Saints v Sarries Match Day Thread

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Come on Saints, we need a strong second half.

Carley having a shocker. Two different rules for back chat, back foot and playing advantage.

And capulation once again, Saints sound clueless

Poor for Cobus, could see that a mile off!

Not sure how the Big T yellow card is any different to the french one which wasn’t given last week, by the same ref!

Without biggar or Francis we really miss game management and tactical nouse though it has to be said

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Saintfanh
Carley having a shocker. Two different rules for back chat, back foot and playing advantage.

And not straights

Very poor lineouts

1 overthrow by Fish when we had 13 led to a try

Marshall then overthrew or mistimed jumping on 2 more in attacking positions

Losing run is getting beyond a joke. I doubt we will finish in top 4.

Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.

Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

Not able to see the game so cannot really pass judgement. Only thing I will say is that Fortress Franklin’s, how I miss thee

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

Will never know whether the constant interventions of the TMO (the infamous Sean Davey) were at his behest or Carley's but Carley at no time seemed to be fully in control. There were 105 minutes of play ! The two yellows (Bean's looked preposterous) proved to be the turning point but nevertheless, as mentioned above Saints had opportunities aplenty to win the game and failed due to basic errors when in good attacking positions and some very lax tackling on occasions, We simply seem unable to keep composed when near the try line and it is so frustrating and disappointing. Biggar's injury looked bad although I thought Mallinder was an able deputy at 10.

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

I have said the last two weeks that until we get two locks we will not win, it is the engine room and we are down to 6/7 choice.
So probably will lose next week too.

Oh well at least we might look better when the weather is dry and sunny !!
On the bright side we came out firing for 8 minutes. Sadly after that point we looked clueless with incredibly poor basic skills on show.

How bad was Dans injury? Was hoping to see him playing at HQ next week

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chappers_saint

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

We just have to disagree. Skelton has a field day, one straight missed tackles but Coles led to a 50 yard gain (he’s young and has a thankless task)

Ludlam big upgrade on Eadie

Lawes and Api (plus Moon and Ribeye) big upgrade on Coles and Bean

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Dave Jackson
How bad was Dans injury? Was hoping to see him playing at HQ next week

Looked like medial ligament to me

6-8 weeks if lucky

Saracens made fewer errors than we did and we really need to start scoring from 5 yards out. Starting to wonder if we need to start going for drop goals when we get close because 3 points are better than 0!

Thought Dingwall was good and Mallinder showed he can still fill in more than adequately at 10.

Hope Biggar’s injury isn’t too bad.

That Sarries kicked the ball out at the end rather than going for goal gave us a bonus point too. Pretty sure they could have scored that if they had wanted and opened up the points difference to 8.

Thought Taylor looked good when he came on. A rare off day for Cobus.

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

We just have to disagree. Skelton has a field day, one straight missed tackles but Coles led to a 50 yard gain (he’s young and has a thankless task)

Ludlam big upgrade on Eadie

Lawes and Api (plus Moon and Ribeye) big upgrade on Coles and Bean

Probably best to ignore chappers ( I do) - ridiculous comments .

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StPo
Thought Taylor looked good when he came on. A rare off day for Cobus.

Cobus a great athlete and player, not a great 9

Yet another performance where we cannot hold onto a lead and some of our tackling in a defensive position is atrocious. Too many tackles that were totally mistimed and only half tackles allowing Saracens field position and pressure onto our back line.

Officials again were not good and some of the decisions totally bewildering!!! Beans yellow a joke considering the player was on way to ground and bean had tried to tackle bu5 landed on top.

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Saint For Life

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

We just have to disagree. Skelton has a field day, one straight missed tackles but Coles led to a 50 yard gain (he’s young and has a thankless task)

Ludlam big upgrade on Eadie

Lawes and Api (plus Moon and Ribeye) big upgrade on Coles and Bean

Probably best to ignore chappers ( I do) - ridiculous comments .

Why get offensive? It sounded like Mallinder, Dingers and Coles had great games and stepped up to the mark with Wood and T putting in hard shifts.

Why are my comments ridiculous? You dont see me ridiculing you or others do you?

Bean made direct contact with Wigglesworth's head. As the laws stand, where exactly did Carley go wrong with giving a yellow card?

So we lost to a bunch of cheaters

So what

Disgrace that this game even went ahead

I am disgusted by rugby and glad I boycotted this game

We’re the sarries players as bad as the radio commentators said

[quote Saint]So we lost to a bunch of cheaters

So what

Disgrace that this game even went ahead

I am disgusted by rugby and glad I boycotted this game[/quote
Quite agree sir. We should all be lined up and shot. But even that’s too good for us.

[quote The Bard][quote Saint]So we lost to a bunch of cheaters

So what

Disgrace that this game even went ahead

I am disgusted by rugby and glad I boycotted this game[/quote
Quite agree sir. We should all be lined up and shot. But even that’s too good for us.[/quote]

Glad you agree

Sarries are a cancer which needs to be removed from the game

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Gold stand steward
We’re the sarries players as bad as the radio commentators said

Yep. Their coaches were screaming on the sidelines throughout the game. And the players were screaming and whooping and hollering every Saints mistake (so doing it a lot!).

