Match Thread - Saints v Sale - Teams Up

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Dragonboy
I’m guessing Nick is due a rest weekend as he must have racked up some mileage this season.

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Stockers

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Dragonboy
I’m guessing Nick is due a rest weekend as he must have racked up some mileage this season.

Nick has concussion. See "not available list" above.

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BuckSt
I for one am glad Grayse is back. I get Furbank is a talent and an options at 10 and needed a trial there- if needed he can slot in. Grayse has so much talent in that particular position with territory management game plan and hope he has been working on his weaknesses and impresses this weekend.
Overall on paper Sale are huge and will be physically dominant, it will be a tough day but let’s see what are young guys can do.

As a side note: starting 15 are all English qualified- 13 of which are from our academy. In the 23 I think 16 are from the academy. Only Api (and Hutch- Scotland) are “non-English” which is credit for what Boyd and the coaches were trying to acheive.

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StBuckby
I really hope he does provide territory management and game plan. That should be his key skill set but IMHO he hasn’t offered it thus far.

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LeicesterSaint
Interesting on the English qualified front, I wonder whether anyone can say when that was last shown in the Premiership? I have this hazy memory of one team (could have been Sale) fielding what was accused of being a weakened side just to get more EQP's on the pitch to meet some quota or payment from the RFU?

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Coltnet
0-0 but I can see us losing this badly...already! Far too many pens

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TheGent

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Coltnet
0-0 but I can see us losing this badly...already! Far too many pens

Long way to go yet.

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Deesaint
Grayson hits the corner flag with the attempted conversation

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StBuckby
Freeman is pure class. When he fills out he’s going to be some player.

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StBuckby
Freeman is pure class. When he fills out he’s going to be some player.

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Deesaint
Will we win another lineout ?

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StBuckby
Good half into the wind, keep pinning them back, I can’t see them scoring from their own half

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saint krige
Massive credit to Ferguson and Vass. Improvements are spectacular.

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ajack
I would imagine Sanderson is blowing a gasket at the minute. Good gameplan and for once we are sticking to it. I cannot see Sale making so many mistakes in the second half but as StBuckby said we have the wind and the slope. This will be a great win if w can finish the job given who we have out.

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StBuckby
Please rain a lot. Very hard to chase the game in that weather

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StBuckby
Another rubbish exit with Grays having to kick left footed
The half backs need to get a bleeding grip here

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saint krige

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StBuckby
Another rubbish exit with Grays having to kick left footed
The half backs need to get a bleeding grip here

Its the right decision, just great line speed from Sale.

Pass to Grayson is fast and on target.

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StBuckby
Massive JJ, he’s a very good lad

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saint krige
Tom James is the REAL DEAL. Had Faf's number all game.

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Stockers
Great win against a very good Sale team!
Some good defensive sets at the end although I am so disappointed that young Tom Wood didn't have the speed or confidence to run the try in from 80 metres.

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Gaipajama

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saint krige
Tom James is the REAL DEAL. Had Faf's number all game.

100%. He looks calmer than anyone around him, as well. He's definitely got the situational awareness, and a box kick to back it up, too.

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saint krige
15. Freeman
14. Big T
13. Dingwall
12. Francis
11. Sleighthome
10.Biggar
9. James

with
Proctor
Furbank
Hutch
Mitchell
Mallinder

Grayson

That's some backline and options.

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ajack

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saint krige
15. Freeman
14. Big T
13. Dingwall
12. Francis
11. Sleighthome
10.Biggar
9. James

with
Proctor
Furbank
Hutch
Mitchell
Mallinder

Grayson

That's some backline and options.

I would have Proctor starting over Big T .

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StBuckby
Mitchell and Furbank will start
Enjoy the England game

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TunbridgeSaint

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StBuckby
Massive JJ, he’s a very good lad

Is he? Given away 3 penalties and earnt 1. Looks very lightweight for a pro rugby player in the back row, very much a “C-grade” player

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twsaint
We've got a range of talented backs. We'll need them all. Jimmy Grayson has had his doubters recently. Those two long range penalties and the confidence to take them, won us the match.
Last night Umaga Jacob was a little boy lost for Wasps . He looked like he could cry when he came off. It's a hard game but every player needs understanding and support. I bet Jimmy Gopperth put his arm around Umaga after the game.

