Can you be a neutral at an LI game?
By Jon_r43
October 1 2013
For those of you who know me and have read my views on here is will be no surprise as we move into my 9th season supporting LI this was the nearest that I have come to managing to take a neutral position at a club game involving LI for a long time.
I know many who post on here have a dislike of Bath for what has happened over the last 18 months, but for me this game was a real problem. I can’t remember going into a game for a long time when the result didn’t seem to matter because of the players I’m interested in on both sides.
I’m known not to be an optimist about our prospects this season although I do think we will survive (Keep on losing Worcester and Newcastle, please) and have an admiration for much of what Bath do that is not shared by many including one or two of my fellow travellers for this game. For me they are building back to being a top side and I hope that we will find a way to follow them in that.
To try to explain for those who have not met me, as a family we sponsored JJ for all of his 4 years at the club and last year also sponsored Anthony. I have always felt that the current management got things wrong last year in a range of areas (and that may explain why some are now in Bath.) I know many won’t agree with me that Messrs Booth, Hatley’s 7th place finish in 2011/12 (missing out on the HC on the last day of the season) was a great achievement and something that it will take a long time for us to equal or better.
So we headed off to the away game against “LI West” as we have taken to calling them with a mixture of emotions. Excitement at heading to a game and seeing “our boys” (will leave the reader to decide who I mean!) Worry as the form book in terms of performance in Bath suggested we could struggle, Hope because as Irish away supporters you always have to hope for the unlikely win (sometimes that’s true at home too).
Following a detour to pick up fellow travellers in Basingstoke and Bramley we headed down the M4 and arrived in the town centre car parks just before 12.00 and headed off through the town discussing it’s architectural merits before arriving at the Rec. There seemed to be a good amount of Irish support around but one thing is always clear in Bath, you have arrived in a rugby town with the clubs Blue and White worn across the city. The Rec (wreck) divides opinion amongst away supporters and after last year’s trip we won’t mention the toilets (although they have added some more) but in my view it’s a great old style ground to watch rugby although there is always a risk on a day when showers are predicted that you will need the rain coats (well at least we didn’t this year), we hang around and the ground opens. This was the first day of Bath’s consultation on the new ground which we didn’t take in but I hope it keeps some of the character of the old place.
Then the teams begin to arrive and there is time to catch up with friends both old and new and exchange views about the team and likely outcomes. Will Irish’s big centres be able to dominate the smaller centre pairing of Eastmond and JJ? How will Marland cope with Banahan? What about the relative merits of the packs?
Looking at the teams during warm up it becomes apparent early on that there is a probable change on the Irish side and Ian is wandering around in tracksuit bottoms while Shane and Myles are taking kicks and involved in the warm up. LKR who usually stands on the Thatcher’s not happy because the team are warming up down the far end has something of interest to watch just in front of her this time. The Irish team is named and the change confirmed, the teams come out and the game begins.
I’m not going to write a play by play account of the game as reports are so easily available these days and the journalists have already beaten me to it with reports available in a number of places including
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10336405/Bath-33-London-Irish-18-match-report.html
and in the rugby paper. The game will also be available in full on this site
http://www.premiershiprugby.tv/?WT.mc_id=mpType:Display*Asset:Display_Ad*CmpID:PRTV*Other:Video
in the next few days so anyone who wants to check it out or read a factual account has plenty of options.
However Bath are quickly on the front foot and in the first 5 minutes there are concerns amongst some of the Irish support around me that “Sir” might start to use his cards, we are saved (at this point) from this by a score from JJ who twisted and turned out of a tackle changing hands to cross the line. A roar went up from the Bath support around us which is probably just as well because for a couple of us the celebrations went beyond the usual expected polite applause when the opposition scored. Not least because on the Bath board there seems to be a doubt regarding JJ’s ability and in my view long term “class” that was reflected at Irish last year and we are still loyal to “our boy” (Bri still only gave him a 6 rating ;) )
Things don’t get a lot better and a second try is quickly added. This time there is a question as the quick line out Bath took looked initially as though it was ours. The TMO is involved and you can see on the screen that it brushed Topsy’s knee on the way out but the referee’s assistant’s flag gave the line to us and some of our boys stopped playing so again issues to sort out regarding the use of the TMO and one that cost us.
