A Winter'sTale


By Grockle et al
October 5 2021

The 2021 season will be remembered for its semi - COVID structure - not locked down but not really opened up either.  Franchise cricket finally cast its shadow over a domestic UK season rather than flitting around the edges of it in the form of the IPL and others.   Unfortunately 2021 won't be remembered for Somerset fulfilling their promise though hopes were moderately high at the mid point. It all came crashing down at the end and there is a long winter where decisions are required ahead.   We look into it....

Our four day prospects in 2021 were hampered by the ECB and their pitch penalties which were carried over from the 2020 season after the 2019 Essex game at Taunton.  The force of the points deduction was decreased due to the curtailing of the Championship in 2021 but it was still a hefty kick to our hopes of winning a four day trophy starting 8 points behind the rest.

On that basis, at the start of the second half of the Championship season, we had to look at our positon as 'very good'.  We had not only qualified for the top level  'Group 1' part of the conference structure but were a mere 2 and a half points behind the top points accumulator Warwickshire going into the second part of the tournament.  I'd love to explain it to you but I can't be bothered to be honest as it made little sense in the first place but our penalty had been neutralised to all extent and purposes.

After the franchise section of the season, we had most of our players back though at different levels of fitness and form.  We also had a number of players who had some first team experience behind them after the Royal London run which had gone better than expected but ended up with no move into the knock out stages for Ben Green's men.

We also had a place at Vitality Blast Finals day courtesy of a home win against Lancashire in the quarters thanks in no small part to Reolof van der Merwe.  Things were looking exciting for the end of the season, until the last week in August when it all went pear shaped.

We faced Nottinghamshire at Taunton, Yorkshire away at Scarborough, a home game versus Lancashire  and then a final game at Edgbastoon against the starting top side Warwickshire.  The winners of the section would be County Champions and the top two sides would then compete for the Bob Willis Trophy in the last week of September taking the long format tournament into October for the first time I believe.

We had high hopes.   Craig Overton and Jack Leach were back from Test duty, Tom Abell had been in decent form before the white ball interval.  Unfortunately Lewis Gregory was unable to bowl because of an injury but he was capable of batting.  Josh Davey had been working well with the younger bowlers in the RLODC.  Devon Conway was unavailable for this part of the season so we had asked Azhar Ali to return to the line-up to help us after his summmer of international duty. 

The bowling had missed Craig to lead it, Josh had worked manfully as had Jack Brooks.  Sonny Baker had looked exciting but he was with the Under19s facing the Windies along with Ned Leonard and James Rew both of whom had had something of 'breakthrough' seasons.  Marchant de Lange had had good times and not so good for both the franchises and Somerset but we were looking for the bowling to be back to its best. 

The batting was an issue but there were a number of players who we hoped to see show their true potential at the back end of the season.  Unfortunately Eddie Byrom and Sam Young had not made it this far and they were to looking elsewhere for their future after the Royal London (though Sam did distinguish himself in the seconds before he left). Eddie was already on loan to Glamorgan - his county for 2022

We had high hopes for Tom Lammonby and Tom Banton. George Bartlett had hit some form and Lewis Goldsworthy had more than held his own during the mid season games.  We had the skipper back and Lewis the Elder would be able to bolster the middle order.  We were also hoping for contributions from Steve Davies who had been useful in the 50 over games and James Hildreth had not had a great season but he was James Hildreth and it was his time of the season... surely.

None of it came to pass.  The batting collapsed and the bowling could not make up the shortfall.  Not just in the innings defeat at Taunton but then an innings defeat at Scarborough the week after.  A third innnings defeat loomed the week after that and only an unexpected second innings century by Tom Lammonby saved us from it.  That save being a 10 wicket defeat instead.   By the time we got to Birmingham, our hope of a first Championship trophy was a dim memory.  We were fighting for 5th place instead of 6th and Warwickshire were looking to take the crown.  Our batting had been blown away time after time and some of our innings were only held together by bowlers making runs.   We'd dropped Hildreth and still seemed to have no answers,  Warwickshire won the game and the title.

The T20 went little better.  We took on Hampshire in the first semi final and though we held them to a small total, our batsmen then proceeded to try and throw the game away before the batting tail got us over the line with heroics in particular from Josh Davey with bat and ball.

So we reached the final but the paper over the cracks came away and we were easily defeated by a Kent side that just had too much for our shell shocked players in all areas of the game.

