Worcs things could happen!!
By Grockle et al
May 2 2015
Off we go for our first four day away game in Worcestershire. New Road beckons and with the pssiblity of spin being an option George Dockrell has been called into the squad to offer the duble spin alternative. No victories as usual in a Somerset CC1 tournament as of yet and the press, at least, are getting anxious already saying this is a 'crucial' game for the county. Not hairy yet but another defeat will not decrease the number of members of the squeeky bum brigade.
v Worcestershire CC1 @ NEW ROAD Sunday 3 May 2015
With two home losses under our belt, a number of middle order batting collapses and a seeming inability to bowl the opposition out twice, the New Road fixture is an opportunity for a change of venue and hopefully a change of fortunes.
The squad for this fixture shows no real anxiety as of yet;
Trescothick, Myburgh, Cooper, Hildreth, Allenby, Trego, Gregory, Rehman, Barrow, Dockrell, Overton(C) and Thomas
With the loss of Jamie Overton to an ankle injury plus the return of Myburgh which has sent Tom Abell back to his studies and Craig Overton after his Devon duties, the only question is whether Alfonso is fit. No Tim Greonewald who has not had a great start to this season after showing something more in the friendlies. However George Dockrell has been included in case the side want to go with the double spin option while putting more seam pressure on Allenby and Trego.
This would seem to make sense and so it would be expected that the top returns to itsfirst game line-up aas all but Allenby have started well with James being particularly good in the two games at home. However, Jim needs to get his act together as do both Pete and Alex as their contributions with the bat so far have been marginal at best. An excellent start by Trescothick and Hildreth in the Middlesex game was undermined by the middle order collapse and the sniff that gave the away side probably created the environment that produced a dispiriting defeat by Somerset with 7 balls to go and by 5 wickets.
The return of Craig Overton may add more teeth to the bowling attack but we are waiting for Alfonso to get back on the field to be honest. Whether this will be the game or not no-one is sure. Either the one day captain will sit this one out or our Irish spinner will do so. It is probably more likely that George will play as there seem to still be doubts about Mr Thomas. We need to get him back though because there are certainly doubts about Tim's championship pedigree in most camps. It is doubtful that it will open a door for Josh Davey just yet though his performance in the seconds is certainly good with both ball and bat. No sign of Adam Dibble pushing for a place so we need a fit Alf as soon as possible.
Johann returning after spending time with his wife who was close to giving birth (I'm not sure if the birth happened. If it did then congratualtions go to the Myburgh's from us all) will be hoping to buid on his debut ton in thee first game against Durham. The skipper and our number four Hildreth will want to put more runs oon their excellent scores in the second match. Tom Cooper is setting out his stall at number three and showing that he is a solid and well organised batsman who does not give his wicket away... more than can be presently said for the back end of our batting line-up.
The weather seems to be fine for the game and we all hope for more consistency through the order and in the bowling in order to put the Pears away and get our campaign moving in the right direction.
But it doesn't start well. Worcestershire win the toss and seem to know something about us because they put us in. They also seem right as Trescothick goes with oonly 11on the board after two boundaries but with only 23 balls of the game gone. Myburgh follows quite quickly and then in pretty quick succession and with little to bother the scorer we lose Cooper and then Allenby with less than 80 on the board. Barrow sticks around a bit with Hildreth but he also perishes with less than 140 up and it is presently left to Pete Trego to manufacture something with the only man who seems to be able to show some form - Mr Consistency - James Hildreth. It's presently 153 for 6 at the start of the 50th over and it hasn't gone all that well for Somerset up until now!! Hilda is the last man to go for 41 and the Pears are into the tail as Lewis Gregory joins Trigger.
Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 02/05/2015 19:57
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:11:47:45 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:11:47:45 by Grockle.
"Crucial" ?
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 15:42
After just two games, the Worcs. match is described as "crucial":
[www.westernmorningnews.co.uk]
Hope that Cove & Alf get through the game intact.
Grizzzly
[www.westernmorningnews.co.uk]
Hope that Cove & Alf get through the game intact.
Grizzzly
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 16:25
My God "Grocklitis" has hit the South West!!
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 16:45
We are all doomed - doomed I tell ya!
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 16:55
I predict the term 'relegation battle' will soon be heard on the devastated streets of Taunton and in the bars of the County Ground. Lord preserve us!!
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 17:10
I have already heard it said at the County Ground on Wednesday.
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 21:18
Yes well there are always some premature ejaculators
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 21:30
Dockrell in the squad instead of Leach. Wonder if that means anything or if GD is just along for the ride to keep him involved at first-team (squad) level but, in reality, we have no intention of playing him?
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/05/2015 21:44
I'm guessing he's a second spinner just in case Worcs have prepared a raging turner.
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 02/05/2015 05:09
Last time I saw a "raging Turner" was at the end of the 2005 season and it wasn't male!!
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/05/2015 07:49
Thought that as I typed it, Grockle 😁
Re: "Crucial" ?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02/05/2015 14:23
Yes, SP, with my question re: George, I was wondering if there's any significance at all in terms of him getting the nod over Leach - it has seemed for a while that JL had moved ahead of GD.
One reason you might have GD in a squad ahead of JL would be if you were anticipating a good amount of bounce in a track, with GD being much better suited to extracting bounce. I don't think that's New Road's calling-card, however.
One reason you might have GD in a squad ahead of JL would be if you were anticipating a good amount of bounce in a track, with GD being much better suited to extracting bounce. I don't think that's New Road's calling-card, however.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 02/05/2015 20:22
Somerset old boy Gareth Andrew has suffered a recurrence of a back problem, so misses tomorrow’s game against his former club.
Worcestershire choose from :-
Mitchell, Oliver, Fell, Gidman, Kervezee, Whiteley, Cox, Leach, Senanayake, Shantry, Morris, Barnard.
Worcestershire choose from :-
Mitchell, Oliver, Fell, Gidman, Kervezee, Whiteley, Cox, Leach, Senanayake, Shantry, Morris, Barnard.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 11:17
First wicket down as Tresco goes for 10 before the end of the 4th over.
The BBC Sports app is wonderful. It beeps to let you know the worst and then when you click on it for details it takes another 2 or 3 minutes to update the scorecard that it has told you has changed!!
The BBC Sports app is wonderful. It beeps to let you know the worst and then when you click on it for details it takes another 2 or 3 minutes to update the scorecard that it has told you has changed!!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 12:07
Myburgh gone for 11. 50 for 2
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 12:37
4 down.Allenby??? Don't get it!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 12:39
Oh Dear Oh Lore.
Cooper gone for 30 and Allenby gone for 7.
Hildreth and Barrow with it all to do on Day 1 or 4.
74 for 4 and well in the mire I would say.
Cooper gone for 30 and Allenby gone for 7.
Hildreth and Barrow with it all to do on Day 1 or 4.
74 for 4 and well in the mire I would say.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 13:34
Worcs things Do Happen!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 14:40
Yeah looks that way. Barrow gone without doing besides sticking with James... 132 and Pete holding the reputation of our middle order in his batting gloves at the moment. I can't say my confidence is particularly high at the moment
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: ChenorTom (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 14:45
Cricinfo tells me that the wicket-taker Mr Morris, went to Kings college, Taunton. I wonder how he ended up at Worcs?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 15:31
... being a Hereford lad might have something to do with it.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 20:26
Looks like it should be a good match this. We've recovered to 250, they're 35-2. Pitch probably not easy to bat on, and I certainly think our bowling attack looks a bit better this time round.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 21:44
Have to hope that Alf and Craig O are reasonably match sharp to support LG.
If not, could be another painful outcome to this match.
It was annoying that most of our batsmen made at least some sort of start (few single figure scores) but nobody went on.
Credit to LG and CO for helping to dig us out of the brown stuff.
If not, could be another painful outcome to this match.
It was annoying that most of our batsmen made at least some sort of start (few single figure scores) but nobody went on.
Credit to LG and CO for helping to dig us out of the brown stuff.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03/05/2015 23:01
Not thrilled to read that (according to Hildreth) there were some rash shots in our total.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 04:54
He also gave some hope as the pitch is doing a bit.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 06:17
A few early wickets and 250 could look a healthy score.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 09:47
Reading between the lines from yesterday's reports there seems to have been a huge sigh of relief when the score went into the 200's. A difficult pitch doesn't justify our performance on it (which is probably still under par) but at least it gives us a chance to redeem the situation to some extent today.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 11:14
One early wicket - I think. Cricinfo is having one of those days with all its games- none pf which seem rto be 11 a side.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 11:17
Quite right, Grockle.
I think it really does depend, heavily, on how match-sharp Craig O and Alf prove to be in support of Gregory.
It sounds very much as though this is a track on which an attritional approach is required with both bat and ball. We didn't really make the necessary adjustments with the bat, by the sounds of it, and must be patient with the ball, from what I've read and heard.
I think it really does depend, heavily, on how match-sharp Craig O and Alf prove to be in support of Gregory.
It sounds very much as though this is a track on which an attritional approach is required with both bat and ball. We didn't really make the necessary adjustments with the bat, by the sounds of it, and must be patient with the ball, from what I've read and heard.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 11:19
One would think that the wicket the has fallen (Mitchell's) could be quite an important one.
Only just switched on the commentary, though, so no idea who took the wicket for us.
Ah.. sounds like it was Alf that removed Mr Mitchell.
Only just switched on the commentary, though, so no idea who took the wicket for us.
Ah.. sounds like it was Alf that removed Mr Mitchell.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 12:07
They say that these balls tend to go pretty soft after about 35 overs.
I'm not sure that taking 3 wickets in the opening 35 overs represents sufficient penetration given a first-innings batting total of 250.
As the commentators keep reminding us, the Worcs' batting line-up is thin and shallow on paper, so there's always hope of a collapse but I really feel we need a breakthrough to keep heads from potentially dropping.
I'm not sure that taking 3 wickets in the opening 35 overs represents sufficient penetration given a first-innings batting total of 250.
As the commentators keep reminding us, the Worcs' batting line-up is thin and shallow on paper, so there's always hope of a collapse but I really feel we need a breakthrough to keep heads from potentially dropping.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 12:21
Timely yorker from Pete.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 12:58
Sounds like we bowled reasonably well in that session, keeping it tight and that they were a bit lucky.
But one would struggle to say that we are in the ascendancy at this stage of the match.
Will need a couple of swift breakthroughs shortly after lunch, I'd think, if we are to come out of the first innings with any sort of lead.
But one would struggle to say that we are in the ascendancy at this stage of the match.
Will need a couple of swift breakthroughs shortly after lunch, I'd think, if we are to come out of the first innings with any sort of lead.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 14:08
Commentary seems to have completely given up the ghost after lunch?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 14:11
They know and they're trying to fix it AG
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 14:17
Whilst I understood the desire to get an overseas player who could play the whole season, signing a spinner to do that role when the season includes loads of CC games in April and May always looked a bit debatable.
And here we are in this one with only 23 overs to go until the second new ball (which won't be taken by Abdur Rehman!) and yet he has bowled just the one token over before lunch.
So, unless their innings drags on much past the second new ball, we may find that Rehman bowls, say, only about 8 or 9 overs out of an innings of, say, 90 overs. That does not allow, even in theory, for much return from one's overseas player.
And here we are in this one with only 23 overs to go until the second new ball (which won't be taken by Abdur Rehman!) and yet he has bowled just the one token over before lunch.
So, unless their innings drags on much past the second new ball, we may find that Rehman bowls, say, only about 8 or 9 overs out of an innings of, say, 90 overs. That does not allow, even in theory, for much return from one's overseas player.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 14:30
Really hoping that Jim Allenby can pick up a wicket or two as that might help to give him a bit of confidence and, thus, kick-start his batting.
