seen big scores and I've seen scores of less than 150. I've watched double figure wickets fall in a day and I've seen no wickets fall in a day. I've seen good sides play like dorks and poor sides play like heroes.
I don't remember inspectors ever saying the pitch provided was detrimental to the game but I have seen some very very good cricketers make the most of what is provided under their feet. I've seen captains assess the nature of the surface and use their team to get what they needed from it.
I've seen certain results taken away by appalling weather and I've seen certain defeat saved by the same.
I've seen Frosty and his men pull off miracles of play by managing to provide any kind of playable surface and I've watched them work through the winter to ensure that the playing conditions are as good as they can be every summer I've watched.
I've also seen pictures of him on more than one occasion being awarded by his peeers for being the best at his job in the country.
Yet on here I read regular comments from some who visit the place once in a blue moon criticising his ability to know what is the best that can be done with the Taunton pitch on a regular basis and criticising his knowledge of a pitch he eats sleeps and breathes.
Sorry people but statistics off Cricinfo give you a very very limited ability to assess the nature of a game and if you are only going to ever provide one side of this continual argument (and that only ever when it suits your view) then you'll simply be a humorous distraction.
The pitch needs some re-vitalisation. The groundstaff are planning to do that (as part of a regular programme of it).
The squad needs strengthening in the bowling department. The management should be getting a feel for the deisre for that to happen if they read these things or listen to their spectating public.
The weather needs to give us FOUR days of constant cricket to produce winning results ON ANY PITCH.
Tactics on the field need to be a little less 'myopic' (I think that was the word used by Mr R)
Our batsmen need to maintain the levels they are presently achieving.
Those FOUR/FIVE components need to come together to provide us with the tools to achieve our ambition.
Concentration on one or overreaction to one issue in many will cause us to take our mind off the others and we'll still get nowhere.
So when in future you read your computer screen statistics during a match. It might also be worth looking out of your window and maybe even reading or listening to the words of those who were at THAT game before you commit finger to keyboard and damn the whole event because of 22 yards of ground in the county town of Somerset.
It won't of course happen because this has been going on now for more than one season and it hasn't been a significant aspect of this view in the past but it's a counter view and I've got a bit of time on my hands......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:18:58:08 by Grockle.
I do believe we skimmed the pitch two season ago. If you read some other parts of the thread you'll see that it seems this has been done before recently.
But if you like. Dig it up. Move the ground. Lets bring another one in from somewhere else. Sack the groundstaff. Make them fiddle it so we can win.
Cricket is played on the surface you have. Good cricketers play good cricket on the surface they face. I've watched most games at the ground in the past 15 years. I've seen many many results for both sides. I've seen big scores and I've seen scores of less than 150. I've watched double figure wickets fall in a day and I've seen no wickets fall in a day. I've seen good sides play like dorks and poor sides play like heroes.
I don't remember inspectors ever saying the pitch provided was detrimental to the game but I have seen some very very good cricketers make the most of what is provided under their feet. I've seen captains assess the nature of the surface and use their team to get what they needed from it.
I've seen certain results taken away by appalling weather and I've seen certain defeat saved by the same.
I've seen Frosty and his men pull off miracles of play by managing to provide any kind of playable surface and I've watched them work through the winter to ensure that the playing conditions are as good as they can be every summer I've watched.
I've also seen pictures of him on more than one occasion being awarded by his peeers for being the best at his job in the country.
Yet on here I read regular comments from some who visit the place once in a blue moon criticising his ability to know what is the best that can be done with the Taunton pitch on a regular basis and criticising his knowledge of a pitch he eats sleeps and breathes.
Sorry people but statistics off Cricinfo give you a very very limited ability to assess the nature of a game and if you are only going to ever provide one side of this continual argument (and that only ever when it suits your view) then you'll simply be a humorous distraction.
The pitch needs some re-vitalisation. The groundstaff are planning to do that (as part of a regular programme of it).
The squad needs strengthening in the bowling department. The management should be getting a feel for the deisre for that to happen if they read these things or listen to their spectating public.
The weather needs to give us FOUR days of constant cricket to produce winning results ON ANY PITCH.
Tactics on the field need to be a little less 'myopic' (I think that was the word used by Mr R)
Our batsmen need to maintain the levels they are presently achieving.
Those FOUR/FIVE components need to come together to provide us with the tools to achieve our ambition.
Concentration on one or overreaction to one issue in many will cause us to take our mind off the others and we'll still get nowhere.
So when in future you read your computer screen statistics during a match. It might also be worth looking out of your window and maybe even reading or listening to the words of those who were at THAT game before you commit finger to keyboard and damn the whole event because of 22 yards of ground in the county town of Somerset.
It won't of course happen because this has been going on now for more than one season and it hasn't been a significant aspect of this view in the past but it's a counter view and I've got a bit of time on my hands......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:18:58:08 by Grockle.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:00
Is Mr R Mr Rose?
Did he really say that our tactics were 'myopic,'?????
Did he really say that our tactics were 'myopic,'?????
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:05
"I've also seen pictures of him one more than one occasion being awarded by his peeers for being the best at his job in the country."
These tables appear in Wisden every year.
It would do KT some good, I fancy, to look at the small print at the bottom. It says (and I paraphrase);
"The scores given to these pitches do not reflect on the ability of the groundsman because the nature of pitches varies considerably due to a number of factors including climatic ones and soil types."
Our scores in these tables have been falling, somewhat, from the point in time when Mr Frost was annually alternating with Mr Brind of Surrey in the winners chair. And that, I imagine, is part of the reason why he wants to re-vitalise the square (and is doing his absolute best to do so) to return our pitches to the state when they were rated the best in the land (when some of them were fast enough for Duncan Fletcher to describe one of our pitches as 'lightning fast.')
These tables appear in Wisden every year.
It would do KT some good, I fancy, to look at the small print at the bottom. It says (and I paraphrase);
"The scores given to these pitches do not reflect on the ability of the groundsman because the nature of pitches varies considerably due to a number of factors including climatic ones and soil types."
Our scores in these tables have been falling, somewhat, from the point in time when Mr Frost was annually alternating with Mr Brind of Surrey in the winners chair. And that, I imagine, is part of the reason why he wants to re-vitalise the square (and is doing his absolute best to do so) to return our pitches to the state when they were rated the best in the land (when some of them were fast enough for Duncan Fletcher to describe one of our pitches as 'lightning fast.')
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:05
You do surprise me, Grockle.
I'm shocked - I really am.
I'm shocked - I really am.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:08
Sorry Ag,but I think you're wrong.
We bossed that game,you only had to look at the Nottinghamshire players to realise they had precious little fight in them.
This was an excellent,result wicket.
We were on top.
Once we'd have got in amongst them they'd have folded,I've been watching the game long enough to recognise a beaten team when I see them.
What is sad and quite unfair is the constant moaning about the wicket.
This was a good wicket that would have produced a result,the fact that a few journalists have an agenda bothers or interests me not one jot.
Taunton is a beautiful place to watch and play cricket.
We should cherish it.
For some though,that would be far too difficult.
We bossed that game,you only had to look at the Nottinghamshire players to realise they had precious little fight in them.
This was an excellent,result wicket.
We were on top.
Once we'd have got in amongst them they'd have folded,I've been watching the game long enough to recognise a beaten team when I see them.
What is sad and quite unfair is the constant moaning about the wicket.
This was a good wicket that would have produced a result,the fact that a few journalists have an agenda bothers or interests me not one jot.
Taunton is a beautiful place to watch and play cricket.
We should cherish it.
For some though,that would be far too difficult.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:11
Well, I wasn't there, Jim. If you say they looked demoralised and as though they were going to sink, then so be it. Certainly the 2nd innings score that we ran up with the bat did not suggest a side fighting tooth and claw in the field.
I think you are a fan of Chris Read, though and I would assume that he showed a good amount of resolve with the bat for his near-ton?
I think you are a fan of Chris Read, though and I would assume that he showed a good amount of resolve with the bat for his near-ton?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:16
He's a class player,though not as good as young Mr Foster.
Or our Craig.
Believe me,Notts looked quite a sad bunch,as downtrodden as I've seen a first class team in many a year.
Good luck up there Neil.
You'll need it.
They looked like the mogodon eleven to me.
Or our Craig.
Believe me,Notts looked quite a sad bunch,as downtrodden as I've seen a first class team in many a year.
Good luck up there Neil.
You'll need it.
They looked like the mogodon eleven to me.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:18
Perhaps they had some kind of issue in their dressing-room, then?
Certainly, they've lost only one game (Durham) all season and so don't have form for just quitting. Not recent form, anyway.
Certainly, they've lost only one game (Durham) all season and so don't have form for just quitting. Not recent form, anyway.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:34
I was there on Friday, and Notts. looked pretty well 'up - for - it' to me.
Perhaps something happened subsequently in the dressing room.
It was a rain - affected game which duly petered out into a predictable and tedious draw.
Was never going to be anything other than that, was it?
Perhaps something happened subsequently in the dressing room.
It was a rain - affected game which duly petered out into a predictable and tedious draw.
Was never going to be anything other than that, was it?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 13:40
Always looked likely to be rain-affected.
Perhaps surprisingly, though, two of the results that have been obtained at Taunton since we gained promotion have come comfortably 'inside the distance.' We beat Kent inside the distance last year and got mashed by Lancs, also well inside the distance.
Perhaps surprisingly, though, two of the results that have been obtained at Taunton since we gained promotion have come comfortably 'inside the distance.' We beat Kent inside the distance last year and got mashed by Lancs, also well inside the distance.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 14:34
Nope it wasn't going to be anything else but it didn't stop the usual posts about the pitch arriving when it was obviously a draw after about 2:30 on Day 4.
They don't tend to be posted if there is any chance of a win and they are extremly absent if we actually do defeat a side.
Have to agree with you FE. I mentioned on air that Notts body language was very poor and the only people who actually looked like they were the least bit interested in the game were Matt Wood and Andre Adams who both pulled off excellent fielding to stave off boundaries.