I’ve no problem with players celebrating their own team’s successes but it seems really crass to crow so loudly over the opposition’s misfortunes. I know that fans do it (and Sarries fans should have been told to ‘be nice to Saints’) but I expect more professional behaviour from a team. I would hate for our players and management to behave in such a way. Saracens have no class. I had been feeling a bit sorry for them but their conduct today reminded me why I didn’t like them or their culture.

Bad result today. Same old mistakes from our lads, atrocious officiating and general hoodoo over Sarries did not make for pleasant viewing. Onwards.

Just out of interest WP, you state that anyone sensible could see this coming during 6 Nations. You are clearly counting yourself out then as you thought we would win 3 out of the last 4 ; at least that's what you predicted !

The game should never have been allowed to go ahead. They are cheats add behaved like school boy bullies, from the coaching team to the players in the pitch. I certainly won’t miss them next season. This game should never have been allowed to go ahead, I was going to forfeit the game today, but wanted to come out and support the boys and hopefully celebrate a Saints victory. Same old mistakes but we are down to our bare bones now within the squad and didn’t help losing Dan B early doors. Why was Callum Clark off and replaced with a hooker?

Didn’t watch or listen for a change as had other priorities today and only sneaking peeks at Tommy Vickers twitter updates. Great start and despite the lead feared the worst when Dan went off as it proved but seeimingly not the reasons I had anticipated.

Must confess I came on here tonight with a bit of trepidation thinking it would be all doom and gloom. Not as bad as I was expecting and if anyone wants to see how thoroughly decent we are on here take a peek at the comments on the Saints Facebook update... Jeez! Boyd lacking passion which is reflected in the team, needs to go now, etc, etc.

Tough time for the boys no doubt.
As mentioned above players like Coles are supposed to be serving there apprenticeship, but are being thrust in to the deep end.
They’ve got to keep together and keep at it. The cavalry will return and some players struggling for form will come good, but they have to stick together and keep the morale up.
There is no doubt that the strength of the squad has been brutally exposed. But as a supporter I personally believe that we have to go through this tough patch for the development of the Acadmey guys we are bringing through. It’s not all roses in the Prem, and if you are 5% off you will get exposed.
They will come good, there is so genuine class in those young lads.
So let’s support them along the way, through good and bad.

Thought Harry was excellent today and his try was a thing of beauty.

Sadly some poor errors in critical moments cost us a game we could and should have won.

No lack of passion from our boys. Lack of basic skills from some. Lack of savvy from leaders.

I think that many will conentrate on the negatives however it was an improvement on previous seasons.

Paul Hill caught my eye. Scrums were at least even and he made some hard carries. His form is getting back to where it was when he got his England call up.

Dingwall also impressed me. He made a couple fo big tackles and his leadership potential was obvious. For a young guy he was communication well and organising things in defence.

We need to tidy up the silly mistakes and just be a bit more clinical.

Take away two silly yellows which cost us 12. One silly pass which cost us 5 more. Different result. Fine margins. They all did their best. Sarries are still a fine side still. Lacked a bit of quality in the grunt work I think. Ah well

So frustrating, I didn't expect anything out of this game, but this was a defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. The Bean & Big T yellows were the turning point but we were still in it when they returned. The intercept try you could say was the difference between the loss and a win and we gifted a try from a set piece error. That said there was plenty of time after their last score to win the game, they were trying to force the game which increased the handling errors when patience was needed. Aghhh!

A squad with simply too many average players. Sad to say it’s not they are young, they simply don’t have the quality to compete at this level.

Which makes our recruitment even more concerning or the lack of it!!?

You have to also seriously question Boyd and the coaches. Our pack is seriously under powered even if you add Lawes into the mix. We can’t score from a rolling maul anymore or defend one.

Lost count of so many basic errors, need to invest in a skills coach!!

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Hollywood JK
A squad with simply too many average players. Sad to say it’s not they are young, they simply don’t have the quality to compete at this level.
Which makes our recruitment even more concerning or the lack of it!!?

You have to also seriously question Boyd and the coaches. Our pack is seriously under powered even if you add Lawes into the mix. We can’t score from a rolling maul anymore or defend one.

Lost count of so many basic errors, need to invest in a skills coach!!

I personally think this a little bit of a over reaction!

I was amazed how little faith you have in your once all-conquering maul. It made the interception try a bit predictable. No idea how you managed to lose that after a 12 point start and us losing 3 of our best players in the first half.

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Brackleysaint

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Hollywood JK
A squad with simply too many average players. Sad to say it’s not they are young, they simply don’t have the quality to compete at this level.
Which makes our recruitment even more concerning or the lack of it!!?

You have to also seriously question Boyd and the coaches. Our pack is seriously under powered even if you add Lawes into the mix. We can’t score from a rolling maul anymore or defend one.

Lost count of so many basic errors, need to invest in a skills coach!!

I personally think this a little bit of a over reaction!

