The End of an Era

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I find it hard to be diplomatic when I hear of the people who publicly state that they will no longer be Wasps supporters because
of the 80 mile move north, instead I view them as petulant individuals who have thrown their toys out of the pram because they havent got their own way and dont give a stuff about Wasps financial situation in the professional game.

To a point I understand what you're saying. But did the decision to move not upset you at all? For me my head says it's a great move, my heart isn't so sure.

I think that is a really nicely written piece.

Well said VV

Martin - the words of someone who has been taught to be cautious!!

Agree that it's a nicely written piece, but I also agree with coddy - I just don't understand the people that say they won't follow Wasps any more just because they can't go to live matches. There are so many people that still watch/support a team even though they don't go to matches. It just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, it hurt that they moved so far, but why wouldn't you continue to keep up with a club that you have followed for so many years? My Dad is a West Ham supporter, but has only ever been to one match in the 40+ years he's followed them. That doesn't stop him keeping up with all the scores and the forums, celebrating the wins and commiserating the losses, like he does with Wasps and this forum. Ironically, he'll probably start going to more Hammers matches now that Wasps have moved. Just because he will no longer be a STH at Wasps, doesn't mean he'll stop supporting them, and I don't see why it should stop anyone supporting them. If you can give them up so easily now, were you ever bothered that much about them in the first place?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:16:14:21:38 by Bandy.

I don't understand it either...but I'm not going to beat myself or anyone else up about it. Each to their own. I respect everyone's choices as I expect others to respect mine.

Nice piece VV.

The majority of Wasps fans/supporters do not watch Live Rugby on a regular basis, hence the 6000 average home crowd this year. They only turn out for big games at Twickers.....

I don't blame anyone for not going to Coventry, it does surprise me that they will turn their backs on Wasps altogether effectively cutting off their noses.....

Professional rugby is a business why should owners gamble 3 million a year in the hope that one day !!!!!

Disappointed that i will miss some of the old faces in future but
Personally I don't see what else I can do.

The owners and club have made a decision each and everyone else has to do the same...


I hope that you all make the right decision for you after long careful thought.....

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

Don't forget...you can always change your mind too! It's not a one way street. ;-)

Ha ha. What a load of deluded fools. Newsflash. The club doesn't give a sh*t about you or any of the existing supporters. You are entirely expendable. When it came to weighing up the importance of getting a cut price stadium in Coventry and or the interests of the existing supporters the supporters came a distant second if they were even considered at all.

I and many other supporters starting supporting Wasps because they were a London club. Geographical location was important and was the defining reason why many starting supporting the club in the first place. Geographic location was also key in how the culture of the club developed and the identity it has today.

The move to Coventry could well be a roaring success but why would I or any other long term London based supporter care? If I wanted to support a rugby club that owned its own stadium in the Midlands and was successful on the pitch I would already support Leicester or Northampton. Leicester and Northampton are probably as easy to get on public transport from London than Coventry is anyway!

As the rugby talent of London now gravitates towards Quins and Saracens the relevance of supporting Wasps will cease to exist. Wasps used to show case the best talent from London and the South East but not any more.

Its game over folks. If you want to wilfully delude yourselves you are only putting off the inevitable. In 5 years time the players and supporters will predominately come from the Midlands and the club will be completely different.

We're all Dooooommmmedddddddd !!

I can't understand it either. I was a STH at Loftus Road but the move to HW meant I couldn't continue as such at AP. Selective games only. Also, though I am retired, a part-time job for the last four years has intruded. I'll still be a Wasps fan and will try to get to the occasional game at Coventry. Can't imagine changing. My wife would like to move to France, I've said OK, but wherever we go, there must be a good rugby side! If we actually go I might become a STH there. Still try to keep up with Wasps tho'.

BTW. Nice piece VV.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Just out of interest Beckenham B. who do you follow ?
Why not join me on the coach trip I'm trying to arrange for the Harlequins game..

If I get the vote from the other DWs on the coach I might even bring you back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:16:15:07:55 by greenwood.

The move to Coventry could well be a roaring success but why would I or any other long term London based supporter care?..............As the rugby talent of London now gravitates towards Quins and Saracens the relevance of supporting Wasps will cease to exist.

Well why don't you just cease the permanent whine and just b*gger off to your b*m chums at the Stoop or Allianz Park?

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Thanks chaps. If you thought it was a nice piece can you do something for me?

If you have a twitter or Facebook account could you share the link? The more people that view it, the more advertising revenue we get, and it all goes directly to charity.

BB...you are right. So what?

I will give you my take on it and this is the LAST time I will post on the subject.

I am STILL a Wasp fan. I am not going to support Quins or Irish or any other Prem team - I couldn't.

I COULD travel to Coventry, it would be a pain but I could. However, I will NOT. I will not put a penny into Coventry Wasps as they will be very shortly.

I supported Wasps because they were a London Club and that is where my family took me. I am proud that they were a London club with all the history that went with it.

I do NOT believe that moving to Coventry was the only option so I feel betrayed by the management NOT the players or the other supporters.

Can I see why people are following them to Coventry ?. Well yes I can certainly see why people who started following Wasps in Wycombe would. The Londoners I'm not so sure why they would want to do that. But its their decision. Its just something in my heart I can't do.

As BB says, if I wanted to support a Midlands club I would have picked Saints, Tigers or Worc.

Right that is it on the subject and I hope to see some of you at the Quins v Wasps Euro game.

ps Coddy - other people have views and care as as well.

VV - done

With you Hangover..

Hangover - I can understand your position. It's those who say they are not going to follow / support the club at all that I find puzzling...but then again they haven't tried to stop supporting yet. It may be harder to do than say.

That said...each makes their own decisions and just because I don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't right for them. I am sure others will find my position just as odd.

I won't tell anyone their decision is wrong / deluded / stupid etc. Everyone has their reasons, and it's not like anyone is bound to the decision they make now.

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RossM
The move to Coventry could well be a roaring success but why would I or any other long term London based supporter care?..............As the rugby talent of London now gravitates towards Quins and Saracens the relevance of supporting Wasps will cease to exist.
Well why don't you just cease the permanent whine and just b*gger off to your b*m chums at the Stoop or Allianz Park?

Why? Because other people keep dredging up the subject and calling people who are very unhappy with the move to Coventry as "selfish" or "petulant". Sorry but I am not having that at all. Many London based supporters have spent huge amounts of their time and thousands of pounds watching Wasps over the years and to call them selfish because the club they have supported decides to up sticks and move to a different part of the country is out of order.

Loyalty is a two way concept. You can't expect loyalty if it isn't reciprocated in return. The loyalty of the existing London based supporters has not been reciprocated. The club knows that and frankly doesn't even care. It knows that the move to Coventry can be a success even if not a single existing season ticket holder from Adams Park becomes a season ticket holder in Coventry. In the grand scheme of things the current supporters don't matter. The sooner people realise that the better. All the efforts to placate the current supporters are just a fluffy PR exercise.