It sounded like he bowled rather well before lunch.
It sounded like he bowled rather well before lunch.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 14:39
This Ben Cox seems to be flaying us alive.
It would seem that we need shot of him very soon.
If not, we could be staring at a first-innings deficit and I would worry that we have neither the confidence, nor the resilience under pressure with the bat in hand to expect us to do a good job of batting from behind in our second dig.
It would seem that we need shot of him very soon.
If not, we could be staring at a first-innings deficit and I would worry that we have neither the confidence, nor the resilience under pressure with the bat in hand to expect us to do a good job of batting from behind in our second dig.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 15:03
Commentary back on. And Coverton has just been warned by the umpire for running on the pitch.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 15:04
Sounds like there may be some uneveness in the track which makes avoidance of any deficit on first innings even more important.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 16:39
Sounds like poor stuff with the second new ball and heads going down as Tresco goes very defensive in terms of field settings.
Really poor again.
Really poor again.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 16:48
Short. Wide. Rubbish.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: rodders (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 16:50
Good economical bowling figures but no real penetration as you would expect given the players involved. Have to agree with Grockle that without Jove firing on all cylinders we have a bunch of fast / medium workhorses who do not have much variety.
Rehman - as AGod has said - is starting to look like a not very bright signing !
Ah well - rain all day tomorrow forecast so might all be irrelevant anyway !
Rehman - as AGod has said - is starting to look like a not very bright signing !
Ah well - rain all day tomorrow forecast so might all be irrelevant anyway !
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 16:53
Not me Rodders.
Though after keeping them in check for a good part of the day it's getting away from us now.
Though after keeping them in check for a good part of the day it's getting away from us now.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 17:01
Rodders -most CC1 teams have no bowler of Jamie Overton's pace in their line-ups most of the time.
I'm not personally convinced that a lack of variety thing is a good enough reason for opponents doing so well against us.
Rather I simply think we are neither batting nor bowling well enough to do anything other than be bottom of the table (which is where we are).
Mr Maynard has an awful lot of work to do, very quickly, following a most inauspicious start to his reign.
We signed Maynard, presumably, on the basis of his success in SA and elsewhere outside the UK. That was much the same basis on which we signed Nosworthy.
Perhaps we would have been better off going with somebody that had enjoyed some success in a DoC type role in English domestic cricket? Maynard enjoyed no conspicuous success in Wales.
I'm not personally convinced that a lack of variety thing is a good enough reason for opponents doing so well against us.
Rather I simply think we are neither batting nor bowling well enough to do anything other than be bottom of the table (which is where we are).
Mr Maynard has an awful lot of work to do, very quickly, following a most inauspicious start to his reign.
We signed Maynard, presumably, on the basis of his success in SA and elsewhere outside the UK. That was much the same basis on which we signed Nosworthy.
Perhaps we would have been better off going with somebody that had enjoyed some success in a DoC type role in English domestic cricket? Maynard enjoyed no conspicuous success in Wales.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 17:25
Only the second century of Cox's career. He seemed to dominate our struggling attack from very early on his innings.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 17:42
Worcs might yet be cheated, by the weather, of a win that their performance - thus far - seems to have merited.
But from our point of view, even if the weather allows us to escape, it will clearly be yet another blow to morale to have been outplayed by the relegation favourites.
But from our point of view, even if the weather allows us to escape, it will clearly be yet another blow to morale to have been outplayed by the relegation favourites.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 18:19
There it is.....
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 18:27
At least we got the bonus points.
Apparently the New Road groundsman expects awful weather tomorrow.
Apparently the New Road groundsman expects awful weather tomorrow.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 18:37
And they didn't get all theirs.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 18:38
My God don't say we are going to come out of this on top!!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: rodders (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 18:48
Quote:AGod
Rodders -most CC1 teams have no bowler of Jamie Overton's pace in their line-ups most of the time.
I'm not personally convinced that a lack of variety thing is a good enough reason for opponents doing so well against us.
Rather I simply think we are neither batting nor bowling well enough to do anything other than be bottom of the table (which is where we are).
Mr Maynard has an awful lot of work to do, very quickly, following a most inauspicious start to his reign.
We signed Maynard, presumably, on the basis of his success in SA and elsewhere outside the UK. That was much the same basis on which we signed Nosworthy.
Perhaps we would have been better off going with somebody that had enjoyed some success in a DoC type role in English domestic cricket? Maynard enjoyed no conspicuous success in Wales.
Agree with every word of that but when I say similar I get pilloried - cue...............!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 19:47
I have to say that the New Zealand game might come at the perfect time because the guys need time to regroup and try and find some form and confidence and, frankly, we should possibly try one or two others in the first XI for that game.
I'd rest Trescothick and Hildreth and give the likes of Davey and Regan a game. It sounds like Craig Overton needs the bowling, so he should play. Might be a chance to give TG another run out to see if he can finally meet with some Taunton success and gain some confidence.
Did anybody ever hear anything about the outcome of Jamie Overton's MRI?
If he's fit then Mr Dibble could do with an outing vs NZ too.
I'd rest Trescothick and Hildreth and give the likes of Davey and Regan a game. It sounds like Craig Overton needs the bowling, so he should play. Might be a chance to give TG another run out to see if he can finally meet with some Taunton success and gain some confidence.
Did anybody ever hear anything about the outcome of Jamie Overton's MRI?
If he's fit then Mr Dibble could do with an outing vs NZ too.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 20:09
Glad to see that Mr Maynard is not hiding behind any "the pitch flattened out," type nonsense in his comments on the official site.
It was pretty obvious that we did not bowl at all well with the second new ball.
It's also fairly obvious that, as seemed likely at the time, a total of 250 reflected an inadequate batting effort by us.
It was pretty obvious that we did not bowl at all well with the second new ball.
It's also fairly obvious that, as seemed likely at the time, a total of 250 reflected an inadequate batting effort by us.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 20:18
It is certainly from hereon in going to take a massive shift in performances before we can even think of remaining in Division 1 in 2016.
We have been poorly led on the field for some years, and I do not as yet have a great deal of confidence in Matthew Maynard being the right personality to turn things around.
We only play 16 CC matches, and are now well into the third. It is said that winning can become a habit - well so can losing.
It is not a 'sack the manager mentality', but I have observed MM at close quarters so far this year, and I sense that he does not possess a lot of 'get up and go' about him, being too content to let things drift and hope for the best.
James Hildreth was quoted in a National newspaper today as saying: -
“All in all, we’ll take 250. It could be enough to work with. You always aim for 400 and maximum batting points but sometimes you have to adjust according to the wicket.
“Tomorrow could be a bit boring. We’ll be bowling in the channels and not trying to do too much. Wickets will come.”
Well they did eventually come, but at a cost!
If this is indicative of the mindset that the team are in, then it is no wonder they are struggling.
We have been poorly led on the field for some years, and I do not as yet have a great deal of confidence in Matthew Maynard being the right personality to turn things around.
We only play 16 CC matches, and are now well into the third. It is said that winning can become a habit - well so can losing.
It is not a 'sack the manager mentality', but I have observed MM at close quarters so far this year, and I sense that he does not possess a lot of 'get up and go' about him, being too content to let things drift and hope for the best.
James Hildreth was quoted in a National newspaper today as saying: -
“All in all, we’ll take 250. It could be enough to work with. You always aim for 400 and maximum batting points but sometimes you have to adjust according to the wicket.
“Tomorrow could be a bit boring. We’ll be bowling in the channels and not trying to do too much. Wickets will come.”
Well they did eventually come, but at a cost!
If this is indicative of the mindset that the team are in, then it is no wonder they are struggling.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 20:41
Some of your statements are matters of opinion rather than hardened fact CP.
Your opinion of MT as a captain is well known but all the people who criticise him struggle to provide a viable alternative from the squad in front of them - and I read very little over the winter about the captain's we should have been after to bring in to replace him.
I'm not sure having the opposition at 19 for 2 was a case of the wickets 'coming eventually'. Even at 5 for 135 most people would have suggested that JH's assessment of the night before was pretty much on the ball. It's what happened after the second new ball that should be discussed - something went very wrong and you seem correct in supporting MM in identifying that.
I have to say I am stunned that you can get such an assessment of the new DoC from observing him at 2 home games I am assuming. Was this at close quarters? How does someone show you he hasn't got 'get up and go' and is willing to let things slide? Were you in his presence for a considerable time? Was it in his mannerisms? Did he just not 'get up and go'?
Your opinion of MT as a captain is well known but all the people who criticise him struggle to provide a viable alternative from the squad in front of them - and I read very little over the winter about the captain's we should have been after to bring in to replace him.
I'm not sure having the opposition at 19 for 2 was a case of the wickets 'coming eventually'. Even at 5 for 135 most people would have suggested that JH's assessment of the night before was pretty much on the ball. It's what happened after the second new ball that should be discussed - something went very wrong and you seem correct in supporting MM in identifying that.
I have to say I am stunned that you can get such an assessment of the new DoC from observing him at 2 home games I am assuming. Was this at close quarters? How does someone show you he hasn't got 'get up and go' and is willing to let things slide? Were you in his presence for a considerable time? Was it in his mannerisms? Did he just not 'get up and go'?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 20:51
I have not "supported Matthew Maynard in identifying anything".
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 21:02
Oh dear! I thought you wrote that you were happy that he didn't hide behind usual platitudes and accepted the issue of poor use of the second new ball. That seemed to be the gist to me..
Perish the thought I might suggest that that was a positive statement about the man who is going to be controlling Somerset cricket for at least the next year!! You have got it bad this season haven't you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:04:21:05:32 by Grockle.
Perish the thought I might suggest that that was a positive statement about the man who is going to be controlling Somerset cricket for at least the next year!! You have got it bad this season haven't you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:04:21:05:32 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 22:27
2 very pleasant days just spent at New Road.
Very pleased to get 2 full days in, lovely ground, very good crowds, today especially.
Lovely ground, nicest county ground outside Taunton for me.
As for the cricket, it is just same old again I'm afraid.
We looked quite good in parts both days, but sloppy batting and a very very poor session today with the ball has cost us.
I don't think for a minute we are a bad team, and no way for me we will end in bottom 2 but we just have momentum, but the wrong kind!
Jamie is a huge huge miss, our attack is solid, but its all right arm medium, medium fast at best. No lack of effort but when things go quiet we just don't seem to have a way of breaking partnerships.
Rehman a bit of a worry, I wont criticise a spinner for not running through teams in April/May but seems very flat so far, not getting anything to happen at all.
Not sure how we change things, signing players mid season of any quality is just pie in the sky, lets forget that.
We have seen Tim G this year and do we expect Dibble to be any better than we have seen? We have no batting cover at all other than Tom, who I would like to see given a run, but not fair to expect him to be our saviour on back of only 3 or 4 first class games thus far.
I hear lots of criticism of Tres captaincy and tactics but a lot of it is a management decision. They have pre thought out plans in place when they go out there. The bowlers who open each session are decided in the changing room. The fields generally we know what they would be, I accept it is then Tres's job to react during sessions.
If Lewis, Alfie etc take 5 wickets Tres doesn't deserve praise, but equally if they bowl long hops and leg side rubbish that isn't his fault either.
A captain is only as good as his attack on the whole, and so far we have had too many collective bad hours or sessions where we have let the game drift or not had that spark to make something happen.
This game is still alive but without much rain we have to bat for at least 4 sessions I'd think to even make this safe, let alone put them under any pressure.
Maybe a lucky rainy saved draw will be the bit of luck that maybe gives us a kick to pick up next time out at Trent Bridge.
PS - Huge Somerset following at New Road past few days, saw loads of Taunton faces, several hundred at least. Bit worried about Tractor, was sat down both days and very quiet, maybe that was the issue, lacking enough vocal support!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:04:22:48:23 by wsm fan.
