The man who would be wing

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I've long since given up trying to fathom Lancaster's selection policy. If it is his, that is, and not Farrell Snr.
Burrell, Twelvetrees, Dickson, Goode, even Kruis are not international quality in my view. Not sure that Burgess is either yet and if he is, only in the pack.

Glaring omissions for me are Wade and Ewers.

Agree St Bruno. Both players should have been in the training squad at least. SL's lack of adventure is going to come back and bite him in the @rse when we fail to get out of our group and interest in the RWC fades from an England point of view. Very short-sighted in my opinion and as you say, some of those selections are quite bewildering.

Nothing to add but that's a cracking headline/title

Quote:

SaintED
Nothing to add but that's a cracking headline/title

Thanks I was quite proud of that one.

I agree with the comments here, but let's not be overly dramatic.

Bruno and Kev, you state that it's short sighted of Lancaster not to pick Wade and Ewers, and that therefore we're likely to exist the world cup at the group stages

Even if those 2 were included in the initial squad, there's a very strong possibility that they wouldn't make it into any matchday squad anyway.
As a Wasps fan, I love Christian Wade, and while I'd likely have him in my squad, I can understand some of the reasons for not starting him.
As we know with TV2, it's rare that an out and out winger ever makes it onto the bench.

As for Ewers, he's definitely had a great season, and again I can understand the desire to have him in the squad.
However, given the experience (and credit in the bank) that Haskell and Wood already have, can you really see Ewers starting? Especially when the versatility of Lawes/Itoje would probably see them on the bench ahead of him.


While I agree that it would be good to have these 2 in the extended squad, I really don't see that they'd change our fortunes significantly enough to get us out of the group stages and win the tournament

Fair comments Stevie, but this is initially a training squad and it would have at least been a recognition of their respective talents.

Two cr@p performances against Oz and Wales and England won't get to the KO stages anyway.

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WaspieKev
Fair comments Stevie, but this is initially a training squad and it would have at least been a recognition of their respective talents.

I definitely agree with you there.

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Heathen
Two cr@p performances against Oz and Wales and England won't get to the KO stages anyway.

Which would have been true with or without Ewers and Wade in the 50 man squad.

Against Aus we should be looking at our best defensive and set piece team, which wouldn't include Ewers or Wade regardless.

Against the Welsh, at home, I like our chances regardless, but throw in Launch and Lawes into the squad that played them at the millenium, and I think we'll be sitting pretty.

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Raggs

Quote:

Heathen
Two cr@p performances against Oz and Wales and England won't get to the KO stages anyway.

Which would have been true with or without Ewers and Wade in the 50 man squad.

Against Aus we should be looking at our best defensive and set piece team, which wouldn't include Ewers or Wade regardless.

Against the Welsh, at home, I like our chances regardless, but throw in Launch and Lawes into the squad that played them at the millenium, and I think we'll be sitting pretty.

Wade's presence isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to our set piece, but his presence on the field is going to force their defence to focus on him a lot more than they will with Ashton, or Strettle, or May or...

Just like Jason Robinson did, just being there opens up holes in the defence of the other team because they are so concerned he might get the ball with a bit of space.

Imagine how effective Joseph could be with Wade offering the outside threat.

Quote:

backdoc
Imagine how effective Joseph could be with Wade offering the outside threat.

I'm drooling. Somebody fetch the nurse.

Wade or no Wade...SL is frankly a muppet who has very little vision in the game and is as conservative as you'll find in terms of selection and the 'faces' he wants.
I never understood how he got this job and i still can't fathom it...Strettle and Yarde my eye!

Wade on the wing would offer a running threat, but I very much doubt that's how we'll be playing Aus. We'll want to nullify their backs, and blast their pack, tried and tested. Nowell and Yarde I think could make the most interesting pairing, both go looking for work, and Yarde is finding form, and in form is exceptionally dangerous, equally both are solid in defence (Yarde has improved there with quins).

I think if all were fit and firing, I'd probably go May and Roko to be honest. Roko has a hip injury that Bath opted not to go down the surgery route for, and Roko has paid the price with his exclusion. Wade has been stripped of the ball a few times now, his strength under the high ball is variable, and he doesn't seem to get himself involved to the same degree as Yarde/Nowell.

If I had been picking the squad for a while, I'd take him, and I'd start him. I'd rely on Brown and Joseph to cover him defensively. Equally, I'm very surprised and disappointed that both Ashton and Strettle are in, whilst he isn't. But when it comes down to that 31, I'd have been very surprised if Wade had made it.

A very good Welsh friend of mine thinks that squad is great!

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

I could see our group going to points difference - e.g. England beat Oz, Oz beat Wales, Wakes beat England. The group will be decided by who thrashes Fiji and the other team by the most points. In that scenario I'd want Wade in my team.

Wade's exclusion from the training squad is, frankly, cowardly from Lancaster and, in particular, Farrell snr. Wade is a fantastic attacking threat. This is the England coaches chance to take Wade in and actually coach him to make him a better defender. Farrell is either wimping out or doesn't think he's up to the job. He fills his teams with defensive minded players rather than taking players and improving their defensive skills like Edwards does.