Supporting the club from afar and on TV would be the soft option. You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan".

From now on I will probably go and watch 4 or 5 big games at the Stoop or Barnet each year as I genuinely enjoy watching rugby in the flesh but I won't be supporting a new club. That would be a step too far.

BB, you are entitled to express your opinion, but it is not going to influence the minds of those of us, who have chosen to continue the journey.

If you are so entrenched in your position then why not keep your views to yourself and let the sane people who frequent this board, discuss the pleasantries of the green and pleasant land, north of Banbury.

Well I will miss Hangover and his bowler and respect his views, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. I hope to make it to the stoop for the second time this season. It's also true that for some following Wasps to Coventry may not work in the long term, but if you don't give it a try you will never know.

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

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Heathen
BB, you are entitled to express your opinion, but it is not going to influence the minds of those of us, who have chosen to continue the journey.
If you are so entrenched in your position then why not keep your views to yourself and let the sane people who frequent this board, discuss the pleasantries of the green and pleasant land, north of Banbury.

Who are you again? Unless you are a moderator with the power to ban me pipe down. If people keep attacking those supporters who are very unhappy with the move then I will defend them.

You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan".

Now that really is a complete load of bollox.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

But it supports his argument so it must be true !!

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

Quote:

Rifleman Harris
Hangover - I can understand your position. It's those who say they are not going to follow / support the club at all that I find puzzling...but then again they haven't tried to stop supporting yet. It may be harder to do than say.
That said...each makes their own decisions and just because I don't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't right for them. I am sure others will find my position just as odd.

I won't tell anyone their decision is wrong / deluded / stupid etc. Everyone has their reasons, and it's not like anyone is bound to the decision they make now.

Pretty straight forward actually. You start supporting Wasps because they are a London rugby club with local players from London and the South East. The club then moves to the Midlands and stops being the club that you have supported for over 20 years.

As I have said. The loyalty of the London based supporters has not been reciprocated. Remaining a casual supporter watching on TV and the odd away game would be the easy option but it would be a hollow experience. An unsuccessful attempt at self delusion. The club obviously doesn't care about its existing supporters so why should the existing supporters care about the club?

Just so they can watch their favourite players on BT Sport every weekend playing 100 miles away?

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Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Heathen
BB, you are entitled to express your opinion, but it is not going to influence the minds of those of us, who have chosen to continue the journey.
If you are so entrenched in your position then why not keep your views to yourself and let the sane people who frequent this board, discuss the pleasantries of the green and pleasant land, north of Banbury.

Who are you again? Unless you are a moderator with the power to ban me pipe down. If people keep attacking those supporters who are very unhappy with the move then I will defend them.

Heathen, I'll make you a moderator if you promise to ban him

BB, just bear in mind there is a difference between defending a point of view, and attacking an opposing one.

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Beckenham Bandit
Pretty straight forward actually. You start supporting Wasps because they are a London rugby club with local players from London and the South East. The club then moves to the Midlands and stops being the club that you have supported for over 20 years.

You seem to think everyone chose the club because they were from London. I certainly didn't. I chose the club because of the way they played rugby, the fact that my old school strip was black and gold hoops, and the fact that LBND was part of it. None of that changes because of their location.

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As I have said. The loyalty of the London based supporters has not been reciprocated. Remaining a casual supporter watching on TV and the odd away game would be the easy option but it would be a hollow experience. An unsuccessful attempt at self delusion. The club obviously doesn't care about its existing supporters so why should the existing supporters care about the club?
Just so they can watch their favourite players on BT Sport every weekend playing 100 miles away?

Do you watch every international match in the flesh? Yet I suspect you still support the team?

Hangover, Out of interest why was the move to Wycombe ok? that's what did for me as a 'proper' fan. Growing up in North West London that was the move for me that initially broke any local fan roots the club had with it supporters. The academy links and training ground remained in london but that had very little to do with most fans. Why weren't you betrayed then?

BB - FWIW I didn't support Wasps because they were London based, so you argument falls flat.

I don't know why you should think a professional organisation should show any loyalty to the fans. They are there to ensure the longevity of the team. The wishes of the fans is secondary. If they feel they can build a bigger fanbase elsewhere then they will do that (and I think they will). I would have thought you would have understood that after all your spoutings about forming a franchise system to ringfence the AP...or does that not support your latest ramblings?

Quote:

RossM
You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan".
Now that really is a complete load of bollox.

Why is it b*llocks? The more time and money you invest in something the more you care about it. It is pretty straight forward. During the times of my life where I haven't regularly attended Wasps games, especially when I was at University and when I was scrabbling about trying to start a career, I found that though I still had a interest I cared far less about Wasps' fortunes. The emotional investment and connection just wasn't there. I had other things that were much more important going on in my life.

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit
Why is it b*llocks? The more time and money you invest in something the more you care about it. It is pretty straight forward. During the times of my life where I haven't regularly attended Wasps games, especially when I was at University and when I was scrabbling about trying to start a career, I found that though I still had a interest I cared far less about Wasps' fortunes. The emotional investment and connection just wasn't there. I had other things that were much more important going on in my life.

And your experience in life leads you to think that every single person feels the same way you do?

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Vespulavulgaris

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Heathen
BB, you are entitled to express your opinion, but it is not going to influence the minds of those of us, who have chosen to continue the journey.
If you are so entrenched in your position then why not keep your views to yourself and let the sane people who frequent this board, discuss the pleasantries of the green and pleasant land, north of Banbury.

Who are you again? Unless you are a moderator with the power to ban me pipe down. If people keep attacking those supporters who are very unhappy with the move then I will defend them.

Heathen, I'll make you a moderator if you promise to ban him

BB, just bear in mind there is a difference between defending a point of view, and attacking an opposing one.

I wasn't the one who started attacking people on this thread. It was the pro Coventry mob that was doing that by calling people unhappy with the move to Coventry as petulant and selfish.

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Beckenham Bandit
I wasn't the one who started attacking people on this thread. It was the pro Coventry mob that was doing that by calling people unhappy with the move to Coventry as petulant and selfish.

I guess it could be a complement, but I don't think it's really fair to call Coddy a mob.

The whole point of this thread is that it is perfectly possible to have one point of view and understand a different one. That the saddest thing about this whole relocation is the division it has caused amongst the fans.

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Vespulavulgaris

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Beckenham Bandit
Pretty straight forward actually. You start supporting Wasps because they are a London rugby club with local players from London and the South East. The club then moves to the Midlands and stops being the club that you have supported for over 20 years.

You seem to think everyone chose the club because they were from London. I certainly didn't. I chose the club because of the way they played rugby, the fact that my old school strip was black and gold hoops, and the fact that LBND was part of it. None of that changes because of their location.