Very pleased to get 2 full days in, lovely ground, very good crowds, today especially.
Lovely ground, nicest county ground outside Taunton for me.
As for the cricket, it is just same old again I'm afraid.
We looked quite good in parts both days, but sloppy batting and a very very poor session today with the ball has cost us.
I don't think for a minute we are a bad team, and no way for me we will end in bottom 2 but we just have momentum, but the wrong kind!
Jamie is a huge huge miss, our attack is solid, but its all right arm medium, medium fast at best. No lack of effort but when things go quiet we just don't seem to have a way of breaking partnerships.
Rehman a bit of a worry, I wont criticise a spinner for not running through teams in April/May but seems very flat so far, not getting anything to happen at all.
Not sure how we change things, signing players mid season of any quality is just pie in the sky, lets forget that.
We have seen Tim G this year and do we expect Dibble to be any better than we have seen? We have no batting cover at all other than Tom, who I would like to see given a run, but not fair to expect him to be our saviour on back of only 3 or 4 first class games thus far.
I hear lots of criticism of Tres captaincy and tactics but a lot of it is a management decision. They have pre thought out plans in place when they go out there. The bowlers who open each session are decided in the changing room. The fields generally we know what they would be, I accept it is then Tres's job to react during sessions.
If Lewis, Alfie etc take 5 wickets Tres doesn't deserve praise, but equally if they bowl long hops and leg side rubbish that isn't his fault either.
A captain is only as good as his attack on the whole, and so far we have had too many collective bad hours or sessions where we have let the game drift or not had that spark to make something happen.
This game is still alive but without much rain we have to bat for at least 4 sessions I'd think to even make this safe, let alone put them under any pressure.
Maybe a lucky rainy saved draw will be the bit of luck that maybe gives us a kick to pick up next time out at Trent Bridge.
PS - Huge Somerset following at New Road past few days, saw loads of Taunton faces, several hundred at least. Bit worried about Tractor, was sat down both days and very quiet, maybe that was the issue, lacking enough vocal support!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:04:22:48:23 by wsm fan.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 22:55
Grockle, I think you're mixing up comments from AG and CP.
Rodders: AG does come on here on good and bad days, and says good things about the team / club / management when warranted - he doesn't just show up when things are going badly and criticise. That's why his comments are treated more reasonably (sometimes 😉).
Rodders: AG does come on here on good and bad days, and says good things about the team / club / management when warranted - he doesn't just show up when things are going badly and criticise. That's why his comments are treated more reasonably (sometimes 😉).
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 22:56
"Oh dear! I thought you wrote that you were happy that he didn't hide behind usual platitudes and accepted the issue of poor use of the second new ball. That seemed to be the gist to me."
Thinking can be a dangerous occupation sometimes.
Thinking can be a dangerous occupation sometimes.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 23:28
WSM - I do not know whether the players would gain any succour should the rain play a big part in saving us in this match.
But I don't believe they'd gain any confidence from it if that happens, nor should they.
The worry is that cricket, IMO, is more of a confidence sport than almost any other.
That Middx defeat will have really hit the confidence level of the side in the field and today's very poor final session will surely have dented confidence even further.
The commentators were suggesting that SCCC were acting, in the field, as though they felt "all the world was against us," in terms of luck with edges, umpiring decisions etc etc
It's not a good sign, IMO, if the side is already thinking in those sort of terms.
But I don't believe they'd gain any confidence from it if that happens, nor should they.
The worry is that cricket, IMO, is more of a confidence sport than almost any other.
That Middx defeat will have really hit the confidence level of the side in the field and today's very poor final session will surely have dented confidence even further.
The commentators were suggesting that SCCC were acting, in the field, as though they felt "all the world was against us," in terms of luck with edges, umpiring decisions etc etc
It's not a good sign, IMO, if the side is already thinking in those sort of terms.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2015 23:40
Weather may not effect confidence but it could just be a turn in fortunes that helps us stop the rot.
Sure we could easily find various games in previous years where rain has stopped us having a chance to win so no problem if we are on the right side of that this time.
We did beat bat on numerous occasions today and one little nick at the right time could have changed the day, but it didn't and we are where we are.
If we get out of this by batting well, long and big to save it that could really give us the boost to get us going too.
Sure we could easily find various games in previous years where rain has stopped us having a chance to win so no problem if we are on the right side of that this time.
We did beat bat on numerous occasions today and one little nick at the right time could have changed the day, but it didn't and we are where we are.
If we get out of this by batting well, long and big to save it that could really give us the boost to get us going too.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 01:02
I have a feeling we need to improve in all departments else we've heading for the basement.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 03:47
On reflection, original post deleted.
As one of my teachers said years ago:
"The difference between a successful career and a mediocre one, is knowing when to keep quiet - at least five times a day" !
Knew I shoud have listened to him.......
Grizzzly
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:04:16:07 by Grizzzly.
As one of my teachers said years ago:
"The difference between a successful career and a mediocre one, is knowing when to keep quiet - at least five times a day" !
Knew I shoud have listened to him.......
Grizzzly
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:04:16:07 by Grizzzly.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 06:12
I'm down to about three I think Grizzz (well maybe four)
Don't think I mixed them up Shep but I have to agree with CP about how dangerous it is to think about these things.
It's obviously far safer sometimes to just go with what you believe you know rather than weighing any kind of argument and walking into that corridor of uncertainty where your views might be questioned by thinkers!! You could always wear a blindfold or blinkers of course to make it less scary and more comfortable.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:08:48:27 by Grockle.
Don't think I mixed them up Shep but I have to agree with CP about how dangerous it is to think about these things.
It's obviously far safer sometimes to just go with what you believe you know rather than weighing any kind of argument and walking into that corridor of uncertainty where your views might be questioned by thinkers!! You could always wear a blindfold or blinkers of course to make it less scary and more comfortable.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:08:48:27 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:04
I down for 0!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:05
And so it (2013 season redux) continues...
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:33
How often do Somerset not get rolled over in easy fashion with the bat when behind on first innings?
It is, surely, just another example of our almost complete lack of mental resilience under pressure. The batting version of the heads going down in the field when an opponent starts to climb into us.
Frankly, I wouldn’t be hugely surprised if we are the only team that Worcs beat all season (depending on how well Ajmal is able to bowl with his re-modelled action). But they would have REALLY fancied this one, I think, knowing how brittle our team (and its confidence) is.
And, indeed, until further notice EVERY CC1 team will be queuing up to play Somerset.
At the moment this looks like our worst team since the one that finished bottom of Div Two.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:11:35:27 by AGod.
It is, surely, just another example of our almost complete lack of mental resilience under pressure. The batting version of the heads going down in the field when an opponent starts to climb into us.
Frankly, I wouldn’t be hugely surprised if we are the only team that Worcs beat all season (depending on how well Ajmal is able to bowl with his re-modelled action). But they would have REALLY fancied this one, I think, knowing how brittle our team (and its confidence) is.
And, indeed, until further notice EVERY CC1 team will be queuing up to play Somerset.
At the moment this looks like our worst team since the one that finished bottom of Div Two.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:11:35:27 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:44
Wafting drives galore, by the sounds of it.
Good to hear that they seem to have the appetite for the battle. NOT.
"Irresponsible and unintelligent," according to the Beeb.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:11:44:46 by AGod.
Good to hear that they seem to have the appetite for the battle. NOT.
"Irresponsible and unintelligent," according to the Beeb.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:11:44:46 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:45
Anyone know if a certain Justin Langer is available?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:54
I was wondering about your favourite Australian, BJ!
The actual answer to your question though is no, I believe.
The actual answer to your question though is no, I believe.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:55
All I can say is this lot better not be given the day off to play golf tomorrow.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 11:58
We are obviously taking inspiration from Durham and proving that anything they can do we can do better
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:08
oh dear, still it might liven up a dull afternoon following the discussion on here.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:16
Daft from Trego too.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Following on (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:40
I'm a glass half full merchant as a rule. But I think we can rule out a glorious first championship win, there may even be a relegation dog fight to endure. My thought concerns the consequences of relegation, does anyone know the contract status of the young guns - Lewis and the Overtons in particular?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:43
I've just spent an hour rehearsing a little Bruno Mars ditty called 'Count on Me' and eventually had to leave to turn my phone down because of the almost constant alerts that Somerset had lost a wicket.
What the hell is going on in;
a) Worcestershire
b) the heads of Somerset batsmen
Anyone got a non naughty alternative for 'abject'?
It's threatening to rain in Oman. I doubt it's gonna save us at New Road and I don't personally think it should.
For once the pessimists seem to be right.... it's going to be a long old Championship season and the optimism is waning at Grockle Minarets.
What the hell is going on in;
a) Worcestershire
b) the heads of Somerset batsmen
Anyone got a non naughty alternative for 'abject'?
It's threatening to rain in Oman. I doubt it's gonna save us at New Road and I don't personally think it should.
For once the pessimists seem to be right.... it's going to be a long old Championship season and the optimism is waning at Grockle Minarets.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:43
To be honest, Following On, does it really matter? By this, I mean that in this day and age if a player wants to leave, their employer almost always consents - e.g. Compton and Allenby this off-season.
If we go down then LG would almost certainly be in the sights of Div One counties. Whether the players would want to "stay loyal," and play in Div Two would be the determining factor in whether or not they'd stay, IMO, not their contract status.
If we go down then LG would almost certainly be in the sights of Div One counties. Whether the players would want to "stay loyal," and play in Div Two would be the determining factor in whether or not they'd stay, IMO, not their contract status.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:46
Well, Grockle, I don't know if you have the commentary, but as I'm sure the official site will not hesitate to tell us, conditions have heavily favoured the ball this morning and Morris has bowled really well.
BUT.... Cooper, Allenby and Barrow all reportedly played lavish drives whilst in single figures and Pete was out giving Morris the charge.
So it's fair to say that, IMO, there has been a conspicuous lack of mental effort by Somerset today. It has sounded as though "the pessimists," were the ones with bat in hand. In fact, so pessimistic were they, that they didn't really think it was worth trying to block out the new ball today - not when they could have a hooray henry at it instead.
BUT.... Cooper, Allenby and Barrow all reportedly played lavish drives whilst in single figures and Pete was out giving Morris the charge.
So it's fair to say that, IMO, there has been a conspicuous lack of mental effort by Somerset today. It has sounded as though "the pessimists," were the ones with bat in hand. In fact, so pessimistic were they, that they didn't really think it was worth trying to block out the new ball today - not when they could have a hooray henry at it instead.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: stevecav (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:48
OMG, I have just seen this morning's score. Just when I was thinking we could still be in the game if we made 350 second dig. You guys who are close to the action, are we really as bad as the scoreboards and tables say we are? What is MM saying about it all?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:48
Seriously?
In the first week of May you are discussing the hypothetical problems of Gregory wanting to leave if Somerset are relegated in September 2015?
My optimism hasn't fallen that low yet and haven't you honestly got something more interesting to do? Seriously?
In the first week of May you are discussing the hypothetical problems of Gregory wanting to leave if Somerset are relegated in September 2015?
