Welsh v English

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While the team looks pretty strong on paper and there are a number of players unavailable based on injury, what I am struggling to understand (help me please) is why we continue to leave some of our best players on the bench. Sharp, Jones, Flanagan and Thompson-Stringer should all be some of the first names on the team sheet if fit (There was a reason why we performed so well against Bristol and all 4 were in the starting 15).
Sharp was man of the match for me in the first two games and fair enough if he took a knock could perhaps understand him taking a break last week (although he was fit enough to sit on the bench) but to not select him 2 weeks running beggers belief. We need his goal kicking as yet again Dorrian missed a few last week. Our lineout will not function as well without Wells so we then leave out our other go to man Flanagan?!?!?
We should be seeing the Welsh game as very winnable. We could have had 4 from 4 and now fear it will be 2 from 4, crowds will drop and less revenue. Is this a game we can leave our best players out. Choices on selection again leave us supporters short changed!!
Answers on a postcard please.

I can't keep up with the changes, but I am sure there is a logic in there somewhere. After all we are not experts, as was proved in the Bristol aftermath, which shot our collective foxes.

I guess leaving out the best line out jumper we have had for years means that we have the set pieces covered enough and the penalties, conversions, playmaking, even with JS on the bench. So no reason to be concerned is there?

Quote:

Come Rain or Shine
While the team looks pretty strong on paper and there are a number of players unavailable based on injury, what I am struggling to understand (help me please) is why we continue to leave some of our best players on the bench. Sharp, Jones, Flanagan and Thompson-Stringer should all be some of the first names on the team sheet if fit (There was a reason why we performed so well against Bristol and all 4 were in the starting 15).
Sharp was man of the match for me in the first two games and fair enough if he took a knock could perhaps understand him taking a break last week (although he was fit enough to sit on the bench) but to not select him 2 weeks running beggers belief. We need his goal kicking as yet again Dorrian missed a few last week. Our lineout will not function as well without Wells so we then leave out our other go to man Flanagan?!?!?
We should be seeing the Welsh game as very winnable. We could have had 4 from 4 and now fear it will be 2 from 4, crowds will drop and less revenue. Is this a game we can leave our best players out. Choices on selection again leave us supporters short changed!!
Answers on a postcard please.

I couldn't agree more - spot on !

And can anyone explain why we are letting Adamson and Williams play for Ampthill

At a loss again with the selection in 3 or 4 positions. NFW is not an 8 and Jake is one of our best players, Mylo has been missing more kicks than he's been getting, play him at 12. We seem to be going backwards rather than forwards. The management need to get a grip! That said we could still win

Beggars belief

Pick your best 15 every time and then fill up the bench with the rest of the best

Again I say no top 4 place no additional revenue

We will still be rotating when we play Ampthill next year. And we will not be able to loan them players either

come rain or shine - hit the nail!

I think Rayer has this warped tactical brain that says don't field your strongest team but have a strong bench and introduce these players when it's neatly too late?

I think if it backfires people are going to start rumbling on about him to go and to be honest given our strong start over the first two games, seemingly throwing away last week I want to see us winning again. We've shown we can do it, but can't throw it away by experimenting

Pick your strongest team, every week! Forcing players on the fringe to perform in training to oust the starters

But maybe that's the problem with not having a second team or a full time squad, you don't get to see everybody in action all the time to assess their form

God knows what our strongest team is !

Yes 'Blue for You' and he will not even know that at last game of the season

Shambles, absolute shambles. For those interested in seeing a form team go to see Ampthill at home tomorrow against Henley, they don't do the Hokey Cokey with the team week in week out like us!

"For those interested in seeing a form team go to see Ampthill at home tomorrow against Henley, they don't do the Hokey Cokey with the team week in week out like us!"

That's right. After all Dyer has played at No 8 all season hasn't he! Oh and Tarrant has moved to 12 from 10, Adamson & Williams imported from us, Ma'asi starts, no Barrett at 9. Almost exactly the same as last week, not!!

It is a squad game and like it or not we have to get used to that. Every club does it, not just us. If Ampthill lose you won't hear anybody calling for Paul Turner's head because the supporters get behind the team & club.

Now, I am not saying that it is a side I would pick but it doesn't mean I am not cheering them on or will not be very disappointed not to win. LW are not the side they were and we should as a minimum be aiming for 2 bonus points because we are capable of that.

Let's not get all shouty about the team before the game has started.

Fair enough, but most of us would start with our strongest 15 week in week out if we could.