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As I have said. The loyalty of the London based supporters has not been reciprocated. Remaining a casual supporter watching on TV and the odd away game would be the easy option but it would be a hollow experience. An unsuccessful attempt at self delusion. The club obviously doesn't care about its existing supporters so why should the existing supporters care about the club?
Just so they can watch their favourite players on BT Sport every weekend playing 100 miles away?

Do you watch every international match in the flesh? Yet I suspect you still support the team?

When I did I say that "everyone" supported Wasps because they were a London club? You made that up in some sort of straw man argument. Of course not everyone started to support Wasps because they were a London based club but a great many did.

I would guess that the vast majority of London based supporters started supporting the club because it was within an easy hour's commute to Sudbury or Loftus Road. The vast majority of supporters who started supporting the club in Wycombe would have been within an easy hour's commute to Adams Park.

Many London based supporters remained loyal because Adams Park was commutable from West London and they had the expectation, however vain, that the club would move back to London at some stage.

The location of where the club plays its home games has always and will always be important. In 5 years time the vast majority of Wasps supporters will live within an hour's commute of the Ricoh Stadium.

Quote:

The whole point of this thread is that it is perfectly possible to have one point of view and understand a different one.

Vespulavulgaris if you believe BB will even understand that you are dreaming I'm afraid

Once a Wasp, always a Wasp? The move to Coventry is difficult. I've supported Wasps for over 50 years, and in the amateur days I played for one of their lesser sides. The roots of my support go down into my childhood in north west London. As an adult I moved away, but Wasps, although for years of no fixed abode, tried to remain true to their London roots, even if Adams Park was stretching a point. My support therefore remained unquestioned. However Wasps now are uprooting. I could still travel, I've seen them twice at the Ricoh before, but now they will become a Midlands club, and for me that changes something in the essence Wasps. I will not be able to turn off my support like a tap but I think the club and I will inevitably become slowly estranged. I don't attribute blame for this, nor do I criticise those who think differently, but sadly for me I think this the beginning of the end, and I, at least for a while, will become a rugby supporter without a club. Sad, but also slightly worrying - the easiest ground for me to get to is the Rec.....

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Beckenham Bandit
a great many did.

How many? Come on BB, you accuse other people of not being accurate and then throw around vague terms like this.

Facts facts facts! Give us some firm numbers.

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Rifleman Harris
BB - FWIW I didn't support Wasps because they were London based, so you argument falls flat.
I don't know why you should think a professional organisation should show any loyalty to the fans. They are there to ensure the longevity of the team. The wishes of the fans is secondary. If they feel they can build a bigger fanbase elsewhere then they will do that (and I think they will). I would have thought you would have understood that after all your spoutings about forming a franchise system to ringfence the AP...or does that not support your latest ramblings?

To be honest I don't really care why you started supporting Wasps. You said that you found it puzzling why anyone could stop supporting Wasps because of the move to Coventry. I have just explained that a great many supporters started supporting the club because it was in London and easily commutable on the London transport network. The location of the club was a key reason for them supporting the club in the first place.

Out of interest where were you living then you first started supporting the club? Within an easy commute of the home ground maybe?

Why should a professional sports club show loyalty to its customers? Because it expects economically irrational loyalty from those very same customers in return. Again pretty straight forward to anyone with half a brain. Without the loyalty of its customers a professional sports club has no raison d'etre. It has no one to pay the players or coaches and no one which potential sponsors can sell their goods and services to.

If Wasps couldn't make being a Premiership rugby club in London or the Home Counties work then they had two options. Manage decline to semi pro or amateur status in the National Leagues or move lock stock and barrel to part of the country where they could own their own stadium. With the agreement of the RFU and Premier Rugby they chose to move. Fair enough but they can't carry on like nothing has changed. They can't reasonably expect to claim the history and the heritage of Wasps FC and when the club was based at Twyford Avenue whilst moving 100 miles away. Everything has and will change. The players, the supporters and the club's culture.

It would have been much more honest and open if they did what MK Dons have done and change the team's name and identity to something more appropriate after the move and make a clean break with the past. Because that is what the move to Coventry is. A massive break with the past and everything that entails.

BdeB - I was not happy with the Wycombe move at all. But at the time I was told it was a temporary thing. I have been so looking forward to the move back to London (ish) and when Richardson took over and said the long term goal was to get back within the M25 I believed it and was very happy. I have actually moved from Watford to near Dunstable so it was always going to be a bit of a pain to travel to London but I still welcomed that move back to our heartland. Now .........

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Vespulavulgaris

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Beckenham Bandit
a great many did.

How many? Come on BB, you accuse other people of not being accurate and then throw around vague terms like this.

Facts facts facts! Give us some firm numbers.

Lots of them. Just as many of the supporters who started supporting Wasps at Adams Park did so because of its location.

What were the figures for Adams Park again? 80% of the season ticket holders lived within 30 miles of the stadium? Something like that. I think you will find that the vast majority of season ticket holders at any professional sports club will live within an easy commute of the home ground. That is a pretty basic.

And yet another thread is hijacked by the ultimate bore.

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Beckenham Bandit
..You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan"....

You go girl!

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Chilham

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Beckenham Bandit
..You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan"....

You go girl!

I think BB is providing an accurate description of himself here

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

Quote:

Hangover
BdeB - I was not happy with the Wycombe move at all. But at the time I was told it was a temporary thing. I have been so looking forward to the move back to London (ish) and when Richardson took over and said the long term goal was to get back within the M25 I believed it and was very happy. I have actually moved from Watford to near Dunstable so it was always going to be a bit of a pain to travel to London but I still welcomed that move back to our heartland. Now .........

Hangover - Dunstable to the Ricoh is a breeze

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ricohchezwasp

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Chilham

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Beckenham Bandit
..You can't really be a active supporter and genuinely care about a professional sports team unless you regularly attend homes games. The emotional connection just isn't there. I have always found that the less you watch a team live in the flesh the less you care about them. If you can't make it to home games regularly on a long term basis you can't really be a proper "fan"....

You go girl!

I think BB is providing an accurate description of himself here

Well that is just my opinion. If you aren't spending a lot of your own time and money actively following a club and handing over a lot of money in the process and investing a lot of emotional energy into it why would you really care that much? It all seems a bit hollow and put on to be honest.

I look on in bemusement at people in pubs getting irate watching Premiership football teams that they have never even seen live before. Again why would you really care that much when you have so little stake in it?

So you are not by definition a proper fan!

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

BB,

I "support" the Fremantle Dockers Aussie Rules team. I have no links to the city of Fremantle, or Western Australia. I have never been to a match (or any Aussie Rules match for that matter) or even to the country. I own several bits of merchandise brought by a friend who works in Perth. Throughout the Summer, much to the amusement of my housemates I get up at 4.30am to watch matches if they are on ESPN/BT. I cried when they lost the 2013 Grand Final.