Then try 3 came along it’s being hailed, as I write this, as a runner for “Try of the season” with a break from George Ford from 65 metres (Never mind that according to Austin Healey who watched it 5 times it was never grounded) we’ve conceded a try of the season before at Bath where people ignored a foward pass (anyone remember when?)
Bonus point try followed inside half an hour with Rob Webber falling over the line behind a maul.
Irish got on the board with a penalty and a nicely taken try from Shane before half time but the final score of the half was a Bath try from Mercer. Half time approached at 33-10. There was a chance that it could have been 33-13 (less than 3 scores) because as time ran out we were awarded an easily kickable penalty but a fight broke out and the touch judge ruled that David Paice (or David Price according to a Typo on the Bath screen during the announcement) had done something he shouldn’t resulting in a yellow card and a reversed penalty.
The second half was better from an Irish perspective (we won it 8-0!) but it is difficult to really tell why when one side have the game almost won after 40 minutes. Did we improve? did Bath ease off? (probably both) They were they affected by 3 injuries… Including one to Anthony Watson after about 10 minutes. We lost Jamie Hagan for another 10 minutes in the half for collapsing a scrum. Bath didn’t score and with 10 minute to go when Shane scored there was suddenly a chance of 2 bonus points if we could have sneaked a couple more tries, it didn’t happen and the game ended. Was I disappointed that we had lost yes but not as disappointed as I have been at some other games against top sides when losing might have been expected.
After the game it was good to meet up with a number of the old boys and catch up with them… A word to anyone thinking of following them down to Bath. Before you do, look at what Bath make their players wear post match and think you might be made to do the same (Brown trousers, A blue and while check shirt and a Blue blazer that had what looked like a Bristol Rugby crest on it (That should annoy the Bath supporters who read this!!) and I’m not sure it really worked for the larger guys. Even the management wore them and it was a real shame when talking to Neil and Toby afterwards that we didn’t have a camera available as the lack of shorts was noticeable.)
We are now down to 10th place and probably the next key game is up at Newcastle in two weeks time. Certainly I won’t be a neutral on that day. Win that and hopefully a gap will appear between us and the bottom of the table.
Finally, to answer the question in the title. No, it’s not possible but this was the closest I’ve been in a while so maybe I’m not on the list of True Supporters ™ if I ever was! However it does seem to be more possible at some games than others…. Quins next week, will I be a neutral or nearly neutral then, no way so COYI. Do I expect us to win probably not (And if we are close no doubt they will get another “lucky” try) but the joy of following Irish is that you never know and very rarely expect the wins when they come along!
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:10:01:09:11:35 by Jon_r43.
Faugh-a-Ballagh!
"Our prayer is 'God save Ireland' and pour blessings on her name!"
Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum
Quote:wattshisname
Not sure why you offered to do the report this week Jon, as there is very little on here we didn't already know. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
You could always volunteer to do next week's report and give us a different perspective.
I will ask LKR when she is chosing future players to sponsor to choose ones whe we all know are not going to make it so nobody is upset when they leave rather than carrying out "research" to ensure we have sponsor players we allwant to keep.
Quote:wattshisname
Not sure why you offered to do the report this week Jon, as there is very little on here we didn't already know. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
More and more I do question the value of a match report as there is so much information about the game so quickly afterwards.
Live coverage, highlights, Facebook, Twitter, National and Local media reports, to name but a few sources.
That said, no one else (including me) volunteered to pen an article. The fact is that Jon_r43 graciously gave of his time and provided the board with his article.
I do wonder whether we should debate/exchange of views in considering altering what this board currently does.
My suggestion would be that a Pre-match report is compiled which then could be a subsequent prompt for debate and argument.
Just a thought.
Quote:bisachQuote:wattshisname
Not sure why you offered to do the report this week Jon, as there is very little on here we didn't already know. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
You could always volunteer to do next week's report and give us a different perspective.
I probably couldn't, Bisach, as I think I'm too old to learn new tricks. I do admire anyone who can put pen to paper and I do look forward to reading the match reviews. However, what I'm trying to say is that I don't want to hear Jon spout on again about how lovely Bath rugby is and how we should try to emulate them. I don't think there is much there to copy, except, perhaps, finding someone with millions to spare.