I tend to agree. Saints have chosen to go down a certain path. Young and relatively inexperienced coaches (bar Boyd) and players. Boyd has stated before he wants Saints to develop players and coaches in house. Perhaps this is at the request of the board. As such we will go through difficult periods while the development process takes place. However I do think we should be doing better than we are. I wonder how long Boyd will be here for? Is his job to solely sort the mess Jim created, set us on a certain path and retire? Will he be here after his first initial contract has ended?

Gold stand steward
Yes they were where we sat. We had a gang of 12 or so sneering loud mouthed drunks in front of us who spent most of the match offensively commenting on Saints players, their mistakes and even laughed at Dan Biggars injury. Oh for the powers that be to ring fence the Championship next season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:29:20:20:41 by stjj.

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stjj
Yes they were where we sat. We had a gang of 12 or so sneering loud mouthed drunks in front of us who spent most of the match offensively commenting on Saints players, their mistakes and even laughed at Dan Biggars injury. Oh for the powers that be to ring fence the Championship next season.

Not all all surprised - in my experience Saracens have attracted exactly the type of arrogant odious people that their toxic culture deserves. Just got to see their board or comments on this thread to see the type of people who revel in cheating

I boycotted today’s game and reading the reports and comments on there makes me think it’s time to give up on the sport

the whole affair, botched penalties, continued arrogance of Sarries and their fans has really affected my love of the game

For Mark Darbin to say we must “hug a Sarrie” was a bitter pill. I want to know why it was ok by the chairmen to sweep this cancerous clubs misdemeanours under the carpet

I am so disgusted by rugby’s lack of proper action on them I am seriously considering not renewing my season ticket and giving up on the game

I'm no doctor but I saw Dan filling up with petrol, then queued up behind him and he was moving without any noticeable limp/discomfort so I'm hopeful it looked worse than it is.

Noticeable lack of leadership again, esp after Biggar had to depart.

Thought Tonks acquitted himself well, and Coles continues to impress. Bean out of his depth. Mallinder did admirably, though prone to odd brainless moment - overplaying in our 22 - got a great boot, use it to clear your lines.

Is that 5 points from a possible 10 against Sarries this season? Prob would have taken that. Just the manner of the defeats that worries me most. Defence has fallen off.

I’m amazed you didn’t have the water cannons and machine guns ready for us. And to have the downright cheek to win with a team of kids who aren’t even old enough to buy an ice cream is simply not cricket.

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The Bard
I’m amazed you didn’t have the water cannons and machine guns ready for us. And to have the downright cheek to win with a team of kids who aren’t even old enough to buy an ice cream is simply not cricket.

And that’s why every decent rugby fan thinks Sarries are a bunch of &&@&&@@&

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fleetg
Just out of interest WP, you state that anyone sensible could see this coming during 6 Nations. You are clearly counting yourself out then as you thought we would win 3 out of the last 4 ; at least that's what you predicted !

before injury crisis... I then said expect us to do @#$%& until after 6N...

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The Bard
I’m amazed you didn’t have the water cannons and machine guns ready for us. And to have the downright cheek to win with a team of kids who aren’t even old enough to buy an ice cream is simply not cricket.

Doncaster is a great trip

Sarries won today fair and square.. Their team and supporters might mirror soccers fans, but that’s their choice, and their culture.

What they do have is a winning mentality that we can only dream of.

We need to look at own shambolic performance, basic errors, poor set piece.

It sums up our current mindset. Sarries down to 14 men, 5 metre line out. Just hit your man and driving maul scrum, try and game won.

Instead, it’s thrown in not straight and the game is over.. You have to perform under pressure.

That would never of happened in Dorian‘s West day. No coincidence why Sales Sharks are going so well!!

I listened to commentary today on Radio Northampton and decided that was probably the last time. Right from the start Lennie was officials bashing and by the time I switched off and opened a tin of paint to sit and watch drying he was just dribbling incoherent words and frankly was an embarrassment and should have received the shepherds crook. Doubtful that I will bother with a radio commentary anymore .

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Hollywood JK
Sarries won today fair and square.. Their team and supporters might mirror soccers fans, but that’s their choice, and their culture.
What they do have is a winning mentality that we can only dream of.

We need to look at own shambolic performance, basic errors, poor set piece.

It sums up our current mindset. Sarries down to 14 men, 5 metre line out. Just hit your man and driving maul scrum, try and game won.

Instead, it’s thrown in not straight and the game is over.. You have to perform under pressure.

That would never of happened in Dorian‘s West day. No coincidence why Sales Sharks are going so well!!

It did happen Hollywood you must have a short memory. Our pack in the last throes of Jim & Dorien’s reign we’re underpowered and poor at the set piece. They continued flogging the same dead horse game plan that was successful years earlier without the personnel to carry it out

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Gold stand steward
We’re the sarries players as bad as the radio commentators said

That would be that bastion of impartiality that is Radio Northampton. FWIW one of the teams was continuously warned about backchat through the game and the referee even had to caution a player that he would be sent off if he spoke like that again. Not sure it was Saracens though?