Does the fact that I've never seen them play mean I'm not a true supporter?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:16:19:20:22 by Shrek Wasp.

For what it's worth...I hope no one has any doubts about how committed to Wasps Sarah and I are. We got married at the ground. For god's sake, I bought the licence for Wasps so that we COULD get married at the ground.

But..money reared it's ugly head. Not Wasps. Us. I had huge debts from the messiest divorce on the planet before I met Sarah. So we went to work in Dubai so we could pay them off. Couldn't figure a way paying them with 40% tax in the UK, so had to leave or go bankrupt.

So we don't go to Wasps games any more. Would anyone like to suggest we are not 'real' supporters?

Of course you can be fans and not go, or only go on special occasions. We both miss it with every bone of our bodies; we watch every televised game, coloured up still, we listen on radio when it's not on tv. It's not the same but you learn when you are about 10 that you can't have everything in life. It's a bummer.

Get over it, and stay a Wasps fan.

Pete
One of my best memories at Adams Park, and we thumped Sarries by 45-??too. still trying to persuade Michelle to try Dubai soon and visit our Middle East supporters club, checking out cruises in the area
Cheers R

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:16:19:47:40 by ricohchezwasp.

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ricohchezwasp
So you are not by definition a proper fan!

Not any more no. I was when I was going to 5 or 6 home games a season and 3 or 4 away games a season. I spent a lot of time and money following Wasps when the rational thing for me to do was to go and get a season ticket at Harlequins. It would have cost me about the same and it would have been much more convenient to do so. However I was loyal and watching Wasps meant something to me.

As I said. During the periods of my life when I didn't watch Wasps a lot live there successes or otherwise had a lot less emotional impact on me. I think that is only natural and chimes with the thoughts of the football season ticket holders I know.

Being a "TV only" supporter rings hollow with me I am afraid. As it would with many who appreciating watching live sport.

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Shrek Wasp
BB,
I "support" the Fremantle Dockers Aussie Rules team. I have no links to the city of Fremantle, or Western Australia. I have never been to a match (or any Aussie Rules match for that matter) or even to the country. I own several bits of merchandise brought by a friend who works in Perth. Throughout the Summer, much to the amusement of my housemates I get up at 4.30am to watch matches if they are on ESPN/BT. I cried when they lost the 2013 Grand Final.

Does the fact that I've never seen them play mean I'm not a true supporter?

See I just don't understand that. Don't you have more important and more relevant things to get emotionally involved with in your life?

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Causeway Pete.
For what it's worth...I hope no one has any doubts about how committed to Wasps Sarah and I are. We got married at the ground. For god's sake, I bought the licence for Wasps so that we COULD get married at the ground.
But..money reared it's ugly head. Not Wasps. Us. I had huge debts from the messiest divorce on the planet before I met Sarah. So we went to work in Dubai so we could pay them off. Couldn't figure a way paying them with 40% tax in the UK, so had to leave or go bankrupt.

So we don't go to Wasps games any more. Would anyone like to suggest we are not 'real' supporters?

Of course you can be fans and not go, or only go on special occasions. We both miss it with every bone of our bodies; we watch every televised game, coloured up still, we listen on radio when it's not on tv. It's not the same but you learn when you are about 10 that you can't have everything in life. It's a bummer.

Get over it, and stay a Wasps fan.

Well if you are living abroad it is hardly surprising you can't go and watch home games is it. Are you planning to be a regular attender on your return to the UK? I imagine you would be.

Life takes us in all different directions but I stand by my comments. The more money and time I have invested in Wasps the more I have cared about them. The less time and money the less I have cared about them.

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Beckenham Bandit
Well that is just my opinion. If you aren't spending a lot of your own time and money actively following a club and handing over a lot of money in the process and investing a lot of emotional energy into it why would you really care that much? It all seems a bit hollow and put on to be honest.
I look on in bemusement at people in pubs getting irate watching Premiership football teams that they have never even seen live before. Again why would you really care that much when you have so little stake in it?

So let me see if I've got this straight now.

People who don't spend money going to live matches have no emotional attachment to the club.

and

You don't understand how so many people who don't spend money going to live matches have emotional attachment to their club.

So basically you can't understand a point of view other than your own, so it can't exist.

It's called "being a supporter".

It's about showing a passion for a team,

It's about interacting in a encouraging and polite manner with other supporters who share your passion, rather than being insulting and abusive to anyone who disagrees with you, or suggesting they don't have anything important in their lives.

It's about backing your team's players rather than abusing them.

It's about being part of a camaraderie and a global family.

It's not surprising you don't understand it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:16:20:14:21 by Shrek Wasp.

I went to my first Wasps game in 2003 and became a season ticket holder the following season. I lived in Wycombe at the time. I moved to Princes Risborough and still went. I moved to Bicester and still went. Then work, golf, motorbikes and eventually kids got in the way. Did that make me any less emotionally involved? Did it @#$%&.

Both my daughters were born 5 minutes from London Welsh's ground but the only team they will support there is Wasps.

I do understand the I won't go, I just can't get the I won't support.

It doesn't affect me like it does others as it's probably as equal a journey as going to AP, but I still don't get it. But then I have been supporting Liverpool since I was 4. I wasn't born there and neither were my parents but don't tell me I am not emotionally involved with them. The domestics caused by my shouting at the telly for both them and Wasps speak volumes of how much I care.

Everyone entitled to their own opinion, some I get, some I don't just don't ram yours down my throat, repeatedly. Yes you!

I'm just grateful that when I moved away from my family they still supported me, even if they didn't visit as often as before.

VV great article.

It's a shame the comments got hijacked but lets talk about real fans.

I'm a Wasps STH and started following the club when they moved to Wycombe when by brother took me to a game in their first season at AP. He already supported Wasps as he grew up in West London.
I will be going to Coventry but I fully respect the supports who cannot go but as other have said, it's hard to imagine people stopping supporting the club altogether as you can still be a fan from afar.

I'm an Arsenal supporter but very rarely go to matches but follow all the games on Twitter/TV etc. I'm a McClaren fan but rarely go to a GP and I'm an Oakland Raiders fan and I've never been to Oakland.

Quote:

Vespulavulgaris
...So basically you can't understand a point of view other than your own, so it can't exist.

Seems like it. After all, BB went to five or six home matches and, wait for it, three or four away games a season. Now that's what I call a "real" supporter. Dedication eh? Some of us can only stand back in admiration.

I started supporting Wasps in 1996 because my best mate did. He started supporting Wasps because they best the other team in the match they want to watch. I've moved around and still got your matches when I could and will continue to do so to meet and be sociable with all the good friends I've made over the years.

Incidentally it is the same distance from AP to The Ricoh as it was for me to get to AP when I lived in Brighton, 82 miles. Piece of cake, a long day out, but worthwhile.