My optimism hasn't fallen that low yet and haven't you honestly got something more interesting to do? Seriously?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:50
If your comment was addressed to me, Grockle, I was responding to a post from Following On, about the implications of relegation viz Gregory and Overtons x 2.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 12:57
Yeah I know...seriously?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: rambling sid (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:19
This is an absolute fiasco. What on earth are they playing at. The club regularly makes a massive profit every year and does nothing with it. We only seem to have one batsman, thank goodness for Hildreth. The prospects of us staying in Div 1 now seem remote, never mind the ludicrous possibility of us ever winning the championship. It doesn't look as though we're going to need this upgraded ground. If they don't buck their ideas up we'll be getting even smaller crowds than Glos'shire
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: ChenorTom (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:25
Didn't Durham lose their first three last season? I have no doubt this can be turned around. It's not the losses that hurt even though we lost the first 2 despite starting well in both. Gregory, Thomas and COverton WILL take wickets this season. But there does need to be a reaction from the players. Especially the batting. Cooper, Allenby and Barrow in particular. NO team can carry 50% of their top 6.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:27
And before anyone starts on about "little old Somerset," and "We've done so well to be in Div One for the past 7 years," I'd remind folks that in most years attendees at the AGM have been informed that SCCC are one of the "top three or four," wage bills in the country.
So Somerset should NOT be viewed as some sort of country bumpkin underdog up against the financial might of powerhouse Test counties, IMO.
So Somerset should NOT be viewed as some sort of country bumpkin underdog up against the financial might of powerhouse Test counties, IMO.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:33
And that also reminds us that these batsmen are paid well for their services and should be responding in kind on the field.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:40
and we've now got the so called stronger counties coming up, Notts, Yorkshire etc. Happy Days!!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:49
Notts are, IMO, a bit short on bowling penetration, but one fears that the sight of the SCCC batting will fix whatever has been ailing the Notts attack.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: geordie moonraker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:54
I think the operative words from GGG are "so called". I still have a top 3 finish in my sights.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 13:57
And I am sure you are fully capable of such a finish, GM.
Somerset, on the other hand...
Somerset, on the other hand...
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 14:03
My dear friend Old Frazer was adamant during the first game of the season v. Durham, that Somerset would be relegated at the end of this season.
I was not quite so pessimistic until now!
We have neither a well - balanced nor strong enough squad of players to compete consistently at this level. IMO we are lacking in leadership and management skills, but even I did not imagine such a poor start to the season as we have witnessed.
I do not care who at the club says what, or who claims whatsoever. The results are there for all to see.
As I have said previously, a team can get into a cycle of losing, but I am not sure who is going to lead us out of this trough of losing at the moment.
It is far worse than just poor.
Please hurry up and put us out of our misery, Worcestershire.
I was not quite so pessimistic until now!
We have neither a well - balanced nor strong enough squad of players to compete consistently at this level. IMO we are lacking in leadership and management skills, but even I did not imagine such a poor start to the season as we have witnessed.
I do not care who at the club says what, or who claims whatsoever. The results are there for all to see.
As I have said previously, a team can get into a cycle of losing, but I am not sure who is going to lead us out of this trough of losing at the moment.
It is far worse than just poor.
Please hurry up and put us out of our misery, Worcestershire.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 14:29
Talk on the Beeb this morning that Mr Maynard is “hugely popular,” with the Somerset players and some comments to the effect of what a nice guy he is.
In terms of popularity, one suspects that this is in stark contrast to Mr Nosworthy’s standing with the players.
However, there is also such a thing as being a bit too beloved by one’s players/ a bit too close to them.
Mr Maynard is faced with the task of trying to imbue this side with some steel and some focus. In order to do this, he may well need to say some things/take some actions that may tend to reduce his popularity and one hopes that these are things that he will have no compunction about doing.
In terms of popularity, one suspects that this is in stark contrast to Mr Nosworthy’s standing with the players.
However, there is also such a thing as being a bit too beloved by one’s players/ a bit too close to them.
Mr Maynard is faced with the task of trying to imbue this side with some steel and some focus. In order to do this, he may well need to say some things/take some actions that may tend to reduce his popularity and one hopes that these are things that he will have no compunction about doing.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 14:49
CP - So what do you see happening to fix the issues with the squad, leadership and management? Do your misgivings also apply to the non CC1 fixtures, am I likely to be watching defeat after defeat from now until September in all competitions.
If this is the case we are going to be reading your mantra many times
Do you have any faith in the players / Staff being able to turn it around? I can't imagine that it's possible to make wholesale changes or sackings (thankfully it's not football ) so we have to go with what has been put together for the season.
If this is the case we are going to be reading your mantra many times
Do you have any faith in the players / Staff being able to turn it around? I can't imagine that it's possible to make wholesale changes or sackings (thankfully it's not football ) so we have to go with what has been put together for the season.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 14:55
I would suggest that, in theory, both Cooper and Allenby might be more likely to prosper in short form cricket. Plus we have extra players joining for that, whose confidence will not have been eroded by the CC1 stuff.
One would think that we probably could not be worse than we were in home games in short form cricket last season.
One would think that we probably could not be worse than we were in home games in short form cricket last season.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:17
So in theory that's positive but then again not overly
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:25
Worcs things DID happen.
What an awful result with almost no positive aspects. Usually there is something you can say can be built on but please someone show it me in this game.
There are a number of fundamental aspects that need sorting and the NZ game needs to be used to work on some of them.
What an awful result with almost no positive aspects. Usually there is something you can say can be built on but please someone show it me in this game.
There are a number of fundamental aspects that need sorting and the NZ game needs to be used to work on some of them.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:36
This was what I wrote (then deleted, having thought better of it) last night. Unfortunately, today's events highlight the problem further:
It's unlikely to be popular with some posters, and it may be early in the season, but I retain the view (from the handful of games I have seen over the last three years, and the multiple sourced reports of all those that I haven't attended), that the Captaincy IS the main issue facing us.
It's not a case of what is planned BEFORE the session/game that is the problem, it is how the Captain & team react, WHEN things don't go to plan (as happens all too often).
It's hardly an uncommon theme to read about poor body language, lack of 'fire in the belly' & 'heads going down in the field' etc. etc.. This despite the predictable positive noises made before the start of every season, after the inevitable winter 'bonding sessions' etc..
I'm sorry, but the skipper's job is to get the BEST out of his players, relative to their ability. Across the years, Marcus simply hasn't/doesn't do this, however good a bloke he is & however often he continues to defy age with his batting.
I retain the view that Marcus should have stepped down three years ago mid-season & absolutely nothing that has happened since that time has encouraged me to change my mind.
What I think of course counts for 'nowt.
However, the elephant in the room will have to be discussed some time by those in charge. Otherwise, the mess on the floor will continue to get even more difficult to clear up.
Lastly, I also retain the view that we could justifiably offer the Captaincy to either James or Trigger, neither of whom would let us down i.m.h.o..
Or do we just watch another season go down the plug hole ?
Grizzzly
It's unlikely to be popular with some posters, and it may be early in the season, but I retain the view (from the handful of games I have seen over the last three years, and the multiple sourced reports of all those that I haven't attended), that the Captaincy IS the main issue facing us.
It's not a case of what is planned BEFORE the session/game that is the problem, it is how the Captain & team react, WHEN things don't go to plan (as happens all too often).
It's hardly an uncommon theme to read about poor body language, lack of 'fire in the belly' & 'heads going down in the field' etc. etc.. This despite the predictable positive noises made before the start of every season, after the inevitable winter 'bonding sessions' etc..
I'm sorry, but the skipper's job is to get the BEST out of his players, relative to their ability. Across the years, Marcus simply hasn't/doesn't do this, however good a bloke he is & however often he continues to defy age with his batting.
I retain the view that Marcus should have stepped down three years ago mid-season & absolutely nothing that has happened since that time has encouraged me to change my mind.
What I think of course counts for 'nowt.
However, the elephant in the room will have to be discussed some time by those in charge. Otherwise, the mess on the floor will continue to get even more difficult to clear up.
Lastly, I also retain the view that we could justifiably offer the Captaincy to either James or Trigger, neither of whom would let us down i.m.h.o..
Or do we just watch another season go down the plug hole ?
Grizzzly
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:37
Quote:AGod
One would think that we probably could not be worse than we were in home games in short form cricket last season.
I do wish people wouldn't say things like that. Experience tells me that the one time things get worse, is when you have just said that they won't.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:39
Did anyone else notice form the commentary yesterday that when Marcus went off the field for a few minutes it was Allenby that seemed to be marshalling the troops?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 15:59
I do not want to be be negative, but I and other SCCC supporters have come away from this game feeling totally disappointed with the efforts of all the PLAYERS.We were outplayed in all aspects of the game.A lot of SCCC supporters pay good money to go to away matches and quite frankly we deserve to see a better performance and effort from the players.
This morning after a very brief appearance by Marcus in the nets, and then the usual Soccer warm up pre-match, we just disintegrated.
Cannot see myself how blame can be laid at this stage of the season to MM,he is using what on paper seems to be the our best squad, but certainly question marks must be put against all the players.
I imagine that the coach will take the opportunity of the NZ game to make some changes,
I.E.bring in Davey, Regan, Leach at least.
Lets hope the squad are not given tomorrow off to play Golf
This morning after a very brief appearance by Marcus in the nets, and then the usual Soccer warm up pre-match, we just disintegrated.
Cannot see myself how blame can be laid at this stage of the season to MM,he is using what on paper seems to be the our best squad, but certainly question marks must be put against all the players.
I imagine that the coach will take the opportunity of the NZ game to make some changes,
I.E.bring in Davey, Regan, Leach at least.
Lets hope the squad are not given tomorrow off to play Golf
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:03
Correct Bagpuss, that is how it appeared on the ground, but we have had no official confirmation to my knowledge.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:21
"Did anyone else notice form the commentary yesterday that when Marcus went off the field for a few minutes it was Allenby that seemed to be marshalling the troops?"
Yes - and the commentators suggested that Allenby immediately instituted a more attacking field which was, in turn, immediately reversed when Trescothick came back out.
Grizzly - my thought re: Tresco now is that the team really needs picking up with confidence at a low ebb and that a more naturally out-going leader *might* be more capable of picking the guys up e.g. Alf or Pete. It's all moot of course, because I cannot ever imagine Tresco going back to playing in the ranks, so he would not voluntarily stand down, IMO.
I don't pretend that either one of those guys would necessarily be any more "tactically astute," or "tactically flexible," than Tresco, but I just think a shot in the arm is needed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:16:24:11 by AGod.
Yes - and the commentators suggested that Allenby immediately instituted a more attacking field which was, in turn, immediately reversed when Trescothick came back out.
Grizzly - my thought re: Tresco now is that the team really needs picking up with confidence at a low ebb and that a more naturally out-going leader *might* be more capable of picking the guys up e.g. Alf or Pete. It's all moot of course, because I cannot ever imagine Tresco going back to playing in the ranks, so he would not voluntarily stand down, IMO.
I don't pretend that either one of those guys would necessarily be any more "tactically astute," or "tactically flexible," than Tresco, but I just think a shot in the arm is needed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:16:24:11 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:28
Firstly, my feelings go out to all those Somerset members and supporters who spent their time and good money to witness such a disappointing effort at Worcester. Thank you Roger Ivanhoe for your report.
Well, Nailsea Fizz, - “what do I see happening to fix the issues?” Unless Trescothick falls upon his sword and resigns – the answer to that is very little.
I personally dislike soccer, but I saw a banner being paraded by some fans of a club (the identity of whom I have forgotten) last weekend on television that read – “We don’t demand success, but we do demand effort.”
From reports of those who were on the ground at Worcester, it appears likely that Somerset members and supporters demand something similar.
Again, Nailsea Fizz, I have little or no interest in one – day cricket, so you will not be “reading my mantra many times” on that form of the game.
In fact, you do not have to read anything that I post on here; the choice is yours.
Thank you for your last posting, Grizzzly. What you think does count, and I for one agree with you wholeheartedly.
I am sorry, but there it is!
Well, Nailsea Fizz, - “what do I see happening to fix the issues?” Unless Trescothick falls upon his sword and resigns – the answer to that is very little.
I personally dislike soccer, but I saw a banner being paraded by some fans of a club (the identity of whom I have forgotten) last weekend on television that read – “We don’t demand success, but we do demand effort.”