The promise of late August fell away as the worries put forward at the start of the season about the depth of resources came to pass. The hopes that the potential of the younger members of the side would start to show through actually coming to nothing in the pressure cooker of the last few games.  We were woefully lacking in bowling resources and poor in the extreme with the bat in all the games with a few very far between exceptions.

So we go into the winter with a number of questions about our position in all three formats and the ability of our player base to answer them in 2022.  The present position is that the 2022 placings will decide the county positions in the two divisions of the County Championship in 2023.  The ECB would love to see us in the second of those divisions rather than being an uncomfortable but successful non urban cricket 'province' raining on their franchise parade. Our present form suggests we will be too weak for the first division based on our performances at the end of this season.

So what is the problem?  Well it's nothing new.  Our batting line-up is fragile and inconsistent.  We put our hopes in Lammonby to be a stalwart at the top of the order and he wasn't.  He has oodles of talent but no consistency and he struggled to put scores on the board that justified his presence in the top three. He can be brilliant and he can be very far from that. He managed more of the latter in 2021. He wasn't alone.  Finding a partner for him was almost as difficult.  Conway was perfect but only for 2 games.  Davies was the best we tried but that was after Byrom, Banton, Bartlett, Abell and Green had all had a go and got almost nowhere.  Even then a top order base to a first innings was doubtful during many games and after August it was a non entity in every game.   It didn't get any better really after the top order had struggled to a low score in a small number of overs. Abell offered some stability at number 3 but was almost always in before the 10th over while James Hildreth struggled to support his captain for nigh on the whole season.  Despite his experience offering something to the youngsters in the RLODC his presence in the Championship was pretty inconsequential in most games - something we are now starting to ask about after a couple of uneventful seasons. 

With Davies in the top order that left Banton and Bartlett to fight for the number 5 spot and neither really took charge of it, though to be fair the collapse of the top four tended to mean they were coming in before the shine was off the new ball or the new ball attack had been blunted by those in front of them.  There were many, this writer included, who congratulated Tom Banton on his decision to look for a red ball place in his county. He may be reassessing that stance after 2021 because he really struggled to impose himself on any red ball game he played.  George Bartlett has more red ball 'chops' but he found his opportunities few and far between and tended to squander them when they came with a waft outside off stump or a thump on the pads plumb in front.

Lewis Goldsworthy was the find of the season, but there is a question about whether he will ever be a second spinner supporting the batting and Jack Leach in the Championship side.  Jack has had a nightmare season in terms of chances to bowl.  He has been woefully underused by the national side while being called up to twiddle his thumbs rather than the ball for most of the summer.  The role of spinner has therefore been in the the hands of RvdM because of the need for experience for most of the games and that has not helped Lewis Junior investigate the spinning aspect of his game all that often.  The fact that we have hardly pushed an opposing side to a position where we could use a spinner has also been a problem.  If you have no runs to play with then you can't give the slow men free rein and if your top spinner has hardly bowled an over in anger you can't afford him to be loose while trying to get some balls under his belt.  Is Lewis a replacement for Dom? With the bat I'd say yes, with the ball probably not presently.

Ahh the seam department.  With Craig Overton in the team we had a great opening bowling attack.  He took his wickets at less than 15 and he took over 40 over them.  But he also kicked his heels in the England setup far too much of the time and when he was there his county partner Josh Davey was not the same. Together they were awesome, they kept us in games when we should have struggled but when they were not together our second level of attack was not enough.  

Lewis Gregory (Lewis Senior) is a very good third seam option but he was not there for the second part of the Championship and we missed him.  He is a player who can play as a batsman alone, he topped the county's first class averages but his replacements with the ball were not as incisive as he is and the injury to Jack Brooks and his very slow rehabilitation for the first part of the season left us wanting.  Marchant de Lange was a decent replacement for the loss of Jamie Overton. Some rated him as a better choice and others looked on him as 'like for like' but he is a 'shock and awe' bowler who is wonderful when he comes off and not when he doesn't - a bit like the faster Overton in that sense.  He was not a third seamer, though at times without Craig and Lewis we had to use him as such.  If not him then we were looking at overbowling Abell and the left armer Lammonby or using Green before we really wanted to.   The younger guys were not ready though we did use Ned Leonard towards the end of the season when things really couldn't get any worse to blood the young man.  Brooks did get back to something like form towards the end of the season and always worked hard but there is still a question about what level of form he will return to given the fact that he isn't getting any younger.  The attack of Overton, Davey, Gregory and de Lange got us places with support from Green, Abell and Lammonby. The attack of Davey, Brooks, Green and de Lange with more than support required from Abell and Lammonby did not get us 20 wickets on many occasions and could not take those wickets fast enough when the batting did not provide run totals that could be defended.  The lesser men worked hard but they aren't guys who will take you 3 or more wickets in an innings often.

