News: Tiny And Mooj to leave Saints?

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Don't need this then - now correct!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:13:03:07 by BerniesBestFriend.

I know how much the Welsh props were offered to play in France, one took the silver one didn't. I suspect its very hard to turn that kind of money down. As I've said before, Platini, a Frenchman, is leading European soccer down the 'fair play' route, meanwhile its the French who are doing just the opposite in rugby. And its in France that you get one rugby club after another getting into financial strife.

Hey did you hear Tiny & Mooj are leaving? I read it on twitter...

.... and the 75 posts about it here on COYSDC.

Tiny has had 10 very good years here and his leaving would potentially free up a large chunk of the salary cap. Regardless of affection for the big man, he does appear to be in decline so perhaps its best if both parties split amicably.
Alex Waller has been waiting in the wings for a while now and deserves a crack of the whip.

Mooj would be a huge loss as his cameo against the dragons showed the other week, he's capable of grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and putting you in the position to kick (.so long as you can put them over) a side to death.

Jim fishing around Alex Corbisero is an interesting, it definitely points to having a top quality prop for HC rugby and if you look hard enough there are some very tidy options around at the moment.

Meanwhile PDJ & Tom Mercy's collective ears will have just Pr!cked up at this news. All to play for for the 3 other squad props now...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:03:23:07 by Robby Richmond.

I hope that doesn't happen, I love our scrum contests and it makes for a great contest. do what you can to keep them please

i thought Mooj had another year on his contract to run?

He does Walks, however, we do not know if it was 1+1 year option or if Metro are prepared to buy him out of his final year.

The Alex Corbisiero move doesn't make complete sense to me. What does that mean for Alex Waller's aspirations as premier loose-head?

If PDJ & Mujati leave surely the requirement will be greater at tight-head with only Mercey & Ethan Waller?

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

if Mooj is leaving i would say that puts a Tight Head Prop at the top of the shopping list ahead of the mythical world class number 10. Reduced scrum power would require a radical re-think for our forward game plans

on another point aren't English clubs put at a disadvantage if they are not allowed to talk to potential recruits from other English sides until January? yet the French are allowed to get their contracts on the table far earlier. while i understand the need to reduce player poaching while in contract, it's a bit of a nonsense if teams from overseas can do as they please



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:08:29:32 by walks10.

We kind of knew this would happen didn't we ?

If they choose to stay - hurrah ! If not then both have put a load of hard yards in and should be allowed to do the best for their families and futures as they see fit

Mooj would surprise me given his love of brewing bitter and having a bewery pretty much at home.. Maybe he fancies trying cidre' or whatever they are calling it but he strikes me as a guy who would weigh up that alongside any contract

We need 4 (ideally 5) top class props - we have 5 today - if any of the 5 leave then all eyes on the coaching staff given our inability to recruit and replace last season

I think Corbisiero would be one hell of a signing Robbie - I don't think Alex W would fret too much either - if he is 2nd fiddle, its to an England starter - if he matches him then I'd expect a shiny purple (or whatever stupid colour they pick) tracksuit to be handed over in the next 2 seasons

Ethan has a lot to learn, Tom M will be guaranteed bench time and starts and Ethan moves into the mix - plus others in the wandies i've not even seen as yet..

Having Corbs here would be better from Alex than having Tiny here. Corbs would be away with England a lot more - so more guaranteed starts for Alex. Plus, Corbs doesn't seem to be quite as durable as Tiny (something we have to consider as well) - so even more game-time for Alex.

Either way, if both Tiny and Mooj are off, surely that means we need to fork out to keep PDJ, or we've got to do some serious scouting to recruit two top-class tightheads alongside Corbisiero.

This season's recruitment is going to be the acid test for Jim. If he doesn't replace quality with quality, as he has seemingly failed to do for this seasson - questions will be asked.

Edited, decided in the end not to comment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:09:28:30 by ChrisG.

