News: PROMOTION AND RELEGATION
By SlimJimmie
January 27 2015
A subject that occupies all supporters from March to September every year. Slim Jimmie outlines some options in a bid to spark some sensible debate on the whole subject.
PROMOTION AND RELEGATION
or “Up and Down Like a Bride’s Nightie!”
It is clear from myriad postings over the years on this and other forums, that some are FOR Relegation and Promotion and some are AGAINST. It seems, however that the issue is here to stay. Whatever your own preference ( I want to keep it, personally) - most rugby supporters that I have spoken to agree that the present situation has unacceptable weaknesses.
Last season, London Welsh were not expected to gain promotion by many outside that great club. Bristol were bookies favourites and had prepared by drafting in early, players with experience of and potential to survive in the higher League.
Because of their late play-off success, London Welsh were left no time at all to recruit before the all-important pre-season planning and training was to take place. They took to the field in a state of “unpreparedness, ” and it was clear by early November that they would struggle. Players must by then have been thinking they shouldn’t embark on a ship that was likely to flounder - a huge negative force against recruitment.
So, there are problems of building a team fit for survival in the Premiership. Add the well-documented issues of funding inequalities - some would say inequities - and you have a “likelihood of failure, ”built into the system. Yes, some clubs, notably Wuss, Exeter, Quins and Saints have managed to leap the gap and survive. Of course, it might well be said they that, over a two-year season, they would not have been relegated. However, the damage done to great clubs like Leeds, West Hartlepool and Rotherham to name but a few, is surely to be avoided. What will happen to London Welsh is yet to be seen.
My personal view is that we owe it to both leagues to at least try to make it a more even playing field for those trying to attain Premiership status. On the one hand, you have Championship clubs that are not wanting promotion and on the other you have Premiership clubs facing a team unprepared for survival at the higher level.
Bi-Annual Promotion/ Relegation.
I would like to hear what rugby supporters think of the idea that we retain Promotion/ Relegation, but it is determined over a two-year cycle. Performance over the two seasons could be aggregated to determine the top four teams in the championship. Playoffs are here to stay, whatever we might think of them, so perhaps a four-team playoff could determine the promoted team instead of the convoluted system currently in operation.
The promoted team would be guaranteed two seasons to build the strength of their performances at the higher level and players might feel more comfortable committing themselves to the team.
Infrastructure issues such as those recently highlighted by London Welsh DOR Justin Burnell, might also be eased over a two season period. Would sponsors be more confident with a two season guarantee?
There are several statistical models that could be employed to determine the aggregated relegation and promotion candidates, but the simplest might be points accrued through league positions at the end of each season. There could still be a Champions Cup for the play-off winners or for the team that tops the Championship League each year - a bit like the one allegedly displayed in a certain North London Club’s trophy cabinet.
OK, so the maths might sound a little complicated but surely, the current system is so stacked against the team trying to survive the leap, both prior to and following promotion, that we should at least debate this or other such proposals.
Needless to say, the situation at the top of the Premiership need not be affected at all.
Pros and Cons as I See It.
Pro
Longer to prepare for promotion possibility
Guarantee of two seasons builds confidence that Sponsors will get longer exposure
Players will feel more able to commit to promoted club
Early season results will not carry such a premium for promoted club
Reduced possibility of “unprepared” team gaining promotion
Opportunity to replace current protracted playoffs in the Championship.
Less likelihood of a strong club being relegated on a one-off poor season or one unduly affected by injury or misfortune
Con
No opportunity for relegated club to “bounce back”
Less likelihood of key players remaining with the relegated club over two seasons.
Slightly more confusing for those mathematically challenged brethren.
My view is that the Pros outweigh the cons but - hey, what do I know?
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Poersonally I'd ditch all the play offs (have a separate money spinner if needed) that would then enable end April to be end of league and thus give more time to adjust.
Flatten the money allocation and also give sides n years to get grounds up to snuff.
Top of the League 2014-2015 Season
Seems to me that this one thing alone would not commend it to the current PRL clubs.
We should also perhaps keep in mind that the status quo for the premiership - just twelve clubs suits the RFU and the international calender - just fine.
It is not just about mechanisms -it should be about what is best for the development of the game and in that context did anyone else see Dean Ryan's piece on the Championship withering on the vine.
To me with some championship clubs not being interested in promotion - there has to be a case for an expanded premiership-not even or necessarily ring fenced.
There has also to be some security for teams both in terms of security on inclusion or promotion and also on relegation or de -selection. The two years grace on promotion makes sense - but only if you get the right team in the first place.
There are no quick answers - sometimes you just have to work through various scenarios /solutions - ruling some out etc. until you get one that might work -keep trying John - and thanks for raising the issue in such a thoughtful way.
One easy solution to my mind is for all the other clubs to be given a smaller amount and the promoted club get the same or even more than all the others, this would help on two levels to close the gap.
