Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
March 19 2021
This is the Saints v Bristol match thread
Who:
Northampton Saints v Bristol Bears
When:
Sunday 21st March 2021 15:00
Where:
Franklins Gardens
How do I watch:
BT Sports 1
Officials:
Referee: Tom Foley
Assistant Referees: Paul Dix and Peter Allan
TMO: Claire Hodnett
Citing Officer: John Byett
Teams
Not available due to injury:
Shaun Adendorff (knee), Owen Franks (foot), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), Lewis Ludlam (concussion), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
International duty:
Dan Biggar (Wales), Alex Mitchell (England), and David Ribbans (England).
Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Marching On (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:09
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:22:12:45:43 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:22:12:45:43 by Saint Ted.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:19
Unavailable: Harry Thacker, Kyle Sinckler, Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, Dave Attwood, Ben Earl, James Dun, Harry Randall, Chris Cook, Max Malins, Ioan Lloyd, Callum Sheedy, Semi Radradra, Siale Piutau, Charles Piutau.
Maybe not a bad time to play them..............
Maybe not a bad time to play them..............
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:21
What's happened to Big T? No mention in injuries. I think he's only started once in the last couple of months from memory. Is he out of favour?
Bristol missing some quality with no Sinckler, Attwood, Randall, Sheedy, Radrandra, Piutau so they are as disadvantaged as we are.
Waller and Hill at props will be an interesting test. Great to see Matavasi and Isiekwe back. Piers not starting is a loss.
Bristol missing some quality with no Sinckler, Attwood, Randall, Sheedy, Radrandra, Piutau so they are as disadvantaged as we are.
Waller and Hill at props will be an interesting test. Great to see Matavasi and Isiekwe back. Piers not starting is a loss.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: batty (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:25
Not sure about that centre partnership
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:26
Quote:Aberavon Wizard
Unavailable: Harry Thacker, Kyle Sinckler, Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro, Dave Attwood, Ben Earl, James Dun, Harry Randall, Chris Cook, Max Malins, Ioan Lloyd, Callum Sheedy, Semi Radradra, Siale Piutau, Charles Piutau.
Maybe not a bad time to play them..............
Agree with that.. us missing Lawes , Biggar, Ribbans, Mitchell, Ludlam & Adendorff is looking a lot lighter ‘missing’ list than theirs fortunately. Hopefully a good game with 2 attacking teams looking to play some rugby on an excellent pitch
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:28
It’s good enough to win if we have a good day
I’m worried that Leiua, Luatua and Hughes will make easy yards into the Grays and Hutch channel since we also have 2 big flankers with slow acceleration compared to Lewis, they will struggle to get over to help. Maybe Tei can do that.
I’m worried that Leiua, Luatua and Hughes will make easy yards into the Grays and Hutch channel since we also have 2 big flankers with slow acceleration compared to Lewis, they will struggle to get over to help. Maybe Tei can do that.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:29
We are certainly in a better position than them on who is missing. Even with so many missing in their backs I can still see them targeting certain areas in our defence, maybe why big T is not included?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:29
Fairly equal looking teams on paper, back-row battle looks key and whether we can stop some of their big ball carriers getting over the gain line, such as Hughes, Luatua and Leiua. It's fair to say both teams are equally hard hit due to injuries and internationals, I make it Saints are missing 8 from a first choice 23 and Bristol are missing 9. We could and should have beaten them away from home earlier in the season, so no reason we can't take the game to them and push Bristol very close, if not get the W. COYS!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:41
Quote:ajack
We are certainly in a better position than them on who is missing. Even with so many missing in their backs I can still see them targeting certain areas in our defence, maybe why big T is not included?
Big T is probably seen as a weapon in a high flying confident side rather than one steadily making progress and building on foundations. It’s very hard to justify a bench spot to someone who plays one position in the backs.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:47
Interesting that Coles has jumped ahead of Moon
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: shiversaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:50
That 10-12-13 defensive line of ours looks ripe for a Nathan Hughes sized hole....
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:52
I agree with regard to Taquele - either he starts or he has the day off. Even with. 5-3 spilt on the bench, we need players who can multi-task. No Nairayavaro, no Collins, no Sleightholme is an interesting call with regard to the eleven and fourteeen shirts !
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 12:57
I wonder if Big T is being saved for games where he'd be more of a threat? Also, there's going to be a need to ensure players are being rested to comply with playing time limits and keeping the squad happy.
If we're going to get a win against Bristol, this is surely the time but even with their big players missing, it's not going to be easy.
Buckby, I understand your concern about Luatua, Leiua and Hughes, but at least it's not Luatua, Leiua, Hughes, Earl, C Pitatau and Randradra that will be running at them.
Let's not forget that Nick I and Tei charging at a relatively inexperienced Tiff Eden isn't going to be a walk in the park for him.
Shout out to Tommy Freeman for playing himself into a run of games.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:19:13:04:32 by Saint Stokey.
If we're going to get a win against Bristol, this is surely the time but even with their big players missing, it's not going to be easy.
Buckby, I understand your concern about Luatua, Leiua and Hughes, but at least it's not Luatua, Leiua, Hughes, Earl, C Pitatau and Randradra that will be running at them.