That, in its own way, is a comment though.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

As usual i agree with Chris

Evening you lot. Thought you'd be interested to know the rugby journo, Mark Souster has just tweeted to say both Mujati and Tongahuia are to leave, and that there's a special signing coming in...

You might be a little late to the party on this one, scroll down...

You are only about 2 days late
Mujati still has a year on his contract I believe.....

If you look hard enough you can find the signing...

David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

I've been discussing this on the Tiny to racing thread which is probably not the best place for it - indeed many would say that not discussing speculation at all would be best.

I can't find any mention of the length of contract Mujati signed when he last renewed, but if it were a two years, it would be up this summer.

Times journo saying in response to questions that Mujati informed Jim today that he was off to Racing with Tiny in May.

Well if a self serving hack said it, it must be true.

Somebody should tell the Times that we're looking to sign that young scrum-half Ben Foden from Sale.


Contract or not, it doesn't really matter.

Good luck to both if true. No wailing or gnashing of teeth here.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

Hi all, worcs fan in peace.

Reading on Twitter that Tonga and Mujati are off and Corbisiero coming in? Is this all rubbish?

Sorry, found other thread. Looks credible if currently rumour.

Tweets from rugby paper that Tiny has signed terms with Racing Metro. Midi Olympique also reporting the move. Before Jan?

I think it's only English clubs that can't talk to players before 1st Jan.

Three years ago we would have been (nay were) up in arms at the prospect of him leaving. Possibly now we might say thanks for being such a great player for us Tiny and good luck with your next challenge ?

Money, money, money talks, it seems.

And why shouldn't it?

Tiny has a short life as a professional player. So long as he's not going to Sorries, good luck to him.


*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

And PDJ on the move too, we hear...

RUGBY COMIC


*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

Quote:

Saint Dom
And PDJ on the move too, we hear...
RUGBY COMIC

I think we've already seen the PDJ Rumour

If it's true that they are both leaving it does raise some questions:

Are Saints unable or unwilling financially to persuade them to stay ?

If their departure means recruiting at least one prop of equal quality won't that cost as much as keeping one of them ?

Do Saints have sufficient talent already on the books for them not to need to recruit outside ?

If the club could afford to pay Tiny the sort of money that Racing have allegedly offered, we might be able to take on a French side on more equal terms.


I think that you show a certain amount of naivety around the financial issues Tedge
Tiny will go - it's his Pension - PDJ is less certain.

David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

I don't know how much he earns now or what he has allegedly been offered elsewhere. I am well aware that French clubs have far more buying power. I think what I am really asking is are Saints, for rugby reasons, pragmatic about him leaving, in the knowledge they can replace him with someone as good or better ?

The choice:-

Northampton... £xk, Wellingborough Road Balti and Weedon Road Chippy.

Paris... €x+++k, 77 Michelin * restaurants, Moulin Rouge and Moules et Frites everywhere.

Go figure!

To be honest I think the timing is probably right for Tiny, we're not seeing the return this season on what is a hefty investment. He has to be one of the top earners. Not sure PDJ has developed as they would have liked, he's a good player and we've seen glimpses but he's not pushing Mooj. Are we letting him go back to London rather than a new offer. Certainly free plenty of cash up.

EF as I say above I am not questioning Tiny's incentive - it is indeed a no brainer from his point of view. It's still possible with the "marquee player" rule that Saints might have matched the offer but as DW infers above they might not feel inclined to bother.

Tedge, I meant no slight to you. Just given the options and if you or I were in that position which would we choose?

Eifel over Express Lift for me.

I'm not surprised, I don't think tiny has recaptured the form of a couple of years ago, with PDJ going we can have the waller brothers as our main protagonists and put the money into recruiting a world class fly half

Good luck to him - he owes us nothing and deserves the chance to earn a few quid

Somebody said the word 'pragmatic' above, I think that sums it up perfectly.

Both moves are pragmatic for the club and, I believe, perhaps the best for all involved.