From reports of those who were on the ground at Worcester, it appears likely that Somerset members and supporters demand something similar.
Again, Nailsea Fizz, I have little or no interest in one – day cricket, so you will not be “reading my mantra many times” on that form of the game.
In fact, you do not have to read anything that I post on here; the choice is yours.
Thank you for your last posting, Grizzzly. What you think does count, and I for one agree with you wholeheartedly.
I am sorry, but there it is!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:21
Tresco told the Bristol Post that he feels;
"A little bit shell-shocked."
"A little bit shell-shocked."
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:22
And the Captaining Messiah is(and I apologise for asking this for the nth time in the past few years whenever this subject is brought up but).....tantadadadadada!! WHO?
While I fully accept the captain has a morale role on the field and am not myself the greatest fan of Banger as a skipper. However, I am sorry but a lack of momentum may have something to do with onfield management while a lack of application and effort IS NOT the captain's responsibility. He may demand it but the employed professional cricketer in my county's colours MUST provide it.
These guys have said for years they are not going out there to underperform. The evidence suggests otherwise.
They all talk about the great camaraderie of the side and the professional nature of the organisation. Yet they walk onto the pitch and underperform.
I mourn the loss of David Houghton, I thought he was getting somewhere but these guys are, in some cases, 10 year men with loads of experience. Yet they go out onto the field and bat like schoolboys.
Is MM to blame or is the mentality that our players have ie. to expect to fail and go for the self-fulfilling prophecy when that looks like it might be the outcome?
I don't think the coach, the captain, the senior players, or the coaching team have ultimate responsibility for what is going on. It is a group responsibility based on the whole side's desire to get the right side of this. You would expect ego, self belief and desire to be better would be enough to drive a player to something above this.
I'm no longer sure that is the case with some players at Taunton. This drop in the side's belief in itself is not a new phenomenon. It has hit Somerset periodically since 2005. Smith reckoned he'd cracked it but it returned. Langer didn't make us a winning team he just made us harder to beat. Maybe if some of those trophies had come our way it would have changed but they didn't and may have compounded the problem.
Do the players respect MM and MT? As men with their records how could they not?
Can they turn this mentality around? Doubt it as neither of them were particular winners in the long run.
There are also no other real 'winners' in the rest of the squad to replace them.
The ONLY thing IMHO that can turn this around is the SQUAD itself and the only way that can happen is if they WIN consistently for a prolonged period. If not it is Catch 22 situation and no replacements will change anything in the short term.
Get them winning guys and then keep them winning. To start that off we need LUCK and a lot of it. Gonna be a loooong season gentlemen and ladies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:17:52:03 by Grockle.
While I fully accept the captain has a morale role on the field and am not myself the greatest fan of Banger as a skipper. However, I am sorry but a lack of momentum may have something to do with onfield management while a lack of application and effort IS NOT the captain's responsibility. He may demand it but the employed professional cricketer in my county's colours MUST provide it.
These guys have said for years they are not going out there to underperform. The evidence suggests otherwise.
They all talk about the great camaraderie of the side and the professional nature of the organisation. Yet they walk onto the pitch and underperform.
I mourn the loss of David Houghton, I thought he was getting somewhere but these guys are, in some cases, 10 year men with loads of experience. Yet they go out onto the field and bat like schoolboys.
Is MM to blame or is the mentality that our players have ie. to expect to fail and go for the self-fulfilling prophecy when that looks like it might be the outcome?
I don't think the coach, the captain, the senior players, or the coaching team have ultimate responsibility for what is going on. It is a group responsibility based on the whole side's desire to get the right side of this. You would expect ego, self belief and desire to be better would be enough to drive a player to something above this.
I'm no longer sure that is the case with some players at Taunton. This drop in the side's belief in itself is not a new phenomenon. It has hit Somerset periodically since 2005. Smith reckoned he'd cracked it but it returned. Langer didn't make us a winning team he just made us harder to beat. Maybe if some of those trophies had come our way it would have changed but they didn't and may have compounded the problem.
Do the players respect MM and MT? As men with their records how could they not?
Can they turn this mentality around? Doubt it as neither of them were particular winners in the long run.
There are also no other real 'winners' in the rest of the squad to replace them.
The ONLY thing IMHO that can turn this around is the SQUAD itself and the only way that can happen is if they WIN consistently for a prolonged period. If not it is Catch 22 situation and no replacements will change anything in the short term.
Get them winning guys and then keep them winning. To start that off we need LUCK and a lot of it. Gonna be a loooong season gentlemen and ladies.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:17:52:03 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:27
I doubt the players much respected DN, Grockle, and in terms of DoC, wasn't his record basically the same as MM's? i.e won things in SA and in one other place, but no track record of success in domestic cricket (did nada at Glamorgan, as I recall)
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:41
So your point is?
I had no real time for DN and it was very obvious very quickly that no one else did either but he isn't MM and Maynard has things he never had.
Still don't see what the point of posting that is? It was Maynard or Giles as far as I am aware and they went for the right one in my opinion for what it is worth
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:17:53:13 by Grockle.
I had no real time for DN and it was very obvious very quickly that no one else did either but he isn't MM and Maynard has things he never had.
Still don't see what the point of posting that is? It was Maynard or Giles as far as I am aware and they went for the right one in my opinion for what it is worth
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:05:17:53:13 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: WyvernRose (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 18:41
All I can say is I'm glad the weather forecast made me decide to cancel my day off and go to work instead.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 18:48
Hildreth does not want the captaincy, so that option can be taken off the table.
Yes Jim was definitely captaining when Tres left the field yesterday for several overs.
I am a huge Marcus supporter, I firmly believe a captain is only as good as the players at his disposal. I accept the morale, tactics, fields argument but if batters play stupid shots or bowlers bowl long hops and leg side rubbish there isn't much he can do?
However it is not working.
Since making obvious improvements to the personnel from the squad we have isn't really an option, and guessing Maynard isn't going anywhere, maybe the captain is the only thing we can change.
But we really are limited on obvious options, if it's not Hildy, we discount the young ones like Cove, Jove, Lewis, Abell, Barrow etc. We would be left with Alfie, Jim or Trego for me.
Personally none really excite me, no future in Alfie, Jim struggling for runs and any wickets at all, plus new which could be a plus or minus.
One thing is clear is if performances don't improve in the next 2 games Notts and Yorkies will also beat us and we'll be cur adrift massively by the end of May, worrying times.....
Yes Jim was definitely captaining when Tres left the field yesterday for several overs.
I am a huge Marcus supporter, I firmly believe a captain is only as good as the players at his disposal. I accept the morale, tactics, fields argument but if batters play stupid shots or bowlers bowl long hops and leg side rubbish there isn't much he can do?
However it is not working.
Since making obvious improvements to the personnel from the squad we have isn't really an option, and guessing Maynard isn't going anywhere, maybe the captain is the only thing we can change.
But we really are limited on obvious options, if it's not Hildy, we discount the young ones like Cove, Jove, Lewis, Abell, Barrow etc. We would be left with Alfie, Jim or Trego for me.
Personally none really excite me, no future in Alfie, Jim struggling for runs and any wickets at all, plus new which could be a plus or minus.
One thing is clear is if performances don't improve in the next 2 games Notts and Yorkies will also beat us and we'll be cur adrift massively by the end of May, worrying times.....
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 18:58
Although I'd love to offer alternative views WSM I have to agree that it is down to the professionals we have to get us out of this.
Been here before I think.
Been here before I think.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 20:44
CP - interesting that you mention that banner which I believe was from Newcastle United supporters who have been unhappy for a few years with an owner who although making money is not investing in the team.
When no extra money was forthcoming they protested for a change in manager which occurred in due course. However despite employing a local man steeped in club history and a change in captain the team are still not performing.
In the end it's up to the squad / team to show why they are paid handsomely and put in the required effort now being demanded by the supporters.
Some parallels I feel.
When no extra money was forthcoming they protested for a change in manager which occurred in due course. However despite employing a local man steeped in club history and a change in captain the team are still not performing.
In the end it's up to the squad / team to show why they are paid handsomely and put in the required effort now being demanded by the supporters.
Some parallels I feel.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 20:52
Seems that way to me at least Nailsea. The quick fix one stop shop solution certainly ain't gonna do it
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 20:58
Suck it up, learn from it and move on.
There's little else we can do.
There's little else we can do.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 21:25
Interested in your comment re Hildreth wsm.
Is that conjecture or based on something more than that ?
(I know there was discussion a couple of seasons back re this, but the circumstances of that situation were never entirely clear to me).
For me it is a motivational issue ON the pitch, not off it.
I agree the 'squad' have to perform, but they also need inspiration & leadership, (contrast e.g. Collingwood to Banger here) not unimaginative/unresponsive tactics, followed shortly by the inevitable stale platitudes at close of play ?
Plans, theories, paperwork, video's etc., all count for two thirds of the square root of beggar all if you can't deliver on the pitch, and it is surely the Captain's role to ensure that happens.
If/when Marcus does stand aside, or is asked to do so (really hope that doesn't happen, as it would be pretty sad), I agree there are few, if any, candidates in the team who deserve to get the job.
But, it is not about 'deserve'.
It is about who can step up to the plate & thrive on responsibility, (as Marcus did when he was first selected for England), which is why I think both James & Trigger are valid candidates.
Otherwise, the best we can seem to hope for is survival, and a perpetuation and acceptance of our 'self manufactured mediocrity'.
We are surely better than that ?
Grizzzly
Is that conjecture or based on something more than that ?
(I know there was discussion a couple of seasons back re this, but the circumstances of that situation were never entirely clear to me).
For me it is a motivational issue ON the pitch, not off it.
I agree the 'squad' have to perform, but they also need inspiration & leadership, (contrast e.g. Collingwood to Banger here) not unimaginative/unresponsive tactics, followed shortly by the inevitable stale platitudes at close of play ?
Plans, theories, paperwork, video's etc., all count for two thirds of the square root of beggar all if you can't deliver on the pitch, and it is surely the Captain's role to ensure that happens.
If/when Marcus does stand aside, or is asked to do so (really hope that doesn't happen, as it would be pretty sad), I agree there are few, if any, candidates in the team who deserve to get the job.
But, it is not about 'deserve'.
It is about who can step up to the plate & thrive on responsibility, (as Marcus did when he was first selected for England), which is why I think both James & Trigger are valid candidates.
Otherwise, the best we can seem to hope for is survival, and a perpetuation and acceptance of our 'self manufactured mediocrity'.
We are surely better than that ?
Grizzzly
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 22:15
DOC, Matt Maynard said; “Reflecting on the match, this was quite clearly a very very disappointing performance. There are no excuses and we need to improve dramatically in order to the get the season back on track. Our deficiencies were quite clear from my perspective and we shall be addressing those areas immediately. We know how much our performance matters to our Members and supporters – I can assure all of you that nobody is more disappointed than us and we will do our utmost to turn things round for the next LVCC match against Notts.”
Nice words but they sound pretty similar to those we heard after the Durham and after the Middlesex games.
As has been said though nothing really means anything other than an improved performance in 12 days time at Trent Bridge. Talk, meetings, training sessions etc mean nothing unless it translates into improved results in the next LVCC match
Nice words but they sound pretty similar to those we heard after the Durham and after the Middlesex games.