Yes start with a strong team but it's just as important to have a strong bench, look at England last week. Steve O is right it is a squad game and you need players that can come of the bench and change a game. We have got a strong bench for tomorrow and I'll be at ODP not Ampthill. I think we have a good chance of winning with this squad.COYB!!

Yeah me too. COYB

Apologies for the rant earlier, not had a good week to be honest. Calmed down now and looking forward to the game.

JW No need to say a thing.......we have all been there ......'tomorrow is another day' as Mother Simonite used to say......

Let's us all pray for a 'double' over the Welsh and the our world will feel a whole lot better.........

F/T 30-24. Thought we were in at the end. A losing bonus point against one of the favourites is pretty good, but what if............? Just saying

Agree JW, I'm honestly still not disheartened, we're in these games till the end something we rarely saw last season. I back us to beat both these teams at home!

Safely seated at HQ I am now reflecting on todays game. Welsh always seemed able to do just enough to keep safely ahead, they never looked like losing at any poin and seemed to have things in reserve. This is not being critical of Bedford who really gave it their all. Once again this shows the difference between the top teams and the rest of the league.

or full time and part time - I know we keep going on about it but it's really starting to bite us on the @#$%&, big time!

Three points off of fourth place, not bad really

11 points is probably more than anyone would've expected at this stage. Already played 3 away at Bristol, Scottish and Welsh. Arguably we could've had a few more points, so a promising start.

Nottingham is a must win being back at home.

My view of the match was one of initial errors giving Welsh the advantage early on. After that we matched them all the way and again took the game to them. Immensely proud of the boys and the travelling (and very vocal) support. We need fear no team this season.

If MR keeps the rotation then OK, but not liking it too much. We looked vulnerable in the line out early on and one loss led directly to a Welsh try, without MF and HW we were critically exposed, but positively the scrum was very solid again. Missed kicks a worry (six points begging).

Hard to beat as an away match though, the home of London Welsh; this season anyway. Campo was followers MOM, he just gets better and better. Well done Blues, now focus on Nottingham, important match.

Red Eagle if we pick the right side this season there is not reason why we cannot be one of those top teams you speak about

Pick the right side to do the job and there is no reason by we should not be a top 4 side

Totally agree PPB, this is a good squad and it would be a crying shame if games were shaded against us because players needed game time, only enabled by the in form players making way. Top four is on the cards if we get it right consistently.

I have my £100 cheque in my pocket

Great 2nd half performance, pity we didn't start better, had we and I think we would have won. Still 11 points, that's 7 more than I thought we would have

Play Sharp at 10 and someone else at 8, please

From a Welsh point of view, thought our players stepped off the gas after about 30 minutes and lacked the right attitude to really put your boys to the sword on Saturday. That said your boys dug in there and played some good stuff yourselves, your set piece was strong and gave us all sorts of problems. I think you should do pretty well this season if you can keep the momentum up. as someone else said it is a squad game over the season and if you want to continue to build that cohesion throughout the season then you will need to rotate the squad to some extent, later on when fatigue and injuries hit, you need players with match experience who can slot into the team as seamlessly as possible.
Thought your travelling support was great and a credit to your club we had some good fun with the Bedford supporters around u.
Good luck for the rest of the season.

We almost turned it around . . . . . That's what happens when you bring on your form players. Losing margin was 4 points (Would Sharp or Jones have missed those kicks if they we on the pitch at 10 and 15). Try conceded from our own line out (numerous through the game). Would that have happened had we had our best line out jumper on the picth? Sorry for being the negative voice amongst us but I really feel we could be sitting top with 4 wins from 4 and instead now find ourselves playing catch up and handing the advantage to some very average teams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:09:28:10:19:48 by Come Rain or Shine.

Totally agree

Quote:

Come Rain or Shine
We almost turned it around . . . . . That's what happens when you bring on your form players. Losing margin was 4 points (Would Sharp or Jones have missed those kicks if they we on the pitch at 10 and 15). Try conceded from our own line out (numerous through the game). Would that have happened had we had our best line out jumper on the picth? Sorry for being the negative voice amongst us but I really feel we could be sitting top with 4 wins from 4 and instead now find ourselves playing catch up and handing the advantage to some very average teams.

Not negative at all, thats what happens when you make wholesale unnecessary changes week in and week out. Four games gone and I suspect we've made around 20 changes so far this season. Obviously MR thinks our players need a break and are suffering from exhaustion in the eraly part of the season, or maybe they just arn't fit enough to cope with 4 games in a month.Clueless team selection hardly based on form from Tinkerman.