There were comments on more than one day about statements made by Notts committee members about the poor performances of their frontline bowlers and batsmen. I suppose if you are hearing that in your committee rooms it tends to spread itself to the dressing rooms.
Sidebottom looked extremely unhappy about the quality of the fielding during his bowling to us at the end of Day 33 and was almost in an argument with his captain when replaced by Pattinson towards the end of the day
We looked in control of this game most of the time and a much more professional outfit in the field all the time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:18:56:30 by Grockle.
They don't tend to be posted if there is any chance of a win and they are extremly absent if we actually do defeat a side.
Have to agree with you FE. I mentioned on air that Notts body language was very poor and the only people who actually looked like they were the least bit interested in the game were Matt Wood and Andre Adams who both pulled off excellent fielding to stave off boundaries.
There were comments on more than one day about statements made by Notts committee members about the poor performances of their frontline bowlers and batsmen. I suppose if you are hearing that in your committee rooms it tends to spread itself to the dressing rooms.
Sidebottom looked extremely unhappy about the quality of the fielding during his bowling to us at the end of Day 33 and was almost in an argument with his captain when replaced by Pattinson towards the end of the day
We looked in control of this game most of the time and a much more professional outfit in the field all the time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:04:18:56:30 by Grockle.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 14:53
"There were comments on more than one day about statements made by Notts committee members about the poor performances of their frontline bowlers and batsmen. I suppose if you are hearing that in your committee rooms it tends to spread itself to the dressing rooms. "
Interesting, especially given Notts good position in the table. I can barely imagine what Langer would say if our committee was whingeing about the batting and the bowling (two rather major parts of the game!) with our position in the table.
Interesting, especially given Notts good position in the table. I can barely imagine what Langer would say if our committee was whingeing about the batting and the bowling (two rather major parts of the game!) with our position in the table.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 14:57
Long match Grockle, and to still end in a draw (Joke).
Yes even on the Friday we mentioned how their heads were down, they did pick-up when Sidebottom had that purple patch when he took the wickets of Suppiah,Lander and Durston in quick succession.
Yes even on the Friday we mentioned how their heads were down, they did pick-up when Sidebottom had that purple patch when he took the wickets of Suppiah,Lander and Durston in quick succession.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 15:08
T'was that Mike and as we were commentating the end came as a blessed relief.
Ryan did give them a bit of a lift but it's a shame that Read's innings didn't do the same.
Ryan did give them a bit of a lift but it's a shame that Read's innings didn't do the same.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 18:05
"I can barely imagine what Langer would say if our committee was whingeing about the batting and the bowling (two rather major parts of the game!) with our position in the table."
I can well imagine what it would be AGod.
I can well imagine what it would be AGod.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 18:17
Thankfully the days of moaning and groaning committee member seems to have gone.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 21:05
Yep what JL says goes, end of story.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 21:48
The issue of the Taunton wicket isn't going to go away, because it is.. a major issue.
Justin Langer is wrong. Vic Marks is wrong.( no experience there then), The Times is wrong...
Before I say anything else I should state I don't believe this is an isolated problem at Taunton. The current Test series with huge scores at Cardiff and Australia's comfortable final innings at Edgbaston illustrate the increasing extent the bat is gaining supremacy over the ball.
Nor is entirely an issue of the wicket. More powerful bats and shorter boundaries are factors as well.
I also accept the inadequacies of our bowling attack are a factor and an attack like Durham would perform better (although whether they would do as well overall is another matter entirely).
But is is seemingly obvious to everyone; the Captain, all independent observers, all but some fans, that the Taunton ground is working against the success of our team.
The days in which a "good" wicket was one which favoured batsmen are over. If we can't bowl sides out we can't win the CC. Simple as that. And although a better bowling line up is crucial we are entitled to expect some assistance from our own groundsman.
And while we're I here, I question the idea "Mr Frost" is somehow above criticism. Everyone else at the club from the Director of Cricket and the Captain down is held accountable for their performances and earn their next contract.
How is it different for the groundsman? Phil Frost must produce balanced pitches, for Somerset and indeed for the game of cricket. That's his job. We're as entitled to our opinion on that as we are on anything else.
A final irony: Sidebootom may be picked for the Headingley test, because the selectors as so staggered by his five wicket achievement at Taunton they think he's in the form of his life!
Justin Langer is wrong. Vic Marks is wrong.( no experience there then), The Times is wrong...
Before I say anything else I should state I don't believe this is an isolated problem at Taunton. The current Test series with huge scores at Cardiff and Australia's comfortable final innings at Edgbaston illustrate the increasing extent the bat is gaining supremacy over the ball.
Nor is entirely an issue of the wicket. More powerful bats and shorter boundaries are factors as well.
I also accept the inadequacies of our bowling attack are a factor and an attack like Durham would perform better (although whether they would do as well overall is another matter entirely).
But is is seemingly obvious to everyone; the Captain, all independent observers, all but some fans, that the Taunton ground is working against the success of our team.
The days in which a "good" wicket was one which favoured batsmen are over. If we can't bowl sides out we can't win the CC. Simple as that. And although a better bowling line up is crucial we are entitled to expect some assistance from our own groundsman.
And while we're I here, I question the idea "Mr Frost" is somehow above criticism. Everyone else at the club from the Director of Cricket and the Captain down is held accountable for their performances and earn their next contract.
How is it different for the groundsman? Phil Frost must produce balanced pitches, for Somerset and indeed for the game of cricket. That's his job. We're as entitled to our opinion on that as we are on anything else.
A final irony: Sidebootom may be picked for the Headingley test, because the selectors as so staggered by his five wicket achievement at Taunton they think he's in the form of his life!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 21:57
i'll let somebody else reply to the above, it's BORING repeating the same slating of our pitch week after week
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 22:20
You're absolutely right, KT.
This modern trend with games like this one, which clearly favour bat over ball has to be stopped!
This modern trend with games like this one, which clearly favour bat over ball has to be stopped!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 22:40
Is Mr Frost allowed to reply to the criticism?
No? That must be very frustrating for him, I would imagine.
No? That must be very frustrating for him, I would imagine.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 22:43
That test card looked great, KT would enjoy watching that, i know i would
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 22:57
You are entitled to your opinion on the pitch,same as everybody else.
The problem is,and what really gets under the skin is the way you keep on repeating the same thing,at every opportunity.
We're aware of what Vic Marks has to say as we're aware of what a journalist at the Times has to say.
You'll also be aware of the fact that others don't seem to think it's the problem you do.
Neither is fact,they are just opinions
A difference of opinion is healthy,it brings about stimulating debate.
What doesn't bring about stimulating debate is somebody repeating the same point of view time and time again,somebody who refuses to accept that others might see things differently.
Get yourself doown to Taunton and meet some of the people who watch every ball bowled at the place.
Listen to what they have to say.
Maybe then you'll get a balanced view,and your keyboard might get some much needed relief from typing the same thing every time you log in.
The problem is,and what really gets under the skin is the way you keep on repeating the same thing,at every opportunity.
We're aware of what Vic Marks has to say as we're aware of what a journalist at the Times has to say.
You'll also be aware of the fact that others don't seem to think it's the problem you do.
Neither is fact,they are just opinions
A difference of opinion is healthy,it brings about stimulating debate.
What doesn't bring about stimulating debate is somebody repeating the same point of view time and time again,somebody who refuses to accept that others might see things differently.
Get yourself doown to Taunton and meet some of the people who watch every ball bowled at the place.
Listen to what they have to say.
Maybe then you'll get a balanced view,and your keyboard might get some much needed relief from typing the same thing every time you log in.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 23:04
I fear the same keys on the keyboard are getting worn out from repeated use.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 23:04
Good point well made Big Jim
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 23:25
I wouldn't rely on the Times for this game KT (there are reasons but unfortunately you won't get them from here).
Didn't see Vic at the game this week (think he was busy) and I've heard nothing from Justin (who I would suggest is not an independent or impartial spokesperson on this issue because if it isn't the pitch it must be something else).
Good variation in the fact that you have at least accepted that there is more than grass and soil to playing the game of cricket.
Most of the rest I'll refer you to the 'Taunton is killing cricket' thread. It's in between the posts that seem similar.
You'd do far far better with a 'cricket is too batter friendly' thread.
You get a defence of our groundsman here because he is the only expert voice you will not read in the papers or see on these pages.
He isn't above criticism...he's just not able to answer it himself.
He's an easy target for more than you but it doesn't strengthen your argument to keep trying to lay things at his feet or refer to people who are employees of the club but seem able to say what they like while he does not have that right.
There ya go. I think BJ has said everything else.
Didn't see Vic at the game this week (think he was busy) and I've heard nothing from Justin (who I would suggest is not an independent or impartial spokesperson on this issue because if it isn't the pitch it must be something else).
Good variation in the fact that you have at least accepted that there is more than grass and soil to playing the game of cricket.
Most of the rest I'll refer you to the 'Taunton is killing cricket' thread. It's in between the posts that seem similar.
You'd do far far better with a 'cricket is too batter friendly' thread.
You get a defence of our groundsman here because he is the only expert voice you will not read in the papers or see on these pages.
He isn't above criticism...he's just not able to answer it himself.
He's an easy target for more than you but it doesn't strengthen your argument to keep trying to lay things at his feet or refer to people who are employees of the club but seem able to say what they like while he does not have that right.
There ya go. I think BJ has said everything else.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 01:04
The issue of bats is very interesting.
On Saturday LoL and I were drooling away at exhibits in the cricket museum(I urge you all to join)and couldn't help but notice the beautiful bit of willow that Bill Alley used to score over 3,000 runs during the 1961 season.
The bat was a simply crafted affair with beautiful lines,a classical bat of that era.
What was quite incredible was the depth of the bat,it was so slim you'd gasp if you saw it.
We did a rough measurement and it was obvious that the edge on a modern bat is a good deal thicker than the whole depth of Alley's bit of timber.