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StBuckby
I must watch a different game. I thought TJ had a good game, his passing is very good, he kicks good distance and runs good support lines. But he had 2 blocked kicks that got us into trouble. He failed to control play after 2 restarts which led to 2 tries and the onyl reason Sale got back into the game, either by not kicking the ball out or by passing to James under pressure (yes Sale had good line speed but no prem team should be unable to exit their 22) and gave a bad hospital pass to Api on the halfway in the last 5 minutes which led to a knock one and again nearly cost us. He is playing very well but I think the hyperbolic praise is mainly by the Mitchell bashers looking to prove a point.
In life things are never as bad or as good as you think. TJ is probably better than I expected but not as good as some think. Important to note that our pack has been much better in the last 3-4 games, I am keen to see how Alex goes with that platform and in reasonable conditions - typically players are drafted into the England squad for a reason.

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StBuckby
I must watch a different game. I thought TJ had a good game, his passing is very good, he kicks good distance and runs good support lines. But he had 2 blocked kicks that got us into trouble. He failed to control play after 2 restarts which led to 2 tries and the onyl reason Sale got back into the game, either by not kicking the ball out or by passing to James under pressure (yes Sale had good line speed but no prem team should be unable to exit their 22) and gave a bad hospital pass to Api on the halfway in the last 5 minutes which led to a knock one and again nearly cost us. He is playing very well but I think the hyperbolic praise is mainly by the Mitchell bashers looking to prove a point.
In life things are never as bad or as good as you think. TJ is probably better than I expected but not as good as some think. Important to note that our pack has been much better in the last 3-4 games, I am keen to see how Alex goes with that platform and in reasonable conditions - typically players are drafted into the England squad for a reason.

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Stockers
Great win against a very good Sale team!
Some good defensive sets at the end although I am so disappointed that young Tom Wood didn't have the speed or confidence to run the try in from 80 metres.

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Saintsman94

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TunbridgeSaint

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StBuckby
Massive JJ, he’s a very good lad

Is he? Given away 3 penalties and earnt 1. Looks very lightweight for a pro rugby player in the back row, very much a “C-grade” player

I think that's incredibly harsh. JJ looks good in my opinion, about 20 years old, already experienced a fair bit of first team rugby and has played in NZ. Is a good hard tackler, lineout option and as proved today a turnover threat. I think he'll be a great player for us in time, just makes a few mistakes but he's young, it'll come.

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Longers
Tom James
Tommy Freeman
Alex Coles
Alex Moon
Little T
Frazer Dingwall

All excellent today.

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StBuckby

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Stockers
Great win against a very good Sale team!
Some good defensive sets at the end although I am so disappointed that young Tom Wood didn't have the speed or confidence to run the try in from 80 metres.

haha, it’s remarkable he had the engine to go that far after that shift !

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Sans Culottes

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Longers
Tom James
Tommy Freeman
Alex Coles
Alex Moon
Little T
Frazer Dingwall

All excellent today.

And Jimmy Grayson who won us the match with his long range kicks.

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herbie85

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Saintsman94

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TunbridgeSaint

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StBuckby
Massive JJ, he’s a very good lad

Is he? Given away 3 penalties and earnt 1. Looks very lightweight for a pro rugby player in the back row, very much a “C-grade” player

I think that's incredibly harsh. JJ looks good in my opinion, about 20 years old, already experienced a fair bit of first team rugby and has played in NZ. Is a good hard tackler, lineout option and as proved today a turnover threat. I think he'll be a great player for us in time, just makes a few mistakes but he's young, it'll come.

Agree with this, best game I've seen him have. At 20, time to put on a bit of size and he's still developing his game. To say he's c Grade at 20 is harsh. Wasn't he England under 20s a year or so again?