Good luck to Tiny, we're not in the same position we were when we last re-signed him. Nor is he. I don't begrudge him his day go the sun one iota.

PDJ will be happy linking up with his old chum from school amateur cinematography club. (edit assuming he ends up at Wasps)

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:26:20:05:31 by St Owen.

I don't begrudge Tiny the move and will wish him well. I do think his form has not been up to what it was since he returned from the World Cup so maybe it is time for a change. I am worried that a lot of significant contracts do come up for renewal at once. Last year it was Downey, Wilson and Ashton and this year Tiny, PDJ, Lamb, Myler. It seems to have had an adverse effect this year when we have had to change the style of player and we can't afford to have that again next year. I know that 2 year contracts are the norm but maybe different contracts for the 'bigger players' would help not destabilise the side if they leave.

If Tiny is going, to be honest we need to start starting Waller more now in the league and use Tiny as an impact sub. We do need Waller up to speed.

Quote:

Edmund Farfalla
The choice:-
Northampton... £xk, Wellingborough Road Balti and Weedon Road Chippy.

Paris... €x+++k, 77 Michelin * restaurants, Moulin Rouge and Moules et Frites everywhere.

Go figure!

Are am not sure Tiny is that sophisticated!

Quote:

Whiston Saint
Are am not sure Tiny is that sophisticated!

Pourquoi pas?

Quote:

andysaint
I am worried that a lot of significant contracts do come up for renewal at once. Last year it was Downey, Wilson and Ashton and this year Tiny, PDJ, Lamb, Myler.

Unfortunately I guess that's what happens when you have a squad of 35ish on a 2 or 3 year rotations.

I agree its poor planning to have the 2 preferred fly halves out of contract at the same time.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

I thought Myler re-signed start of the season.

Quote:

D WEST
I thought Myler re-signed start of the season.

27 Jan 2011

Doesn't say how long for...

Can I just say I hope Tiny doesn't go. People here seem to view it as a done deal.

Quote:

shendy
I think it's only English clubs that can't talk to players before 1st Jan.

So, for example, we wouldn't be able to talk to someone like Corbisiero then?

@TimesRugby
Alex Corbisiero to fill prop shortage at Northampton http://thetim.es/UOUjkH

But Mujati leaving too according to same source



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:26:22:15:28 by DorsetSaint.

That article also says Mujati is on the move, which is much more concerning. Can someone copy the whole thing from across the paywall for those of us without a times subscription?

Don't like the rumour stuff, mostly it's tosh and unsettling. Perhaps Mooj could get the test drivers seat with Ferrari.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/rugbyunion/article3612650.ece

I'm not a subscriber, but this link has a preview bit...

This is what I have been fearing. If I was a betting man I would say it's not tosh - but I live it hope it is.

Conversation between Mooj & Jimmy D 11th November

So Mooj has another year in contract? Silly reporting.

Mark Souster ‏@SousterRugby
Tonga'uiha AND Mujati to leave Northampton and surprise recruit to Franklins Gardens#thetimes

Clegthorpe - Just put that tweet to Mark on Twitter - not expecting a response though! He is saying both Mujati and Tiny are off to Racing though.

Wouldn't read Mujati's response to Downey as a guarantee he has another year after this one. He may have been actually referring to the current year as a way of not prematurely publicly answering the question.

Hopefully it's just silly reporting as Double says though!

If we assume, worst case scenario, that this is true and the Doran-Jones to wasps rumor is also a done deal, what's going to happen to the 3 shirt next year? Is Mercey ready? Surely we'd need at least one more prop just to make up the numbers.

I would be interested if it really was was such a done deal regarding PDJ if Mujati is off. I like Mercey as well.

@SousterRugby (The Times journo) has answered me and said Mujati is leaving for Racing at the end of this season with Tonga'uiha. Apparently Mujati informed Jim of his decision today.

The reality of the uneven playing field is starting to bite really hard if this is all true.