A moderrn day batsman would have kittens if he had to use such a bit of equipment,it really would take skill to use it effectively.
And on uncovered pitches,no lid or any other armour.
Now,as Grockle says,focusing on things like this would be much more sensible and fair than picking on a highly skilled craftsman who has no means of reply.
You might even find people agreeing with you.
Apart from the omnipresent journalists that is.
On Saturday LoL and I were drooling away at exhibits in the cricket museum(I urge you all to join)and couldn't help but notice the beautiful bit of willow that Bill Alley used to score over 3,000 runs during the 1961 season.
The bat was a simply crafted affair with beautiful lines,a classical bat of that era.
What was quite incredible was the depth of the bat,it was so slim you'd gasp if you saw it.
We did a rough measurement and it was obvious that the edge on a modern bat is a good deal thicker than the whole depth of Alley's bit of timber.
A moderrn day batsman would have kittens if he had to use such a bit of equipment,it really would take skill to use it effectively.
And on uncovered pitches,no lid or any other armour.
Now,as Grockle says,focusing on things like this would be much more sensible and fair than picking on a highly skilled craftsman who has no means of reply.
You might even find people agreeing with you.
Apart from the omnipresent journalists that is.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 04:55
I hope you keep posting your opinions KT, although I may not agree with them (and I rarely get the opportunity to visit Taunton), I think this is a legitimate and continuing issue which has concerned the management of the Club.
That is the level at which it has to be addressed, not in any way as a personal criticism of Phil Frost.
Did someone suggest that Sidebottom might be unhappy at Notts? Can we arrange a retrospective swop with Neil? Ryan does not need any assistance from the wicket, as he clearly demonstrated this week!
That is the level at which it has to be addressed, not in any way as a personal criticism of Phil Frost.
Did someone suggest that Sidebottom might be unhappy at Notts? Can we arrange a retrospective swop with Neil? Ryan does not need any assistance from the wicket, as he clearly demonstrated this week!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 08:27
I think he does need a fair bit of help (and perhaps will need significantly more soon) from the anti-rheumatics/arthritics though Congar!
Top bowler; but perhaps not one for our future?
Top bowler; but perhaps not one for our future?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 09:33
"The days in which a "good" wicket was one which favoured batsmen are over."
A good wicket has always been one on which good batsman and good bowlers are likely to prosper and mediocre ones are not very likely to prosper.
A good wicket has always been one on which good batsman and good bowlers are likely to prosper and mediocre ones are not very likely to prosper.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 09:36
"And although a better bowling line up is crucial we are entitled to expect some assistance from our own groundsman. "
Oh, for God's sake.
Why don't you write a personal letter to Mr Frost outlining the steps which you think he should take to transform our pitches. There's no point telling us. We cannot change the pitches nor are any of us expert enough to tell Phil precisely what changes are needed either. Of course, when telling Phil what he needs to do, you should outline your qualifications as a sage on such matters...
Oh, for God's sake.
Why don't you write a personal letter to Mr Frost outlining the steps which you think he should take to transform our pitches. There's no point telling us. We cannot change the pitches nor are any of us expert enough to tell Phil precisely what changes are needed either. Of course, when telling Phil what he needs to do, you should outline your qualifications as a sage on such matters...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Blub (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 09:37
Its a long time since I last found myself around these parts, but clearly some things remain the same (joke!).
Anyway I feel compelled to agree (in part) with KT, that there does seem to be a wider issue of bat dominating the ball throughout the land. The latest game at The Oval is a good case in point, and surely games like this cannot improve the interest in the County game generally.
Matthew Hayden (whom I never liked as a player, but have rather warmed to as a commentator) was recently saying how playing at empty grounds (in CC and Sheffield Shield) is very difficult for the players. If the CC is to be protected, then is it necessary to attract more interest in it?
Last night I heard Matthew Hoggard on the radio, commentating that Headingley is no longer the seamer-friendly wicket that it used to be. I think that this is a shame. Are our wickets (particularly at the Test grounds) being nullified so that revenue can be maximised for the whole 5 days? 2 or 3 days Tests were quite exciting as I remember.
The flip side of the coin, on reading Shane Warne's recent article, generally in praise of Graham Onions, but suggesting that he may do better to leave Durham, to find a county whereby he needs to work a little harder for his wickets.
Anyway I feel compelled to agree (in part) with KT, that there does seem to be a wider issue of bat dominating the ball throughout the land. The latest game at The Oval is a good case in point, and surely games like this cannot improve the interest in the County game generally.
Matthew Hayden (whom I never liked as a player, but have rather warmed to as a commentator) was recently saying how playing at empty grounds (in CC and Sheffield Shield) is very difficult for the players. If the CC is to be protected, then is it necessary to attract more interest in it?
Last night I heard Matthew Hoggard on the radio, commentating that Headingley is no longer the seamer-friendly wicket that it used to be. I think that this is a shame. Are our wickets (particularly at the Test grounds) being nullified so that revenue can be maximised for the whole 5 days? 2 or 3 days Tests were quite exciting as I remember.
The flip side of the coin, on reading Shane Warne's recent article, generally in praise of Graham Onions, but suggesting that he may do better to leave Durham, to find a county whereby he needs to work a little harder for his wickets.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 09:39
"And while we're I here, I question the idea "Mr Frost" is somehow above criticism. Everyone else at the club from the Director of Cricket and the Captain down is held accountable for their performances and earn their next contract.
How is it different for the groundsman? Phil Frost must produce balanced pitches, for Somerset and indeed for the game of cricket. That's his job. We're as entitled to our opinion on that as we are on anything else. "
Mr Frost CANNOT control the weather. Mr Frost CANNOT control the prevailing soil type in the Taunton area.
Mr Rose CAN control what players SCCC sign. He CAN control the ID of our captain and the Head Coach and the overall club philosophy
Mr Langer CAN control on-field tactics and his approach to internal discipline etc etc etc.
Mr Hurry CAN control what training methods we use etc.
Do you see the difference here?????????
How is it different for the groundsman? Phil Frost must produce balanced pitches, for Somerset and indeed for the game of cricket. That's his job. We're as entitled to our opinion on that as we are on anything else. "
Mr Frost CANNOT control the weather. Mr Frost CANNOT control the prevailing soil type in the Taunton area.
Mr Rose CAN control what players SCCC sign. He CAN control the ID of our captain and the Head Coach and the overall club philosophy
Mr Langer CAN control on-field tactics and his approach to internal discipline etc etc etc.
Mr Hurry CAN control what training methods we use etc.
Do you see the difference here?????????
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 09:48
"Last night I heard Matthew Hoggard on the radio, commentating that Headingley is no longer the seamer-friendly wicket that it used to be. I think that this is a shame. Are our wickets (particularly at the Test grounds) being nullified so that revenue can be maximised for the whole 5 days? 2 or 3 days Tests were quite exciting as I remember.
The flip side of the coin, on reading Shane Warne's recent article, generally in praise of Graham Onions, but suggesting that he may do better to leave Durham, to find a county whereby he needs to work a little harder for his wickets."
At Edgbaston, a higher proportion of games have ended in a result in Tests in recent years than has been the case in the CC, so I don't think the Edgbaston pitch is being especially neutered for Tests. The Oval is another track that is generally flat anyway - I don't think they prepare special dead Test pitches there, either. And Headingley has become flat - to judge by county results, so if the Test pitch is flat then, well that would be what one would expect. Personally, I think Leeds has always played well when the sun shines as it is forecast to do for the first three days.
I agree with Warne about Onions.
Another point is surely about the quality of Test Match bowling? I think it is at a very, very low ebb. KT will probably say that the pitches have demoralised all the bowlers, but can one really imagine the likes of Waqar, Wasim, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Roberts, Donald, Pollock at his peak, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, McGrath, Warne, Willis, Botham, Warne, Murali, Mushy etc etc etc looking anywhere near as toothless as the attacks in this Ashes series, whatever the surface?
I cannot.
The flip side of the coin, on reading Shane Warne's recent article, generally in praise of Graham Onions, but suggesting that he may do better to leave Durham, to find a county whereby he needs to work a little harder for his wickets."
At Edgbaston, a higher proportion of games have ended in a result in Tests in recent years than has been the case in the CC, so I don't think the Edgbaston pitch is being especially neutered for Tests. The Oval is another track that is generally flat anyway - I don't think they prepare special dead Test pitches there, either. And Headingley has become flat - to judge by county results, so if the Test pitch is flat then, well that would be what one would expect. Personally, I think Leeds has always played well when the sun shines as it is forecast to do for the first three days.
I agree with Warne about Onions.
Another point is surely about the quality of Test Match bowling? I think it is at a very, very low ebb. KT will probably say that the pitches have demoralised all the bowlers, but can one really imagine the likes of Waqar, Wasim, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Roberts, Donald, Pollock at his peak, Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, McGrath, Warne, Willis, Botham, Warne, Murali, Mushy etc etc etc looking anywhere near as toothless as the attacks in this Ashes series, whatever the surface?
I cannot.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 11:31
The continual criticism of Mr Frost shows an absolute disregard for one of the finest groundsmen in the land,it's like some out of control schoolboy shouting abuse at the bigger boys from the safety of his bedroom window.
You've written the same piece now for a couple of years,KT.
Now do the right thing.
Get yourself away from your comfy chair and get down to Taunton and introduce yourself to Mr Frost and explain to him where he's going wrong.
I'm even starting to long for Botham's FTM argument.
You've written the same piece now for a couple of years,KT.
Now do the right thing.
Get yourself away from your comfy chair and get down to Taunton and introduce yourself to Mr Frost and explain to him where he's going wrong.
I'm even starting to long for Botham's FTM argument.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 11:45
I'm sure Phil would be pleased to get some expert advise!
Not heard much from Botham lately.Not joined Hants has he?