ALLEZ WASPS

Cheers

Rick


@W2APS on twitter, the chap with the banners and flags.

Quote:

Shrek Wasp
It's called "being a supporter".
It's about showing a passion for a team,

It's about interacting in a encouraging and polite manner with other supporters who share your passion, rather than being insulting and abusive to anyone who disagrees with you, or suggesting they don't have anything important in their lives.

It's about backing your team's players rather than abusing them.

It's about being part of a camaraderie and a global family.

It's not surprising you don't understand it.

Really? I would say showing passion for your team is by going to watch them play in the flesh, spending a considerable amount of your own time and money to do so and shouting yourself hoarse in supporting them.

I really can't see how you can get that involved watching a sport in a country 10,000 miles that you have never been to before supporting a club in a town that you have never been too before. It is like a Chinese Manchester Utd fan. Why do you care?

I would like to apologise for my "petulant" comment earlier in this thread as on reflection it was over the top.

I would however like to emphasise my disappointment in the supporters whose allegiance to Wasps was so thin that they can no longer call Wasps their team just because they have moved further away from where they live.

Quote:

Mark79
I went to my first Wasps game in 2003 and became a season ticket holder the following season. I lived in Wycombe at the time. I moved to Princes Risborough and still went. I moved to Bicester and still went. Then work, golf, motorbikes and eventually kids got in the way. Did that make me any less emotionally involved? Did it @#$%&.
Both my daughters were born 5 minutes from London Welsh's ground but the only team they will support there is Wasps.

I do understand the I won't go, I just can't get the I won't support.

It doesn't affect me like it does others as it's probably as equal a journey as going to AP, but I still don't get it. But then I have been supporting Liverpool since I was 4. I wasn't born there and neither were my parents but don't tell me I am not emotionally involved with them. The domestics caused by my shouting at the telly for both them and Wasps speak volumes of how much I care.

Everyone entitled to their own opinion, some I get, some I don't just don't ram yours down my throat, repeatedly. Yes you!

I'm just grateful that when I moved away from my family they still supported me, even if they didn't visit as often as before.

Well thank you for just proving my point. If you prioritised playing golf and riding motorbikes over going to watch Wasps play then you obviously couldn't have cared that much. If you had done you would have made the time.

In terms of Liverpool really why do you care? Southerners supporting Northern football teams that they have little connection to has always baffled me. Even South Londoners supporting Arsenal and Tottenham I find hard to understand. It is like customers having "brand loyalty" to multinational companies that don't give a sh*t about them and are just after their money.

It is similar to people developing emotional attachments to fictional characters in literature or soap operas. Why do people care? Surely they have something else more worthwhile in their lives to invest their emotional energy in. Something that requires genuine effort and active participation.

Quote:

Vespulavulgaris
To a point I understand what you're saying. But did the decision to move not upset you at all? For me my head says it's a great move, my heart isn't so sure.

No it didn't, where my team play isn't overly important to me, how they play on the other hand is more so.

And yes good piece, I'm glad to see it's got so many responses.

Quote:

coddy
I would like to apologise for my "petulant" comment earlier in this thread as on reflection it was over the top.
I would however like to emphasise my disappointment in the supporters whose allegiance to Wasps was so thin that they can no longer call Wasps their team just because they have moved further away from where they live.

For the final time it is not about moving away from where people live it is about the club moving away from where it belongs. Lots of the supporters started supporting the club because of its location. In London. In Wycombe in the last 12 years. The club was a London club 120 years before I was born. It is the club that has moved away and shown disloyalty not the supporters who are unhappy with the move.

It is a point of principle not personal convenience.

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Shrek Wasp
It's called "being a supporter".
It's about showing a passion for a team,

It's about interacting in a encouraging and polite manner with other supporters who share your passion, rather than being insulting and abusive to anyone who disagrees with you, or suggesting they don't have anything important in their lives.

It's about backing your team's players rather than abusing them.

It's about being part of a camaraderie and a global family.

It's not surprising you don't understand it.

Really? I would say showing passion for your team is by going to watch them play in the flesh, spending a considerable amount of your own time and money to do so and shouting yourself hoarse in supporting them.

I really can't see how you can get that involved watching a sport in a country 10,000 miles that you have never been to before supporting a club in a town that you have never been too before. It is like a Chinese Manchester Utd fan. Why do you care?

Because they are my team.

Quote:

Chilham

Quote:

Vespulavulgaris
...So basically you can't understand a point of view other than your own, so it can't exist.

Seems like it. After all, BB went to five or six home matches and, wait for it, three or four away games a season. Now that's what I call a "real" supporter. Dedication eh? Some of us can only stand back in admiration.

Well it might be news to you but I was in the same boat as a lot of the committed London supporters. Facing a 4 or 5 hour round to Adams Park and back buying a season ticket wasn't particularly feasible. Also as I enjoyed going on regular away trips to the proper provincial rugby grounds and the odd European match it was really a choice between a season ticket and the away trips and the away trips won out. Move flexible and a better quality of entertainment.

That has been about as much of a commitment as I could make to the club for the last 6 or 7 years. More of a commitment in time and effort than many season ticket holders who live close to Wycombe I would imagine.

London Wasps Holdings limited i.e. Wasps the professional rugby club do not belong anywhere. It will be based wherever it is best for a professional rugby club business to thrive.

Wasps FC belong to London. They are the club that was founded in 1867.

The professional club were formed in the 1996/7 season and have played for more seasons out of London than they did within it.

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

That has been about as much of a commitment as I could make to the club for the last 6 or 7 years. More of a commitment in time and effort than many season ticket holders who live close to Wycombe I would imagine.

BB - You seem to have a very good imagination, many of your posts seems to originate from it !

All this cr*p from BBB who told me last week, in the thread about Castro vs Cockers, that Life isn't so Black and White! There is often no logic why people support the teams they do. My daughter has "supported" Aston Villa from the time she was a schoolgirl and, being the doting dad, I used to take her to Villa Park a couple of times a season, as well as to a couple of Villa "away" games closer to home.

Tell her that she's not a real supporter!

Quote:

Shrek Wasp

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Shrek Wasp
It's called "being a supporter".
It's about showing a passion for a team,

It's about interacting in a encouraging and polite manner with other supporters who share your passion, rather than being insulting and abusive to anyone who disagrees with you, or suggesting they don't have anything important in their lives.

It's about backing your team's players rather than abusing them.

It's about being part of a camaraderie and a global family.

It's not surprising you don't understand it.

Really? I would say showing passion for your team is by going to watch them play in the flesh, spending a considerable amount of your own time and money to do so and shouting yourself hoarse in supporting them.

I really can't see how you can get that involved watching a sport in a country 10,000 miles that you have never been to before supporting a club in a town that you have never been too before. It is like a Chinese Manchester Utd fan. Why do you care?

Because they are my team.