Quite frankly a copy & paste of the Lower Sunbury phone book would satisfy the need. However we had Jon's far more interesting perspective this week.
I know some people find the write ups supposedly done by children a bit puke-inducing, and other styles rile or don't rile the audience. However they keep the board going.
Simple answer - don't like it? Don't read it!
Faugh-a-Ballagh!
"Our prayer is 'God save Ireland' and pour blessings on her name!"
Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum
The problem is the authors need to know more about the opposition than i do in most cases..... Of cause i'm sure I could write a prieview for Paddies day game but that might invovle me "spouting on" about the strengths of Bath again so I'll pass on that one!
Good news this week is this is already the most commented on report I have written in ages.
Is there anything to stop us from say just posting a link to the Prem TV coverage as the story? if we can't get authors.
The number of comments so far suggests that the answer to the first part is “Yes” – people do read match reports.
In order to write something that has not already been seen elsewhere, the Craic report needs to (at least partly) be a personal view from its author – which is just what this report is. And being a personal view, others may not agree with that view, but if someone is willing to take the time and effort required to write a match report, then even if you do not agree with their view, it is rather insulting to just say they shouldn’t have bothered to write it.
I agree with you that there's something a bit special about a Bath match. I think it's that the ground is smack in the middle of the city, and you genuinely feel that the match is the most important thing happening in the city and that every man woman and child is behind their team. Somehow there's something a bit special about saying 'I managed to get a ticket to the Bath game'.
The bars around the ground are packed and lets face it the whole setting is amazing. I don't think it's an atmosphere replicated at any othe English ground.
On the downside, the view is often rubbish, the seats tiny and uncomfortable and you invariably get soaked but I think they'd be making a huge mistake to change it too drastically.
I've just realised the heresy of my words and that I'm even less of a TS (TM) than you Jon! Ah well.
Agree a factual match report is probably useless these days
I'm waiting for the view from the Bath support (especially Bri!)
Thanks for your thoughts mate. I may not agree with them, but actually that's the fun part about chewing the fat with other fans, online or otherwise, hearing different opinions, and I will always defend your right to convey yours.
(I've just looked at my grammar and comprehension in that sentence and feel it may be slightly too long.)
(Not that anybody cares I suspect)
(Why am I still typing?)
Quote:Jon_r43
To be fair Al so far nobody has said that, and I knew/ hoped when I wrote it in the style I did that it would attract comment..
Agree a factual match report is probably useless these days
I'm waiting for the view from the Bath support (especially Bri!)
I liken the match reports a bit like the restaurant reviews of AA Gill in the Sunday Times. About a quarter of the column contains factual information but the rest gives a personal take on the whole experience which is just as, if not more, entertaining. I can’t make away games so enjoy reading the reports.I think some could do with lightening up a bit!
Best reports on here were from SteveSsssss a few years back - but rather than be a time-line of the match, he picked out a few incidents/'Play of the Day' etc etc.
Whither SteveSss now...?
Answer = No
Quote:Obviously I should keep my mouth shut. Sorry if I've offended anybody. Comne on you Bath!
I'm not offended at all, we all have a right to our opinions.... and this place would die if they were all the same.
The interesting thing is over on the Bath board about 1/2 of there supporters think their performance was dreadful because they eased off 2nd half.
Faugh-a-Ballagh!
"Our prayer is 'God save Ireland' and pour blessings on her name!"
Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum
Quote:Foggy-Balla
I know some people find the write ups supposedly done by children a bit puke-inducing
What an unkind thing to say I hope Ace Reporter Molly does not see that comment.
And as for the "supposedly" you have obviously never sat next to her when she takes her 30 pages of notes. Ok she may get a little help to put it together but at 9 or 10 years old that is hardly surprising.
Still now she is 11 and at high school I don't expect she'll have time to do any more.
Oh dear Bill I fear you will find it even harder to get volunteers after this little episode.
I'm fairly sure that Molly is not the only match reporter who wrote a report fairly young and with a little help (and I have seen her notes!!),,,
I think the first report like this I saw might have been "written" by somebody Foggy knows rather well.