Not heard much from Botham lately.Not joined Hants has he?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 11:47
Steady BJ. If he dropped the 'F' part he may find more supporters on the media than would be comfortable.
As I posted earlier. if you want a debate about batsmen friendly regulations etc then that seems quite valid but as much as I'd love to see your extensive research and work n the subject rewarded KT I'm afraid no theory can hold water if you simply trundle it out when the conditions suit you and don't put it up against the facts over a number of matches and a number of seasons. There it falls flat on its backside and so....I have to say do you.
Taunton is batsman friendly. The regulations of the game tend to favour the batsman.
We are second in the Championship and in the finals of the T20 after reaching the quarter finals of the Friends Provident Trophy. Cricket is alive and well and living in Taunton and will thrive further with re-vitalisation of the pitches and investment in our squad in 2010
As long as the flaming rain goes away. :-)
As I posted earlier. if you want a debate about batsmen friendly regulations etc then that seems quite valid but as much as I'd love to see your extensive research and work n the subject rewarded KT I'm afraid no theory can hold water if you simply trundle it out when the conditions suit you and don't put it up against the facts over a number of matches and a number of seasons. There it falls flat on its backside and so....I have to say do you.
Taunton is batsman friendly. The regulations of the game tend to favour the batsman.
We are second in the Championship and in the finals of the T20 after reaching the quarter finals of the Friends Provident Trophy. Cricket is alive and well and living in Taunton and will thrive further with re-vitalisation of the pitches and investment in our squad in 2010
As long as the flaming rain goes away. :-)
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 11:58
Wickets are down in three of the matches today, is that due to bowler friendly pitches or good bowling or bad batting?
I can’t comment on those matches because I am not there.
I can’t comment on those matches because I am not there.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:01
Careful,Grockle.
Don't let the facts get in the way of prejudice and ill thought out arguments,our learned contributor wouldn't have too much to say if that were the case.
Don't let the facts get in the way of prejudice and ill thought out arguments,our learned contributor wouldn't have too much to say if that were the case.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:06
I'm listening to Kent v Sex game.'Sex are really in a mess 47/5.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:18
"The continual criticism of Mr Frost shows an absolute disregard for one of the finest groundsmen in the land,it's like some out of control schoolboy shouting abuse at the bigger boys from the safety of his bedroom window."
It's almost verging on libel, Jim, quite frankly.
Mr Frost could - quite conceivably - make an argument that the posts from KT on this subject imply that he is somehow not doing his utmost or, even, deliberately avoiding 'doing his bit,' for the county's title winning prospects.
Certainly, there's the very clear implication that there MUST be something that he should be doing to produce pitches that help the bowlers more that he is either ignorant of or wilfully refusing to do.
Of course, one consideration in libel cases is often whether or not a publication has given the person that has been accused of something sufficient right of reply. Whilst we are certainly not guilty of preventing Mr Frost from giving his views here, I would imagine that Mr Frost IS prevented (by the club) from having any right of reply as he would probably not be allowed to post here. Certainly, I think we many of us believe that IDB was asked to no longer post here, having once been a contributor.
It's almost verging on libel, Jim, quite frankly.
Mr Frost could - quite conceivably - make an argument that the posts from KT on this subject imply that he is somehow not doing his utmost or, even, deliberately avoiding 'doing his bit,' for the county's title winning prospects.
Certainly, there's the very clear implication that there MUST be something that he should be doing to produce pitches that help the bowlers more that he is either ignorant of or wilfully refusing to do.
Of course, one consideration in libel cases is often whether or not a publication has given the person that has been accused of something sufficient right of reply. Whilst we are certainly not guilty of preventing Mr Frost from giving his views here, I would imagine that Mr Frost IS prevented (by the club) from having any right of reply as he would probably not be allowed to post here. Certainly, I think we many of us believe that IDB was asked to no longer post here, having once been a contributor.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 13:56
They get a booklet of dos and donts AG. Doesn't seem to be as heavily regulated for players and "higher" officials though even though they are also employees of the club.
I doubt we would understand much of what was posted by the Frost family if they were allowed to. I'm not sure the filter could cope if what I've heard in conversation is any measure.
I doubt we would understand much of what was posted by the Frost family if they were allowed to. I'm not sure the filter could cope if what I've heard in conversation is any measure.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 15:19
And the bile & vitriol towards KT continues unabated.
Strange that the same level of contempt is not directed at Messrs Rose & Langer (amongst many others), who publically - and regularly - have raised the challenges of winning at Taunton.
Seems to me the most likely problem is the subsoil, about which I acknowledge I know absolutely nothing.
But then again, apart from Phil Frost, I suspect few do, so maybe some of the criticisms of certain posters, should be a bit more measured.
Grizzzly
Strange that the same level of contempt is not directed at Messrs Rose & Langer (amongst many others), who publically - and regularly - have raised the challenges of winning at Taunton.
Seems to me the most likely problem is the subsoil, about which I acknowledge I know absolutely nothing.
But then again, apart from Phil Frost, I suspect few do, so maybe some of the criticisms of certain posters, should be a bit more measured.
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 15:31
Try saying anything against Mr Rose and Mr Langer and see what happens.
You get labeled for not getting behind the players or the club and always moaning about the management.
You get labeled for not getting behind the players or the club and always moaning about the management.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 15:38
Vitriol?
KT gets criticised,just as he criticises Mr Frost.
If you think this is vitriol just wait until you hear what is said about him at the ground.
KT gets criticised,just as he criticises Mr Frost.
If you think this is vitriol just wait until you hear what is said about him at the ground.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 15:44
Speaking for myself, the reason I choose not to criticise Rose or Langer for their comments re. the pitch is that I know that those comments are made from a deeper knowledge of the facts than can be obtained from merely reading the scorecard. They are actually present at the ground to witness the issues first hand.
It's not what KT says which irritates so much (although I strongly resent any suggestion tat my comments have been bilious or vitriolic) but the fact that they are made with such utter certainty, and such utter refusal to countenance any alternative explanation, from the perspective of a computer terminal in North London.
It's not what KT says which irritates so much (although I strongly resent any suggestion tat my comments have been bilious or vitriolic) but the fact that they are made with such utter certainty, and such utter refusal to countenance any alternative explanation, from the perspective of a computer terminal in North London.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 16:06
Sorry FE, I wasn't referring to your postings. The thread over the last few pages is fairly transparent in terms of where the contempt has been coming from.
The only thing I would query from your 14.44 post is that I just don't get why KT gets pilloried for merely echoing the views expressed by many learned others much closer to the scene than he is (or indeed I & many of us are).
Whatever happened to rule 1 ?
Grizzzly
The only thing I would query from your 14.44 post is that I just don't get why KT gets pilloried for merely echoing the views expressed by many learned others much closer to the scene than he is (or indeed I & many of us are).
Whatever happened to rule 1 ?
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:05
Speaking for myself, I HAVE criticised both Langer and Rose for publicly moaning about the pitch when they have done so. The main reason why I did so is that I don't see how it serves any constructive purpose to do so?
The other reason is that I think moaning about the pitch is used as an attempt to deflect from looking at other reasons why we might not be winning many home games. And by that I don't mean factors they cannot control, such as the weather.
The other reason is that I think moaning about the pitch is used as an attempt to deflect from looking at other reasons why we might not be winning many home games. And by that I don't mean factors they cannot control, such as the weather.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:17
I also have to agree with most of what KT said.
Perhaps cricket groundsmen, in general, are a bit like school caretakers.
They may mistakenly be inclined to think that the cricket pitches that they prepare are for their own kudos only, and not for the benefit of the players of the club who share the same employer as them.
Perhaps cricket groundsmen, in general, are a bit like school caretakers.
They may mistakenly be inclined to think that the cricket pitches that they prepare are for their own kudos only, and not for the benefit of the players of the club who share the same employer as them.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:19
The use of the heavy roller is flattening the life out of pitches, not just at Taunton but countrywide.
Perhaps only the light roller should be permitted once the toss has been made and, a further perhaps, this may then bring about a deterioration of the pitch so that spinners come into play later in the game.
This doesn’t happen at Taunton does it?
Perhaps only the light roller should be permitted once the toss has been made and, a further perhaps, this may then bring about a deterioration of the pitch so that spinners come into play later in the game.
This doesn’t happen at Taunton does it?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:33
They certainly did use the light roller during the Yorks game.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:37
The roller issue is something I've been talking about on here for ages.
As for KT,I'm sure he's big enough to defend himself.
His criticism of a very decent man is very rude and disrespectful in my opinion.
As for KT,I'm sure he's big enough to defend himself.
His criticism of a very decent man is very rude and disrespectful in my opinion.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 17:49
Thanks BristolRob. I wasn't aware of that.
If the Yorkshire game is anything to judge by (ignoring the great result for Somerset of course) it's not much of an idea then is it, if one is looking to produce a better balance between bat and ball?
Not all together an original idea from me though.
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
If the Yorkshire game is anything to judge by (ignoring the great result for Somerset of course) it's not much of an idea then is it, if one is looking to produce a better balance between bat and ball?
Not all together an original idea from me though.
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 18:13
Rose's comments in the piece to which you link, CP, suggest that the remarks in his Sunday Independent piece you quoted the other day (Edit: on page 8 of this thread) weren't as indicative of fatalism as you implied.
As to the roller question, I'm a little confused, as I'm sure I've heard other pundits suggest that the use of a heavy roller on a dry surface can actually accelrate the decline of the wicket once it's initial flattening effect plays out?
I'm no expert in these things but I'm sure I heard it expressed once as a reason for not enforcing a follow-on. As in, "If Side X bats for a short time, they get the opportunity to choose to have the big roller on, which will potentially break the surface up."
Perhaps I'm mistaken.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:18:22:19 by Frome Exile.
As to the roller question, I'm a little confused, as I'm sure I've heard other pundits suggest that the use of a heavy roller on a dry surface can actually accelrate the decline of the wicket once it's initial flattening effect plays out?
