Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmare
Prem Victory?
By KevinTheB
June 1 2012
London Welsh win the Championship, and want to be promoted. Other than out and out Newcastle supporters, a result everyone else wanted ... except the Management of Premiership Rugby, perhaps?
There would have been plenty of people in the far north of England and out in the wilds of the West Country who were rooting for the Pirates on Wednesday, but deep down, many people were wishing for a Welsh win to get some new blood in the Premiership.
The magnificent job Exeter have made in the top division this year shows that it is possible to get promoted and make an impact, and I don't suppose I'd be the only one more likely to travel to watch LW play (wherever that happens to be) than get my passport and wooly undies out and head for the frozen wastes of Northumbria.
However, the Premiership Management and the RFU must now face a challenge from Welsh about the criteria for promotion - a court case to establish whether one rule for Peter and a different rule for Paul is acceptable surely isn't what they were hoping for.
And as has been well reported already, the state of Newcastle's fate is still uncertain, (as is ours on the basis that if Wasps go into Administration due to the lack of a deal for a new owner a points deduction could relegate us potentially instead of Newcastle) and so any movement of players to top up their talent bank (ours seem to be coming through OK) is jeopardised. Same for Welsh.
Given the historic requirement for a full 7 course tasting menu plus wines selected by the sommelier to be organised and consumed before any action of any kind comes out of the Committee Rooms at Twickenham, I can see this getting into the Courts pretty quickly.
For me - let London Welsh take the place that they earned by right, even if their ground facilities are not as good as those demonstrated by Bath, and let rugby decide whether it is the right decision or not.
KtB
Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: DrunkenWasps.com (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2012 10:43
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Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: deadmancarl (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2012 11:05
Sounds good. I'm all of Welsh getting promoted. They did the hard work in winning the league so let them up.
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: muglee (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2012 11:43
I can see the rfu letting welsh up and not relegating Newcastle...
Surely that makes everyone happy!
Surely that makes everyone happy!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: 13thWarrior (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2012 12:56
"Other than out and out Newcastle supporters, a result everyone else wanted ... except the Management of Premiership Rugby, perhaps?
There would have been plenty of people in the far north of England and out in the wilds of the West Country who were rooting for the Pirates on Wednesday, but deep down, many people were wishing for a Welsh win to get some new blood in the Premiership."
I completely disagree, much better to keep a strong hold of rugby union in the north rather than another london-ish team.
So I would've also preferred the Pirates to win and hopefully some time they can get promoted.
I don't like the way Welsh have been denied, but it may work out for the best
It's times like these I ask myself: "What Would Josh Lewsey Do?"
There would have been plenty of people in the far north of England and out in the wilds of the West Country who were rooting for the Pirates on Wednesday, but deep down, many people were wishing for a Welsh win to get some new blood in the Premiership."
I completely disagree, much better to keep a strong hold of rugby union in the north rather than another london-ish team.
So I would've also preferred the Pirates to win and hopefully some time they can get promoted.
I don't like the way Welsh have been denied, but it may work out for the best
It's times like these I ask myself: "What Would Josh Lewsey Do?"
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: Geronimo Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2012 20:38
As an Exeter supporter (of many seasons) I see this differently. If Welsh end up in the courts and succeed in attaining promotion courtesy of a Judge then I fully expect that the RFU and PRL will suitably compensate The Chiefs for the "additional costs" we incurred in doing our damndest to comply as well as refunding the "fines" imposed on us for our minor infractions since (apparently we suffer "costs" because the press corps tables are an inch or two too narrow).
I harbour no ill will towards Welsh or any other Championship club (it's were Exeter came from) but for crying out loud, them rules are clear, even if some think they aren't fair!
I harbour no ill will towards Welsh or any other Championship club (it's were Exeter came from) but for crying out loud, them rules are clear, even if some think they aren't fair!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: Seaxe_Man (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2012 14:56
Agree entirely. Results on the field have to decide promotion/relegation.
Not the convenience of geographical location.
In any case, NCL could be expected to make a swift return.
Not the convenience of geographical location.
In any case, NCL could be expected to make a swift return.
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: lucy worsley (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 03:46
The best team in the league were Bristol.
London Welsh had a good semi and final. Now you can say the rules are the rules, and you'd be right, but you have to ask yourself do the rules as currently constituted help pick the best team in the championship?
Only a fool would say yes. The great injustice here is that the fourth best team in the league are having a shot at the premierships.
London Welsh had a good semi and final. Now you can say the rules are the rules, and you'd be right, but you have to ask yourself do the rules as currently constituted help pick the best team in the championship?
Only a fool would say yes. The great injustice here is that the fourth best team in the league are having a shot at the premierships.
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: RogerE (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 08:49
There are 2 concerns:
1) Did the PRL/RFU follow the current process correctly?
2) Is the current process fair?
Almost certainly the current process was followed exactly, and so it is unlikely that any legal appeal on those grounds would be allowed.
It is the fairness of the current process that could be questioned, and even if the court decided the current structure was wrong the result would probably be the RFU/PRL being told to put a new structure in place, not to automatically allow promotion of LW.
I understand the conditions that apply to allow promotion have already been changed for the end of next season, and these will make it easier for Div 1 teams to be promoted.
Roger
1) Did the PRL/RFU follow the current process correctly?
2) Is the current process fair?
Almost certainly the current process was followed exactly, and so it is unlikely that any legal appeal on those grounds would be allowed.
It is the fairness of the current process that could be questioned, and even if the court decided the current structure was wrong the result would probably be the RFU/PRL being told to put a new structure in place, not to automatically allow promotion of LW.