Yes but why do you care? I nominally support the Waikato Chiefs and the New York Mets because of familial connections, I have actually been to the home games of both teams, and I want them to do well but I have little or no emotional or financial stake in them. I usually watch most of the Chiefs games on TV but I really can't get that involved.

As I said without a significant commitment of time and energy I just can't be that het up about them. I have every right to be a Crystal Palace fan but again with only going to 1 or 2 games a season, if that, their trials and tribulations are difficult to get entangled with. If I went every week I am sure I would be f-ing and blinding with the rest of them.

Quote:

Heathen
London Wasps Holdings limited i.e. Wasps the professional rugby club do not belong anywhere. It will be based wherever it is best for a professional rugby club business to thrive.
Wasps FC belong to London. They are the club that was founded in 1867.

The professional club were formed in the 1996/7 season and have played for more seasons out of London than they did within it.

Well the clue is in the name. LONDON Wasps Holdings limited. I started supporting Wasps in 1992/3 before anyone in the Northern Hemisphere had even thought of professionalism. The professional club inherited its league position, players and coaches, identity and supporters from the original club. If the professional club had started from scratch or actively tried to disavow any continuity and links with the original amateur club like Newcastle Falcons did with Gosforth then you might have a point. However the professional Wasps club didn't. It traded off the continuity and history of the amateur club however disingenuous that was, which I don't think it was given the continuing close links between the two. Wasps RFC training at the FC's home ground, the Football Club bailing the professionals out in their hour of need and the sharing of committee members and directors.

If you look on Wasps RFC's website they even claim the 1989/90 League title as their own when strictly it isn't.

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Shrek Wasp

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Shrek Wasp
It's called "being a supporter".
It's about showing a passion for a team,

It's about interacting in a encouraging and polite manner with other supporters who share your passion, rather than being insulting and abusive to anyone who disagrees with you, or suggesting they don't have anything important in their lives.

It's about backing your team's players rather than abusing them.

It's about being part of a camaraderie and a global family.

It's not surprising you don't understand it.

Really? I would say showing passion for your team is by going to watch them play in the flesh, spending a considerable amount of your own time and money to do so and shouting yourself hoarse in supporting them.

I really can't see how you can get that involved watching a sport in a country 10,000 miles that you have never been to before supporting a club in a town that you have never been too before. It is like a Chinese Manchester Utd fan. Why do you care?

Because they are my team.

Yes but why do you care? I nominally support the Waikato Chiefs and the New York Mets because of familial connections, I have actually been to the home games of both teams, and I want them to do well but I have little or no emotional or financial stake in them. I usually watch most of the Chiefs games on TV but I really can't get that involved.

As I said without a significant commitment of time and energy I just can't be that het up about them. I have every right to be a Crystal Palace fan but again with only going to 1 or 2 games a season, if that, their trials and tribulations are difficult to get entangled with. If I went every week I am sure I would be f-ing and blinding with the rest of them.

Do I need a reason?

They are the team I've chosen and therefore the team I follow. We all have different definitions of what makes a supporter. For me it's supporting a team no matter what, no matter whether you can watch them week in week out, or by watching the occasional match on TV and via social media. It's about building friendships along the way, like the Dockers fans from Perth, in the UK on holiday that I'm meeting up with in London next week.

If you wish to support Wasps by critising every decision the people who have invested their own money in the club make, based on knowing a heck of a lot more than you ever will & abusing players and supporters that's your call. It doesn't make anyone who channels their support in a different way wrong.

You need to respect other people's decisions and move on. Life is too short to be an angry bitter internet troll.

Who are you to tell people what is relevant or worthwhile to do with their own lives? Who are you to decide what they should or shouldn't be passionate about IN THEIR OWN LIVES? If someone is emotionally involved with a team in any way whatsoever, from whatever avenue it's arrived, then they are a supporter. There is nothing more to it. If they feel they a supporter of a club, they are a supporter of the club. And no-one can change that. Not even dark magic from that most revered of counties, Kent.

Beckenham - the bore to end all bores.

Quote:

Causeway Pete.
For what it's worth...I hope no one has any doubts about how committed to Wasps Sarah and I are. We got married at the ground. For god's sake, I bought the licence for Wasps so that we COULD get married at the ground.
But..money reared it's ugly head. Not Wasps. Us. I had huge debts from the messiest divorce on the planet before I met Sarah. So we went to work in Dubai so we could pay them off. Couldn't figure a way paying them with 40% tax in the UK, so had to leave or go bankrupt.

So we don't go to Wasps games any more. Would anyone like to suggest we are not 'real' supporters?

Of course you can be fans and not go, or only go on special occasions. We both miss it with every bone of our bodies; we watch every televised game, coloured up still, we listen on radio when it's not on tv. It's not the same but you learn when you are about 10 that you can't have everything in life. It's a bummer.

Get over it, and stay a Wasps fan.

ukms - physically, yup not too bad compared to some - mentally impossible I'm afraid.

Quote:

Hangover
I will give you my take on it and this is the LAST time I will post on the subject.
I am STILL a Wasp fan. I am not going to support Quins or Irish or any other Prem team - I couldn't.

I COULD travel to Coventry, it would be a pain but I could. However, I will NOT. I will not put a penny into Coventry Wasps as they will be very shortly.

I supported Wasps because they were a London Club and that is where my family took me. I am proud that they were a London club with all the history that went with it.

I do NOT believe that moving to Coventry was the only option so I feel betrayed by the management NOT the players or the other supporters.

Can I see why people are following them to Coventry ?. Well yes I can certainly see why people who started following Wasps in Wycombe would. The Londoners I'm not so sure why they would want to do that. But its their decision. Its just something in my heart I can't do.

As BB says, if I wanted to support a Midlands club I would have picked Saints, Tigers or Worc.

Right that is it on the subject and I hope to see some of you at the Quins v Wasps Euro game.

ps Coddy - other people have views and care as as well.

Hangover,I agree with every word of this.

It's tiresome that BB(who actually speaks a lot of sense on this) has turned the debate into being about who is a real supporter and who is not.

I support the Washington Redskins, I've seen them live once. I still call myself a fan as a I follow the results.

But a vast majority of us started supporting Wasps because we could see them live.Not every week but on a regular basis.

When we played in London, I had a season ticket. And ,for a few years in Wycombe until personal circumstances changed.. But Coventry is another thing altogether.

I'll still be a Wasps fan. You can't lose 20 years of support like that. I live 10 minutes from Quins. I love live sport. But go and see them? I'd rather poke pins into my eyes!

I'll still be a Wasps fan. You can't lose 20 years of support like that. I live 10 minutes from Quins. I love live sport. But go and see them? I'd rather poke pins into my eyes!

Pretty much sums up a supporter to me.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Hopefully you will go and see Quins when we turn up in January

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

I'll be at the Quins game (providing I can get a ticket) and then after that I'll be attending the matches we play down south. Travelling up to Coventry on a Sunday every other week from south London isn't feasible for me, especially as I don't drive.