I'm no expert in these things but I'm sure I heard it expressed once as a reason for not enforcing a follow-on. As in, "If Side X bats for a short time, they get the opportunity to choose to have the big roller on, which will potentially break the surface up."
Perhaps I'm mistaken.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:18:22:19 by Frome Exile.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 18:15
We'd need somebody who actually knows something about these things to comment,FE.
Sadly Mr Frost is not allowed to post.
The rest of us may as well be discussing astro physics.
Sadly Mr Frost is not allowed to post.
The rest of us may as well be discussing astro physics.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 18:25
Saying it doesn't make it true Grizz and just because the poster is KT doesn't demand respect.
'bile and vitriol' is perhaps going over the top. I believe you will be referring to me. I have a right to express an opinion as well and I do feel that in this case I have the right to vent my personal frustration on a post that seems to me designed to do nothing more than create that frustration with no intention whatsoever of taking it to any kind of conclusion
The great people who think the same are the same great men over and over again.
The argument ONLY appears when the circumstances might suggest it - as do the comments from the great and good.
The great and the good DO NOT say;
a) The wicket is the only and major factor in drawing games at the County Ground so they do NOT back up KT's main point
b) No marvellous spokesperson I have seen referred to in the three years when this one point has been posted almost every draw at home that we have had has EVER said that Taunton is tolling the death knell of cricket in the UK... could be wrong please give me the quote if I'm mistaken and I'm not sure they have identified the pitch as the reason for our supposed dearth of bowling quality either. Please find some it would at least make the post worth reading.
To gain respect one has to post an opinion and then discuss it. KT doesn't. He posts the same post then is hardly heard of again on this subject until we draw again and then he posts again. If we win a number of games in between he is nowhere to be seen on this point despite being asked questions about his theory.
I totally respect his posts on other subjects but he has an obsession with this one and to be honest it seems he has
a) no intention of discussing what the figures actually say about his premis
b) no intention of accepting any deviation from this premis related to any specific game - are we supposewd to respect that stance just because someone who is accepted as a regular sensible poster states it?
So peope get frustrated with it. This is no debate. It's a statement which has been discussed to death. Nothing new is offered and no variances of the game in question are ever taken into account and I just wish he'd post it on the thread I have kept going for the purpose rather than creating work for me merging thread after thread to keep the discussions going about the game rather than this old chestnut.
I would suggest that your reaction would be slightly different if his posting name was different and that person kept posting nearly the same post over and over again with very little variation on different threads.
Would there be demands to ban him or keep his posts off the site? Hmmmmm
I think in fact that I'll request that unless the poster wants to actually discusss the role of the pitch in a game's result from all angles I would ask them to post their conclusion that the only thing that caused a draw was the fact we play at Taunton on the 'killing cricket' thread where we can store it for posterity.
Other points have been made about this by other frustrated posters (not known for their 'bile and vitriol') and to go over them again would simply be adding more repetition to a topic that could do with being filed until the usual start of the posts next season when the winter changes might make it worth talking about again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:18:31:11 by Grockle.
'bile and vitriol' is perhaps going over the top. I believe you will be referring to me. I have a right to express an opinion as well and I do feel that in this case I have the right to vent my personal frustration on a post that seems to me designed to do nothing more than create that frustration with no intention whatsoever of taking it to any kind of conclusion
The great people who think the same are the same great men over and over again.
The argument ONLY appears when the circumstances might suggest it - as do the comments from the great and good.
The great and the good DO NOT say;
a) The wicket is the only and major factor in drawing games at the County Ground so they do NOT back up KT's main point
b) No marvellous spokesperson I have seen referred to in the three years when this one point has been posted almost every draw at home that we have had has EVER said that Taunton is tolling the death knell of cricket in the UK... could be wrong please give me the quote if I'm mistaken and I'm not sure they have identified the pitch as the reason for our supposed dearth of bowling quality either. Please find some it would at least make the post worth reading.
To gain respect one has to post an opinion and then discuss it. KT doesn't. He posts the same post then is hardly heard of again on this subject until we draw again and then he posts again. If we win a number of games in between he is nowhere to be seen on this point despite being asked questions about his theory.
I totally respect his posts on other subjects but he has an obsession with this one and to be honest it seems he has
a) no intention of discussing what the figures actually say about his premis
b) no intention of accepting any deviation from this premis related to any specific game - are we supposewd to respect that stance just because someone who is accepted as a regular sensible poster states it?
So peope get frustrated with it. This is no debate. It's a statement which has been discussed to death. Nothing new is offered and no variances of the game in question are ever taken into account and I just wish he'd post it on the thread I have kept going for the purpose rather than creating work for me merging thread after thread to keep the discussions going about the game rather than this old chestnut.
I would suggest that your reaction would be slightly different if his posting name was different and that person kept posting nearly the same post over and over again with very little variation on different threads.
Would there be demands to ban him or keep his posts off the site? Hmmmmm
I think in fact that I'll request that unless the poster wants to actually discusss the role of the pitch in a game's result from all angles I would ask them to post their conclusion that the only thing that caused a draw was the fact we play at Taunton on the 'killing cricket' thread where we can store it for posterity.
Other points have been made about this by other frustrated posters (not known for their 'bile and vitriol') and to go over them again would simply be adding more repetition to a topic that could do with being filed until the usual start of the posts next season when the winter changes might make it worth talking about again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:05:18:31:11 by Grockle.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 19:41
Well, I have to agree with you Frome Exile that my implication concerning Brian Rose’s comments in this week’s ‘Sunday Independent’, is indeed at variance with those expressed in the linked article which appeared in today’s ‘Daily Telegraph.’
As Director of Cricket at Somerset C.C.C., one would expect Brian Rose to publicly ‘talk up’ his team’s chances of winning their first ever County Championship, wouldn’t one? It isn’t going to happen though as much as I, and thousands of others would wish.
As regards the roller question, I really couldn’t say either, so in that respect I suppose that, for a very different reason, I am in a similar position to Mr. Frost.
As Director of Cricket at Somerset C.C.C., one would expect Brian Rose to publicly ‘talk up’ his team’s chances of winning their first ever County Championship, wouldn’t one? It isn’t going to happen though as much as I, and thousands of others would wish.
As regards the roller question, I really couldn’t say either, so in that respect I suppose that, for a very different reason, I am in a similar position to Mr. Frost.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 21:14
You would expect Rosey to be pushing the positives
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 22:23
Yes, think we all know he was being realistic but that's our job realy.
He should still be saying we can do it, just like i'm sure Hurry will say how we can still win the Warwicks game
He should still be saying we can do it, just like i'm sure Hurry will say how we can still win the Warwicks game
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 22:39
Grockle - to clarify I was referring in particular to AG's/BJ's & your own comments, which I felt went OTT in response to KT's post, who clearly is held in contempt as far as this particular subject is concerned.
It made no difference whether it was KT or anyone else. Others (e.g Botham re FTM) also seem to attract similar ridicule for reasons that I don't really understand.
As you say, just because it is KT posting shouldn't mean (necessarily) that it commands respect, (although I thought that was a fundamental rule of the board ?!). I just don't see how withering sarcasm helps further any 'debate'.
Maybe I've missed the key points of KT's ongoing battle. I had not read him as saying that the Pitch was THE ONLY reason for the challenges we face at Taunton, but that it is a very material one. I share that view - however ill informed/ill qualified I may be to say so !
I know I'm not there & can't see it, but I did for three decades until 2003 & - subjectively - it does seem that it has become more difficult to get 20 opposition wickets in recent times. As JL said recently "that has to be a concern", and throwing brickbats at KT (or anyone else) won't change things one way or another.
As for that 'it's repetitive' complaint, well OK so what if it is ? Many subjects get repeatedly aired (Kolpaks/JL/ITB/paucity of bowlers etc etc.), yet most of them (ITB possibly excepted) seem to be conducted in a reasonable manner.
I have no idea who KT is, nor what position he fills/agenda he has. I have never met him, spoken to him, e-mailed him or had any other form of communication with him.
I just didn't feel the reaction he got was necessary or appropriate.
Still, there you go.
I'll go back to the woods now & watch from the sidelines.
Grizzzly
It made no difference whether it was KT or anyone else. Others (e.g Botham re FTM) also seem to attract similar ridicule for reasons that I don't really understand.
As you say, just because it is KT posting shouldn't mean (necessarily) that it commands respect, (although I thought that was a fundamental rule of the board ?!). I just don't see how withering sarcasm helps further any 'debate'.
Maybe I've missed the key points of KT's ongoing battle. I had not read him as saying that the Pitch was THE ONLY reason for the challenges we face at Taunton, but that it is a very material one. I share that view - however ill informed/ill qualified I may be to say so !
I know I'm not there & can't see it, but I did for three decades until 2003 & - subjectively - it does seem that it has become more difficult to get 20 opposition wickets in recent times. As JL said recently "that has to be a concern", and throwing brickbats at KT (or anyone else) won't change things one way or another.
As for that 'it's repetitive' complaint, well OK so what if it is ? Many subjects get repeatedly aired (Kolpaks/JL/ITB/paucity of bowlers etc etc.), yet most of them (ITB possibly excepted) seem to be conducted in a reasonable manner.
I have no idea who KT is, nor what position he fills/agenda he has. I have never met him, spoken to him, e-mailed him or had any other form of communication with him.
I just didn't feel the reaction he got was necessary or appropriate.
Still, there you go.
I'll go back to the woods now & watch from the sidelines.
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 23:33
Please show me the vitriol I wrote,Grizzzly.
It's odd that you condone a full frontal attack on a wonderful servant to the club and expect all of us to sit back and let it pass without comment.
There's no vitriol from anybody,get a grip and sense of proportion man.
It's odd that you condone a full frontal attack on a wonderful servant to the club and expect all of us to sit back and let it pass without comment.
There's no vitriol from anybody,get a grip and sense of proportion man.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 23:45
I would absolutely love Frosty to come out with a response on this matter.
Why is it he can't give his side?