I thought it was a tough game between two slightly under-strength teams struggling for continuity but even so there was some decent rugby on display. I hope Biggar is ok and felt that Mallinder played well at 10. All the best for the rest of the season.

@stjj I'm guessing you'll be reporting those supporters in front of you, If not I wonder why not?
I don't believe that that sort of behaviour is acceptable and am sorry that Saracens supporters behaved like that. Equally if no one complains nothing is going to change. I'm sure the majority of all supporters dislike their fellow supporters behaving poorly as much as the opposition supporters do. You'll know where they were sitting so you should have no trouble reporting them. If it's serious enough I'd expect them not to be able to visit Franklins Gardens again and quite right too.

Our own worst enemy today, Sarries were there for the taking and still look well below their best. Good emotional reaction from the Exeter game but let ourselves down in key moments. To be expected with so many missing and number of academy lads out there but it isn't half frustrating.

Plenty to build on but NEED to find a way of cutting down our errors.

I think the difference today was game control more than anything else in very marginal errors.
2 x yellow cards that were pointless a tackle with a player virtually on the floor at best removes a player from a defensive line unnecessarily. A slap down by the line with no score likely is a get out of freebie for the attacking side.
Failing to slow down the game with two players off is strange.

From a Saracens fan I see we are not so popular here but personally I hope you get your composure, and get the big reward at the end of the season.

Just watched the highlights on BT. I do hope you’ll deal with the gentleman who made such a lovely gesture to Ben Earl after he scored.

Difficult one really, there was some pretty unsavoury behaviour all over the park.

Fundamentally it was very subpar from Northampton, and there was definitely a win there for the taking if we had our heads on straight. How many times do we have to sit on the 5m and make a basic handling or passing error? We gave away 2,3 maybe 4 good scoring opportunities there through either a lack of patience or a proper lack of basic skills.

The TV coverage did show some fairly loutish Sarries fans but that's nothing new.

For anyone who argues those yellow cards were not warranted, I suggested you familiarise yourself with the laws of the fine game that we support. As infuriating as they were, they were entirely legitimate.

I am under no illusions that Saracens are playing with a team that's financed inappropriately, so were the field level, I think it would have been a different outcome, but we should be very disappointed to have not snagged that game. Our defence has shown no real improvement at all, and whilst I know it's early days, we look like a school team in organisation at times. I am a huge, huge fan of Teimana but he's not the captain we need.

Glynn looked sharp, I hope he gets a start. Bean played his guts out to be fair but there seems to be a skill ceiling there. Big T was the typical lottery with handling skills. I think Taylor actually slowed the game down when he came on. Lineout throws have been genuinely pathetic for a long time now - if we can't secure our own ball what hope is there?

We had a huge amount of possession and so little to show. Just disappointing all round.

A final point though - I believe we have dodged a bullet with Kpoku if those signing fall-through rumours are to be believed. An impressive athlete but what boorish behaviour to cheer like that after a dodgy throw?! A bit too much of that all round from the Saracens players if I must be honest, but it's hardly like they have much stature in the ethics and morals department anyway so I don't know what else I expected.

But WP you predicted just a day or so ago that we would beat Saracens today so just when did the injury crisis commence ?
Got to just love those that are still right even when they are wrong.

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chappers_saint

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Saint For Life

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint

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Wilson Pickett

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chappers_saint
Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

We just have to disagree. Skelton has a field day, one straight missed tackles but Coles led to a 50 yard gain (he’s young and has a thankless task)

Ludlam big upgrade on Eadie

Lawes and Api (plus Moon and Ribeye) big upgrade on Coles and Bean

Probably best to ignore chappers ( I do) - ridiculous comments .

Why get offensive? It sounded like Mallinder, Dingers and Coles had great games and stepped up to the mark with Wood and T putting in hard shifts.

Why are my comments ridiculous? You dont see me ridiculing you or others do you?

“It sounded like .............. “ !! !! So you did not watch the game ? Clearly my comment was obvious rather than offensive . Certainly supports my advice to WP .

Frustrated. Very frustrated. Aargh!

For what it’s worth: well played Sarries. Punished our mistakes, and capitalised on opportunities. I mean this genuinely rather than with sarcasm- hope you enjoy the championship, we had some great games there, and suspect you’ll come back better for it.

Pleased that the scrum went better than it has of late.

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Hollywood JK
Sarries won today fair and square.. Their team and supporters might mirror soccers fans, but that’s their choice, and their culture.
What they do have is a winning mentality that we can only dream of.

We need to look at own shambolic performance, basic errors, poor set piece.

It sums up our current mindset. Sarries down to 14 men, 5 metre line out. Just hit your man and driving maul scrum, try and game won.

Instead, it’s thrown in not straight and the game is over.. You have to perform under pressure.

That would never of happened in Dorian‘s West day. No coincidence why Sales Sharks are going so well!!

Errrrrr if you wanted to see a shambolic pack see Saints under Dorian from 2015

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fleetg
But WP you predicted just a day or so ago that we would beat Saracens today so just when did the injury crisis commence ?
Got to just love those that are still right even when they are wrong.