As has been said though nothing really means anything other than an improved performance in 12 days time at Trent Bridge. Talk, meetings, training sessions etc mean nothing unless it translates into improved results in the next LVCC match
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 01:51
Get Paul McKenna in as new DOC.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 03:43
At least no-one would take up smoking! Well I think his course on that works. They pay enough for it.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 08:07
Probably the only players who would be guaranteed a start at Notts are Tres,Hildy, Alf and Gregory
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: cricketharris (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 09:24
I do not understand why James Hildreth is considered by some to be a future captain. He seems to be a pleasant and decent bloke but he also appears to be quiet and introverted and not the sort of personality that we need at the helm on the field. If a change was made now, and I don't think it will be, then I see Thomas as the best candidate. Next year (in division 2?) we need a kick-a Australian. Well, that's what I think.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 09:49
Hildreth did well when he stood in as Captain, IMO.
However, I wouldn't see him as the leader to get us out of what is currently something of a mess and may yet become a much bigger mess, because of his apparently introverted nature.
I see Trescothick made some comment (re:improvement) along the lines of "it's about the unity of the team," or something like that.
Not sure if that's just empty talk, by which I mean something that was said because he had to say something or if it's a genuine reflection of Tres feeling that the team has not been as united as it might have been.
However, I wouldn't see him as the leader to get us out of what is currently something of a mess and may yet become a much bigger mess, because of his apparently introverted nature.
I see Trescothick made some comment (re:improvement) along the lines of "it's about the unity of the team," or something like that.
Not sure if that's just empty talk, by which I mean something that was said because he had to say something or if it's a genuine reflection of Tres feeling that the team has not been as united as it might have been.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 09:51
Sadly, Nellie c, unless Tom A is going to be picked for Trent Bridge, then ALL the batsmen are pretty much guaranteed to be trotted out again as there are no alternatives beyond (I think) first-year Academy players.
Then again, if any of the first year Academy players are thought of as even remotely ready to be reserves for the first team then maybe one or two of them should have a game vs NZ too.
Then again, if any of the first year Academy players are thought of as even remotely ready to be reserves for the first team then maybe one or two of them should have a game vs NZ too.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:05
Have to agree with the first part of your post CH.
AG James Regan for Barrow? Josh Davey for Jim Allenby if Trigger moves up one (Jims done little with bat or ball so what is the risk?) Myburgh for Allenby if Tom opens. Josh in for Trigger (who has also done little with bat or ball really).
So a few possible variations. Will they happen? Well past experience says NO.
AG James Regan for Barrow? Josh Davey for Jim Allenby if Trigger moves up one (Jims done little with bat or ball so what is the risk?) Myburgh for Allenby if Tom opens. Josh in for Trigger (who has also done little with bat or ball really).
So a few possible variations. Will they happen? Well past experience says NO.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:10
The mentality at Trent Bridge simply has to be “thou shalt not pass,” (with the bat).
When a team is in a rut, the first step to getting out of the rut is to “stem the bleeding.”
Trescothick said that he could not ever remember having lost 3 CC1 games on the bounce before. Even in our abject 2013 CC season that did not happen. So, this will be uncharted territory for our Captain.
The Trent Bridge pitch tends to one of two extremes... either it tends to be sticky and seam around (if it starts damp) or it tends to be a very flat track indeed. Obviously, depending on the weather there may or may not be swing to be had on the ground. I’ve seen several innings of Notts vs Somerset games at the ground in recent years and I’m not sure I can remember a time when I thought “this pitch has roughly the same amount in it for both bowler and batsman.”
I’ve seen a couple of innings at the start of games where it did plenty throughout the first innings (last year when only Tresco scored) and a few years ago (when only Chris Read scored for them). A third year that I was there, it did loads before lunch (with us batting) and very little after lunch (Hildreth and Kieswetter posting tons)
Outside of the first innings of matches, I’ve seen an awful lot of runs scored and a lot of bowling treated with contempt.
It would scarcely be a surprise if Notts deliberately leave plenty of grass on and water the pitch liberally in the hope that they win the toss and expectation that our flimsy looking batting line-up would not cope with those type of conditions. After all, Trescothick apart, we did not cope with those kind of conditions batting first last year so Notts would have no reason to expect this year’s batting line-up that is both weaker on paper, and short of confidence on grass, to do so.
This year, unlike last year, I don’t think Tresco should think too much about the weather. I think he should instead treat Trent Bridge as being like Taunton in that, if it’s going to do anything off the pitch, it will probably happen at the start of the game. So if we win the toss I think we should bowl unless the track is completely straw coloured.
When a team is in a rut, the first step to getting out of the rut is to “stem the bleeding.”
Trescothick said that he could not ever remember having lost 3 CC1 games on the bounce before. Even in our abject 2013 CC season that did not happen. So, this will be uncharted territory for our Captain.
The Trent Bridge pitch tends to one of two extremes... either it tends to be sticky and seam around (if it starts damp) or it tends to be a very flat track indeed. Obviously, depending on the weather there may or may not be swing to be had on the ground. I’ve seen several innings of Notts vs Somerset games at the ground in recent years and I’m not sure I can remember a time when I thought “this pitch has roughly the same amount in it for both bowler and batsman.”
I’ve seen a couple of innings at the start of games where it did plenty throughout the first innings (last year when only Tresco scored) and a few years ago (when only Chris Read scored for them). A third year that I was there, it did loads before lunch (with us batting) and very little after lunch (Hildreth and Kieswetter posting tons)
Outside of the first innings of matches, I’ve seen an awful lot of runs scored and a lot of bowling treated with contempt.
It would scarcely be a surprise if Notts deliberately leave plenty of grass on and water the pitch liberally in the hope that they win the toss and expectation that our flimsy looking batting line-up would not cope with those type of conditions. After all, Trescothick apart, we did not cope with those kind of conditions batting first last year so Notts would have no reason to expect this year’s batting line-up that is both weaker on paper, and short of confidence on grass, to do so.
This year, unlike last year, I don’t think Tresco should think too much about the weather. I think he should instead treat Trent Bridge as being like Taunton in that, if it’s going to do anything off the pitch, it will probably happen at the start of the game. So if we win the toss I think we should bowl unless the track is completely straw coloured.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:17
Last year he didn't think about the weather.
He chose to bat at the toss when everything about the conditions said 'bat' and then the weather changed on him in the space of half and hour (which it can do at Trent Bridge)
Somerset walked out onto an absolute killing ground for batsmen. We get that again and we will be murdered in our present form - no control over it whatsoever.
One thing he MUST do this year is look at the long term forecasts over a period of time and decide their level of confidence and consistency. The weather conditions decided the game in 2014. We'd lost it by about 4:30 on Day 1 and there was no coming back.
He chose to bat at the toss when everything about the conditions said 'bat' and then the weather changed on him in the space of half and hour (which it can do at Trent Bridge)
Somerset walked out onto an absolute killing ground for batsmen. We get that again and we will be murdered in our present form - no control over it whatsoever.
One thing he MUST do this year is look at the long term forecasts over a period of time and decide their level of confidence and consistency. The weather conditions decided the game in 2014. We'd lost it by about 4:30 on Day 1 and there was no coming back.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:26
He batted because when he looked up, at the toss, the weather was fine so he probably thought the ball wouldn't swing much AND (this is usually what Tresco says in such situations) because he would 'back us to see off any early life from the pitch.'
BUT, my point is that the track looked to me as though there would be stuff in the track first thing anyway, as there usually seems to be at Trent Bridge.
Even if the weather had stayed relatively fresh, I don't think it would have been a total flat-track before lunch. The difference, IMO, was that if the weather had stayed fresh, rather than becoming humid, batting would probably have been much easier after lunch. As you know, it didn't stay fresh, and batting looked only slightly easier in the second session.
IN our current state, I see no reason to "back us to see off early life from the pitch," this time and as the TB pitch tends to become very flat as the game wears on, I think we should go up there with a very strong presumption in favour of bowling first if we get the choice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:06:10:27:33 by AGod.
BUT, my point is that the track looked to me as though there would be stuff in the track first thing anyway, as there usually seems to be at Trent Bridge.
Even if the weather had stayed relatively fresh, I don't think it would have been a total flat-track before lunch. The difference, IMO, was that if the weather had stayed fresh, rather than becoming humid, batting would probably have been much easier after lunch. As you know, it didn't stay fresh, and batting looked only slightly easier in the second session.
IN our current state, I see no reason to "back us to see off early life from the pitch," this time and as the TB pitch tends to become very flat as the game wears on, I think we should go up there with a very strong presumption in favour of bowling first if we get the choice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:06:10:27:33 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:41
It has been said on here several times that James Hildreth is not interested in assuming the role of Somerset captain.
I thought that I read a couple of years ago that he would love to assume the stewardship of the club at some future date.
Has he publicly stated now that this is no longer the case; has anyone at the club made an official (or indeed private) statement to that effect, or has it emanated from the hacks in the Taunton Press Box?
Just curious.
I thought that I read a couple of years ago that he would love to assume the stewardship of the club at some future date.
Has he publicly stated now that this is no longer the case; has anyone at the club made an official (or indeed private) statement to that effect, or has it emanated from the hacks in the Taunton Press Box?
Just curious.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:51
Quote from an extract of yesterday’s play appearing in today’s ‘Daily Telegraph’ : -
“Trescothick admitted that his troubled team “can’t carry on” like this, after a third successive defeat. “I feel a little bit shell-shocked,” he said. “We haven’t performed anywhere near the level that we expect as a team for the three days.
“We have been slightly off the boil so we have got a little bit of soul-searching to do. You can’t carry on in that vein because it’s not good enough. There are areas for us in quite a few departments that we can improve on. Our challenge is to get it right by the next game we play.”
No Marcus, it is most definitely “not good enough.”
But my question directed at him in his parlance is – What part are you going to play in doing something to rectify it, mate?
“Trescothick admitted that his troubled team “can’t carry on” like this, after a third successive defeat. “I feel a little bit shell-shocked,” he said. “We haven’t performed anywhere near the level that we expect as a team for the three days.
“We have been slightly off the boil so we have got a little bit of soul-searching to do. You can’t carry on in that vein because it’s not good enough. There are areas for us in quite a few departments that we can improve on. Our challenge is to get it right by the next game we play.”
No Marcus, it is most definitely “not good enough.”
But my question directed at him in his parlance is – What part are you going to play in doing something to rectify it, mate?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:07
As somebody tweeted at him on Twitter:
"If this is slightly off the boil, I'd hate to see what completely off the boil looks like."
It might be that Marcus is the sort of steady "don't panic," guy that is needed for this situation, but it could just as easily be the case that he will be a bit too laid-back for the challenge ahead and fail to recognise the extent of the problems quickly enough.
"If this is slightly off the boil, I'd hate to see what completely off the boil looks like."
It might be that Marcus is the sort of steady "don't panic," guy that is needed for this situation, but it could just as easily be the case that he will be a bit too laid-back for the challenge ahead and fail to recognise the extent of the problems quickly enough.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:11
And I'll ask you one CP.
If the solution is 'rectified' what level of credit will you give to a man you've identified as the main reason for it mate?
It's cushy sitting here and discussing it as if we have the solution isn't it?
I'm personally glad I'm not dealing with an issue that was here before MT was captain and possibly will still be here after he has gone.
If the solution is 'rectified' what level of credit will you give to a man you've identified as the main reason for it mate?
It's cushy sitting here and discussing it as if we have the solution isn't it?
I'm personally glad I'm not dealing with an issue that was here before MT was captain and possibly will still be here after he has gone.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:20
I don't think that any of us actually have even "a solution," let alone "the solution."
That's what worries me more than anything - an utter lack of obvious remedies for what ails us. And that's just talking about the short-term issues in 2015, without commenting on any wider issues.
That's what worries me more than anything - an utter lack of obvious remedies for what ails us. And that's just talking about the short-term issues in 2015, without commenting on any wider issues.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:24
"If" it is rectified?
What is the long standing issue that will not go away?
What is the long standing issue that will not go away?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:31
Never having won the CC for one, CP!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 13:22
The level of confidence this squad has taken through a season for many a year CP.