Seems like a few of us are on the same wavelength with regards the Hokey Cokey system at the Blues.

Quote:

Jonathan Wilcox
Seems like a few of us are on the same wavelength with regards the Hokey Cokey system at the Blues.

How many changes this week for Nottingham, I guess 6, higher or lower, doesn't MR realise points make prizes

If you don't make changes your star players will suffer from fatigue meaning injury risk is high and then you'll see them less over the course of the season than if you manage the players.

What happens when your player gets injured? You then have to select a player who you have given no confidence in nor game time. He's undercooked and looks totally out of place, have we experienced anyone like that?

Kerr is your classic example had not played in ages and looked totally out of his depth despite having played at a higher level previously.

Then many on here would be moaning why didn't we play him earlier to make sure he was prepared etc etc.

How is Mr Kerr doing now? - anyway - in God and his faithful followers I trust - Mike is doing his best ( which may not be good enough for some ) to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear - and that does not happen over night or over a season - the club needs further investment we can't keep waiting for Mr Irvine to put his hands in his deep deep pockets time and time again - new share issue anyone? - how do teams that get crowds of 444 in our league survive God only knows.

Try Blues,

I would rather have a team that is shattered come the end of the season than have a team that is fresh with an extra 6 weeks summer holiday because we have again missed out on the play offs. If you are really telling me that after 2, 3 and 4 games into the season we need to make 6 or 7 changes because players are tired then really they should not be playing at this level (I think I could manage that even now!). Other teams don't do it as much and when they do they pick the right games, they don't do it against rivals for a top 4 spot. I'll remind you of this at the end of the season when we have a fit, fresh squad while we sit watching the other sides in the division compete in the playoffs.
We have the Mickey Mouse cup coming up soon . . . . . I assume we can expect to have a full strength line up for that as we have saved players in reserve especially for it.
The last two seasons have been the same thing . . . . . . Look how they ended!! Appears you are disagreeing with about 95% of the rest of us . . . . Your not Mike Rayer are you?

Try Blues is exactly right is what he says. It is ridiculous to play the same team week in week out. Everybody else does the same as us, the difference being we don't know their squad as well so it is harder to pick up on. Look at the LW team against us and compare it to the previous week.
At this stage of the season it is not about tiredness it is about ensuring game time for people so that they are all up to speed. You cannot leave players with no game time and then expect them to perform when called upon several months down the line because the 'first 15 ' have injuries.
It is for this reason that players like Tom Williams and Dean Adamson played for Ampthill last week. Players have to play to stay at the top of their game.

Come Rain or Shine - do you really think you could play 2 or 3 games at this level?? Have you seen the Jack Whitehouse adverts? I think it would be very similar - perhaps some half time entertainment?

Steve O - please explain why Sharp has been on the bench for the last few games and why NFW has been starting at 8. I'm of the opinion that we could have won both the last two games had Mr R not tinkered with the team so much.

Reign your neck in Steve O

You are obviously one of those that would watch 2 dogs in the middle of the pith doing naughties rather than a side that aspires to a top four position at the end of the season

It's not the changes or number of changes it's the players Rayer is choosing to rotate and the games he is choosing to do it in. I agree with JW you don't leave Sharp and Thompson-Stringer out 2 weeks running after their performances in the first couple of games. If they were on the bench against Scottish to give others the run out then why also against Welsh? You don't leave Flanagan out when the over go to lineout jumper Wells is injured. Rotating the odd 2, 3 or 4 players is one thing . . . . . leaving out your form players is quite another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:09:29:13:30:13 by Come Rain or Shine.

Put it another way, should those players have been dropped to the bench following their performances in the first two games, NO they shouldn't have!

Quote:

Steve O
Try Blues is exactly right is what he says. It is ridiculous to play the same team week in week out. Everybody else does the same as us, the difference being we don't know their squad as well so it is harder to pick up on. Look at the LW team against us and compare it to the previous week.
At this stage of the season it is not about tiredness it is about ensuring game time for people so that they are all up to speed. You cannot leave players with no game time and then expect them to perform when called upon several months down the line because the 'first 15 ' have injuries.
It is for this reason that players like Tom Williams and Dean Adamson played for Ampthill last week. Players have to play to stay at the top of their game.

Come Rain or Shine - do you really think you could play 2 or 3 games at this level?? Have you seen the Jack Whitehouse adverts? I think it would be very similar - perhaps some half time entertainment?

Keep this short and sweet - Absolute rubbish Try Blues and Steve O, if you're telling us that players need resting after 2 games then we might aswell pack up and go home now.