You mean in the predictor? I almost always go Saints to not be negative.

Anyway I’m not sure this is an area of strength, remind me your prediction last year? No chance top 4? After every loss trolling ‘top 4 Wilson’

Top 4 done


This year top 2 maybe top 4

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ScrummageMachine
I think the difference today was game control more than anything else in very marginal errors.
2 x yellow cards that were pointless a tackle with a player virtually on the floor at best removes a player from a defensive line unnecessarily. A slap down by the line with no score likely is a get out of freebie for the attacking side.
Failing to slow down the game with two players off is strange.

From a Saracens fan I see we are not so popular here but personally I hope you get your composure, and get the big reward at the end of the season.

Nothing to do with your fans - it is your club which is not popular. Hardly surprising given that it has corrupted the premiership competition for at least the last 3 years and even worse continues to do so this season .

Surprised there hasn't been a bit more comment on the officials. Their allowing of Sarries to be frequently offside was a killer and as for our two yellow cards - ridiculous.

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Welby1977
I'm no doctor but I saw Dan filling up with petrol,

Well that won't do his indigestion much good!

I know it is St Davids Day today, but surely that is OTT to be a fire breathing dragon?

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St Marcus
Surprised there hasn't been a bit more comment on the officials. Their allowing of Sarries to be frequently offside was a killer and as for our two yellow cards - ridiculous.

I have only seen the highlights so cannot comment on the frequently offside bit but certainly no more than we were in the highlights. As for the yellow cards all four were correct and were discussed through with the TMO the high tackle could have been a red but the mitigating circumstances were taken into account.

Probably the biggest decision was to disallow the Sarries "try" as he the tackle was deemed to have been completed and a second movement rather than momentum taking him over the line. I think it was the right decision but I have certainly seen them given. Strange no one else mentioned this particular decision.

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St Marcus
Surprised there hasn't been a bit more comment on the officials. Their allowing of Sarries to be frequently offside was a killer and as for our two yellow cards - ridiculous.

Carley kept looking back at the screen whilst Vunipola was preparing for the conversion after Earl's intercept try, it was if he was unsure about something and was hoping for another look, seemed very strange.

Can we just forget about Saracens; they are what they are, nobody likes them and very few tears will be shed outside Barnet when they are relegated at the end of the season. Hopefull Leinster will do a job on them in April.

More pertinent are Saints own problems. Putting aside the obvious injury issues and International absentees, they have other more significant matters in the longer term.

Young players rarely become great players overnight. Painter, Dingwall, Strachan, Mallinder, Hutchinson, Mitchell, Grayson, Ludlam will all have off days when they will learn hard lessons.

I will not name names, but we do have other players who are not really up to the mark to start in the Premiership or European Cup, good squad men though they might be. Some will get better in time, some are just the wrong side of the hill, some need some TLC, some need a kick up the backside.

Leadership is still key and I don't see as much of it as I would like. Harrison and Wood lead by example but they do not appear to be able to verbalise on the pitch. Biggar can be inspirational but as we saw in the 6N does have a habit of losing his rag. When you have a ref who takes a schoolmaster approach such as yesterday then as Cobus discovered, it is very easy to get on the wrong side of officialdom.

Bearing in mind that Chris Boyd appears likely to leave at the end of next season then who will take over the reins ? I only add this point because I understand that Chris does not have his family over here and I am sure is missing home - who wouldn't !

The daft thing is that this slump during the 6N was fairly predictable but apart from some losing bonus points very little has been achieved. Worcester next friday will be really difficult as due to the Saracens effect, Wuss will play with no fear.

Where on earth where we will be after Round 22 I have no idea....................

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Aberavon Wizard
Can we just forget about Saracens; they are what they are, nobody likes them and very few tears will be shed outside Barnet when they are relegated at the end of the season. Hopefull Leinster will do a job on them in April.
More pertinent are Saints own problems. Putting aside the obvious injury issues and International absentees, they have other more significant matters in the longer term.

Young players rarely become great players overnight. Painter, Dingwall, Strachan, Mallinder, Hutchinson, Mitchell, Grayson, Ludlam will all have off days when they will learn hard lessons.

I will not name names, but we do have other players who are not really up to the mark to start in the Premiership or European Cup, good squad men though they might be. Some will get better in time, some are just the wrong side of the hill, some need some TLC, some need a kick up the backside.

Leadership is still key and I don't see as much of it as I would like. Harrison and Wood lead by example but they do not appear to be able to verbalise on the pitch. Biggar can be inspirational but as we saw in the 6N does have a habit of losing his rag. When you have a ref who takes a schoolmaster approach such as yesterday then as Cobus discovered, it is very easy to get on the wrong side of officialdom.

Bearing in mind that Chris Boyd appears likely to leave at the end of next season then who will take over the reins ? I only add this point because I understand that Chris does not have his family over here and I am sure is missing home - who wouldn't !