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saint krige
Boyd praises Grays, Harrison and James
"Tom James kicked exceptionally well in the first half"

[www.northamptonchron.co.uk]

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Saint Gordo
Now that I watched, I am really not sure what to make of the Sale game, except happy with the result. But another poor match where Saints spent most of the time defending, mostly in their 22 and closer in. No real attacking consistency or fluency except for a few rare flourishes. Getting wins like this is tough to watch and is not really sustainable. The attack across the board needs to improve quickly.
On the plus side both Freeman and Sleightholme look great for young players with obviously strong futures ahead of them. At 9 I thought James had his plus and minus moments with the ball, but did do well keeping de Klerk from doing too much damage. The rest of the backs are hard to judge due to lack of any consistent attack. But not sure Grayson was the problem there.
Saints forwards did look pretty good at the breakdown, but, had trouble creating turnovers until far inside our 22. Those last few minutes Sale were eating us up until that intercept by Wood (big Wood fan, btw). In other words, a win is a win, but we need to really get the attack moving.

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Deesaint

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StBuckby
I must watch a different game. I thought TJ had a good game, his passing is very good, he kicks good distance and runs good support lines. But he had 2 blocked kicks that got us into trouble. He failed to control play after 2 restarts which led to 2 tries and the onyl reason Sale got back into the game, either by not kicking the ball out or by passing to James under pressure (yes Sale had good line speed but no prem team should be unable to exit their 22) and gave a bad hospital pass to Api on the halfway in the last 5 minutes which led to a knock one and again nearly cost us. He is playing very well but I think the hyperbolic praise is mainly by the Mitchell bashers looking to prove a point.
In life things are never as bad or as good as you think. TJ is probably better than I expected but not as good as some think. Important to note that our pack has been much better in the last 3-4 games, I am keen to see how Alex goes with that platform and in reasonable conditions - typically players are drafted into the England squad for a reason.

Team played well
I’m happy to support the guys that took the field
Even applaud them for their efforts

Don’t know why you have to be so negative against some players

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Saint Gordo
Now that I watched, I am really not sure what to make of the Sale game, except happy with the result. But another poor match where Saints spent most of the time defending, mostly in their 22 and closer in. No real attacking consistency or fluency except for a few rare flourishes. Getting wins like this is tough to watch and is not really sustainable. The attack across the board needs to improve quickly.
On the plus side both Freeman and Sleightholme look great for young players with obviously strong futures ahead of them. At 9 I thought James had his plus and minus moments with the ball, but did do well keeping de Klerk from doing too much damage. The rest of the backs are hard to judge due to lack of any consistent attack. But not sure Grayson was the problem there.
Saints forwards did look pretty good at the breakdown, but, had trouble creating turnovers until far inside our 22. Those last few minutes Sale were eating us up until that intercept by Wood (big Wood fan, btw). In other words, a win is a win, but we need to really get the attack moving.

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Saint Maul

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Saint Gordo
Now that I watched, I am really not sure what to make of the Sale game, except happy with the result. But another poor match where Saints spent most of the time defending, mostly in their 22 and closer in. No real attacking consistency or fluency except for a few rare flourishes. Getting wins like this is tough to watch and is not really sustainable. The attack across the board needs to improve quickly.
On the plus side both Freeman and Sleightholme look great for young players with obviously strong futures ahead of them. At 9 I thought James had his plus and minus moments with the ball, but did do well keeping de Klerk from doing too much damage. The rest of the backs are hard to judge due to lack of any consistent attack. But not sure Grayson was the problem there.
Saints forwards did look pretty good at the breakdown, but, had trouble creating turnovers until far inside our 22. Those last few minutes Sale were eating us up until that intercept by Wood (big Wood fan, btw). In other words, a win is a win, but we need to really get the attack moving.

I'm savouring a backs to the walls, against the odds victory. Compare our defence, scrum and commitment v Sale to how we were playing end of last season and we have the most important foundations. Attack is hard when you're spending a lot of the time desperately defending. Attack is the area Boyd excels at. It will be a lot easier when players return from internationals.