I understand the conditions that apply to allow promotion have already been changed for the end of next season, and these will make it easier for Div 1 teams to be promoted.
Roger
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: Gaz (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 08:56
Also, I believe the ridiculous mini-league system has been abandoned from next year making it the same as the premiership play off system.
Dont know if that would have helped bristol but it would mean it is less attritional.
Dont know if that would have helped bristol but it would mean it is less attritional.
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: pds18464 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 10:32
I think there is a lot to be said for major club in north east - none of the London Stansted clubs have truly engaged in the London Market and none are financially successful and there is no need for another
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: cb@wasps (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 10:44
Let the rugby on the field decide, not whether or not they have a 10,000 seat stadium which they don’t need anyway (as well as all the other criteria) We certainly shouldn't be deciding relegation based on a team’s geographic location as some seem to suggest. We need a team in the North East so we can’t relegate them !!!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: pds18464 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2012 11:39
I agree wit that too but iof we are in the business of making exception from the current rules the the bigger picture is worth considering.
I would love to see prem games at Penzance or suchlike if they won teh league but the rules dont say that either.
Ultimatley prem rugby has to make up its mind
I would love to see prem games at Penzance or suchlike if they won teh league but the rules dont say that either.
Ultimatley prem rugby has to make up its mind
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: abcd in the sun sun sun (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2012 09:37
This has as much to do with where the clubs are based as it has on the colour of their playing kit!!
I dont give a toss if the 'London club' have not been enrirely successful as stated by some (however, with Quinns the current champs, Sarries the year before I think that arguement is without merit)
If a club wins the league fair and square then they deserve to come up.
The capacity rule is a joke. Wasps should have been relegated on the basis that we sturggled to get 4-5K in Adams park this year!!!!
I dont give a toss if the 'London club' have not been enrirely successful as stated by some (however, with Quinns the current champs, Sarries the year before I think that arguement is without merit)
If a club wins the league fair and square then they deserve to come up.
The capacity rule is a joke. Wasps should have been relegated on the basis that we sturggled to get 4-5K in Adams park this year!!!!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: poo on the floor not the ceiling (IP Logged)
Date: 17/07/2012 21:25
Bristol were the best team in the league
it is oiutrageous that promotion was ddecinded on the basis of a play off lottery
it is oiutrageous that promotion was ddecinded on the basis of a play off lottery
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2012 10:48
Maybe it is a lottery, but those are the rules. If you dont like the rules, get them changed, dont play the game, or stomp of in tizzy mumbling about how unfair it is.
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: arquero (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2012 10:56
BP,
Can't help thinking you've left the door open for Beckenham to give us chapter and verse on how the rules were also in place all season WRT Minimum Standard Criteria, etc. but Welsh managed to wangle their way round that!
Can't help thinking you've left the door open for Beckenham to give us chapter and verse on how the rules were also in place all season WRT Minimum Standard Criteria, etc. but Welsh managed to wangle their way round that!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: Rifleman Harris (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2012 12:06
They probably used all the money given to them by the RFU to do it too!!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/07/2012 15:05
Like i said, if you dont like the rules, get them changed.
Which essentially is what Welsh have done.
and apologies in advance if Beckenham goes off on one about his hatred of rich welsh lawyers
Which essentially is what Welsh have done.
and apologies in advance if Beckenham goes off on one about his hatred of rich welsh lawyers
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: wombles222 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/07/2012 05:41
Quote:lucy worsley
The best team in the league were Bristol.
London Welsh had a good semi and final. Now you can say the rules are the rules, and you'd be right, but you have to ask yourself do the rules as currently constituted help pick the best team in the championship?
Only a fool would say yes. The great injustice here is that the fourth best team in the league are having a shot at the premierships.
I find this odd! Why would only a fool say this? By that mentality we are all fools for believing that we were the best team in the 4 seasons that we lifted the title! The "Top of the league at the end of the season are the best" mentality is completely innacurate! EVERY team enters each season knowing EXACTLY what they must do in order to be deemed champions, if that is by ways of a play off then so be it! It will be the team that not only plays the season well, but the team that manages and plays the play offs well that is the deserved champion and the best team! You dont hear any team/DOR/player moan about this, as they understand it and accept it! Perhaps more fans should have the grace to accept it also!
It is Welsh's right to be in the premiership as they won it on the most important stage, and that is the cabbage patch! Let the off field items fall where it may, however if we lose what is a key foundation to competitive sport, and that is promotion and relegation based upon playing merits only, we lose the heart of competition itself!
Re: Premiership Rugby's Worst Nightmane
Posted by: arquero (IP Logged)
Date: 19/07/2012 10:59
Wombles,
Quite right. During the Gatland/Edwards years, Wasps seemed to know exactly how to play the system in front of them, and timed their run-in to perfection. I don't believe for one moment that was pure luck!
Just one point WRT The Championship final. AFAIK, it was not won on the "cabbage patch" but in a two leg final, home and away for the two teams. If anything, it makes your post even more relevant since both teams had a chance on their own patch to stake their claim for a seat at the top table.London Welsh must have done it the best!
Quite right. During the Gatland/Edwards years, Wasps seemed to know exactly how to play the system in front of them, and timed their run-in to perfection. I don't believe for one moment that was pure luck!
Just one point WRT The Championship final. AFAIK, it was not won on the "cabbage patch" but in a two leg final, home and away for the two teams. If anything, it makes your post even more relevant since both teams had a chance on their own patch to stake their claim for a seat at the top table.London Welsh must have done it the best!
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