Disaster at Kingsholm: Gloucester 46-6 Quins
By AlanQuin
February 14 2010
Where are the words to describe the disaster at Kingsholm? In the seven years that I have been reporting on matches for this site I have never felt so at a loss for the words needed to describe what occurred reasonably objectively. For however passionate one is in support of Harlequins, only a dispassionate view of the events of yesterday will do in this report.
Put coldly, Gloucester scored 46 points to Harlequins 6. In doing so they scored six tries aided by a referee whose error count substantially exceeded that of Quins. This was officiating which would have disgraced a Third XV match in London 3 South! It undoubtedly had a deciding and adverse influence on the match.
Gloucester has a big powerful pack and the pressure they exerted at the scrum brought penalty after penalty, despite the fact that they were persistently boring in so that the pack was crabbing sideways. With little possession as a result, Quins were living on scraps and the error count rose accordingly. From the first scrum, after barely one minute, Quins were in difficulties. But though they retained the ball they were penalised for not binding. Robinson slotted the easy kick to open the scoring. Quins were penalised for a similar offence a few minutes later and then were further penalised for going offside in their own twenty-two and the score became 6 - 0.
Then from a scrum on the twenty-two, Gloucester broke away through Delve in a move that saw Vainikolo force his way over unstoppably from close range. Robinson duly added the extra points to increase the lead to 13 – 0. Quins fought back and in the next ten minutes Evans took the opportunity offered to kick two penalties, the first going in off the post. Further Gloucester attacks were staunchly resisted and Simpson-Daniel was put into touch just a couple of metres short of another score. Tiesi came off the worse for wear after a tackle on Vainikolo and was replaced by Sam Smith with Lowe moving into the centre.
With less than five minutes of the half remaining and Quins still well in the game came the try that virtually took the game away. A chip into the corner was contested between Strettle and Vainikolo in the course of which the Gloucester winger clearly knocked the ball forward. The ball crossed the try-line and the centre, Molenaar, touched down and the try was awarded despite the clear knock-on that must have been visible to the officials as it was to half the spectators present. A disappointed Quins side went down the tunnel for half time with the score 18 – 6.
In the first ten minutes of the second half the whistle scarcely sounded except to award penalties against Harlequins. Four went against Quins as Gloucester gained in confidence and whatever Harlequins did was wrong. Then from abundant possession,
Gloucester began to move the ball slickly from hand to hand and eventually created a three man overlap which allowed Simpson-Daniel to finish a fine try and Robinson added the conversion for 25 – 6.
The refereeing continued to be a cause for concern with almost every interpretation being decided in favour of the home team. When the ball was ripped from a Harlequin grasp and dropped by a Gloucester player, the event was adjudged to be Harlequins having knocked on. When a Gloucester player failed to release after a tackle with Quins forwards on their feet, Harlequins were penalised for hands in the ruck! Then an attempted grubber kick from Nick Evans rebounded from a Gloucester player and fell in the path of Tom Voyce in an offside position as he gathered the ball and cantered in under the post for the try to be awarded despite the clear offside.
Worse was yet to come as Quins tried to force the game to redress the balance and their errors compounded the misery. Whatever they did went wrong .With Quins on the attack barely five metres from the Gloucester line, Delve, in an offside position intercepted a pass and took off for the Quins’ line passing suspiciously forward to Simpson-Daniel who scored under the posts. Final Score was 46 – 6.
Kingston and The Press
After the match John Kingston had a hard time restraining himself from criticism of the referee, who had earlier in the season been the subject of an intemperate outburst from Brendan Venter.
"We have been stung there by crazy individual errors. You could play that game 10 times and that would not be the way the scoreline would be. We couldn’t quite finish chances that we had.” he said. “We did lots of very good things going forward. We had several opportunities and worked extremely hard to generate pressure and momentum and couldn’t nail the final pass.
“Set against….. frankly, it was Christmas wasn’t it? Interceptions, charge downs, loose passes being thrown that they grabbed hold of. Frankly, key decisions going against us when the game was tight. I have to say that. It may seem obvious on the scoreboard that it was a hammering and it is.
“But I have to say that there were certain occasions and moments in the game that had the decisions gone the way that I interpreted, possibly shouldn’t have been. I can't believe, for the life of me, that Gloucester's second try was awarded," Kingston said.
"That was right on half-time at 13-6. There was a knock-on, which everybody in the ground saw, and, at that point, Harlequins were well and truly in the game.