Greame Smith said he had come in to deal with it in 2005.
The improvement in it was mentioned when Keith Parsons returned to the first team fold after the contractual issues he had in rejecting a one day only contract.
Rose talked about it on numerous occasions at local and central AGM's.
Sarge Hurry explained how they were going to go away and bond to develop it when he first returned.
Langer had a lot of trouble explaining it.
It isn't something that came with or was created by the Trescothick captaincy or will be sorted fully before he goes.
I for one shall however await with bated breath the credit you offer if a level of rectification takes place during this season.
Greame Smith said he had come in to deal with it in 2005.
The improvement in it was mentioned when Keith Parsons returned to the first team fold after the contractual issues he had in rejecting a one day only contract.
Rose talked about it on numerous occasions at local and central AGM's.
Sarge Hurry explained how they were going to go away and bond to develop it when he first returned.
Langer had a lot of trouble explaining it.
It isn't something that came with or was created by the Trescothick captaincy or will be sorted fully before he goes.
I for one shall however await with bated breath the credit you offer if a level of rectification takes place during this season.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 13:26
That isn't what happened in relation to the toss at Trent Bridge last year AG you possibly need to go back and read the information once again.
We were there and it was explained to you then exactly what happened. Your recollection seems have suffered from the time gap.
We were there and it was explained to you then exactly what happened. Your recollection seems have suffered from the time gap.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 13:42
You forgot to mention that they have had a Sports Psychologist on the payroll for a few seasons, Grockle, apparently to help the team in the aspect of which you say they are lacking.
And we all know that that has been of no noticeable benefit at all by means of results.
What do they try next?
And we all know that that has been of no noticeable benefit at all by means of results.
What do they try next?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:01
Somebody made the light-hearted suggestion of a hypnotist, but I've heard worse ideas..
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:05
I think that they are already asleep.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:10
Let's hope they are having pleasant dreams.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:25
Unlike the members and supporters then.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:28
McKenna has gone way past hypnotism. He's a "Neuro Linguistic Programmer" now coining it in as a speaker filling theatres across the world (he was here last year dealing with smoking).
I know about the life coaches and sports psychos CP they go back at least as far as 2002 when my ex-wife was one of them!
I'm not the only one saying it and I don't have a solution. Obviously you expect Marcus to have one as it all seems to be because of him and/or his responsibility
I know about the life coaches and sports psychos CP they go back at least as far as 2002 when my ex-wife was one of them!
I'm not the only one saying it and I don't have a solution. Obviously you expect Marcus to have one as it all seems to be because of him and/or his responsibility
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:50
I wasn't there so I'm not going to comment on individual performances in the Worcs. match but I will say, in spite of my incurable optimism steadfastly maintained for some 67 years, that I came home yesterday afternoon, fired up the computer to see how we were doing and felt more downcast than I have for many a year. The Worcs. attack consisted of two relative novices and a steady medium pacer.
A couple of questions. How do we know that Hildreth doesn't want the captaincy? He has captained the Lions and a few seasons back when MT was injured he was captain for a few matches with a bowling attack which consisted of the heroic Treeeeego and three schoolboys! My recollection is that while we didn't massacre the opposition we put in some stout performances under Hildreth's leadership (and the best captains aren't always the gung ho, up and at 'em type).
Second question. In recent seasons slow left armers Dockrell and Leach have both put in very good performances in APRIL! Why do we not persevere with our young spinners? If after a couple of seasons they don't make the grade we can look elsewhere but spinners need to learn their trade by bowling a lot of overs against good batsmen.
A couple of questions. How do we know that Hildreth doesn't want the captaincy? He has captained the Lions and a few seasons back when MT was injured he was captain for a few matches with a bowling attack which consisted of the heroic Treeeeego and three schoolboys! My recollection is that while we didn't massacre the opposition we put in some stout performances under Hildreth's leadership (and the best captains aren't always the gung ho, up and at 'em type).
Second question. In recent seasons slow left armers Dockrell and Leach have both put in very good performances in APRIL! Why do we not persevere with our young spinners? If after a couple of seasons they don't make the grade we can look elsewhere but spinners need to learn their trade by bowling a lot of overs against good batsmen.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 15:37
Only the hierarchy can answer that question Angell !! Ask them.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 15:49
We got all of what, about 10 overs, out of Rehman in the debacle at New Road?
I'd love to say that, had we batted properly, then Rehman would have bowled a lot of overs very effectively in the Worcs second dig but, thus far, it does not seem as though AR is particularly effective unless there is a lot of turn in the track.
On non-turning tracks, he's probably tighter than GD (but not necessarily tighter than JL).
Management, no doubt, went for AR because he was perceived as a potential match-winning bowler, but they do not necessarily seem to have factored in that he may only merit that description towards the end of the season.
Perhaps absolutely no decent batsmen were available for the first-half of the season but if any even half-decent overseas batsmen were available for the first part of the season then they may well have made more sense than Rehman. Presumably there was no reason why we could not have contracted AR for the latter part of the season, should we have so desired?
But they seem to have taken a policy decision that it would pay to have just one guy for the whole season, presumably to build continuity and so forth.
I'd love to say that, had we batted properly, then Rehman would have bowled a lot of overs very effectively in the Worcs second dig but, thus far, it does not seem as though AR is particularly effective unless there is a lot of turn in the track.
On non-turning tracks, he's probably tighter than GD (but not necessarily tighter than JL).
Management, no doubt, went for AR because he was perceived as a potential match-winning bowler, but they do not necessarily seem to have factored in that he may only merit that description towards the end of the season.
Perhaps absolutely no decent batsmen were available for the first-half of the season but if any even half-decent overseas batsmen were available for the first part of the season then they may well have made more sense than Rehman. Presumably there was no reason why we could not have contracted AR for the latter part of the season, should we have so desired?
But they seem to have taken a policy decision that it would pay to have just one guy for the whole season, presumably to build continuity and so forth.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 15:58
Hang on... weren't you saying the exact opposite about our purchases in the T20 a short while ago?
Don't blame the club totally for looking for an established spinner who took wickets. Give some of that credit to George's performances last season. You can certainly say they didn't possibly show enough faith in Jack but they did stay with GD longer than many here were happy with. Looking for something more promising was always going to be on the cards and getting someone for a long period who had done something not long before was always going to be tempting.
Again it seems really obvious in hindsight...but I don't remember portents of problems being talked about around the time of his signing... were there?
Don't blame the club totally for looking for an established spinner who took wickets. Give some of that credit to George's performances last season. You can certainly say they didn't possibly show enough faith in Jack but they did stay with GD longer than many here were happy with. Looking for something more promising was always going to be on the cards and getting someone for a long period who had done something not long before was always going to be tempting.
Again it seems really obvious in hindsight...but I don't remember portents of problems being talked about around the time of his signing... were there?
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:02
My point re: T20 was that I want to see our resources committed to the CC NOT the T20. Hence I'd have no problem with having more than one player contracted (over the course of a season) for the CC, whereas I consider contracting more players than we need for the T20 to be wasteful.
As for a "hindsight," thing, I certainly personally said at the time that I'd rather have an overseas batsman than Rehman because I thought we were short in batting. I think one or two others said likewise.
As for a "hindsight," thing, I certainly personally said at the time that I'd rather have an overseas batsman than Rehman because I thought we were short in batting. I think one or two others said likewise.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:09
But your criticism now is that Abdur is going to be ineffective at the start of the season...don't remember that being in the comments. It would certainly have backed up your batting argument... but...not there I believe. That's the hindsight aspect.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:13
So if I understand you AG, the club management is so lacking in cricketing experience, knowledge of the game and basic intelligence that they don't take into account the fact that Mr Rehman might not be as effective early on in the season as later when there may be a bit more turn in the wickets. I didn't realise they were so dim. When you stand for election next year you can count on my vote.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:17
Well, if they signed him to be a "match-winning," spinner then they should not, probably, have been expecting match-winning contributions at the start of the season should they, AF?
In which case, it is perfectly legitimate, is it not, to wonder if it's worth having him for the first part of the season as opposed to an overseas player that does something other than bowl spin?
I'm sure management knew he'd probably be more effective later on but, one assumes, that they hoped he'd take MORE wickets in early season than he has done so far, or would you not agree with that, AF?
As it is, unless people think that MT is deliberately out to sabotage us, then we have to assume that the fact that Rehman bowled only 10 or so overs in the Worcs first dig is reflective of the fact that MT felt that he was a relatively poor bet to take wickets compared to our seamers in that match.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:06:16:23:06 by AGod.
In which case, it is perfectly legitimate, is it not, to wonder if it's worth having him for the first part of the season as opposed to an overseas player that does something other than bowl spin?
I'm sure management knew he'd probably be more effective later on but, one assumes, that they hoped he'd take MORE wickets in early season than he has done so far, or would you not agree with that, AF?
As it is, unless people think that MT is deliberately out to sabotage us, then we have to assume that the fact that Rehman bowled only 10 or so overs in the Worcs first dig is reflective of the fact that MT felt that he was a relatively poor bet to take wickets compared to our seamers in that match.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:06:16:23:06 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:20
Well, yes, Grockle, I never said that I thought Rehman would not take wickets.
However, in preferring an overseas batsman (if one could be found) the fear that we’d be short of runs was explicit and the fear that Rehman would not take enough wickets to off-set the anticipated (by me) shortage of runs was implicit in that preference.
Now, if it’s a dry summer, then the balance of that calculation should shift as the summer moves along. Firstly, with most Counties not having a decent spinner, batting should be easier for our guys on drier surfaces that do little off the seam. Secondly, Rehman should come into his own as time wears on.
BUT.. the 64 million dollar questions, Grockle, are:
a) At what point, exactly, will this balance start to shift?
And
b) Will Somerset be in any sort of reasonable competitive position at this juncture?
It’s possible that we could bungle along at or near the bottom until, say, the second half of July, whereupon Rehman comes into his own and bowls us out of trouble.
But it’s also possible that Rehman doesn’t come into his own until the second half of August by which time – if the present level of team performances do not significantly improve before then – it may be too late for us to survive even if Rehman does come into his own.
Equally, it’s possible that we will have some huge turn around in form so that we’re actually mid-table or upper mid-table at the point where things start to turn (pun intended) for Rehman, in which case maybe he could be the difference between mounting a late CC run or not.
However, in preferring an overseas batsman (if one could be found) the fear that we’d be short of runs was explicit and the fear that Rehman would not take enough wickets to off-set the anticipated (by me) shortage of runs was implicit in that preference.
Now, if it’s a dry summer, then the balance of that calculation should shift as the summer moves along. Firstly, with most Counties not having a decent spinner, batting should be easier for our guys on drier surfaces that do little off the seam. Secondly, Rehman should come into his own as time wears on.
BUT.. the 64 million dollar questions, Grockle, are:
a) At what point, exactly, will this balance start to shift?
And
b) Will Somerset be in any sort of reasonable competitive position at this juncture?
It’s possible that we could bungle along at or near the bottom until, say, the second half of July, whereupon Rehman comes into his own and bowls us out of trouble.
But it’s also possible that Rehman doesn’t come into his own until the second half of August by which time – if the present level of team performances do not significantly improve before then – it may be too late for us to survive even if Rehman does come into his own.
Equally, it’s possible that we will have some huge turn around in form so that we’re actually mid-table or upper mid-table at the point where things start to turn (pun intended) for Rehman, in which case maybe he could be the difference between mounting a late CC run or not.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 16:54
AG, of course it is perfectly legitimate to wonder if we might have been better to have someone other than Mr. Rehman for the first part of the season and of course Management (and the rest of us) hoped that he would have taken more wickets than he has done. That was not the point. The point was your silly assertion that "they (the Management) do not necessarily seem to have factored in that he may only merit that description (as a potential match winning bowler) towards the end of the season". But there we go: I really must not rise to the bait.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 17:00
My point was that he'd presumably been signed as a 'match-winning bowler,' but that it may not have been realistic to expect him to fulfil that function at the start of the season.