So here we are.  What do we need?

Opening batsmen who can stand, produce a base over 50 more often than not, take the shine off the new ball and blunt the new ball attack.  Steve Davies has done that often but as he gets older can he do that and keep? Does he want to do that?  If he does who will partner him?  We need a season of Devon Conway, Chris Rogers, Dean Elgar  An international season long established top three batsman with consistency is VITAL. Some will suggest Azhar Ali? But his consistency has been lacking in his innnings for us in 2021 and even in 2020 - can we rely on him?  Given our batting line-up we MUST rely on this player at 2 or 3.  Ben Green has shown spine and promise in the top 3 but he has to work at his game and he must also have support from the other two in this important position.  Tom Abell may have to look to the number 4 position with the waning of the Hildreth star over more than one season.  James is NOT a constant on this team sheet any more.  Confidence is really important and we have to have a top 4 that provide it.

Davies, Green, International, Abell?

The middle order?  Lewis Gregory is the key here.  He will be joined by my choice as the most promising newcomer the other Lewis - Goldsworthy.  Can he provide spin?  If not then is there stiill a place for Roelof?  If that is an issue where do you put the Tom's Banton and/or Lammonby?  Can you place both?  Will Banton stay?  Will he take the gloves?  He has a fight on his hands iin the future with James Rew if he does but that will probably be for later and depends on rumours of a move being speculation.

Lammonby is probably too good not to consider, he's presently too inconsistent to put in the top four so

Lammonby, Gregory, Goldsworthy (RvdM if 2 spinners are needed and LG Junior isn't up to it, Banton as keeper if Davies is not?)

Then we have the number 8? Craig when he's available and Josh when he isn't.  The question is who pairs with Josh if Craig is called up?  You might say - another international but the fly in that ointment is MdL who IS our other 'international'.  So if he is under contract then we need a) a domestic signing who will take 50 wickets in the season or b) we need an internal bowler who can do so. 

We don't have b) Sonny Baker may be a prospect, Ned Leonard may be a prospect but not 50 Championship wickets in 2022 as the new ball partner for Josh Davey.

With all the will in the world I personally don't see Jack Brooks as that bowler in 2022 and if we use MdL in that role we won't get the 50 and we won't get the best out of the big man in his real role as the paceman who scares the tailend batsmen to death.

So Overton at 8 (or AN Other in the side when he isn't) Davey at 9 (up the order when COve is away) Leachy at 10 and perm the best one on form from the youngsters or MdL (or perm any 2 if spin isn't required or JL is away)

We have to find a third opening bowler for call ups.  We don't have that person in our squad at the moment and it means we use other resources in the wrong way if we don't have it.  We overuse the older assets, ask too much of the 4th and 5th seam options or can't blood our younger possible future stars.

So we come to the last question.  Is there the will to get this done?   Are there the funds to get this done?  Is  the ethos there to get this done?

Firstly we have to ask if the management want to get this done?  Is Mr Hollins looking to push forward the county agenda in red ball cricket to keep Somerset relevant in the English cricket scene? The CEO has been so quiet this summer that I can't tell you personally.  He did have his foot in the franchise camp and Somerset don't.  The issues related to the franchise scheme and the South West of England may be a moveable feast and probably a discussion for another piece.  Andy Nash and Guy Lavender's response to the initial franchise idea has been suggested as being 'supportive' because they believed that Somerset could survive without a national role.  I'd suggest that is not true unless we are a force in the red ball structure as well and one hopes Mr Hollins also sees that as important. I'm yet to be convinced.

What about the will of Andy Hurry and Jason Kerr to take the hard decisions and do we have the money to fund the things we may need to fund? 

We are being told that we have the resources to be a force in the twenties in all formats. 

We probably do.  But a) can we keep them and b) can we develop them into a winning unit?

The purchases suggested above have to include a formative player - probably a batsman who can instill that belief in winning we have not had for a long time.  I'm not necessarily suggesting a change of on-field leadership but some senior player with pedigree who can help Tom Abell put this side into a winning mode.   Ricky Ponting did this for a while with a pretty rudderless (no disrespect to 'George' Burns) Somerset at the start of the millennium.   We need someone to build a winning level of morale early in 2022.  The young talent can only grow if they win and asking them to create the faith needed to push themselves is only going to get us so far, they have to see it happening in a confident and victorious side.  That investment is important.  Hurry and Kerr saw it in the Langer years and they have to want that again. 