Just goes to show how quickly people are to "take offence" these days and on this occasion it was me.
I make no judgement as I rarely read the things anyway. However if the putting together gives the contributor pleasure, the reading gives the site user pleasure, and the presence of the article keeps the site open then fair dos.
To be honest IMNSVHO as long as what is written on the net isn't harmful or hurtful I don't care. If I am interested enough to engage I will, if not I will ignore. This is a thread where one member expressed his/her own perfectly validly held opinion and while agreeing with his right to do so I disagreed with the sentiment and said why I was grateful to Jon for submitting what he did.
Honestly, it must be the cyber moonphase or something at the moment. There are a couple of sites where I contribute where (I presume) grown men are having strops with each other including mass "resignations", one over a rant about a shop where one contributor didn't like the fact the other didn't use his real name and name the shop and another where two blokes are slugging it out over whether a model railway carriage is completely unrealistic as it's 0.5mm too short, this equating to 1.5 inches in real life on something 60 feet long...
Faugh-a-Ballagh!
"Our prayer is 'God save Ireland' and pour blessings on her name!"
Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum
As many here know I do a twice weekly column for GetReading. For that reason I don't volunteer to write craic reports unless nobody else comes forward.
There are some interesting comments on this thread about whether we need a report. Yes there are many match reports elsewhere so clearly you could argue one more like those is unnecessary.
Alan writes a very good match report which appears alongside my "fan's perspective" in the Wednesday GetReading edition so clearly I cannot write another one in the same style.
Making it personal is a difficult balance. Nobody wants to hear that I baked shortbread for the players the day before or who I shared a lift with. Similarly monocular green eyed rants against the referee might make it different to reports that confine themselves to quoting Brian's diplomatic references to the same incident but might get the mods into trouble. As I said it is a balancing act. It should be unashamedly from a London Irish fan's perspective, but still avoid the above pitfalls.
Finally length. A print column is always the same length (mine is a little more than a quarter of the word count in Jon's report here) If you are confined to between 400 and 450 words it will never be a blow by blow account.
As I've already written half that in this reply I shall shut up!
I was not at the game but have seen the brief highlights, reward other reports and also the various green-eyed threads on the forum (yes we always seem to lose out on big decisions but did they really change the game?).
A simple factual report is probably not necessary given the other reports and digital media available.
But one with a personal fan perspective - albeit an unusual one for an Irish supporter - was different and food for thought. Also a little bit of insight into someone closer to the players than me.
I thought we were hard done by on some key decisions but if you simply go on about them then the report becomes completely one-sided and comes across as sour grapes. I prefer to have a little bit less impartiality as it gives me a more objective insight into the game.
I appreciate the time and effort put into the report and am surprised at the content of some of the comments above - the title makes it pretty clear on your approach and if those that know you expect an angle that they don't like then reading is not compulsory.
Cheers
I love the match reviews. I could read them every day (OK I've gone a bit over the top now) and I've no gripe about them being produced by old people, young people, Jon or dogs on tricycles.
My initial post was about the content (mainly of the first few paras). I feel that Jon with, it seems, monotonous regularity, seems to extol the virtues of Bath Rugby at every opportunity. Well I don't agree with that view and I got pee'd off with hearing again how wonderful they are.
I know that Jon sponsored some of the lads who are there now, and I admire him for doing it, but when I read yet again that Brian has been doing it wrong at Irish and there is admiration for much of what Bath do then it annoys me. Sorry if that is insulting.
I enjoyed the actual match review.
However without risking the wrath of those who want sleeping dogs to lie I can't agree with the premise that TB got things right To my mind he floundered in his expanded role & the club suffered due to his inability to retain certain players & to let others go.
Quote:Portcullis Irish
Firstly Great to have a match report.
However without risking the wrath of those who want sleeping dogs to lie I can't agree with the premise that TB got things right To my mind he floundered in his expanded role & the club suffered due to his inability to retain certain players & to let others go.
That could open up whole new (ish) debate.
Whilst chatting with friends old and new last Saturday, we were all pretty much in agreement that whilst there was the Toby Booth factor, the biggest loss to LI was Neal Hatley. He was mentor, father figure, coach, etc to the generation of players who have chosen to develop/further their careers at Bath.