I suspect that the idea was that AR might be the guy to "get us over the line," if we should find ourselves "there or thereabouts," towards the end of the season. But, unfortunately, we do not appear to have resourced ourselves in an adequate way to get ourselves into a position where we might be "there or thereabouts."
To be fair, one wonders if the choice of overseas player would have changed had they known about CK being unavailable, in addition to NC?
(The signing of Rehman pre-dated the news re: CK).
I suspect that the idea was that AR might be the guy to "get us over the line," if we should find ourselves "there or thereabouts," towards the end of the season. But, unfortunately, we do not appear to have resourced ourselves in an adequate way to get ourselves into a position where we might be "there or thereabouts."
To be fair, one wonders if the choice of overseas player would have changed had they known about CK being unavailable, in addition to NC?
(The signing of Rehman pre-dated the news re: CK).
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 18:46
I have been told Hildreth is not interested in the captaincy, take that as you wish, I have no reason to disbelieve what I've been told, and the clubs recent decisions seem to back it up.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 19:09
I remember us once signing a match winning batsman for the start of the season and he helped win us one match just before he left us.. There was no doubt he was such a man and we all applauded his signing....
I wonder what your analysis of Sanath was in hindsight? Was he a bad signing because he obviously should have been factored in for a late summer contract.... or would you have bitten the offeree's arm off at the elbow I wonder?
You makes your decision and you takes your chance and you suffer the critics who are experts after the fact
I wonder what your analysis of Sanath was in hindsight? Was he a bad signing because he obviously should have been factored in for a late summer contract.... or would you have bitten the offeree's arm off at the elbow I wonder?
You makes your decision and you takes your chance and you suffer the critics who are experts after the fact
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 05:10
If that's correct, its certainly disappointing wsm.
What next ?
We'll be having to call Mystic Meg at this rate.
Grizzzly
What next ?
We'll be having to call Mystic Meg at this rate.
Grizzzly
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 05:34
Is she still alive? Though I don't suppose it should matter if she wasn't should it?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:05:38:28 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:05:38:28 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 09:46
I thought the Jayasuriya signing was an odd one, Grockle, and was not confident of him succeeding in long-from cricket for us, for the simple reason that (at the time) I'm fairly sure that the Oval (where it's often dry and dusty) was the only English Test ground where Mr Jayasuriya had made a significant score.
Therefore, it seemed more than just a possibility that he would struggle in English conditions. Perhaps that's why even though he was an opener, we put him at number 4 (if memory serves) in our line-up.
Tom Cooper arguably faces a similar type of adjustment to trickier English conditions because his home track, the Adelaide Oval, is arguably the flattest track outside of Pakistan!
Therefore, it seemed more than just a possibility that he would struggle in English conditions. Perhaps that's why even though he was an opener, we put him at number 4 (if memory serves) in our line-up.
Tom Cooper arguably faces a similar type of adjustment to trickier English conditions because his home track, the Adelaide Oval, is arguably the flattest track outside of Pakistan!
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 12:05
You really are fun.
You think ANYONE involved in that signing expected such a poor performance from a world beater who had played in all conditions? What a pity they didn't ask you at the time. We would have been so much better off with your expert analysis of the situation. How could they have been so stupid?
You don't get it do you? You take the best option possible at the time for your needs (Sanath, Rehman, Mendis, Langeveldt, Philander, Nannes) and hope you get the best they can give you. Sometimes you get it and sometimes conditions conspire to not provide it.
You of course would never be caught because you understand all the nuances of the player and the environment they are going into.
Unfortunately you don't seem to share your wisdom with the rest of us until after the scenario has played itself out when you come on here to tell us how obvious the error was.
Our management are then critcised for not being related to Nostradamus like you obviously are for not seeing the simple truth of it all.
I'm just amazed someone at the club hasn't read your comments here and got straight on the phone offering you a consultancy during our contractual and selection periods because you never seem to get it wrong... well in the long run anyway.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:12:09:24 by Grockle.
You think ANYONE involved in that signing expected such a poor performance from a world beater who had played in all conditions? What a pity they didn't ask you at the time. We would have been so much better off with your expert analysis of the situation. How could they have been so stupid?
You don't get it do you? You take the best option possible at the time for your needs (Sanath, Rehman, Mendis, Langeveldt, Philander, Nannes) and hope you get the best they can give you. Sometimes you get it and sometimes conditions conspire to not provide it.
You of course would never be caught because you understand all the nuances of the player and the environment they are going into.
Unfortunately you don't seem to share your wisdom with the rest of us until after the scenario has played itself out when you come on here to tell us how obvious the error was.
Our management are then critcised for not being related to Nostradamus like you obviously are for not seeing the simple truth of it all.
I'm just amazed someone at the club hasn't read your comments here and got straight on the phone offering you a consultancy during our contractual and selection periods because you never seem to get it wrong... well in the long run anyway.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:12:09:24 by Grockle.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:10
So, Grockle, if it was YOU making the signing of a Test match opener, would you turn around and bat him at number four?
Before you answer, you may wish to bear in mind, that Somerset openers were not exactly models of consistency at the time, so I don't think the answer is that our openers were so great that the only spot we could find for him was at number four. Tresco was mainly batting for England back then and on those occasions when he was released to play CC cricket, he rarely did anything for SCCC in the CC back then anyway.
No, I think they batted STJ down there as they thought it would suit him better than facing a brand new cherry on damp tracks etc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:33:33 by AGod.
Before you answer, you may wish to bear in mind, that Somerset openers were not exactly models of consistency at the time, so I don't think the answer is that our openers were so great that the only spot we could find for him was at number four. Tresco was mainly batting for England back then and on those occasions when he was released to play CC cricket, he rarely did anything for SCCC in the CC back then anyway.
No, I think they batted STJ down there as they thought it would suit him better than facing a brand new cherry on damp tracks etc.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:33:33 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:11
"You think ANYONE involved in that signing expected such a poor performance from a world beater who had played in all conditions?"
Played in all conditions? Sure
But had he succeeded in all conditions? Pretty sure the answer was no as it was only at the Oval that he'd done much in this country in long-form cricket. And the Oval is not really a typical English track, being - more often than not - a slow, low dusty turner.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:55:33 by AGod.
Played in all conditions? Sure
But had he succeeded in all conditions? Pretty sure the answer was no as it was only at the Oval that he'd done much in this country in long-form cricket. And the Oval is not really a typical English track, being - more often than not - a slow, low dusty turner.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:55:33 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:18
[stats.espncricinfo.com]
Here you go, Grockle.
Sanath came to us in 2005 so all of the stuff before that is relevant.
And what was the stuff - the double hundred on a dusty Oval that I remembered.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Note: in the first innings of the match along, SL bowled 88 overs of spin! Which speaks to how much of a flat, dusty track it was.
Other than that? Only one score of more than 50 anywhere else in England.
One did NOT have to be clairvoyant to realise that there was a good chance that he might struggle in English conditions, unless playing for Surrey (and therefore getting half his games at the Oval).
As for the hindsight thing, I don't think I joined Grockles until June or July of 2005, by which time Jayasuriya had already failed. So you're right that I did not tell you beforehand what I thought but as I'd never come across you that was not surprising. I can tell you that I certainly didn't think "Oh great, we've got STJ, he'll make loads of CC runs for us."
And I'm certainly not claiming to be infallible. I thought that Hashim Amla would score millions of runs for Surrey two years ago and was gutted that we did not get him but, in the event, I think he only made a big difference in one match (on a Bunsen vs Middx). Perhaps, when guys have made it to the extent that Amla has, they sometimes struggle for motivation and focus in the CC?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:43:33 by AGod.
Here you go, Grockle.
Sanath came to us in 2005 so all of the stuff before that is relevant.
And what was the stuff - the double hundred on a dusty Oval that I remembered.
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Note: in the first innings of the match along, SL bowled 88 overs of spin! Which speaks to how much of a flat, dusty track it was.
Other than that? Only one score of more than 50 anywhere else in England.
One did NOT have to be clairvoyant to realise that there was a good chance that he might struggle in English conditions, unless playing for Surrey (and therefore getting half his games at the Oval).
As for the hindsight thing, I don't think I joined Grockles until June or July of 2005, by which time Jayasuriya had already failed. So you're right that I did not tell you beforehand what I thought but as I'd never come across you that was not surprising. I can tell you that I certainly didn't think "Oh great, we've got STJ, he'll make loads of CC runs for us."
And I'm certainly not claiming to be infallible. I thought that Hashim Amla would score millions of runs for Surrey two years ago and was gutted that we did not get him but, in the event, I think he only made a big difference in one match (on a Bunsen vs Middx). Perhaps, when guys have made it to the extent that Amla has, they sometimes struggle for motivation and focus in the CC?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:13:43:33 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:43
Do you have your own version of Cockney Rhyming Slang, AGod?
To me the word "Bunsen" represents "a nice little earner", not presumably your use of the word as "turner".
To me the word "Bunsen" represents "a nice little earner", not presumably your use of the word as "turner".
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:54
Bunsen burner = turner, CP.
Certainly not something which I have invented..
The only other term that I have seen used which I like for a turning track is the phrase (presumably derived from India) of:
"Spitting cobra."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:14:00:17 by AGod.
Certainly not something which I have invented..
The only other term that I have seen used which I like for a turning track is the phrase (presumably derived from India) of:
"Spitting cobra."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:14:00:17 by AGod.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:58
Bunsen A term used by commentators to describe a pitch heavily favouring slow bowlers. From Cockney rhyming slang (Bunsen Burner = turner). [www.espncricinfo.com]
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 13:58
Finally, Grockle, you and I would also have differed in our assessment of Jayasuriya and his place in the game anyway.
I certainly never considered him a "world-beater," as you have described him - not in long-form cricket. Sure, he was excellent in the short form stuff.
But a Test average of 40 does not say "world beater," or anything of the sort, IMO. World-beaters, IMO, tend to average about 50 in Tests e.g. the Master-Blaster.
I certainly never considered him a "world-beater," as you have described him - not in long-form cricket. Sure, he was excellent in the short form stuff.
But a Test average of 40 does not say "world beater," or anything of the sort, IMO. World-beaters, IMO, tend to average about 50 in Tests e.g. the Master-Blaster.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 14:39
i suspect it won't be "And Finally"
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:15
Good comeback. World class.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:50
Sorry.. I'd moved on.
Said my piece, read your three (sorry four) bits that said almost nothing new except how right you are and moved on.
Understood that others were getting bored (can't blame them)
There are times when it is fun and time when you just become... how do they put it? Tedious.
"World Class" why thank you kind sir, you seem to be the only person in the world who knows when someone is according to you so I am very grateful.
As I said
Said my piece, read your three (sorry four) bits that said almost nothing new except how right you are and moved on.
Understood that others were getting bored (can't blame them)
There are times when it is fun and time when you just become... how do they put it? Tedious.
"World Class" why thank you kind sir, you seem to be the only person in the world who knows when someone is according to you so I am very grateful.
As I said
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:52
Nah, I know what I think. You can think what you want. I never considered him a world-beater in long-form cricket.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Botham (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 22:01
Meanwhile, swallows are now arriving and ............
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 01:02
Swallows first spotted on 30th April. They're late.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 07:23
Sack the swallow coach.
Re: Worcs things could happen!!
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 07:30
Unless they are late season swallows in which case its a good job we didn't plan to expect them early because they would have underperformed and disappointed those waiting for them.
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