The present squad does not presently have the standout player to create that feeling and they have to go and find one to put at the head of that initiative to change Somerset and find that spirit Brian Rose called 'getting over the line'.  He looked for it but he didn't find it and we've been looking for it ever since.  If people don't think Andy and Jason are the people to do this, then who is and when should they start?  It's OK criticising those in charge but without a viable other option the people there NOW have to do this.

Fundng may be a problem and the desire of the right people to come to a non franchise county for a season may also be an issue.  We must have decreased our wage bill in the past few years as people have retired, moved on or not arrived and we have to use that money now.  We may have to make difficult decisions about who is part of the next few seasons and who isn't to provide funds for the longer term plan.  We may actually find this is the biggest obstacle to changing things.

So a lot to ponder. A difficult winter and a hard season ahead. A strange and uncertain future for a non franchise based county looking at a central authority with a white ball agenda and little idea how to deal with anything related to non short format cricket. 

We are not the ECB 'flavour' of 2022.  Our CEO may not have the same view as the supporting public.  Our coaching staff may be complacent about the resources we have and the resources we need. Or simply may not have the money or the supply of options to make the important changes that are needed

Whatever happens has to work or 'Somerset' may cease to exist as an organisation with any kind of importance in the national conversation about domestic cricket.  If that happens then I fear that 'Somerset' may very well cease to exist at all after 2025 in any form that any of us would like to see.....

Wiinter well people

A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 19:17

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:18:17:58:03 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 19:26

Well it's a long one that's for certain.

I haven't really investigated the white ball scenario because to be honest unless the concentration is on the red ball season, the T20 white ball will be irrelevant.

We have to perform in the Championship and those resources have to then provide the basis for the Vitality and then the non franchise staff will operate within the RLODC. Without a winning 4 day unit the T20 will be a bit of a distraction and little more for a while.

The Royal London will help younger players put time in the middle on the CV and hopefully will once more be more than the sum of its parts like this year.

The Championship IS the competition in 2022 or there is little to look forward to in 2023 and beyond I'm personally afraid to say.

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:08:10:08:19 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: That Bloke With The Dog (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 20:27

I can't argue with anything you've written.

The only thing I can think of adding is that when you rightly characterize the club as one that could do with "a batsman who can instil that belief in winning", i.e., a Chris Rogers figure, then Azhar Ali is definitely not that man.

He's a lovely chap, I'm sure, and I don't doubt that he's hard-working and valuable off the field. But on the field, he just gets by in the background. As he's done with the Pakistan national team, he seems to have been blessed with the good fortune of generally just doing enough to avoid being dropped from a side with no alternatives. In other words, by taking a up a place that needs to be filled by a Chris Rogers type, he's one of the root causes of his team's overall failures. But it's very, very difficult to justify that verdict in terms of either his raw figures or his general attitude.

You know - he's a good guy, and he's not the worst player in the side. And that's a really dangerous position to get into with your expensive, overseas player.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 21:26

I think more importantly we need a batting coach, who can get the best out of the likes of Lammonby,Smeed,Goldsworthy, Banton and Green. These players have all shown exceptional ability in different formats of one day cricket , and there is no reason they cannot all have a red ball average of 40 plus, if someone like Justin Langer was able to work with them ,both in the winter months and during the season

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 21:29

Spot on TBWTD . We need to get overseas right and they haven’t done that really. Hard to disagree with Grockle s post too a lot of pertinent issues in there. Feel a bit like Michael holding . He’s said he isn’t going to miss the game now he’s retired as he doesn’t like where it’s headed . Feel a bit the same!! Quite sad!!

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 21:41

Yeah that statement saddened me as well but you know what he means.

The batting coach issue is a weird one. I thought that was Jim Troughton bit he seems to be dealing mostly with youth and second teams. One has to say they used to have the present England one as a coach, as a captsin and as an opener but that didn't work all that well to be honest after about 2017.

You need an example ON the field so players can see the lessons off the field bearing fruit I'm afraid. If the coach's techniques are not stopping you getting out you either lose faith in the techniques or your own ability to put them into practice unless someone is showing you it works and gets runs!!

Back to Pete Trego v Yorkshire trying the Dermot Reeve way of playing using the reverse sweep. Up walks Justin Langer and says 'play it straight back at him!' Don't @#$%& about with gimmicks! PT hits 2 straight sixes, scores well over 100 and we chase down a huge score!! Belief ON the field.