I can't bring myself to switch allegiances (that's just stupid) but I might go to occasional Quins match (heinous as that sounds).

If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

I don't really understand why anyone is still reacting to BB. He's no longer a wasps supporter, and should be treated for the most part as any other troll from a different clubs board should be i.e. ignored.

Agreed - I'm still kicking myself for responding. I don't normally read his posts and I let my discipline slip!

I went to AP on Sunday with my just back from University son, who was 9 when we started going to AP from Kent / East Sussex border. We were really sad, I know it's not much but it's all we've known with Wasps. Always remember the Newcastle "relegation game" and the low times. Other extreme - Pride of place above the computer here is a pic of us at Twickenham celebrating the HK victory. Great memories, great club , will always be our club and listening to matches on the radio when we could not get to games. Sadder too that the extra miles now turn it into a 7 hour road trip - just not possible for match- so careful planning and an overnight stay will mean maybe 2 or 3 matches a year. But will go to London "away matches" at Irish, Quins and the South Africans. Also we go to Bath and Kingsholm every year as friends are down there . Very envious of you guys living near West London / AP who can nip up easy for matches. Come Sunday will be raising a glass to the new era, will be with you in thought and rooting for the men in black and gold. Thanks for the piece and sentiments VV - I am one of the "left behind" - the Kent rearguard, but will catch up with the column one day. Here's tae us. Wha's like us? Damn few. And they're a' deid

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Mark79
I went to my first Wasps game in 2003 and became a season ticket holder the following season. I lived in Wycombe at the time. I moved to Princes Risborough and still went. I moved to Bicester and still went. Then work, golf, motorbikes and eventually kids got in the way. Did that make me any less emotionally involved? Did it @#$%&.
Both my daughters were born 5 minutes from London Welsh's ground but the only team they will support there is Wasps.

I do understand the I won't go, I just can't get the I won't support.

It doesn't affect me like it does others as it's probably as equal a journey as going to AP, but I still don't get it. But then I have been supporting Liverpool since I was 4. I wasn't born there and neither were my parents but don't tell me I am not emotionally involved with them. The domestics caused by my shouting at the telly for both them and Wasps speak volumes of how much I care.

Everyone entitled to their own opinion, some I get, some I don't just don't ram yours down my throat, repeatedly. Yes you!

I'm just grateful that when I moved away from my family they still supported me, even if they didn't visit as often as before.

Well thank you for just proving my point. If you prioritised playing golf and riding motorbikes over going to watch Wasps play then you obviously couldn't have cared that much. If you had done you would have made the time.

In terms of Liverpool really why do you care? Southerners supporting Northern football teams that they have little connection to has always baffled me. Even South Londoners supporting Arsenal and Tottenham I find hard to understand. It is like customers having "brand loyalty" to multinational companies that don't give a sh*t about them and are just after their money.

It is similar to people developing emotional attachments to fictional characters in literature or soap operas. Why do people care? Surely they have something else more worthwhile in their lives to invest their emotional energy in. Something that requires genuine effort and active participation.

it called having a life and having to make sacrifices. Some of us don't have infinite amounts of time to do the things they want let alone point out to any who will listen, and thousands who wish they didn't have to) that they are wrong because they don't agree with them.

Some would question why others post on this board when clearly the majority don't give a sh@t about them, but hey maybe that explains why others support teams for reasons that cannot be fathomed.

Quote:

Mark79

Quote:

Beckenham Bandit

Quote:

Mark79
I went to my first Wasps game in 2003 and became a season ticket holder the following season. I lived in Wycombe at the time. I moved to Princes Risborough and still went. I moved to Bicester and still went. Then work, golf, motorbikes and eventually kids got in the way. Did that make me any less emotionally involved? Did it @#$%&.
Both my daughters were born 5 minutes from London Welsh's ground but the only team they will support there is Wasps.

I do understand the I won't go, I just can't get the I won't support.

It doesn't affect me like it does others as it's probably as equal a journey as going to AP, but I still don't get it. But then I have been supporting Liverpool since I was 4. I wasn't born there and neither were my parents but don't tell me I am not emotionally involved with them. The domestics caused by my shouting at the telly for both them and Wasps speak volumes of how much I care.

Everyone entitled to their own opinion, some I get, some I don't just don't ram yours down my throat, repeatedly. Yes you!

I'm just grateful that when I moved away from my family they still supported me, even if they didn't visit as often as before.

Well thank you for just proving my point. If you prioritised playing golf and riding motorbikes over going to watch Wasps play then you obviously couldn't have cared that much. If you had done you would have made the time.

In terms of Liverpool really why do you care? Southerners supporting Northern football teams that they have little connection to has always baffled me. Even South Londoners supporting Arsenal and Tottenham I find hard to understand. It is like customers having "brand loyalty" to multinational companies that don't give a sh*t about them and are just after their money.

It is similar to people developing emotional attachments to fictional characters in literature or soap operas. Why do people care? Surely they have something else more worthwhile in their lives to invest their emotional energy in. Something that requires genuine effort and active participation.

it called having a life and having to make sacrifices. Some of us don't have infinite amounts of time to do the things they want let alone point out to any who will listen, and thousands who wish they didn't have to) that they are wrong because they don't agree with them.

Some would question why others post on this board when clearly the majority don't give a sh@t about them, but hey maybe that explains why others support teams for reasons that cannot be fathomed.

Well if you prioritised playing golf and riding motorbikes over paying good money and spending your own free time watching Wasps play live then you can't have cared that much. If had cared you would have given up the golf the motorbikes. You didn't.

By my reckoning you weren't exactly a committed supporter were you?

Quote:

Bandy
Who are you to tell people what is relevant or worthwhile to do with their own lives? Who are you to decide what they should or shouldn't be passionate about IN THEIR OWN LIVES? If someone is emotionally involved with a team in any way whatsoever, from whatever avenue it's arrived, then they are a supporter. There is nothing more to it. If they feel they a supporter of a club, they are a supporter of the club. And no-one can change that. Not even dark magic from that most revered of counties, Kent.

Frankly I just think they are a bit deluded that is all. Mindless customers in the trough of consumerism. Professional sport is after all a consumer product, whether consumed in person or through the medium of pay television.

As I said it is like the great many people who invest emotional energy into "the fates" of fictional soap opera characters. Why is it relevant, what stake do you have in it and why do you care? Surely there must be better ways to escape the mundanity of their daily lives.

BB you have often stated that you have poured a lot of money (tickets etc) into Wasps over the years sounds a bit mindless of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:17:22:04:34 by BdeB.

Five or six home matches AND three or four away matches a season. Don't get much more loyal a "local" supporter than that!

In what way do you escape the mundanity in your own life then BW?

Everyone, be sure to take notes, and spread the word of our Lord so that we all may be saved.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:17:21:58:14 by Bandy.