JL, Tres, Hurry, Rose, Nash etc are all permitted to speak in the press, why not Phil?
He clearly has more knowledge on this topic than all of us put together.
It would be most interesting to hear his views on the squares, the issues he has with it and the possibilities of changing things in the future.
I personally don't think it is far away from being perfect, put 2 decent attacks over 4 full days and it's not far from where it should be
Why is it he can't give his side?
JL, Tres, Hurry, Rose, Nash etc are all permitted to speak in the press, why not Phil?
He clearly has more knowledge on this topic than all of us put together.
It would be most interesting to hear his views on the squares, the issues he has with it and the possibilities of changing things in the future.
I personally don't think it is far away from being perfect, put 2 decent attacks over 4 full days and it's not far from where it should be
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 01:53
Sorry BJ - I don't think it's me that needs to 'get a grip' or a 'sense of proportion'.
Your 10.31 & 11.01 contributions hardly seem to follow the rule of respecting other peoples point of view.
Nor have I "condoned a full frontal attack on a wonderful servant of the Club". Come on Jim, that's simply not the case. Please read my posts again I simply took issue with the level of response to KT.
I don't even think KT has launched a full frontal attack anyway. He merely raised the question as to whether PF should be immune to criticism. Clearly he should not be immune, but as I said before, as the problem is likely the subsoil anyway, he likely has no case to answer.
So, just to repeat, I am NOT criticising PF or condoning any attacks on him.
I simply was/am uneasy with the level of ridicule aimed at any poster who holds a sincerely held view - however much it is out of favour with others.
Grizzzly
Your 10.31 & 11.01 contributions hardly seem to follow the rule of respecting other peoples point of view.
Nor have I "condoned a full frontal attack on a wonderful servant of the Club". Come on Jim, that's simply not the case. Please read my posts again I simply took issue with the level of response to KT.
I don't even think KT has launched a full frontal attack anyway. He merely raised the question as to whether PF should be immune to criticism. Clearly he should not be immune, but as I said before, as the problem is likely the subsoil anyway, he likely has no case to answer.
So, just to repeat, I am NOT criticising PF or condoning any attacks on him.
I simply was/am uneasy with the level of ridicule aimed at any poster who holds a sincerely held view - however much it is out of favour with others.
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 04:02
I don't know whether it is living thousands of miles away from Taunton Grizzzly, which gives us a different perspective on things but I really don't understand why people react so strongly to KT's posts. I don't see an attack on Phil Frost, just a need for more information. We all know that the Club is not "cutting edge" in its media relations and let's forget about Phil posting on here, I don't see BR and JL doing that, even if they were allowed to do so.
I do think that a media release/interview with Phil toward the end of the season with his analysis of the pitches this year and plans for the winter would be excellent but will the managment team think this is necessary? Don't bet your snowshoes on it G.
KT's posts that are simply repetition can be simply ignored, those that make the same points but with a different context i.e. the more general concerns in respect of the dominance of bat over ball, to me are worth reading and should provoke sensible discussion not personal attacks. For many of us, this message board is our "lifeline" to Somerset cricket, please respect the views of all who post even if we rarely get to the County Ground.
And yes FE, in reference to my (semi-serious) suggestion to recruit Ryan Sidebottom, he may have injury problems but at least he would bring down the average age of our seam attack as he would be the "baby" of Carl, Alfonso and Ben and nearly 10 years younger than the retiring Caddy!
I do think that a media release/interview with Phil toward the end of the season with his analysis of the pitches this year and plans for the winter would be excellent but will the managment team think this is necessary? Don't bet your snowshoes on it G.
KT's posts that are simply repetition can be simply ignored, those that make the same points but with a different context i.e. the more general concerns in respect of the dominance of bat over ball, to me are worth reading and should provoke sensible discussion not personal attacks. For many of us, this message board is our "lifeline" to Somerset cricket, please respect the views of all who post even if we rarely get to the County Ground.
And yes FE, in reference to my (semi-serious) suggestion to recruit Ryan Sidebottom, he may have injury problems but at least he would bring down the average age of our seam attack as he would be the "baby" of Carl, Alfonso and Ben and nearly 10 years younger than the retiring Caddy!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 05:13
The problem is that the exact same point has been debated many times over the last couple of years with KT refusing to accept that others may have a point.
KT will raise this issue when there is a drawn game at Taunton,regardless of the fact that those present have stated that there may be other factors which have led to the drawn game.
The Notts game was a classic example.
Those present saw some excellent cricket pitch being played on a pitch,that after 23 consecutive days of rain,Mr Frost and his team had every reason to be proud of.
He takes his job very seriously and takes great personal pride in producing first class cricket wickets.
The game,if the weather hadn't ruined it,would have produced a positive result.
The Taunton regulars were in no doubt about this and were in a far better position to assess the situation than somebody sat in an office a few hundred miles away.
Instead of accepting the thoughts and opinions of those present we get treated to the same piece from KT which has been aired verbatim for at least two years.
What winds people up is that this isn't debated.
It is fact.
Fact as KT sees it.
In doing so he criticises a man who is widely recognised as being one of the best in the trade.
That same man has no right of reply,henceforth the majority of those who go to Taunton and see the work he does,feel the need to defend him.
Why doesn't this issue crop up when we win,or lose at Taunton?
Why only when there is a draw?Does Mr Frost do something different for those matches?
We are doing extremely well in all competitions,albeit with a limited bowling attack.
The pitch isn't exactly holding us back on these fronts.
Taunton always has been a ground which favours the batsmen.
It probably always will do.
It is also a ground which rewards good,quality bowling.
To keep on blaming the groundsman is lazy and wrong.
To not listen to those who are actually watching the games is arrogant.
That is why people get annoyed.
If those who live thousands of miles away want to be kept informed of what is going on during the games then trust me,they'd be far better off listening to experienced cricket watchers who are actually watching proceedings,than somebody who is not only not watching the game but probably hasn't been to Taunton for a number of years to see for himself what is going on.
If that's vitriol then my name is Andre Van Troost.
KT will raise this issue when there is a drawn game at Taunton,regardless of the fact that those present have stated that there may be other factors which have led to the drawn game.
The Notts game was a classic example.
Those present saw some excellent cricket pitch being played on a pitch,that after 23 consecutive days of rain,Mr Frost and his team had every reason to be proud of.
He takes his job very seriously and takes great personal pride in producing first class cricket wickets.
The game,if the weather hadn't ruined it,would have produced a positive result.
The Taunton regulars were in no doubt about this and were in a far better position to assess the situation than somebody sat in an office a few hundred miles away.
Instead of accepting the thoughts and opinions of those present we get treated to the same piece from KT which has been aired verbatim for at least two years.
What winds people up is that this isn't debated.
It is fact.
Fact as KT sees it.
In doing so he criticises a man who is widely recognised as being one of the best in the trade.
That same man has no right of reply,henceforth the majority of those who go to Taunton and see the work he does,feel the need to defend him.
Why doesn't this issue crop up when we win,or lose at Taunton?
Why only when there is a draw?Does Mr Frost do something different for those matches?
We are doing extremely well in all competitions,albeit with a limited bowling attack.
The pitch isn't exactly holding us back on these fronts.
Taunton always has been a ground which favours the batsmen.
It probably always will do.
It is also a ground which rewards good,quality bowling.
To keep on blaming the groundsman is lazy and wrong.
To not listen to those who are actually watching the games is arrogant.
That is why people get annoyed.
If those who live thousands of miles away want to be kept informed of what is going on during the games then trust me,they'd be far better off listening to experienced cricket watchers who are actually watching proceedings,than somebody who is not only not watching the game but probably hasn't been to Taunton for a number of years to see for himself what is going on.
If that's vitriol then my name is Andre Van Troost.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 05:57
I wondered why your posts sometimes seemed a trifle wayward BJ !
(JOKING !!!)
Grizzzly
(JOKING !!!)
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 10:10
I have already admitted that my responses to KT on this subject can be a little coloured by the past. For the first couple of years of his posting history here he couldn't even be bothered to get Tony (sic) Frost's name right, despite repeated reminders. This "forgetfulness" took on such epic proportions that it started to seem deliberate and disrespectful, and suggested to me that KT had an anti-Phil agenda, rather than a genuine desire to discuss the subject.
Perhaps I'm wrong.
Almost certainly, it's childish of me to let such silly things colour an opinion, but we're all human.
Perhaps I'm wrong.
Almost certainly, it's childish of me to let such silly things colour an opinion, but we're all human.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 10:29
I can think of a few who aren't (human)
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 12:15
I have to say I no longer feel that KT is posting this for any other reasn than to create a reaction. He has nothing new to say on the subject and he will accept no information from eye witnesses about the nature of the game he is commenting on but has not seen.
I understand that being here does not have to be a requirement BUT that means you have to suggest rather than state as the unequivical fact of the matter.
It is the same reason why other posters (the third man and pint from Giles Clarke threads for example) are treated with the same response.
In all three cases I would suggest that our Rule 1 could be invoked for the poster as well as the respondees.
Maybe the solution is simply not to reply to the post unless it has something new or relevant to the fixture it is supposedly related to. I'll act on that basis in terms of future posts on this subject. Unfortunately I cannot move posts to other threads so they will disappear or be copied.
We shall see. But I think the plea probably should be.
Make comments about the pitch relevant to the present situation rather than just digging up old stuff whenever the team draw at home AND if the pitch post is just a regurgitation of the same old same old please don't respond and I'll move it to 'killing cricket' and people can go there to continue that little circular argument.
I understand that being here does not have to be a requirement BUT that means you have to suggest rather than state as the unequivical fact of the matter.
It is the same reason why other posters (the third man and pint from Giles Clarke threads for example) are treated with the same response.
In all three cases I would suggest that our Rule 1 could be invoked for the poster as well as the respondees.
Maybe the solution is simply not to reply to the post unless it has something new or relevant to the fixture it is supposedly related to. I'll act on that basis in terms of future posts on this subject. Unfortunately I cannot move posts to other threads so they will disappear or be copied.