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 11:55

I really want to argue with you, but it’s hard to find much I can argue with! I think the key position will be that opener who has experience & that Aussie style grit to hang around long enough to blunt the new ball. Doesn’t actually need to be a huge scorer, but just stick around consistently so our middle order can do what they’re good at, which isn’t coming in during the first few overs.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 12:55

Sorry brt... I'll try harder to be contentious next time👍 It's not as if these issues haven't been around for quite a while

Agree about the batsman... stickability is what we just don't have and it's difficult to score runs regularly if you don't face balls at the start of a red ball first innings

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:08:16:09:59 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 14:58

Trying to find the half full part of the glass isn't easy tbh. Maybe it just seems a long time until the start of next season, but I have to admit I haven't felt so downbeat about our prospects for quite a few years.

It feels like we missed a series of golden opportunities to win the Championship over the last few years and have, at least temporarily, lost the spirit, endeavour, cohesion and attitude that we need in order to do so.

I don't sense any real degree of leadership from GH, AH & JK as to how we progress from here, but, in addition to bolstering our batting resources, we somehow have to change and strengthen our collective mental fortitude.

Just wish the Club would be more vocal as to how it sees its future within the fractured world that cricket has become. Silence isn't golden chaps.

Grizzers

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 16:18

I have the feeling that no news is NOT good news. I have concerns that Mr Hollins is NOT a county cricket man and that is why we have heard almost nothing from him.

I'm hoping to get a different perception during the regional AGMs as the club AGM has become a non event to a great degree coming so late in the off season as to be almost a pre-emp for the start of the next.

Members need to push Andy and Jason to do more than provide platitudes during their presentations. I used to have a lot of time for Andy as he tended to be brutally honest in his parts and leave the diplomacy to others. That seems to have changed in the last few years. And we don't really have time to wait until the end of January next year for indications that things are changing in terms of emphasis.

Gotta also hope the funds are available for a plan that works and we aren't just patching what there is in the hope the patches will hold. That hasn't worked this year and there is no reason why an older squad will have better patches at the 'old' end next.

Interesting winter n'est pas?

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 16:25

Bloke - I don’t disagree with you that Azhar isn’t the right guy BUT it’s not fair to suggest he’s the root of our problems given that he played only 3 matches! Things had gone wrong way before Az signed this season. Management negativity had seeped in during the first phase of the CC, being one of the main reasons that we won zero red ball games after May 6 (negative decisions such as not even trying to beat Hants or Surrey). Said management negativity combined with a failure to recruit enough pacemen to afford us cover were, I feel the root cause of our failures.

And I have no sense that we will do much, if anything, in terms of recruitment for next season. Management may sign Babar Azam for the T20 and hope to win that to distract from our apparently somewhat bleak CC prospects.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 16:33

Nellie C - I would submit that it might be precisely because they have ability in white ball cricket that most of our guys may never make it in red ball. Finding a decent coach is certainly worth a go, but the mentality required to succeed in red ball is so different that I don’t hold out much hope that a coach will succeed. Look at the various Team England one-day to Test experiments:

Jason Roy - miserable failure

Eoin Morgan - failed

Jos Buttler - marginal, at best. Averages, I think about 33.

Some other countries arguably have better records in that department BUT they don’t have to routinely contend with a duke’s ball and leaden skies… so gaps in concentration and defensive technique are less liable to be fatal for most other countries attempting to get white ball players (e.g. Banton, Smeed) to become a force in white ball cricket.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 17:57

Back to the Surrey game and your theory that it explains everything expounded for at least the third time. Seriously? There are many more aspects to this than whether we bowled Jack at the Oval or not.

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 18:55

If we are looking at a batting coach we could do worse than Gary Palmer . Was ok for Sir Alastair

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 19:20

Surrey wasn’t the only game we didn’t attempt to win - Hants too. Plus prepared a flat track Vs Leics etc

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: That Bloke With The Dog (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 19:45

AGod: I was trying to argue that the presence of Azhar Ali (and the consequent absence of a Chris Rogers figure) is the root cause of our problems last month and consequently for 2022, that being the subject of the thread.

I wouldn't argue against your contention that the wider scale problems in attitude were already manifest in the club back in the spring. It's just that the return of Ali, quietly minding his own business, neither failing nor succeeding, blocked off the opportunity for a dynamic on-field overseas presence to stop those attitude problems from becoming overwhelming.