And we are still feeding the troll why?

Coddy, you're right. If I want someone to tell me that my decions on what I do are flawed and show no commitment to other things I should care more about, I can simply ask my wife

Quote:

Mark79
Coddy, you're right. If I want someone to tell me that my decions on what I do are flawed and show no commitment to other things I should care more about, I can simply ask my wife

Well you obviously cared more about motorbikes and golf than you did about supporting Wasps. That is the point. How can you be a committed supporter of a professional sports team without demonstrating any commitment?

Quote:

BdeB
BB you have often stated that you have poured a lot of money (tickets etc) into Wasps over the years sounds a bit mindless of you.

No just a considered way of spending part of my disposal income and leisure time during the winter.

However when your loyalty to a professional sports team isn't reciprocated you should be asking questions about whether it is worth it any more. If you disagree with the move to Coventry the only thing open to you is to exercise your consumer sovereignty and stop supporting the club.

Anything else would be disingenuous.

Bye bye, Beckenham.

A theory is only as good as the proof. Let's see, we have a theory that "you are only a supporter if you regularly attend live matches (especially home ones)". NB quotes denote the theory at hand not some specific words of wisdom from any individual.

Theories stand and fall in their limits. A national team must therefore represent a limit (although golf offers us Europe so not even an absolute limit).

Ergo:

You are only a supporter if you regularly attend your nation's home international matches.

By this measure the majority of a nation's population are by definition precluded from being supporters. That cannot be right, hence the theory is flawed.

I was tempted 5o round off with QED but that only applies when the proof supports the theory.

Can we now move on please.

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
Sun Tzu

Say goodbye to the Troll(ey) Dolly......

Desperately clinging to the one thing that fills his busy life as he can't manage to be a proper fan anymore

Perhaps after Sunday it will finally be goodbye, one can only hope

Not a Doctor and not a troll!!

I consider myself to be a fan of the fighter Josh Barnett. I have however never seen him fight live, or even met him in the flesh. We train in the same systems, and shared a coach for a while so I do feel a connection when I watch him fight.

Now I don't know whether I'm a fan of his nor not! Should I send him some money to buy my official fanship?

You should as BB for the definitive ruling...in fact for any areas of doubt in any areas of our lives BB will know what is the only course of action that is realistically open for us...maybe we should start a thread 'Ask Becks...'?

Quote:

Speach
A theory is only as good as the proof. Let's see, we have a theory that "you are only a supporter if you regularly attend live matches (especially home ones)". NB quotes denote the theory at hand not some specific words of wisdom from any individual.
Theories stand and fall in their limits. A national team must therefore represent a limit (although golf offers us Europe so not even an absolute limit).

Ergo:

You are only a supporter if you regularly attend your nation's home international matches.

By this measure the majority of a nation's population are by definition precluded from being supporters. That cannot be right, hence the theory is flawed.

I was tempted 5o round off with QED but that only applies when the proof supports the theory.

Can we now move on please.

Oh dear. Do you really need it explaining to you?

Supporting your country's national team at any sport is completely different from supporting a club side. Supporting a club is pretty much an optional activity. Supporting an national sporting side brings in a whole role of abstract emotions and feelings like patriotism and nationalism and self identity. By and large you can't choose the country you support.

Watching England and watching Wasps play has always triggered off very different emotional feelings in me. From the discussions that I have had with football fans about this they have many of the same attitudes.

Supporting your country is about national pride whilst supporting your club side is a hobby and a leisure activity. Very, very different from each other as I am you sure you are aware.

However I still think the "what you put in what you get out principle". The more time, effort and emotional energy you put into a leisure activity the more enjoyment and satisfaction you derive from it. I derived much more enjoyment from the successes of the England national rugby team than do many of my non-rugby following friends that sometimes get dragged along to the pub to watch them play.

I always want England to do well, as with any English national side in any sport, because I am English. I don't really have much of choice in that matter.

Frankly trying to compare the emotions involved in supporting English or British national sports teams with the Freemantle Dockers or some other cultural irrelevant professional sports team 10,000 miles away is ridiculous.

I stand by my comments. I struggle to understand why someone could be that emotionally cut up or involved with the fortunes of a professional sport team whilst willingly not investing any serious amount of time, energy or in trouble supporting them.

Quote:

Vespulavulgaris
I consider myself to be a fan of the fighter Josh Barnett. I have however never seen him fight live, or even met him in the flesh. We train in the same systems, and shared a coach for a while so I do feel a connection when I watch him fight.
Now I don't know whether I'm a fan of his nor not! Should I send him some money to buy my official fanship?

Well do you get emotionally cut up when he loses or elated when he wins? As cut up or elated as you do when watching Wasps? Does the fortunes of his career have a big impact on your life?

As I said I have casual affiliations to all sorts of sports teams around the World. Waikato Chiefs, New York Mets, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Williams F1, Crystal Palace even Racing Club de France. I want them to do well but did I care about them as much as Wasps or Surrey County Cricket Club? No. Does their success or otherwise have a big emotional impact on my life? No. When push comes to shove do I really care about them? Not really. They aren't major parts of my life.

Quote:

ricohchezwasp
Say goodbye to the Troll(ey) Dolly......
Desperately clinging to the one thing that fills his busy life as he can't manage to be a proper fan anymore

Perhaps after Sunday it will finally be goodbye, one can only hope

Don't worry. I will keep scratching away at people's consciences as and when required and raising the questions and issues that people would prefer to avoid. If people are still keen on discussing the move to Coventry I will be here to contribute.

While you are still here BB and on the subject of Coventry .... you seem to have remained very tight lipped about the ticket sales for this weekend of 27,000+ ... any reason for that ? ... I seem to remember not that long ago you giving us the benefit of your wisdom predicting 3,000 in a 30,000 seat stadium .... funny how you've stopped banging on about that one. Even if you factor in freebies, first game interest etc .... even you have to concede its pretty impressive ? .... or not ?

Has the era ended yet? Can we move on and leave this thread and other relics of the past behind?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:18:22:56:31 by BdeB.

There will no doubt be a reason why 1. That figure is most likely wrong and 2. That even if true, why those 27,000 people are all wrong. Still I am not allowed to comment as I will not be there. Selfishly and being a non committed supporter who can't possibly care for the team if I choose to do something else, I have chosen to go to work and to feed my family.

Apologies I did say I would stop encouraging, but my wife has gone to sleep so I need someone to tell me how wrong I am.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:12:18:22:53:14 by Mark79.

Well BB, the discussion over the move to Coventry will end soon. It will become reality on Sunday. I will be there, although it means committing additional 6 hours of my day in supporting my team. I will not be alone.

Put your sad life into perspective.

You do not have a medical condition which requires chemotherapy like my wife does. When she comes thought it, she will be going to Coventry to support the team, as well.