We shall see. But I think the plea probably should be.
Make comments about the pitch relevant to the present situation rather than just digging up old stuff whenever the team draw at home AND if the pitch post is just a regurgitation of the same old same old please don't respond and I'll move it to 'killing cricket' and people can go there to continue that little circular argument.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 12:54
"I don't even think KT has launched a full frontal attack anyway. He merely raised the question as to whether PF should be immune to criticism. Clearly he should not be immune, but as I said before, as the problem is likely the subsoil anyway, he likely has no case to answer. "
Some people take the view that if one hasn't played Test cricket, one should not really comment or at least one's comments have little validity. I T Botham is one who, I believe, subscribes to that way of thinking. Sir ITB once 'settled,' a non-cricket related argument with Simon Hughes by asking him how many Test wickets he had taken!! If he used that with respect to a non-cricket argument, then I think my supposition looks entirely reasonable.
Personally, I think that's cobblers. Anyone who has played cricket at any level and/or watched a large amount of it at the highest level (or other levels) probably has some valuable opinions to offer - and is certainly more than merely entitled to express them.
But what about the preparation of grounds?
How many of us have EVER prepared a ground at any level of cricket?
How many of us have ever watched an expert Groudsman at work over a period of time in the way that we've watched an expert fast bowler like, say, Malcolm Marshall over a period of time??
I think the key point is that - unless anyone wants to step forward and claim some special knowledge - we are all essentially IGNORANT about groundsmanship.
Of course, we're entitled to say what we think but I don't think it really carries any weight at all (on the topic of Mr Frost) since we don't really understand that of which we speak.
The clear thrust of KT's posts is that Mr Frost SHOULD be subject to some kind of critical scrutiny from us. But we have no basis on which to provide some kind of critical scrutiny.
Furthermore, as I have suggested, KT seems to be implying that Mr Frost is somehow not doing his best to help in our title bid - i.e that Mr Frost could make the pitches more conducive for the bowlers (without incurring points deductions) if only he actually wanted to. I think this is almost certainly false. Moreover, I would have to guess that if that was what Mr Rose and the cricket committee believed, then Mr Frost would be looking for alternative employment.
Some people take the view that if one hasn't played Test cricket, one should not really comment or at least one's comments have little validity. I T Botham is one who, I believe, subscribes to that way of thinking. Sir ITB once 'settled,' a non-cricket related argument with Simon Hughes by asking him how many Test wickets he had taken!! If he used that with respect to a non-cricket argument, then I think my supposition looks entirely reasonable.
Personally, I think that's cobblers. Anyone who has played cricket at any level and/or watched a large amount of it at the highest level (or other levels) probably has some valuable opinions to offer - and is certainly more than merely entitled to express them.
But what about the preparation of grounds?
How many of us have EVER prepared a ground at any level of cricket?
How many of us have ever watched an expert Groudsman at work over a period of time in the way that we've watched an expert fast bowler like, say, Malcolm Marshall over a period of time??
I think the key point is that - unless anyone wants to step forward and claim some special knowledge - we are all essentially IGNORANT about groundsmanship.
Of course, we're entitled to say what we think but I don't think it really carries any weight at all (on the topic of Mr Frost) since we don't really understand that of which we speak.
The clear thrust of KT's posts is that Mr Frost SHOULD be subject to some kind of critical scrutiny from us. But we have no basis on which to provide some kind of critical scrutiny.
Furthermore, as I have suggested, KT seems to be implying that Mr Frost is somehow not doing his best to help in our title bid - i.e that Mr Frost could make the pitches more conducive for the bowlers (without incurring points deductions) if only he actually wanted to. I think this is almost certainly false. Moreover, I would have to guess that if that was what Mr Rose and the cricket committee believed, then Mr Frost would be looking for alternative employment.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 13:06
I have prepared pitches: but I still wouldn't consider myself particularly well-placed to comment.
There's a lot more to developing a square for use day-in, day-out by professional cricketers, and preparing pitches to last 390 overs, than the "water, roll, mow and mark" level of preparing a club pitch on an already estblished square that I've been involved with.
There's a lot more to developing a square for use day-in, day-out by professional cricketers, and preparing pitches to last 390 overs, than the "water, roll, mow and mark" level of preparing a club pitch on an already estblished square that I've been involved with.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 20:19
As someone who used to visit Taunton (and Bath, Weston, Glastonbury) regularly in the 70s and 80s, but is now unable to do so because of distance, work and family commitments, could I ask that none of us criticise people's opinions on the grounds that they don't go to the games. I'd love to be able to be at Taunton every day of the season, but I can't - I hope my views are still relevant - as are Congar#s, Grizzzly's, samathai's - maybe even Ned's 
Anyway, my main point - and beef with KT - is that he only seems to post on this one subject, this bee in his bonnet. I haven't checked this out, but it seems to me to be the case.
I've posted before that I do have a little sympathy with his argument, that Taunton is a little too bat-friendly BUT he goes too far in his criticism and he only seems to repeat the same posting over and over again. For example, I would guess that we don't hear from KT when the team wins (fairly often this year!), when a player has an outstanding individual performance, or when we're discussing something like, for example, Neil Edwards' move to Notts.
Anyway, my main point - and beef with KT - is that he only seems to post on this one subject, this bee in his bonnet. I haven't checked this out, but it seems to me to be the case.
I've posted before that I do have a little sympathy with his argument, that Taunton is a little too bat-friendly BUT he goes too far in his criticism and he only seems to repeat the same posting over and over again. For example, I would guess that we don't hear from KT when the team wins (fairly often this year!), when a player has an outstanding individual performance, or when we're discussing something like, for example, Neil Edwards' move to Notts.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 20:35
I know what you're saying Shep but KT has taken a very direct stance against Mr Frost's work and has criticised it at length without paying any attention to those who watch every game played on it.
When he does this it doesn't become a debate,to him it becomes fact and anyone who agrees with him is wrong.
Of course that will upset people,to get a fair assessment of the wicket we have to listen to those who witness things regularly.
As Grockle rightly points out,KT seems to be doing it to get a response.
Which he does,because many here feel quite protective of a man who is unable to respond to a nagging critic.
When he does this it doesn't become a debate,to him it becomes fact and anyone who agrees with him is wrong.
Of course that will upset people,to get a fair assessment of the wicket we have to listen to those who witness things regularly.
As Grockle rightly points out,KT seems to be doing it to get a response.
Which he does,because many here feel quite protective of a man who is unable to respond to a nagging critic.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 20:54
It sounds as though KT's 'observations,' have actually been mentioned to Mr Frost (or at least, he is aware of them.) And it doesn't sound as if he is very enamoured with those views - perhaps not surprisingly.
I do wonder, though, if part of the reason that he may be fed up with criticism, might be because Phil also sees what almost appears to be 'official,' (implied) criticism of our pitches in the media too (i.e. supported by quotes from Rose/Langer about how 'difficult,' it is to win on his pitches)
I do wonder, though, if part of the reason that he may be fed up with criticism, might be because Phil also sees what almost appears to be 'official,' (implied) criticism of our pitches in the media too (i.e. supported by quotes from Rose/Langer about how 'difficult,' it is to win on his pitches)
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 22:29
Agree entirely with that AG. He wouldn't be human if he wasn't affected by it.
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 06/08/2009 23:18
Frosty needs to do a public Q+A that would be most informative and the impression i have gained if you would get some very honest answers indeed...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Congar (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 04:59
Not everyone might be comfortable with a public Q & A that's why I suggested an interview as a media release but hopefully answering all the questions we have.
Perhaps the Club could invite questions through the website, but didn't they say they were going to do that at some time in the past?
Perhaps the Club could invite questions through the website, but didn't they say they were going to do that at some time in the past?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 09:16
Would everybody be happy with what ever he said, I doubt it.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 09:20
"Frosty needs to do a public Q+A that would be most informative and the impression i have gained if you would get some very honest answers indeed..."
I suspect he'd be a bit too candid for the club's liking i.e. would probably say something like it takes a long time e.g. a decade or something to significantly overhaul a square.
I'd guess that's probably not the public pronouncement that the club would want - they'd probably want optimistic noises about how it might be like the WACA within the year and nonsense like that.
Grockle has also suggested that the language deployed may be a little indelicate as well!
I suspect he'd be a bit too candid for the club's liking i.e. would probably say something like it takes a long time e.g. a decade or something to significantly overhaul a square.
I'd guess that's probably not the public pronouncement that the club would want - they'd probably want optimistic noises about how it might be like the WACA within the year and nonsense like that.
Grockle has also suggested that the language deployed may be a little indelicate as well!
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 11:19
Perhaps one suggestion that would meet with the approval of the Club, their members and Phil Frost and his hard - working team, would be for the editor of the Club's Yearbook to interview Phil about the toils and tribulations of being a Head Groundsman at Somerset, with a view to it being published in the 2009/10 edition.
I am sure that the editor would be prepared to try it.
Twenty five years ago, the then Head Groundsman at Somerset, Gordon Prosser who had held a similar position at Worcester, penned such an article in the Club's Yearbook.
It began: -
"The Test and County Cricket Board (now of course the E.C.B.) pitches sub-committee expects a county groundsman to produce pitches which shall have pace and bounce throughout the game and also provide for the wrist spinner to turn the ball on the second day and the finger spinner to turn it appreciably on the third."
Only 3-day County Championship matches then of course.
"Pace and bounce" - there was probably more of that a quarter of a century ago, than there is nowadays, I think.
Gordon then expanded upon the details of putting his considerable (and award-winning) skills into place throughout the season.
He ended the article with these words:-
"At the end of the day, of course, the answer lies in the soil. The sower of the seed is the reaper of his own deeds, after all."
Very interesting, it is too.
I am sure that the editor would be prepared to try it.
Twenty five years ago, the then Head Groundsman at Somerset, Gordon Prosser who had held a similar position at Worcester, penned such an article in the Club's Yearbook.