“We brought problems on ourselves by conceding a try straight through the middle where nobody laid a glove on the guy. That is not acceptable. I actually thought, curiously, that some of our defence was very good at times. But we then got a try disallowed for a forward pass which, if it was forward, then fair enough, but it was about as forward as a try they had when a guy popped it to them.
"Cleggy (Rory Clegg) throws a pass on their line, the guy (Gareth) Delve is about two yards offside, he intercepts and they go the length of the field."
"I am not going into a public discussion about the officials. I have just said to you that it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that, if somebody knocked a ball on and a try was given, that's a fact," he added. "Fact - the guy knocked it on and a try was given so there you go.”
Kingston went on “Look you are playing at Kingsholm in front of 13000 or 14000 people. That is Chris York’s first match in the Premiership, it is James Johnston’s first start in the Premiership. Lewis Stevenson doing a job in the middle of the lineout when he is a front of the lineout jumper. Luke Wallace plays his first Premiership game, comes off the bench. George Lowe is doing remarkably well this year considering how much rugby he is being asked to play.
“I feel very sorry for these players. They didn’t deserve that for their effort today. There have been occasions when performances have been poor, Cardiff in the Heineken Cup for instance. I was the first person to be forthright about it.
“It might sound really odd but there were a lot of things positive about that today. There was an awful lot of naivety in the way we presented opportunities for people. There was very little between the sides and decisions went against us. We knew the first try in the second half, because of the decision just before half time at 18-6 was going to be key. It was tough. It really was tough. Nothing more difficult or problematic could have happened to the boys today.
“Looking forward, the key thing is how we react to this situation. We haven’t lost a Cup Final. We are not performing at the moment. In the league we are not going forward. As things stand, it is not looking as though we are going to make the top six. But we can change that. We have nine games to go, five at home. We have got to see how we react to this adversity.
“There’s a lot of emotion downstairs. There’s a lot of frustration downstairs. But we have to work our way through that and put on the pitch next week, against Northampton, a performance to be proud of.
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![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
"I am not going into a public discussion about the officials." - er what was all of the rest of it about then?!?!?!?
Bury your heads in the sand if you really think that the ref was the only reason you lost that game if you want but do take heart from some of your players still putting in 100% at the final whistle.
1. getting hammered in the scrum
2. woeful defence
3. gloucester being very clinical, and then feeding off our errors as we chased the game
All credit to glos really, don't think that scoreline particularly flattered them.
Worrying words from kingston. should have just kept his mouth shut
didn't see the alleged knock-on for their 2nd and i was in the JS stand
despite the shocking loss, enjoyable first trip down there. will definitely be going again, and hopefully the team will turn up too next time.
pretty sure they walked, rather than ran out on to the pitch too. i know it makes no difference whatsoever, but still doesn't exactly give the impression they're up fot it
The desription of Voyce's try is hilarious.
What actually happened is that Delve charged down the kick, gathered the ball, then flicked it up to Rory Lawson and Tom Voyce both of whom were coming from deep to finish the job.
We cannot blame Mr Rose for our complete shortcomings.
One of the reports (sorry, cannot remember if it was BBC or Sky) summed it up when they said that Quins conceeded a further 3 tries as they gave up the ghost.
JK might seek to deflect the issue, and I know that reports are written from a quartered point of view, but no, sorry, that was a hammering, plain and simple, and we got exactly what we deserved on that performance.
Let's be optimistic, things can only get better for this weekend against the Saints, surely?
TV evidence showed a clear forward pass for the second try but I have looked and looked and I can't see if it was a Quins knock back or a Glos knock on. Either way it was forward to start with.
The first try was textbook. Can't see how Rosey could get that wrong. The passing for JSD's first was superb, nothing forward. The other 3 were interceptions. I guess any interception would have a hint of offside. The charge down and pass were fine.
I am looking from my eyes on the day and the TV coverage. I think Kingston is deflecting the problem. It was an 'Iron grip' lost last week and the ref this week. Glos still scored 11 tries. He is right about somethings though. Your team never gave up and the supporters, who were there for Quins were brilliant. cheers
Front 5 were battered.
Our backrow I am affraid worked their socks off, but came second as they were on the back foot all the time.
Chris York worked hard but made two bad missed tackles one of which allowed their first try and the second aided the build up to another.
JK really needs to work on the front 5 at scrum time. Big week as they have Murray, Tonghaliea (spelt wrong) coming up.
We need Robshaw back in for work rate and intensity.
