GP Results Roadmap: 09-10 - Round 14
By Quaking Quin
February 25 2010
The game against Northampton brought a much needed home win and broke the cycle of poor results. With the win came euphoria and the belief by some that Heineken Cup qualification was still possible - and maybe even a play-off slot. One swallow, as the saying goes, doesn’t make a summer, and who knows what to expect next from a Quins team that has shown no consistency all season.
Is a top 6 finish a reality, and how do things look compared with relegation year?
John Kingston said after the Saint game that Quins would not be relegated. A brave claim, but is it any more fool-hardy than Mark Evans declaration back in March 2005 that 37 points were sufficient to avoid relegation? After a poor start last September, without a win, Quins have managed to stay ahead of the points target needed to finish in 11th position in the GP but have never managed to keep up with the points needed to achieve the 6th place threshold (compare the final column in the Roadmap Table below with the totals in the 11th and 6th place columns).
Leeds beating Sale has certainly bunched up the bottom three places and left them only 4 points behind Quins on Friday night. Our head coach’s take on this was that Sale have left the door open for Quins to take the 6th GP place – if only it were a 2 horse race!!!
By last Sunday the bottom six looked like this:
| 2009/10 | P | W | D | BP | Points | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | Quins | 14 | 5 | 2 | 4 | 28 |
| 8 | Falcons | 14 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 27 |
| 9 | Glaws | 14 | 5 | 1 | 4 | 26 |
| 10 | Sale | 13 | 4 | 1 | 5 | 23 |
| 11 | Wuzz | 14 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 20 |
| 12 | Leeds | 14 | 3 | 1 | 5 | 19 |
On the equivalent Sunday back in January (29th) 2005 the table looked like this:
| 2004/05 | P | W | D | BP | Points | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 7 | Sarries | 14 | 6 | 2 | 4 | 32 |
| 8 | Irish | 14 | 6 | 0 | 3 | 27 |
| 9 | Leeds | 14 | 5 | 0 | 5 | 25 |
| 10 | Saints | 13 | 4 | 0 | 6 | 22 |
| 11 | Wuzz | 14 | 4 | 0 | 5 | 21 |
| 12 | Quins | 14 | 3 | 1 | 6 | 20 |
The thing to note is how similar both tables look in terms of the points for each position, and probably demonstrates, like 2005, that deciding the relegation place is likely to go down to the wire. Can John Kingston be so certain about avoiding relegation? The short answer is no……..the bottom 5 in 2005 were all caught up in a dog-fight until Jeremy Staunton missed the very last kick of the season. The conclusion to be drawn is that 40 points spell safety not the coach’s optimisms..…and we are still waiting for that run of wins JK also promised before Christmas.
The Roadmap Table (which was worked out before the start of the season) is based on the average points gained over the 11 years of the GP for 1st, 4th, 6th and 11th place finishes and what Quins would be expected to do given their finish last season.
Quins now have 28 points (see ‘Actual’ in last column – the figure in brackets is the points they gained in the match for that round)
To finish 4th Quins must look at reaching 62 points – a shortfall of 34 points. This means either 8 wins out of the 8 remaining games with 2 bps, or 7 wins out of 8 with 6 bps. JK was stating the blinding obvious when he said last weekend that a play-off position was probably out of reach.
To finish 6th Quins will probably need a total of 55 points at the end of the season – a shortfall of 27 points. Or, put another way – they have to win 6 of their last 8 games with 3 bonus points from anywhere. Is this possible? Yes, but realistically it is still a very tall order.
There are 4 home and 4 away games left. The easier bit being the home games where Quins play three perennial bottom finishers – Leeds, Wuzz and Falcons. The fourth is against Sale, last game of the season – and it could be another Jeremy moment in a number of ways – but very winnable despite the Sharks being a bogey team this year. The difficult bit is the away games are against teams that are all higher in the GP – Irish, Bath, Sarries and Leicester.
Nothing is impossible but on current form Quins are (statistically) most likely to finish 8th or 9th. The next two games will give a clear indication of the direction Quins are heading.