Quote:

Double
Can someone copy the whole thing from across the paywall for those of us without a times subscription?

If we catch anyone doing that they will be banned

Does nobody read what is going on in the land of IPR and Copyright on the Web? You may not like it but it is the Times' living you steal

News International are fair game in my mind.

But not on here.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

Rumour on another site that you are going to steal Garvey from us as well? You heard anything about that your end?

David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

St Owen - you may or may not regard News International as fair game. I think my views on anything controlled by the dirty digger are will known. BUT we cannot condone copyright theft which is what it would effectively be.



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

Well If Racing want to spend the cash there is nothing we can do to stop it. If they both go then i will miss them but i will understand. We have some good replacements that need to get more game time but they will be hard to replace.

Guess that's the problem when you help develop players into some of the best. Others with more money can always come and temp them away.

Thing is it might be a blessing in disguise, Tiny as good as he is still will not likely get any better and does seem to have been found out a bit (a good technical prop gets better with age but one that uses more power than guile can drop off sooner) and Mooj has that back problem that keeps troubling him, who knows if it will get better or worse.

We are lucky that we have some real Quality behind them. Perhaps it will help keep PDJ (who is getting much better this year).

Which is why I said not on here.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

Quote:

BerniesBestFriend
Alex Corbiseiro from the "Madjet" I think you mean!

Sorry. It was late!

now all over the bbc sport site

BBC SPORT



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:11:36:27 by jimmies.

Must say it now looks like this will happen and we will lose BM & ST

i understand that in the end this may well be 'pragmatic' for all concerned, but as a club fan you cannot help but have your favourite players that make you really want to root for your team. rog, JC and now tiny all fall squarely into that bracket for me.

as a club what value do you put on that? its not just emotional 'thaaang' for a supporters, but surely it also impacts the way that club support translates into players wanting to be at the Gardens?

i know i'm just wishing for a different age really......

It is the funny thing about the professinal game of rugby now....back in those rose tinted days - I think the supporters AND players enjoyed it more. Yes there was less money around but I'm certain the Mattie Stewerts, Budges and even young Dawsons had much more fun than the modern pro players

from Aunty click me

This might ruffle some feathers but I wouldn't mind all that much should Tiny move on, he hasn't looked the player he was for about 18 months now and let's face it he isn't getting any younger so fair play to him for getting his pension early.

Mooj on the other hand would be a HUGE loss, top class tightheads are few and far between and are the cornerstone that a good if not great pack of forwards can be built and I honestly can't see anyone in the current squad ready to take that on just of yet, to be honest I can't think of anyone at all who may be available who could do the job Mooj does.

However if these rumours are true then I like to think JM and DW can fill these spots, they struck absolute gold in some of their recruitment especially when it comes to forwards so I will put my trust in them to do so again, in the case of Mooj I will have my fingers crossed!!

Looking at Metro they aren't exactly blessed with props.. Lo Cicero was handy but is getting on, Ducalon is ok but outside that

Maybe they could send us Hernandez in return ?

According to the Chron, Mooj is "very happy" at the Saints

The Chron

----------------------------------------

Please sponsor me for Saints with Heart [www.justgiving.com]

Or Ollie Barkley.

I know most of us aren't surprised by this news but I feel the effect of these departures will have much more of an effect than some posters think.
Prior to any involvement with the Saints my impression was that the teams success was mostly down to the front row. They were big, they were experienced and they were feared by opposing teams. We will now lose those strenghs and whilst I'm sure that there are good youngsters waiting in the wings the fact remains that these prop positions are instumental to the overall success of any team and as such we will be losing two of the best.

I do tend to agree with you Dragon 27, however Saints don’t seem able to turn that dominance in the scrum into a game winning situation in the way they did in the past. Maybe a slight dip in form maybe just that oppositions have worked us out.