London Welsh have really struggled and as has been noted were not really expected to gain promotion or seemingly were prepared for it, but how often is this the case, how have other teams faired in the resent past?
Well done to Slim Jimmie for starting a good topic for debate.
The Championship should be a properly funded competition for semi-professional clubs fully recognised in it's own right with promotion/relegation throughout the lower league levels.
As mentioned above if the play-offs are dispensed with a larger professional league (14 clubs?)could be accommodated within the time available - with no league games played coincidental with Internationals.
Format 1 would be a round robin, three weeks long, top team goes to the AP, other three go to the Championship. Three weeks gives enough time to be on TV and gives advertisers money...
Format 2 could be the same thing with top 2 from the pool going to the AP, but my alternative is to run it similar to the LV. Each AP team plays each championship team over a two leg game, but do NOT play the team for your own (current) league. Then the highest placed AP team is "safe" and stays up, the lowest placed Championship team stays down. Highest Championship team plays lowest AP team for promotion/relegation, over one or two legs. This could run for as long as 5-6 rounds, so plenty of sponsor opportunities there!
A third, unrelated possibility is to take an approach I see to remember from the Swiss round ball leagues. Each team in the league only plays each other once. At the end of that, the league is split in half, with the top half playing another round robin for the title, and the bottom half playing to avoid relegation. Play the Championship (and maybe even the AP) like that, and whoever comes up should deserve it!
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There's something fundamentally wrong to my mind with 'parachuting' in a group of individuals who had nothing to with gaining the promotion. Then added to this there is the slightly murky dual contract system whereby conflict of interests could occur with the parent club being in the same division.
Under the current system the difference in standards will never be closed unless a more generous financial packet is forthcoming for the Championship clubs. I am totally opposed to pulling up the drawbridge against relegation to create an isolated franchise. Pay the Championship clubs more and get a stronger national game.
Added to this, for this greater security, all Premiership Clubs MUST achieve an average of 20 EQP's in their match squads with their Premiership games - penalty no RFU/PRL funding and points reduction penalty for the following season.
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@robsmithrugby
Exeter and Wuss are good examples. You have therefore to demonstrate your credentials in year 1. Because even if you are relegated you will be strong enough to bounce back. Some parity of funding might help admittedly.
I am not convinced by the Welsh model, nor Rotherham. You cannot survive on a shoestring.
I doubt Welsh expected promotion and so were once more not planning adequately.
Overall, PRL does a good job in my opinion. But it's structure (A,B and P shares - and what benefits they confer) could do with an overhaul. There is a confusion between equity and participation when it comes to the distribution of funds; and it is certainly the case that promoteds clubs are at a disadvantage, particularly in the short term.
But if a Championship club is serious about competing in the Premiership it must prepare in advance. London Welsh are demonstrating right now what happens when you don't prepare and they will be relegated - unless some other team suffers a massive points deduction
Yes it requires money but, to be frank, substantial funding (either generated internally or invested) is required to compete in the Premiership anyway. Its a growing professional sport.
It should not just be a place for no hopers and the recently relegated to lick their wounds and regroup.
Imagine a league of say ten clubs where even the lowest gates average say 5- 6000. Then we are starting to have something both viable and vibrant.
The Championship is not commercially viable and even if the RFU were to throw money at it (which is what I think you are suggesting) where are the minimum 5-6,000 fans going to materialise from?
So where does that money come from? Well less money to all the other teams in the premiership, possible but there seems an opinion that they are at a disadvantage in Europe anyway.
More International matches, would generate more income but already causes problems within the current season.
Scrap or offer less funding to youth development, the newly formed Ladies professional side, money given to clubs in lower leagues, not sure any of those really improve the game as a whole.
Not sure there are any easy answers to this one simple problem, let alone all the others.
Participation in the Premiership should have a higher weighting and shareholdings a lower weighting when it comes to handing out the money. Probably easier to say than implement but I believe that is where the answer lies.
I also think that the onerous requirements for a certain level of stadium facilities should be applied over (say) three years - that would help promoted teams.
But the one thing that should be insisted on (and isn't) is a suitable playing surface.
How about using some of the rumoured extra cash from selling the 6N to BT/Sky and loaning the promoted club some development money?
Photo Gallery
North: Newcastle Falcons, Rotherham, Leeds and Sale
Midlands: Leicester, Northampton, Coventry Wasps, Worcester
South West: Gloucester, Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Cornish Pirates and (possibly) Jersey
London and South East: Quins, Sarries, London Irish, London Welsh
Apologies if I've unintentionally missed out other teams but if my maths are right that makes a total of 18 clubs.
Ringfence the Prem league for a suitable period to allow clubs to bed in and rebuild. Then adjust as necessary.
It has been rightly mentioned that there are good championship clubs who don't want to play in the Prem ( Bedford for example ) - these clubs act as useful feeders for regional Prem clubs.