The first bit on telly last night was Guest under immense pressure working hard to protect the ball. We got pinged even though Narraway had come in on the side to attack the ball. This was the start of things to come.
At the end of the day it was 46-6.
FWIW the Shedweb match report is here (I'm afraid it reads rather differently):
[www.gloucesterrugby.net]
I am, of course, prone to error but make no apologies for my views. I am as entitled to opinions as are all who post on here.
When there's a call like the one Lander made in the Cup Final, then yes, a ref (or touch judge in this case) can cost you the game. When you're on the end of a 46-6 thrashing, I find it hard to see how the ref cost us the game. The only way that could have happened is total bias towards Glaws, which would be quite some accusation to make.
Every ref has their foibles and are more keen on some things than others. However, both teams have expert video analysis of the oppo and the ref. I can only think that Glaws have done their homework on him far better than we did.
It's the same ref for both sides and if he is a poor ref, then he's poor for both sides.
RESPECT THE REF - NO REF, NO GAME!
The idea that Quins never game up was nonsense. I sure Glos would like to think that was the case,
Reality was that their heads went down early in the second half.
Even my mrs spotted how beaten they looked.
Glos were better.
Quins we rubbish...struggled to create anything and the number of knock-ons and general poor skills was all too obvious.
Just really disappointed that they didn't look up for it and folded like a pack of cards
We managed to loose that through cocking up basics without the assistance of the ref or assistant refs.
Alan we are a pretty one eyed bunch but I don't think anyone disagreed with your view of the second Glos try. It was forward. The scrummage was totally dominated by Glos and most of the Quins fans who went, agree.
Which was the other try that was wrongly awarded ?. I'm going to be very objective and watch it again. If it was the Delve charge down it went onto Dicksons shoulder then he picked up. ITV showed a clear view of that happening. Delve was the last Glos man on the line. The quins player passed it straight to him with two Quins players outside.He is entitled to move up on the defensive line. The last JSD try was a knock on from Quins and JSD strolled in.
I think, like many of the Quins fans do as well, Alan that your report is inacurate. I also think 10 is being harsh on your players. Two of those tries came from Quins pressing our line and they were also pressing in the last couple of minutes. I don't think they gave up at all. It was just a good allround performance from the better side, on the day.
And I would fully expect Andress OR JJ to get messed up by Nick Wood. He's a quality scrummager.
Shame really as all the Quins folk i met on Saturday were vocal throughout the game and gracious in defeat afterwards.
We all have our moments with refs,but please...get over it.
Hey ho...good luck for the rest of the season.
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I can't read and I can't write,but that dont really matt'errr,
cause I come from Glawstershire and I can drive a tract'errr.
We'd have lost against 15 shop window dummies the way we played on Saturday.
Still, onwards and upwards - I'll be cheering Quins from the LV stand on Saturday!
I for one feel very apprehensive about the situation.
Quote:Nicksb
To be honest, even if the ref had penalised Glos whenever one of them touched the ball it wouldn't have made much difference.
We'd have lost against 15 shop window dummies the way we played on Saturday.
Still, onwards and upwards - I'll be cheering Quins from the LV stand on Saturday!
We could have won if we had Tailored our plans accordingly.
The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George
The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George
I'll get me coat (made)...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:16:17:47:54 by Quinky Kin.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:16:21:31:51 by Bolly-Quin.
The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George
QUIN KONG
Quote:I expect Glos fans to see the match differently because their team can do no wrong.
Alan you clearly have never visited Shedweb! We are not nearly as myopic as popular myth would suggest!
If I was a Quins fan I would be genuinely concerned by Kingston's comments and attitude. Perhaps it was just a front, but if not he is delusional. Quins are much, much better than saturday's scorline or performance, and with key players returning will be a different proposition. However the fact still stands that on saturday you came second best - big time - and if Kingston cannot accept that how can he learn from it?
Quote:Having seen the highlights I think the best thing Gloucester can do is get a new groundsman, there was one try when the Gloucester player looked liked he was going to come to a standstill in the mud.
Tim the pitch is not as good as it generally is - which is very good. It actually looked a lot worse on TV, although it is not in a very good state at the moment. The groundstaff worked absolute miracles to get recent matches (both Glos and England U20s) played, and should be applauded. They cannot control the weather we have had! Did you see the Headingly pitch at the weekend?
I assumed the pitch isn't usually that bad, it did look awful on TV, guess you were lucky you weren't playing Wasps.