The daft thing is that this slump during the 6N was fairly predictable but apart from some losing bonus points very little has been achieved. Worcester next friday will be really difficult as due to the Saracens effect, Wuss will play with no fear.

Where on earth where we will be after Round 22 I have no idea....................

Can we just forget about referees too. We don’t lose because of referees. Over the course of a match, a month, a season, all teams get things about the same. I know we’re one eyed, all fans are but we don’t lose because of the officiating. We lose because we’re not good enough on that day. We’re in our “levelling out” period in my opinion. Our position at the top wasn’t likely to last and it hasn’t. The Premiership is closing up as it did last season. Exeter are clear leaders and I think Sale are next best. We’re in the next half a dozen or so. I think we’ll be top 6. After today’s round probably 4th or 5th so we are finding our level. We need to find our season again though. I remember in the previous regime at times “where might our next win be”? Just having those thoughts again to be honest. It’s not referees, it’s us!

Agree with the 'levelling out' idea. We flattered to deceive in the league in the early part of the season with good looking wins against a poor Tigers side and decent efforts against Quins and Gloucester. We've scraped a couple and got pumped by Exeter.

Its the manner of recent defeats at home that bother me most. Lack of leadership on the pitch and a drop off in skills, defence, and discipline. I'm in no doubt every effort is being made by the coaches and players to address issues but, boy, its frustrating at present.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:03:01:10:09:38 by ElySaint.

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Saint For Life

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chappers_saint

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Could blame the ref or an annoying Sarries but that is 3 losses on the bounce now where poor execution, grasp of the basics and lack of a robust game plan has cost us.
Quins just beat Exeter which devalues our last week performance further. I think a top 9 is a best bet right now.

Shameful and poor, what is worse is that Boyd seems content with the squad??

We are third in the table. We are 1 win off second.


This was predicted by anyone sensible during the 6N.


I think we now go on a 4 game winning run.

If we were outclassed due to those missing I'd agree but we could and should have won that game, we were poor once again with the basic skills that killed any try opportunities.

On today's display we wont beat Wasps, Irish or Bath

We just have to disagree. Skelton has a field day, one straight missed tackles but Coles led to a 50 yard gain (he’s young and has a thankless task)

Ludlam big upgrade on Eadie

Lawes and Api (plus Moon and Ribeye) big upgrade on Coles and Bean

Probably best to ignore chappers ( I do) - ridiculous comments .

Why get offensive? It sounded like Mallinder, Dingers and Coles had great games and stepped up to the mark with Wood and T putting in hard shifts.

Why are my comments ridiculous? You dont see me ridiculing you or others do you?

“It sounded like .............. “ !! !! So you did not watch the game ? Clearly my comment was obvious rather than offensive . Certainly supports my advice to WP .

I listened on the radio hence....listened! Reading the comments they are in line with everyone else so not sure why you are picking me out to rubbish. It's a forum where I'm within my rights to offer my opinions, i've said nothing offence to anyone.

Care to offer your own views of the game? I'd like to see them given you are yet to offer any.

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smitferbrainz

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Aberavon Wizard
Can we just forget about Saracens; they are what they are, nobody likes them and very few tears will be shed outside Barnet when they are relegated at the end of the season. Hopefull Leinster will do a job on them in April.
More pertinent are Saints own problems. Putting aside the obvious injury issues and International absentees, they have other more significant matters in the longer term.

Young players rarely become great players overnight. Painter, Dingwall, Strachan, Mallinder, Hutchinson, Mitchell, Grayson, Ludlam will all have off days when they will learn hard lessons.

I will not name names, but we do have other players who are not really up to the mark to start in the Premiership or European Cup, good squad men though they might be. Some will get better in time, some are just the wrong side of the hill, some need some TLC, some need a kick up the backside.

Leadership is still key and I don't see as much of it as I would like. Harrison and Wood lead by example but they do not appear to be able to verbalise on the pitch. Biggar can be inspirational but as we saw in the 6N does have a habit of losing his rag. When you have a ref who takes a schoolmaster approach such as yesterday then as Cobus discovered, it is very easy to get on the wrong side of officialdom.

Bearing in mind that Chris Boyd appears likely to leave at the end of next season then who will take over the reins ? I only add this point because I understand that Chris does not have his family over here and I am sure is missing home - who wouldn't !

The daft thing is that this slump during the 6N was fairly predictable but apart from some losing bonus points very little has been achieved. Worcester next friday will be really difficult as due to the Saracens effect, Wuss will play with no fear.

Where on earth where we will be after Round 22 I have no idea....................

Can we just forget about referees too. We don’t lose because of referees. Over the course of a match, a month, a season, all teams get things about the same. I know we’re one eyed, all fans are but we don’t lose because of the officiating. We lose because we’re not good enough on that day. We’re in our “levelling out” period in my opinion. Our position at the top wasn’t likely to last and it hasn’t. The Premiership is closing up as it did last season. Exeter are clear leaders and I think Sale are next best. We’re in the next half a dozen or so. I think we’ll be top 6. After today’s round probably 4th or 5th so we are finding our level. We need to find our season again though. I remember in the previous regime at times “where might our next win be”? Just having those thoughts again to be honest. It’s not referees, it’s us!