You want your team to be one that never takes a backward step. In that miserable September those were the only steps they did take, day after day, wicket by wicket.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 22:01

The decision sbout who to replace AA with needs longer consideration. It was probably doubtful that many players were all that available during the period that AA was in late Summer and I can understand why we might have gone for an easy integration of a batsman who we knew and who knew us with the hope that the outcome would be better than it was.

As you say, Azhar came and tried to do his job, it just wasn't to be and he isn't that dynamic 'showing by doing' type of character we probably need for 2022. It wasn't really a case of him being the problem - that was much more far reaching I think but he certainly, as you point out TBWTD, wasn't the solution.

Not sure what the next plan is but as you say, a move to re-sign Ali would be a tread water action at best. But most will have more faith that those planning our next season will not just do that and are looking to move forward.

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:09:08:24:36 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Devonboy70 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 22:05

If we were a football team the management would have been long down the road ! It seems to me that when it came to red ball team selection it was like drawing names out of a hat ! There was little or no consistency of selection. Time for a change methinks because quite frankly too many players are selected when the likely outcome, given previous performance, is abject failure .

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 22:31

Yeah Premier League management is a great example to use as good practice. It's not next year but we have come in second in the Championship half the times in the club's history in the last half decade so what were the management doing wrong then?

There is definitely a need for a change in the processes given the changes in the structure and formats but aren't people simply expecting no flexibility and then demanding punishment of management based on that expectation of future action?

Surely someone has to commit the crime before they are found guilty. Three months ago the same management had us in one Final and second in the first division. Now it seems they have been failing for ever...

So who is the Premier League replacement people have in mind to come in and turn this around? And do we have the next one on the lot should that plan fail in early June or will we blame that on Andy Hurry and Jason Kerr as well?

Let them do the job. Sack em if they don't once you have the next pair ready to go.... it's fun this running sports teams isn't it? No fickleness in the market here.😁

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:09:20:52:48 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 22:38

What worked then doesn’t mean
It will work now . Messrs Kerr snd hurry seem to
Me not be very good at evolving . If they can’t get out!!!

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Devonboy70 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 00:59

Just a point about Hurry and Kerr , regarding our batsmen ( top 6 ) they have been failing to address the chronic situation for a number of seasons .

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 08:43

As did Maynard before that and Nosworthy before that. Yet we still msintained a position thru the application of our bowling unit, our fielding unit and the batting of the tail.

Somerset allowed Marcus to weaken the opening partnership.for a couple of years by not pushing him to step down, they've all relied on Hildreth for too long and stopped the gap with some good top 3 batsmen who kept us in games long enough for the bowlers to do their stuff

If anything, this season we tried something different and looked for an internal solution. We've found it isn't there and so we need to rethink.

The management are criticised for not solving a decade old problem because they tried something different and the solution seems to be to go back to the option that hasn't worked for the last 10 years. If we aren't going to fundamentally reset our top 5 using resources available and at best 2 new inputs then what is the solution?

If the answer is NOT in the squad we have with possibly a couple of astute additions then unless someone turns up with more money than sense like a Premier League side, no management in the world will have the answer.

They have to make what we have work because it is the clay they have to work with like it or not.

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 09:35

The only answer then is to coach them better . Wd all say the players are talented !! So If they can’t do that then it all points to the same result

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 11:26

Coaching them for the position and team role they are best suited for is certainly part of it but we also need replacements for those core players we don't seem to have at the moment
Consistent opener
3rd new ball option
Number 4 future replacement
Future batting 2nd spinner (happy birthday Wes D last week)
Future keeper batsman

Some are possible internal options but some don't seem to be there for next year as we type

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 14:42

As Jason Kerr rightly said in an interview near the end of the season:

Talk of so-called “talent,” independent of production is meaningless… IOW… if you don’t perform? You’re not talented, “period,” (as the Americans would say).

So far as red ball cricket is concerned, relevant skills go beyond the ability to play some exciting shots. You need sound judgement as to whether and when to defend or attack. And if you elect to defend then you need to be sound in technique to do it effectively. You also need strong powers of concentration. And you really need to learn the art of rotating the strike. If there’s one thing I wished Marcus could have taught all of our batsmen before he went off to England, it was his ability to drop the ball at his own feet and take a quick single. That can do so much to relieve pressure and to stop opposing bowlers from getting into a groove.

“Talent,” wise?