How many Saints players were missing compared to Sale?

Hobbs-Awoyemi, Matavesi, Franks, Lawes, Ribbans, Adendorff, Mitchell, Biggar, Big T, Proctor, Hutchinson.

Bar Tuilagi, Curry and Yarde, Sale had more of their first team and big guns like de Klerk and de Looger.

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Saint Maul

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Saint Gordo
Now that I watched, I am really not sure what to make of the Sale game, except happy with the result. But another poor match where Saints spent most of the time defending, mostly in their 22 and closer in. No real attacking consistency or fluency except for a few rare flourishes. Getting wins like this is tough to watch and is not really sustainable. The attack across the board needs to improve quickly.
On the plus side both Freeman and Sleightholme look great for young players with obviously strong futures ahead of them. At 9 I thought James had his plus and minus moments with the ball, but did do well keeping de Klerk from doing too much damage. The rest of the backs are hard to judge due to lack of any consistent attack. But not sure Grayson was the problem there.
Saints forwards did look pretty good at the breakdown, but, had trouble creating turnovers until far inside our 22. Those last few minutes Sale were eating us up until that intercept by Wood (big Wood fan, btw). In other words, a win is a win, but we need to really get the attack moving.

I'm savouring a backs to the walls, against the odds victory. Compare our defence, scrum and commitment v Sale to how we were playing end of last season and we have the most important foundations. Attack is hard when you're spending a lot of the time desperately defending. Attack is the area Boyd excels at. It will be a lot easier when players return from internationals.

How many Saints players were missing compared to Sale?

Hobbs-Awoyemi, Matavesi, Franks, Lawes, Ribbans, Adendorff, Mitchell, Biggar, Big T, Proctor, Hutchinson.

Bar Tuilagi, Curry and Yarde, Sale had more of their first team and big guns like de Klerk and de Looger.

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Saint Maul
I forgot about Isiekwe. So that's between 8-10 best matchday 23 missing.
So over a third of your best players missing is likely to impact attacking potency.

We lost a lot of lineouts which took away attacking opportunities. Matavesi, Lawes, Ribbans and Isiekwe would have made a difference.

A British Lion at 10 and England squad 9 would have made a difference in attack. We had some counter-attacking opportunities we didn't exploit. James has to stay on to near the end and was tiring.

Adendorff would have made a difference instead of Tonks would conceded 2 penalties.

Proctor has been one of our best players, it's just whether he's on the wing or centre.

Personally I'd have Big T over Freeman on the wing.

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saint krige

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Saint Maul
I forgot about Isiekwe. So that's between 8-10 best matchday 23 missing.
So over a third of your best players missing is likely to impact attacking potency.

We lost a lot of lineouts which took away attacking opportunities. Matavesi, Lawes, Ribbans and Isiekwe would have made a difference.

A British Lion at 10 and England squad 9 would have made a difference in attack. We had some counter-attacking opportunities we didn't exploit. James has to stay on to near the end and was tiring.

Adendorff would have made a difference instead of Tonks would conceded 2 penalties.

Proctor has been one of our best players, it's just whether he's on the wing or centre.

Personally I'd have Big T over Freeman on the wing.

Understand your point, but it doesn't really work like that from what I've seen. Against Bath we only had Lawes & Biggar out? And if you want to include match day players, Bath had around 12/13 players out in total, yet we still lost.

Yesterday we were missing a few key players, yet won. So when we are missing several players we win and when we're full strength against weakened opposition we lose (Bath, Bristol).

Nothing indicates that having the best paper on team available equates to us winning, although it is logical to assume that is the way.

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Saint Maul

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saint krige

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Saint Maul
I forgot about Isiekwe. So that's between 8-10 best matchday 23 missing.
So over a third of your best players missing is likely to impact attacking potency.

We lost a lot of lineouts which took away attacking opportunities. Matavesi, Lawes, Ribbans and Isiekwe would have made a difference.