| GP Roadmap Table 09/10: | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rd | Game | Date | 11th Place | 6th place | 4th Place | 1st Place | Actual Points |
|||||
| Pts | Total | Pts | Total | Pts | Total | Pts | Total | |||||
| 1 | Wasps | 05/09/09 | a | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | (0) 0 |
| 2 | Tigers | 12/09/09 | h | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 5 | (1) 1 |
| 3 | Sarries | 19/09/09 | h | 4 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 7 | 5 | 10 | (0) 1 |
| 4 | Falcons | 26/09/09 | a | 1 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 4 | 11 | 5 | 15 | (2) 3 |
| 5 | Bath | 03/10/09 | h | 1 | 6 | 4 | 11 | 4 | 15 | 5 | 20 | (4) 7 |
| 6 | Wuzz | 24/10/09 | a | 1 | 7 | 4 | 15 | 4 | 19 | 5 | 25 | (4) 11 |
| 7 | Irish | 31/10/09 | h | 1 | 8 | 1 | 16 | 1 | 20 | 4 | 29 | (2) 13 |
| 8 | Saints | 21/11/09 | a | 0 | 8 | 1 | 17 | 1 | 21 | 4 | 33 | (0) 13 |
| 9 | Glaws | 28/11/09 | h | 4 | 12 | 4 | 21 | 4 | 25 | 4 | 37 | (5) 18 |
| 10 | Leeds | 04/12/09 | a | 4 | 16 | 5 | 26 | 5 | 30 | 5 | 42 | (4) 22 |
| 11 | Wasps | 27/01/09 | h | 4 | 20 | 4 | 30 | 4 | 34 | 4 | 46 | (1) 23 |
| Halfway
|
|
20 |
|
30 |
|
34 |
|
46 |
|
|||
| 12 | Sale | 01/01/10 | a | 0 | 20 | 0 | 30 | 0 | 34 | 1 | 47 | (1) 24 |
| 14 | Glaws | 07/02/10 | a | 0 | 20 | 1 | 31 | 1 | 35 | 1 | 47 | (0) 24 |
| 15 | Saints | 20/02/10 | h | 4 | 24 | 4 | 35 | 4 | 39 | 4 | 51 | (4) 28 |
| 16 | Irish | 28/02/10 | a | 0 | 24 | 0 | 35 | 0 | 39 | 1 | 52 | |
| 17 | Wuzz | 06/03/10 | h | 5 | 29 | 5 | 40 | 5 | 44 | 5 | 58 | |
| 13 | Leeds | ? | h | 5 | 34 | 5 | 45 | 5 | 49 | 5 | 63 | |
| 18 | Bath | 27/03/10 | a | 0 | 34 | 0 | 45 | 0 | 49 | 1 | 64 | |
| 19 | Falcons | 03/04/10 | h | 4 | 38 | 5 | 50 | 5 | 54 | 5 | 69 | |
| 20 | Sarries | 17/04/10 | a | 1 | 39 | 1 | 51 | 4 | 58 | 4 | 73 | |
| 21 | Tigers | 24/04/10 | a | 0 | 39 | 0 | 51 | 0 | 58 | 0 | 73 | |
| 22 | Sale | 08/04/10 | h | 1 | 40 | 4 | 55 | 4 | 62 | 4 | 77 | |
| Final Total
|
|
40 |
|
55 |
|
62 |
|
77 |
|
|||
Lots still to look forward to and enjoy ...
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Re "John Kingston said after the Saint game that Quins would not be relegated" - when did he say that, I hadn't heard that?
1 Leicester 15 10 1 4 327 188 7 49 2 Northampton 14 10 0 4 294 217 4 44 3 Saracens 14 10 1 3 241 201 2 44 4 Wasps 14 9 0 5 242 223 3 39 5 London Irish 14 7 3 4 298 201 5 39 6 Bath 14 5 2 7 244 226 6 30 7 Harlequins 14 5 2 7 235 298 4 28 8 Newcastle 14 4 4 6 192 221 3 27 9 Gloucester 14 5 1 8 263 297 4 26 10 Sale 13 4 1 8 203 253 5 23 11 Worcester 14 2 4 8 202 268 4 20 12 Leeds Carnegie 14 3 1 10 182 330 5 19
So, the teams in 1st, 6th and 11th are behind the targets for 1st, 6th and 11th. Which leaves me very confused as to where everyone is going to finish! Seriously, I think given the current points of the bottom seven, 55 might be a bit of an overestimate of what is required for 6th this year.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:25:18:53:14 by Quin Like Flint.
I think we will turn the plastic paddies over on sunday (they are out of sorts)
We will beat worcester at home, and leeds and newcastle.
Sarries is at a neutral venue and with a decent turnout of quins fans cheering the team on i think we could get a result there.
Leicester and bath away i think we will lose. Do good to get 1 point out of them games.
Sale at home is a tricky 1 but i think if 6th place was up for grabs we could win that 1 aswell.
COME ON YOU QUINS!!!!
just a little bit of bad luck in certain games can turn the table on its head.
look at last week end - is fair to say that none of us expected a win after the performance the week before.
It certainly spices up the season and gives the lads a lot to play for.
A win this week end would change the complex of the season for everyone except the very top end
on on quins
The Roadmap is spot on (please remember that this was compiled last August) - not adjusted last week to suit present circumstances.
But (1) if Quins had 55 points they would now be top.
(2) if they 39 points they would be equal 4th
(3) if they now had 35 points they would be 6th,
(4) if they had 24 points they would be 10th but only 4 points ahead of 11th spot.
As Rodders says, there is 'lots to play for' - make your own mind up whether that is for 6th place or 12th.
Three straight wins now would bury the relegation ghost and put Quins in very strong HC contention.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:25:21:39:25 by Quaking Quin.
Back to the old cliche - we'll have to take each game as it comes.