Boozy blue - try reading my post instead of seeing what you want to see. It clearly says it is not about tiredness.

PPB - of course I want the Blues to be challenging for the top 4. What I am saying is that you won't do that by picking the same team every week, because they won't last past December as their bodies won't take it. That's why we sign a squad not a team, they all need to be able to play when required.

JW - I have no idea about individuals, all I am saying is that I can understand why changes are made as a whole.

Anyway it's irrelevant what team we pick this weekend coming as we have Greg Garner reffing, so we are guaranteed to get pinged to death and lose.

Oh joy.

Hang on a minute you're being negative before the team is even announced, have you been posting on the England site too, lol. Rayer will undoubtedly use your last comment to motivate his 'Squad' to good affect we hope and record max points against Nottingham

Four games in we should know our strongest team and it should pick itself apart from injuries. The only thing that maybe should be rotated is the bench.

As Steve O has said its nothing to do with tiredness now! Of course the players can play more than 2 games. The problem is, if the player then ends up playing 6 or so games on the trot then we may not see him for the next 10 as repetitive little niggles can develop into something more serious! I'd much rather we missed a player for a couple of games than most of the season.

6 or so games on the trot, what is this nonsense Try Blues. ..... Play your strongest team and muck around with the bench, play an out and out 8 at 8 and play your best at 10. I'm fed up with all the excuses, provide some rationale behind selection when we name the team, provide an update on injured players, advise the supporters if 'squad' members are being put out on loan.......it's not difficult is it!

It would be particularly galling if we end up missing the playoffs, but by then have a fully interchangeable fit team, due to the rotation policy. That would be ridiculous.

I personally do not believe the 'rotation logic' spouted on this forum. Injuries will take care of a large proportion of selection decisions. We recently were down to a novice replacement on the front row as an example. Harry Wells turned an ankle, hence he was out Saturday. Long term injuries are always in there, of which we have several.

If we have to throw in a match deprived player into a consistently winning team, so be it. Pound to a penny they will perform.

Yes the rotation logic is illogical IMO. What's happened to Sam Blanchet, is he injured too? The main site should provide an update on injuries to the squad. The pre match video should provide some rationale behind selection and it should be Rayer in front of the camera unless he's injured too).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:09:29:22:22:13 by Jonathan Wilcox.

Quote:

Jonathan Wilcox
6 or so games on the trot, what is this nonsense Try Blues. ..... Play your strongest team and muck around with the bench, play an out and out 8 at 8 and play your best at 10. I'm fed up with all the excuses, provide some rationale behind selection when we name the team, provide an update on injured players, advise the supporters if 'squad' members are being put out on loan.......it's not difficult is it!

Apparently JW it's not about tiredness according to Try Blues and Steve O, its all about giving players game time. So I'm just going to get on the phone to Lancaster and advise him to make 8 or 9 changes for saturday just to give the fringe players some game time. And before those two come back at me on this it's about playing your best in form team in those games you have a realistic chance of winning, and that should of happened the last 2 weeks. Minimum changes each week and they should be injury enforced, or when you are absolutely sure you can win a game using fringe players.

Quote:

Blue Fox
It would be particularly galling if we end up missing the playoffs, but by then have a fully interchangeable fit team, due to the rotation policy. That would be ridiculous.
I personally do not believe the 'rotation logic' spouted on this forum. Injuries will take care of a large proportion of selection decisions. We recently were down to a novice replacement on the front row as an example. Harry Wells turned an ankle, hence he was out Saturday. Long term injuries are always in there, of which we have several.

If we have to throw in a match deprived player into a consistently winning team, so be it. Pound to a penny they will perform.

I couldn't agree more!!!
Play the strongest team to give us a shot at the playoffs.
If we'd have kept our strongest side (and changes would have been made based on injuries anyway) I believe we would be top of the table now.
Instead we have handed the advantage back.
Playing a consistent side builds consistency in performance - notice the line outs being lost on our own throw, knock ons, missed passes, missed kicks at goal all creeping back in last week???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:09:30:13:30:46 by Come Rain or Shine.

That said I fully expect us to be back full guns blazing and winning at home against nottingham!

Instead of singing "Swing low sweet chariot" perhaps the England fans should be singing to Lancaster

" Are you Rayer in disguise are you Rayer in disguise"

Sorry it's a football anthem but I could not resist it

Should be a good battle at 9 if DV is playing

Quote:

Jonathan Wilcox
Should be a good battle at 9 if DV is playing

Don't forget Hakola at centre JW - He may have a point to prove

Yes and TJ

Will move across to new thread.