It began: -
"The Test and County Cricket Board (now of course the E.C.B.) pitches sub-committee expects a county groundsman to produce pitches which shall have pace and bounce throughout the game and also provide for the wrist spinner to turn the ball on the second day and the finger spinner to turn it appreciably on the third."
Only 3-day County Championship matches then of course.
"Pace and bounce" - there was probably more of that a quarter of a century ago, than there is nowadays, I think.
Gordon then expanded upon the details of putting his considerable (and award-winning) skills into place throughout the season.
He ended the article with these words:-
"At the end of the day, of course, the answer lies in the soil. The sower of the seed is the reaper of his own deeds, after all."
Very interesting, it is too.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 12:12
Exactly right,and that is why Phil keeps on winning awards.
Thanks for confirming that Clarence Parker.
Thanks for confirming that Clarence Parker.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 12:23
I'd certainly buy the Year Book if it contained such a piece by Mr Frost, CP.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 14:06
Quote:Big Jim
Exactly right, and that is why Phil keeps on winning awards.
Thanks for confirming that Clarence Parker.
I am sorry Big Jim, but I am unsure as to what it was that I actually confirmed to you.
Somerset has been extremely fortunate in having a long line of dedicated and competent groundsmen in their long history.
I have known them all, from Cecil Buttle down to Phil Frost, and Gordon Prosser (whose article in the 1984 Yearbook, I referred to) was up with the best of them.
He was extremely skilled in his profession, and I always found him to be nothing other than a true gentleman as well. He too won awards for his craftsmanship, but it is solely a matter of opinion as to whether the Taunton pitches had more pace and bounce 25 years ago than they do today.
As Gordon said, "At the end of the day, the answer lies in the soil.”
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 15:35
Oh sorry,Clarence Parker.
I thought you were just confirming what a great job Phil and his team have been doing.
I didn't think you'd have been critical.
That's not your style.
Is it?
I thought you were just confirming what a great job Phil and his team have been doing.
I didn't think you'd have been critical.
That's not your style.
Is it?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 15:47
Of course not,we all recognise your cheery style.
Here is a very interesting article and may be the closest thing we can get to hearing what Phil has to say about the pitch.
It's a good read.
THE GROUNDSMAN(killer of cricket)
Here is a very interesting article and may be the closest thing we can get to hearing what Phil has to say about the pitch.
It's a good read.
THE GROUNDSMAN(killer of cricket)
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 15:56
One of KT's eternal refrains is that we should revert to playing at Bath and Weston in the hope we might get results on those grounds.
Whilst it won't happen for economic reasons, the below suggests that playing more often at both of those venues might help Mr Frost with the Taunton wickets;
""Look" he says, "My job is to prepare the best wicket I can within the timescale available. I am being told that wickets should be a more even contest between bat and ball. Fair enough, but to try and do that I need time on my wickets. And how can I do that when the fixture list is so crammed? And it's not just the county games - LV, Friends Provident, Pro 40, Twenty20 - I've also got to accommodate One Day Internationals (ODI's), The Ladies Twenty20 World Cup as well as other ladies matches. I'm not moaning, just making an observation.""
Whilst it won't happen for economic reasons, the below suggests that playing more often at both of those venues might help Mr Frost with the Taunton wickets;
""Look" he says, "My job is to prepare the best wicket I can within the timescale available. I am being told that wickets should be a more even contest between bat and ball. Fair enough, but to try and do that I need time on my wickets. And how can I do that when the fixture list is so crammed? And it's not just the county games - LV, Friends Provident, Pro 40, Twenty20 - I've also got to accommodate One Day Internationals (ODI's), The Ladies Twenty20 World Cup as well as other ladies matches. I'm not moaning, just making an observation.""
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:07
It has been said for a few years now.
Take the T20 to Bath.
It would work well for so many reasons.
Take the T20 to Bath.
It would work well for so many reasons.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:10
As if Mr Frost did not have enough problems, LoL will now brand him as Australian because of his phraseology in the above passage.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:24
They get on very well,AG,no worries there.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:26
Very interesting article, clearly highlighting the love PF has for his job & the challenges he faces daily.
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:41
Edited out "Wrong Thread"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:07:16:46:38 by Mike BOS.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:08:07:16:46:38 by Mike BOS.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 16:44
I'd say it's faith bordering on the delusional, to expect Caddy & Co to be able to bowl the ball accurately over a distance of (I would guess) about 150 miles to Horsham in order to rid us of Notts batsmen.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 18:52
excellent article, realy interesting.
maybe those who criticise so much should suggest what he can do about things, i suggest not many could tell Phil something abouthis art that he doesnt already know...
maybe those who criticise so much should suggest what he can do about things, i suggest not many could tell Phil something abouthis art that he doesnt already know...
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/08/2009 21:40
One thing Phil didn’t mention much of when saying about having time to work on the square is all the other matches that are fitted in between the first XI matches at certain times of the season.
I don’t know half of them but I believe the Bakers Cup is one.
If anybody wants a day out if it is nice and sunny, on the 30th of Aug. Bridgwater v Glastonbury or Midsomer Norton play the final of the Somerset Major Cup 20/20 starting at 1pm.
The Bridgwater 2nd’s take on Keynsham in the final of the Somerset 2nd XI Cup 20/20 at 4pm.
I don’t know half of them but I believe the Bakers Cup is one.
If anybody wants a day out if it is nice and sunny, on the 30th of Aug. Bridgwater v Glastonbury or Midsomer Norton play the final of the Somerset Major Cup 20/20 starting at 1pm.
The Bridgwater 2nd’s take on Keynsham in the final of the Somerset 2nd XI Cup 20/20 at 4pm.
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 08/08/2009 03:54
A drunk in a dress?
It wasn't a kilt was it?
It wasn't a kilt was it?
Re: Notts...now or never
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 08/08/2009 11:36
Thank you Mr Driver
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 11:47
A class apart - and testimony to his commitment to Somerset. Congratulations to Marcus.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 12:29
Indeed. Congratulations to Marcus.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 14:02
I think the the disjointed fixture list has distorted what a good performance this is.
The preview on one web-sitre berated the fact this was very late in the season for the first man to get to 1000.
But given the fact that this is actually the "first innings of the second half" of our cc season this looks perfectly acceptable.
And the fact that JL is approaching 600 is also better than some have suggested.
The preview on one web-sitre berated the fact this was very late in the season for the first man to get to 1000.
But given the fact that this is actually the "first innings of the second half" of our cc season this looks perfectly acceptable.
And the fact that JL is approaching 600 is also better than some have suggested.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 15:14
Well done Marcus !
Grizzzly
Grizzzly
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: 0117 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 18:48
And has anyone noticed that Craig is also going along nicely with 688 championship runs
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 31/07/2009 19:07
Yes: I was just starting to think about preparing a 700 post when he got out.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 21:41
More runs again for Marcus, any real danger he won't end the season as leading county run scorer?
Ramps the only competition i guess
Ramps the only competition i guess
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 03/08/2009 21:44
Di Venuto (on those dodgy pitches!? van Jaarsveld? Hildreth?
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 10:11
Marcus has four tons - and has been out in the 90s four times!
In other words, with a bit more luck, he could have EIGHT tons already, which would have surely made him a lock for the most tons since the reduction of CC cricket.
In other words, with a bit more luck, he could have EIGHT tons already, which would have surely made him a lock for the most tons since the reduction of CC cricket.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 10:50
"Luck"?
You make your own luck in life, I feel AGod.
Still, no doubting that Marcus has so far had a very successful season with the bat.
You make your own luck in life, I feel AGod.
Still, no doubting that Marcus has so far had a very successful season with the bat.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/08/2009 23:29
1. Tres 1115 runs
2. Ramps 995 runs
3. DiVenuto 959 runs
Tres looking good at moment to be top LV runscorer.
What his PB, think i heard 1370ish the other day?
With 6 games left there is potential for another 12 innings so 1500+ hopefully
2. Ramps 995 runs
3. DiVenuto 959 runs
Tres looking good at moment to be top LV runscorer.
What his PB, think i heard 1370ish the other day?
With 6 games left there is potential for another 12 innings so 1500+ hopefully
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 10:00
As far as I am concerned, you can ignore Ramprakash because Div Two is not much of a standard.
Should Di Venuto somehow overhaul Tres, though, then many here will surely have to give him some major-league kudos, given that Durham are, supposedly, playing on some 'sporting,' pitches.
Should Di Venuto somehow overhaul Tres, though, then many here will surely have to give him some major-league kudos, given that Durham are, supposedly, playing on some 'sporting,' pitches.
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:23
I know what you're saying AG but you really can't just dismiss the second division.
Imagine if that applied to all sports,football included.
Sorry lad,we can't count your goals as they were all scored in the Coca Cola Championship.
Doesn't sound very fair does it?
Imagine if that applied to all sports,football included.
Sorry lad,we can't count your goals as they were all scored in the Coca Cola Championship.
Doesn't sound very fair does it?
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:27
Of course, it's not fair. And there's no doubt Ramps could score plenty in the first division.
But there's equally no doubt, in my mind, that first division runs are generally worth more than those taken off the current attacks of teams like Glamorgan or Leics.
It's the same principle as runs made vs the Windies in the 80s being worth more than those taken off India, for instance. Scoreboard (and scorebook) wise, it's a nonsense and paplably false. But, in the real world...
But there's equally no doubt, in my mind, that first division runs are generally worth more than those taken off the current attacks of teams like Glamorgan or Leics.
It's the same principle as runs made vs the Windies in the 80s being worth more than those taken off India, for instance. Scoreboard (and scorebook) wise, it's a nonsense and paplably false. But, in the real world...
Re: Banger first to 1000
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/08/2009 12:35
And sadly that's the world where most have to live.
Most he says,quite happily unscrewing the medication bottle..............
Most he says,quite happily unscrewing the medication bottle..............
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