Our batsmen are what their records say they are - not talented enough unless, by “talent,” we mean only having a good eye and stroke making ability, and we don’t count any of the other key commodities that I mentioned above.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 15:02

As GGG posts. Part of it is they aren't 'talennted' in that sense yet, But the right coaching and coach can change that.

Tom Abell is 'talented'
Lewis Gregory is 'talented'
Ben Green and Lewis Goldsworthy probably can be 'talented' in the near future

Tom Lammonby needs work

Tom Banton, Will Smeed need work if they are to be considered for red ball work

James Rew? George Thomas? Can be worked on as they develop

While they are still here this should be the work of a batting coach with the support of two who know how this is done - James Hildreth and Stee Davies

Meanwhile we need a front running international batsman of real quality!!

Then there's the bowling!! Some work to be done there as well

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:09:20:17:41 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 16:00

100% Grockle we need reinforcements that’s a given. Where do we get the ones that will make us better ? Hurry’s job . I’s he up to it ? I have doubts . I have said before and others have too we should have recruited last winter but didn’t . Thought we were good enough and Overton and davey carried us in the shortened season and hurry didn’t see this coming . Which is actually part of the issue with him . Now we are behind a bit !!!!

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2021 16:10

I'll go with we didn't know if we were good enough until we tried and developing a relationship with Devon Conway will do us no harm in the long run.

We would have been asking Dom type questions if Banton, Lammonby and Byrom hadn't been tried. Now they have been and we found Goldsworthy and to some extent a revamped Green as well. We also finally got an answer about Eddie unfortunately

But we aren't good enough internally yet so NOW we need long term conscious planning of batting additions So NOW management need to adapt and should expect criticism if they don't

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 08:15

Have read through this thread this morning, and largely agree with the general analysis of what we have and what we need. But very little mention of George Bartlett - I know he had an ordinary 2021, with the odd flash in the pan - but fortunately he's not a flash-in-the-pan batsman, but a proper four-day, red-ball type of player.

Yes, he needs to train on next summer and show more than he did this year, but I do believe George has shown enough in the last three years, when selected, to have a good chance of making a good Somerset career at 3 or 5 in the next decade.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 11:26

Very true Shep - he probably needs some confidence building work before the spring of next year but he did stand up and was counted on more than one occasion during a Somerset batting collapse and he has certainly shown evidence of having 'talent' as a red ball batsman.

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:10:14:11:40 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 11:55

Are you sure Grockle, has he passed Coach AGod's tests yet.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 14:12

I'm sure your post will create a coaching response if that is not the case Nailsea (Sm100)

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 14:39

I'll await the minute dissection of George's technique and his mental fortutude or lack there of with interest.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 15:39

Well it may have to be his white ball inningss because I don't think there were many long red ball ones in the second half of the season.

But I'm sure it will all be grist to the 'all gonna fail' mill at the moment if there is even a chink to criticise and there are certainly 'chinks' for George to work on.

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 22:21

I'm sure very few batters are without chinks indeed some make it to test level with them still present. Our current set seem to be being written off rather early.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2021 23:04

Marcus and his feet?

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Onen hag all (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 10:36

Consistent opener
3rd new ball option
Number 4 future replacement
Future batting 2nd spinner (happy birthday Wes D last week)
Future keeper batsman

Strangely enough, reading this list gave me hope, because it seems to me that we have four people on the current staff who can potentially- potentially! - fill four of the five vacancies - Baker, Bartlett, Goldsworthy and Rew, respectively. The really glaring lack is the reliable opener. I think, sadly, that the right decision was made about Eddie and Sam Young; and I don’t see anyone out of contract at another county who would fit the Bill. It pains me very much that Marcus Harris, who would have, is now with Glos of all people. But I guess we have to keep looking overseas.

Two of the above strike me as probably needing better management. Why on earth do we hardly ever bowl Lewis in the CC? I know he’s no Bedi or indeed Leach, but he’s not bad at all, and will only improve if he’s allowed to bowl some decent length spells. And, while I agree with others about George’s ability, he’s always seemed to me to be held back by an obvious technical fault that surely a decent batting coach would have helped him sort out. The guy’s a lovely player, but has always been a walking lbw candidate early in his innings. He starts trying to whip across the line before he’s got his eye in, and has exacerbated this in recent times by often taking an off-stump guard. If even an ignoramus like me can see that, surely someone in a professional coaching set up can see it, and do something about it?

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 11:04

You aren't the only one who has mentiined that in the past Onen.

With some of our players its a time issue.. Baker and Rew being 2 who we have to hope will come through in the next few.