I would disagree over the course of a match it evens itself out every week. Decisions made by the officials really influence the momentum of a game and even if these are not match deciding (Quins v Exeter yesterday) they still can indirectly influence the outcome. There are significant inconsistencies with decision making currently and being on the wrong end of a poor decision(s) can be critical irrespective of how the team are playing. Over a long period I would agree however, although those teams at the wrong end of the table tend to not get a lot going there way generally.

As a fan all we can ask for is consistency and think we are in a real poor period of officialdom and I don't think this is due to poor quality of officials. The laws are complex and even with the luxury of endless angles and replays there is still debate. The elite refs are probably better than ever but they are hamstrung by directives by the various ruling bodies of the game. Lets get back to reffing the laws and they are and not have a favour of month ones they are going to concentrate on or ignore. Let the set piece be clean, ref the breakdown and offside laws vigorously, this will create space and a better spectacle IMO

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Walks11

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smitferbrainz

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Aberavon Wizard
Can we just forget about Saracens; they are what they are, nobody likes them and very few tears will be shed outside Barnet when they are relegated at the end of the season. Hopefull Leinster will do a job on them in April.
More pertinent are Saints own problems. Putting aside the obvious injury issues and International absentees, they have other more significant matters in the longer term.

Young players rarely become great players overnight. Painter, Dingwall, Strachan, Mallinder, Hutchinson, Mitchell, Grayson, Ludlam will all have off days when they will learn hard lessons.

I will not name names, but we do have other players who are not really up to the mark to start in the Premiership or European Cup, good squad men though they might be. Some will get better in time, some are just the wrong side of the hill, some need some TLC, some need a kick up the backside.

Leadership is still key and I don't see as much of it as I would like. Harrison and Wood lead by example but they do not appear to be able to verbalise on the pitch. Biggar can be inspirational but as we saw in the 6N does have a habit of losing his rag. When you have a ref who takes a schoolmaster approach such as yesterday then as Cobus discovered, it is very easy to get on the wrong side of officialdom.

Bearing in mind that Chris Boyd appears likely to leave at the end of next season then who will take over the reins ? I only add this point because I understand that Chris does not have his family over here and I am sure is missing home - who wouldn't !

The daft thing is that this slump during the 6N was fairly predictable but apart from some losing bonus points very little has been achieved. Worcester next friday will be really difficult as due to the Saracens effect, Wuss will play with no fear.

Where on earth where we will be after Round 22 I have no idea....................

Can we just forget about referees too. We don’t lose because of referees. Over the course of a match, a month, a season, all teams get things about the same. I know we’re one eyed, all fans are but we don’t lose because of the officiating. We lose because we’re not good enough on that day. We’re in our “levelling out” period in my opinion. Our position at the top wasn’t likely to last and it hasn’t. The Premiership is closing up as it did last season. Exeter are clear leaders and I think Sale are next best. We’re in the next half a dozen or so. I think we’ll be top 6. After today’s round probably 4th or 5th so we are finding our level. We need to find our season again though. I remember in the previous regime at times “where might our next win be”? Just having those thoughts again to be honest. It’s not referees, it’s us!

I would disagree over the course of a match it evens itself out every week. Decisions made by the officials really influence the momentum of a game and even if these are not match deciding (Quins v Exeter yesterday) they still can indirectly influence the outcome. There are significant inconsistencies with decision making currently and being on the wrong end of a poor decision(s) can be critical irrespective of how the team are playing. Over a long period I would agree however, although those teams at the wrong end of the table tend to not get a lot going there way generally.

As a fan all we can ask for is consistency and think we are in a real poor period of officialdom and I don't think this is due to poor quality of officials. The laws are complex and even with the luxury of endless angles and replays there is still debate. The elite refs are probably better than ever but they are hamstrung by directives by the various ruling bodies of the game. Lets get back to reffing the laws and they are and not have a favour of month ones they are going to concentrate on or ignore. Let the set piece be clean, ref the breakdown and offside laws vigorously, this will create space and a better spectacle IMO

I agree with much of this especially the consistency element, but I still say that over the course of time it levels itself out generally. I also stick to my point that officials don’t lose us games, we lose games ourselves. This is a coaching team in its infancy, they’ve made a cracking start, however everyone needs to look at themselves right now. 6N or not our season is starting to disappear. We were the last Premiership team to lose at home and now we’ve lost half of our home games, or near half of them anyway. Second halves seem to be our thing at present. I remember we used to joke on here “at least we won the second half”. That’s changed. We can’t protect a lead now.

W11 good post - fully agree. Carley had a big impact on the outcome of 2 games in consecutive weekends by making opposite decisions in virtually identical situations (French knock on was worse in my view).

The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence. Where we were we after the Earl try? Why wasn't T in Carley face getting him to review it? I have no idea whether Earl was offside having only seen it live - but I guarantee that Saracens would have been all over the ref had it been the other way round. Not saying I like it - but others are benefitting from better 'referee management' than us.