Strettle and Ashton better than Wade?? What kind of fool is SL..Ashton's defence is embarrassing at times. Wadey has had an average season if we are honest, but mainly down to his defensive game being totally compromised by our poor defensive organisation this season. In attack he's been fantastic as normal.

The squad is an insight into who is really picking the team - a heavy Saracens bias, especially in the backs, even though their attacking game is very limited.

Lancaster is limited in his thinking and he hit that limit a long time ago.

Lancaster is simply not international class.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Neither is Farrell Senior.

Farrell Senior.
World Class......











.........Rugby League

I grew up watching league and I was Andy Farrell's biggest fan when he decided to make the switch to Union. He has slowly but surely eroded all the respect I ever had for him ever since.

As I've said many times om this Forum before, when the game went open and all those players came to Union for those few months (Inga Connolly Paul Robinson Etc) Farrell was the one that was wanted but he never came across....And when he did it was a Bl00dy waste of time !!

Best convert at that time Gary Connolly (Harlequins) I thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:21:12:59:58 by greenwood.

I feel these statements help explain some of the problems regarding selection for England - no comment on current form or ability:

a. Lancaster:
"It is a pretty unique situation," Lancaster said. "The only probable scenario I can equate it to is the way the Waratahs are playing Michael Hooper at the moment; he's playing almost as a hybrid centre. "You look at the way they're using him in their games recently, he's so powerful, so dynamic, he could play centre or back row. And Sam's probably in that position; I can't think of another player who's played club rugby at Premiership level in two different positions [forwards and backs]."

b. Farrell
"We have a very rigorous way of looking at all games and preparing everyone with the same brush, and Sam's performance in attack and defence at the breakdown compares with the best over the last few weeks," Farrell said. "How he plays as a player won't change as a 12 or as a six. We've seen the same running lines, the same big hits and the same ferocity in his collisions in both positions. But what we have seen is that when he started off at 12, he developed as a rugby union player."

The comments, of course, refer to Burgess and the logic behind his selection.

Further comments from Lancaster includes:

There is room in the squad for the odd bolter and 20-year-old Maro Itoje is emerging as one who could gatecrash the final 31-man squad. "He could be that wild card," Lancaster said. "I coached him when I coached England Under-17s so I coached him in 2010-11 so I know him reasonably well and his development has not surprised me.
"What has surprised me is his ability to deliver at the highest level in the big games. At Saracens, who put a lot of emphasis on rotational policy, he has gone in and he has played in the big games. And he has delivered."

StevieWasp,
Didn't express myself properly. SL's time to start experimenting with new/young players was the day after he was appointed coach (2012?), not five minutes before the RWC!
Instead, what do we get? Ashton, Strettle, Goode, Wigglesworth, Dickson, Twelvetrees, Botha ad nauseum. (This is not a Saracens-bashing comment by the way, despite the Farrell Snr connections)
To my mind, Wade, Daly, Simmo, Slade, Slater at least should have had at least 6 England caps by now.
As mentioned above, SL won't be in the job for ever and the sooner he goes, the better in my view.

He's not been picked because the England coaching team haven't got time to suppress his natural flair and do we need another hooker anyway?

Do NZ ever pick a side to nullify threats the opposition might have??
Definitely not, they pick their strongest team stick to their goals and win. Annoys me so much when england pick so much in preparation for the opposition, looking at what players like wade can't do instead of what they can.

I must admit, this is SL's last throw of the dice in my eyes. Nepotism, blind ignorance, who knows? But when most of the pundits have got Wade and SImmo in their team of the season and they don't even get a shot at the 50 man squad, you really have to start wondering.

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jonnydeane
Do NZ ever pick a side to nullify threats the opposition might have??
Definitely not, they pick their strongest team stick to their goals and win. Annoys me so much when england pick so much in preparation for the opposition, looking at what players like wade can't do instead of what they can.

Agreed: As I stated before, SL seems more intent on not losing (with conservative options), rather than going out to win, with exiting, imaginative players.

Didn't SL sign a long term contract extension recently? Little that the blazers in the RFU do surprises me any more!

Didn't SL sign a long term contract extension recently? Little that the blazers in the RFU do surprises me any more!

I would expect (hope) there are break clauses.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Quote:

RossM
Didn't SL sign a long term contract extension recently? Little that the blazers in the RFU do surprises me any more!
I would expect (hope) there are break clauses.

6 year contract extension for Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt in Oct last year. Haven't seen anything anywhere suggesting there are any break clauses.

Well I did say 'hope'

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

I think Wade's best option for England recognition is to play rugby league for the summer then when he returns to Wasps in October he'll be a "League Convert" and be rushed into the England squad for the 6 nations!

I wonder if Wade has been seriously harmed by rushing away from Argentina for the Lions call-up? Would he have played in the 2nd England test anyway or been rotated out?

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Trev's Big Tackle
I think Wade's best option for England recognition is to play rugby league for the summer then when he returns to Wasps in October he'll be a "League Convert" and be rushed into the England squad for the 6 nations!

We need a "like" button!

Quote:

matelot22

Quote:

Trev's Big Tackle
I think Wade's best option for England recognition is to play rugby league for the summer then when he returns to Wasps in October he'll be a "League Convert" and be rushed into the England squad for the 6 nations!

We need a "like" button!

I was thinking the very same thing.