A British Lion at 10 and England squad 9 would have made a difference in attack. We had some counter-attacking opportunities we didn't exploit. James has to stay on to near the end and was tiring.

Adendorff would have made a difference instead of Tonks would conceded 2 penalties.

Proctor has been one of our best players, it's just whether he's on the wing or centre.

Personally I'd have Big T over Freeman on the wing.

Understand your point, but it doesn't really work like that from what I've seen. Against Bath we only had Lawes & Biggar out? And if you want to include match day players, Bath had around 12/13 players out in total, yet we still lost.

Yesterday we were missing a few key players, yet won. So when we are missing several players we win and when we're full strength against weakened opposition we lose (Bath, Bristol).

Nothing indicates that having the best paper on team available equates to us winning, although it is logical to assume that is the way.

I was responding to your point, "The attack across the board needs to improve quickly."

The point I've been making relates to the impact of players out on attacking potency rather than winning.

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Saint Maul
Oops. I mixed u up

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Saint Gordo

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Saint Maul
Oops. I mixed u up

How could you mix us up? I'm sure we look quite different.
I know we had a lot of players out, but our attack has not been great, except in spurts. And the back line had enough good quality talent to play better than it did. We did need more ball from the breakdowns, but still I don't think we can say our attack is even in the top 6 clubs and probably lower. According to the Premiership Table on the BBC, Saints have scored 222 points so far this season (and yes, I know this is not the only measure of attacking competency, but is indicative). The only teams which have scored fewer points are Worcester at 172 and Newcastle at 191. Not sure how the Covid matches factor into this, but still indicative.

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Saint Gordo
Saints have scored 222 points so far this season (and yes, I know this is not the only measure of attacking competency, but is indicative). The only teams which have scored fewer points are Worcester at 172 and Newcastle at 191. Not sure how the Covid matches factor into this, but still indicative.

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Saint Ted
We're also in 5th when it comes to tries conceded per match with 2.7, Exeter are top with 1.46, Bath are sitting bottom on 3.92
However on points conceded per game we're down in 8th, on 23.8, which would be a big indicator of what we already know, our penalty count is way too high.

Worcester (24.27). Gloucester (24.46), Wasps (26.38)and Bath (29.58) concede more. Exeter lead the table with 15.08

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Statesman
We need to work on discipline. A penalty inside 30 seconds 2 weeks running is just a killer. Also, 2 weeks running we have given away a kick chase offside penalty were the player has been specifically told by the referee to stop - cost us 10 points.

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Saint Ted
Over the last 4 games (as that is when ESPN started putting full match stats up again) Sale have averaged 12.5 penalties per game, saints 11.5.
A cursory glance, as I really need to get some work done, would suggest to me that saints penalty count may not be as high as we think but we are giving them away in more dangerous areas, problem is as I only have 4 matches out of 10 to base this on, it's entirely conceivable that we are conceding less as the season goes on, which would also go hand in hand with the improvements in the scrum.

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saint krige

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Saint Maul
I forgot about Isiekwe. So that's between 8-10 best matchday 23 missing.
So over a third of your best players missing is likely to impact attacking potency.

We lost a lot of lineouts which took away attacking opportunities. Matavesi, Lawes, Ribbans and Isiekwe would have made a difference.

A British Lion at 10 and England squad 9 would have made a difference in attack. We had some counter-attacking opportunities we didn't exploit. James has to stay on to near the end and was tiring.

Adendorff would have made a difference instead of Tonks would conceded 2 penalties.

Proctor has been one of our best players, it's just whether he's on the wing or centre.

Personally I'd have Big T over Freeman on the wing.

Understand your point, but it doesn't really work like that from what I've seen. Against Bath we only had Lawes & Biggar out? And if you want to include match day players, Bath had around 12/13 players out in total, yet we still lost.

Yesterday we were missing a few key players, yet won. So when we are missing several players we win and when we're full strength against weakened opposition we lose (Bath, Bristol).

Nothing indicates that having the best paper on team available equates to us winning, although it is logical to assume that is the way.