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Statesman

The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence.

Carley actually saw the replay on the screen which is why it was reviewed, he specifically told Wiggy not to come over and appeal as it made it look like he was reviewing it because he had appealed.

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Statesman
W11 good post - fully agree. Carley had a big impact on the outcome of 2 games in consecutive weekends by making opposite decisions in virtually identical situations (French knock on was worse in my view).
The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence. Where we were we after the Earl try? Why wasn't T in Carley face getting him to review it? I have no idea whether Earl was offside having only seen it live - but I guarantee that Saracens would have been all over the ref had it been the other way round. Not saying I like it - but others are benefitting from better 'referee management' than us.

It was the TMO who brought it to Carley's attention. Once you saw the incident the only options were red or yellow swinging arm directly to the head. After discussion it was agreed yellow due to how low the player was, probably the right decision but could have been red. We were certainly not hard done by if anything we got off lightly.

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ajack

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Statesman
W11 good post - fully agree. Carley had a big impact on the outcome of 2 games in consecutive weekends by making opposite decisions in virtually identical situations (French knock on was worse in my view).
The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence. Where we were we after the Earl try? Why wasn't T in Carley face getting him to review it? I have no idea whether Earl was offside having only seen it live - but I guarantee that Saracens would have been all over the ref had it been the other way round. Not saying I like it - but others are benefitting from better 'referee management' than us.

It was the TMO who brought it to Carley's attention. Once you saw the incident the only options were red or yellow swinging arm directly to the head. After discussion it was agreed yellow due to how low the player was, probably the right decision but could have been red. We were certainly not hard done by if anything we got off lightly.

I didn't say we were - that wasn't my point. It happened right in front of me and as I said Wiggy spent about a minute 'coaching' the referee on the incident. I'm not saying I like it - but other teams do it much better than us.

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Statesman

The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence.

Carley actually saw the replay on the screen which is why it was reviewed, he specifically told Wiggy not to come over and appeal as it made it look like he was reviewing it because he had appealed.

Wiggy ignored the advice then - I couldn't have been much closer to the incident. As I said not disputing the outcome.

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Statesman

The Bean incident happened right in front of me and I do not know what influence the TMO had but Carley appeared to have no interest in the offence - he came over to see how Wiggy was. Wiggy then spent the best part of a minute moaning about the tackle and imploring Carley to review - after which he did. I have no issue with the yellow but I don't think it gets reviewed but for Wiggy's insistence.

Carley actually saw the replay on the screen which is why it was reviewed, he specifically told Wiggy not to come over and appeal as it made it look like he was reviewing it because he had appealed.

Wiggy ignored the advice then - I couldn't have been much closer to the incident. As I said not disputing the outcome.

Never said you were disputing the outcome. As I said Wiggy appealed, Carley called him over, said something to the effect of "I've seen it on the replay, don't come over appealing. Just think how it looks, you come over appealing and then I review it." Wiggy then walked off as Carley went to the TMO. I was watching online so had the benefit of hearing the ref.

Personally I think Bean was lucky to get away with a yellow as it looked like a clear swinging arm to the head, but appreciate I may not be impartial.

As a neutral I can confirm that Carley was equal in his officiating, saints pushed the laws at nearly every ruck, I'm saying that as someone that despises Sarries.
Don't blame the ref, the intercept and losing Biggar lost you that game.

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Hymenoptera
As a neutral I can confirm that Carley was equal in his officiating, saints pushed the laws at nearly every ruck, I'm saying that as someone that despises Sarries.

Well at least we learnt something from our drubbing at Ex then! ;-)

Although Cobus brings many good things to the game how many interception trys is that from his (misjudges/misguided) passes?

Pretty sure the statistics are skewed heavily in Cobus's favour insofar as interceptions given versus interceptions taken goes!

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Stilo
Although Cobus brings many good things to the game how many interception trys is that from his (misjudges/misguided) passes?

I think he would still we well in credit considering the amount he has scored

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Awaywin

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Stilo
Although Cobus brings many good things to the game how many interception trys is that from his (misjudges/misguided) passes?

I think he would still we well in credit considering the amount he has scored

It had not been evident to me in earlier games, but on Saturday, there was a clear pause between catching and presenting to Cobus.

We are so used to Courtney and Ribeye presenting from the top, yet Woody was catching, landing, then passing. It made for a quite ponderous clearawy, and one that perhaps may have contributed?

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Longers

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Awaywin

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Stilo
Although Cobus brings many good things to the game how many interception trys is that from his (misjudges/misguided) passes?

I think he would still we well in credit considering the amount he has scored

It had not been evident to me in earlier games, but on Saturday, there was a clear pause between catching and presenting to Cobus.

We are so used to Courtney and Ribeye presenting from the top, yet Woody was catching, landing, then passing. It made for a quite ponderous clearawy, and one that perhaps may have contributed?

The lineout in question was directly in front of where I sit. Woody took the catch then seemed to 'dummy pump' the ball off the top. By the time Cobus had the ball everything was telegraphed for the interception.