Two such high calibre players will certainly be missed if these rumours are true, however they would free up a huge chunk of the salary cap, and with Saints still not having signed a marquee player (to the best of my knowledge) and with some wedge still left in the kitty, I do wonder if this is the start of a whole new strategy?

Rather than a dominant pack I wonder if we will just be going for parity up front and looking to put a backline in place that frightens the bejezzus out of everyone, especially with a new coach coming in?

I'd rather stuff people up front personally Ajack..

Massively stuff them infact - so that when we play the huge European clubs like Perpignan or Ulster we are already talking about the next game once thats won and it takes something like (lets be honest) the Irish national team a full 70 minutes before they get on top and put us away

I'm happy for the welsh to play the sexy rugby - and they've realistically won zip (sry Dragon and Eif)

Give me a massive, steam rolling pack and then clinical backline finishing and we would clean up

I think Mooj leaving is much more of a concern than Tiny.

If we look at things objectively, Tiny hasn't really hit the heights of a couple of seasons ago, and there are a number of AP tightheads who seem to have the wood on him right now.

With regards to salary cap being available, let's not be too hasty to think really big figures. After the U-turn at Saracens, we re-signed him at a point when many others signed renewals and future signings were announced. There might not have been as much in the pot as he would have liked. It could have been a case of, this is what we can offer, but we'll work something out as we go. He had a testimonial last years after only 6 seasons at the club - to top up the salary, maybe?

When you think back to the analysis of the recent Saracens game, it was observed that Saints won the set piece, but Sarries won the breakdown. There weren't that many scrums to dominate in that game. As the game evolves and the scrum is diminished somewhat, it kind of endorses ajacks point about seeking parity up front but having dynamite elsewhere.

Maybe there is a private somewhere with a cunning plan...

EDIT: I forgot to say, that in all this, I'm sorry if he does leave, he's served the club well. And Mooj - I knew very little about him when he arrived, but boy, did he announce himself!

Good servants who, if they do leave, have definitely earned their corn.

Ginger - The Colour of Sexual Rejection



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:27:15:10:30 by Ginger Prince in Dubai.

I am sure many will agree with you Saint Tub, but if you look at various competitions around the world, did Leinster win the H cup or did Quins win the premiership or the Chiefs win the super whatever it is now or did the All Blacks win the world cup and four nations by stuffing everyone at scrum time?

Or might there be a better way? Not that in any way I think Tiny and Mooj or Larry have been anything other than real assets to the club in the time they have been with us. Whilst I agree Wales have won nothing (except the six nations) and the Welsh clubs do very badly in Europe, what exactly have we won of any note?

Via the official twitter feed:

JM confirms T'uiha, Mujati have big offers from another club. We want to keep them but can't compete with French cash pic.twitter.com/JX3repCj

JM: Opens opportunity for other players. We turned them from just good into world class & won't be shortage of props wanting to do the same

JM: Club has strong track record of bringing in potential & turning into international class; we will be doing the same in future

JM: Academy is producing quality; we're looking for players to complement that & who are right for the team going forward

Beat me to it, salty!


Official Saints TwitterTwatter

That sounds like theyre resigned to losing them saltman. oh well, lets move on. Big game this weekend.

Mujati will be harder to replace IMO, maybe time to balance the money we spend in the forwards and spend on a new 10/12 and a winger. I'm sure Waller will step up and expect to see alot more of him for the rest of the season.

Yep, I think they've resigned to it too. Massive game on Friday. I hope all of this provides opportunity to rebuild and improve.

It's in the Chron now too [www.northamptonchron.co.uk]

Via Facebook...

Quote:

Northampton Saints...
At today's media session Jim Mallinder confirmed that Soane Tonga'uiha and Brian Mujati have big offers from another overseas club. We want to keep them but can't compete with the financial muscle of the French clubs.

However this opens opportunity for other players. We turned them from just good into world class and there won't be shortage of props wanting to do the same and playing on either side of Dylan Hartley.