Question is when and what do we do until then? Personally I think Bartlett and Goldsworthy are ready with renewed application. I think we've gone with the more experienced RvdM at times when LG could have bowled, partly also because of fear of a top end batting collapse so Roelof was playing anyway.

Gotta decide on Lewis or nor at some time.. especially if Leachy has a decent Ashes. Our next option is only 15 I think so if we go internally spin options from 2024 to 2027 look vague presently.

(Sm72)

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 19:26

Unfortunately. Onen, the modern day coaching philosophy is that “batsmen know best,” and the job of the coach is to offer assistance only if requested to do so (by the player).

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 19:30

Our guys are beset by blindingly obvious flaws and the fact that these have persisted for some time implies that our batsmen haven’t deemed these problems worthy of correction and, hence, that they haven’t asked our coaches to help them
correct said faults.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 19:32

No need for “minute analysis,” Nailsea since any fool can see that, if you don’t bring the bat down straight in defence, then issues are likely to ensue.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Onen hag all (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 22:51

Quote:
AGod
Unfortunately. Onen, the modern day coaching philosophy is that “batsmen know best,” and the job of the coach is to offer assistance only if requested to do so (by the player).

Blimey! It’s like my doctor treating me only for problems I have diagnosed. myself. Recipe for disaster.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2021 23:20

Well im sure our professionally employed fools would be grateful for any amateur coaching tips you'd like to give them, at the AGM maybe.

I'm sure they'd welcime you're input especially if they've overlooked these blindingly obvious flaws.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2021 08:55

Must be great to have an “advisor “ AGod. Does he get a percentage?

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2021 09:40

It's also the case that the professional emphasis is on the short format and the longer games are thrown in around the white ball games. So a young player looking to define their technique early finds one requirement contradicting with the other and there is a constant swapping between the 2.

Attack early in 1 defend early in the other, what day is it? Who am I playing for?

A longish period of consistent 4 day games at a time of the season when batting is to the fore doesn't really exist any more. Most 4 day batsmen are expected to learn their technique in games against a dangerously moving ball at the start or the end of the summer. If you don't get it down early or your general mode of play is stroke making you are on a learning 'hiding to nothing' quite a lot of the time unless you take notice of the coaches.

Seems very strange that the accepted 'modern philosophy' according to one of our technique experts is obviously to not bother with them at all from a playing OR management point of view and make coaching seemingly optional. I've not heard of this method before.

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:12:09:46:32 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2021 19:44

No one has mentioned the wicket's that we are preparing nowadays at Taunton . A green top on day one with plenty of grass seems to be the only way to produce a positive result of any kind at the moment.
In the past few seasons we've always decided to bat first whatever, knowing full well that a 200 score would probably be enough for Jack and Dom to work with as the pitches started to break up on day 2..
The last two seasons the pitch has got better and flatter as the game goes on, so the emphasis has gone back to bowling first, to make use of the seam etc..
That is probably why batsmen 7 to 11 Have been producing higher scores and averages.
It would be interesting to look at first innings averages at Taunton compared to second innings.
Also to look at averages when we have batted first or second.
Are we really producing pitches at Taunton for our own benefit. Should we be producing better first day pitches , and should we be looking to going back to spin friendly now, or haven't we the depth on that front.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2021 20:04

The depth is OK with 2 spinners when one of them has actually been bowling competitively for a significant part of the season and hasn't been operating as an international net bowler and drinks waiter

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:14:17:35:16 by Grockle.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 14/10/2021 16:13

Now we're back to a two tier CC structure it should be time for AH and JK to look at 2nd division batsmen especially and entice someone from the lower division into the first division set up.Notts, Durham and Middlesex players will especially be on the radar one would assume.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 14/10/2021 16:26

Best news since the death of Mary Tudor - it's been a long wait until common sense prevailed...

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 14/10/2021 21:59

No chance . Don’t be silly

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 15/10/2021 17:39

Sadly, Nellie, I think the divisions are now only relevant for recruitment purposes when comparing two teams, neither of which have a worthless franchise. For example, I doubt anyone would leave CC2 Glamorgan, home of Welsh Dire, for CC1 Somerset, no matter how dire Glam were in CC2.

Re: A Winter'sTale
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/10/2021 21:13

Well they won't be playing for the franchise unless picked up in the draft and we need a red ball expert NOT a white ball - we have a number of them.

No worries. If they aren't interested then they'll be of little use to us anyway

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:15:21:14:35 by Grockle.

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