The club has a strong track record of bringing in potential and turning into international class; we will be doing the same in the future.

The Academy is producing quality talent; we're looking for players to complement that and who are right for the team going forward.

Maybe I need to think on it but my first reaction is the big 4/5 year plan has failed and we are now having to start from scratch again. I'm disappointed that we seem to be losing these guys at once and there has been a lack of forward planning with the contracts. We won't win anything unless we can hold on to our top players. Have we done an 'Ireland'? Had our best players and won nothing meaningful?

How many players in the squad and what's the average contract length? It means there's probably 15 players up for contract renewal each year so there has to be a number of first XV players up for renewal each time. To say there's a lack of forward planning on this is daft

hands off Fordy!

That's right Brian. As we've seen many players are on 2+1 contracts it must be a nightmare planning a squad for a 3 or 5year challenge. The only way to do it is to guarantee finding better value in each new joinee compared to the one lost.

Tiny is a brilliant player, but proportionally is his 'value' (ie bang for buck) better the A. Waller's? The gap has undoubtedly narrowed.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

In his early years Tiny's big impact was in his loose play and those unstoppable surges, even sprints sometimes, to the line. Improvements in his scrummaging technique seem to have detracted somewhat from his impact in the loose.

Quote:

andysaint
Maybe I need to think on it but my first reaction is the big 4/5 year plan has failed and we are now having to start from scratch again. I'm disappointed that we seem to be losing these guys at once and there has been a lack of forward planning with the contracts. We won't win anything unless we can hold on to our top players. Have we done an 'Ireland'? Had our best players and won nothing meaningful?

Andy, spot on. 5 years must have been the target and come next season more big names will have gone. Disappointing as means mass recruitment and building again. We missed the boat the yr we lost the home semi.

Neither of these guys were 'Big Names' when they arrived, until West arrived we couldn't begin to imagine how good tiny was going to get.

Mooj wasn't the player he is now either, again Mr West, take a bow.

I'm confident we can develop a new Tiny and Mooj.

Good luck to them both and thanks for the effort, a rugby players career is short and when the offer comes along to make retirement that little bit easier, you have too grasp it with both hands, sentiment doesn't pay the bills, or buy hops in the case of Mooj!

Good luck chaps, it's been a pleasure.

I agree, But they are big names now which means another two seasons of Westy working his magic and developing the replacements.

That is right D West it will be another development year or too. Tigers seem to not have this problem and when they do they have ready made replacements we have to spend more time training them up.

We're still a bit behind Tiggs acadamy-wise. Only a year or so though

Quote:

TonyMay
hands off Fordy!

You can keep him if Sunday was anything to go by. Lamb is the better of the two of them.

Nurse!

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

So, Ajack, the Welsh clubs do very badly in Europe. Check the Scarlets record over the years, unlucky to lose to the Saints and Leicester in semi-finals. Check the Ospreys record over the years, I accept they failed to reach their potential but they invariably qualified for QFs however difficult their pool. Cardiff also had their moments, won the Amlin and failed in the semi against Leicester on a penalty shoot out. Reasonable record I would suggest, just like in most of England, funded by sugar daddies who have since decided to pull back, especially not been able to compete with the ludicrous money available in France.

lets not let this develop into yet another one eyed anglo welsh p - ing high contest.

As you'll read on the Chron's website today, we believe very much that props up and down the country will view this as an opportunity to come in and make their mark.

We're not starting from scratch; that's what we were doing five years ago. Any props who are coming in will know that they will be alongside Dylan Hartley in the front row and having the power coming from Courtney Lawes, Samu Manoa, Tom Wood, Calum Clark et al for at least the next couple of years.

Are we disappointed that we aren't able to match the offers they've had from overseas? Of course, but that is something you'll have to talk to Premiership Rugby about because as things stand we cannot compete with that.

However would it be the end of the world? Of course not - but at least we know what we'd be looking for an have plenty of time to find it.

Good post Chris

Well said that man.