Let's not forget that Nick I and Tei charging at a relatively inexperienced Tiff Eden isn't going to be a walk in the park for him.
Shout out to Tommy Freeman for playing himself into a run of games.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:19:13:04:32 by Saint Stokey.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 13:07
Quote:StBuckby
Interesting that Coles has jumped ahead of Moon
Or just giving Alex a weekend off? Sort of, anyway! I don't think there's much between them except for experience?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:19:13:16:48 by Longers.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Santiago (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 13:28
So we have three second rows in the 23, I'd see it more as a case of balance not having both lumps on together.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 13:37
I'd think Coles is more mobile, Moon is bigger so maybe horses for courses?
I still think Hutch is best at 13 rather than 12 but what do I know? It certainly isn't the most fearsome defensive backline but they can all do some great stuff with some decent ball so lets hope we can get an edge up front.
I still think Hutch is best at 13 rather than 12 but what do I know? It certainly isn't the most fearsome defensive backline but they can all do some great stuff with some decent ball so lets hope we can get an edge up front.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 14:04
Looks a decent match up tbh, helped by them missing a few gems.
Hoping Grayson can control the game from 10. Bit disappointed to see Sleighthome not included.
Hoping Grayson can control the game from 10. Bit disappointed to see Sleighthome not included.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 14:18
The way Bristol play Big t could be exposed . I reckon he starts the following week against Worcester.
Re:Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Rugbyman01 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 14:45
No idea why Mallinder is continually put on bench. Clearly needs game time on loan after a couple of years out injured to speed up return.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Ady32 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 14:52
Quote:Saint Maul
What's happened to Big T? No mention in injuries. I think he's only started once in the last couple of months from memory. Is he out of favour? .
The back 3 ( plus Harry) look like the best combination for taking and return kicks and defence. Really great to see Tommy keep his place - well deserved!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 14:55
Quote:Aberavon Wizard
I agree with regard to Taquele - either he starts or he has the day off. Even with. 5-3 spilt on the bench, we need players who can multi-task. No Nairayavaro, no Collins, no Sleightholme is an interesting call with regard to the eleven and fourteeen shirts !
I don't necessarily see this the same way. I feel he could provide real impetuous off the bench and potentially be a game change against tired legs if we were in a close one. I think when you look at the fact that we are play a centre on one wing and a 15 on the other, with Furbank and Hutchinson I think Taquele and Piers give adequate cover.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 15:21
Another way to look at it being that Mallinder has had a few nasty injuries and would maybe benefit from building some minutes from the bench rather than being chucked back into full games (acknowledging that you could be called from the bench on minute one in theory).
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 15:35
Quote:LeicesterSaint
Another way to look at it being that Mallinder has had a few nasty injuries and would maybe benefit from building some minutes from the bench rather than being chucked back into full games (acknowledging that you could be called from the bench on minute one in theory).
100%
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 16:08
Quote:Ady32Quote:Saint Maul
What's happened to Big T? No mention in injuries. I think he's only started once in the last couple of months from memory. Is he out of favour? .
The back 3 ( plus Harry) look like the best combination for taking and return kicks and defence. Really great to see Tommy keep his place - well deserved!
It's interesting we are preferring to start 2 players on the wing when their optimal positions are elsewhere. Proctor's our best outside centre and Freeman looks better at fullback. They both do a good job on the wing mind.
Personally I'd choose Sleightholme above Freeman. Big T is allegedly on £400k a year so him rarely being picked raises some interesting questions.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 16:31
Sleightholm has been in great form but we need to make sure we do not over play him. He is a very aggressive player so will put in more work than a lot of other wingers. The odd weekend off is good to keep players fresh. It almost feels like Boyd is giving players blocks of games to prove themselves so we know everyone is up to speed and can pick on form.
Freeman is also in form and Furbank is our best 15 right now. Proctor is an excellent centre but good on the wing too and he provides an extra solid defender... in reality from 10 to 15 that team can all interchange depending on the situation. All very rounded players.
Freeman is also in form and Furbank is our best 15 right now. Proctor is an excellent centre but good on the wing too and he provides an extra solid defender... in reality from 10 to 15 that team can all interchange depending on the situation. All very rounded players.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 16:47
It’s a side with minimal errors
assuming an open game that should allow Hutch some space
I’d like to see some better support play, both following a small gain line break (to avoid a ruck turnover steal) and a clean break to allow offloads
assuming an open game that should allow Hutch some space
I’d like to see some better support play, both following a small gain line break (to avoid a ruck turnover steal) and a clean break to allow offloads
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Gaipajama (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 17:59
Quote:shiversaint
That 10-12-13 defensive line of ours looks ripe for a Nathan Hughes sized hole....
Indeed. As you say, I'm sure it won't have escaped Pat's attention! It'll be interesting to see in the first few minutes the extent to which Saints are looking to bulk up that 10-12 channel by, say, putting a forward in at 9. There was a very nice observation about how England built this approach into the defence to protect Ford on Squidge Rugby's latest video (part 2, here: [www.youtube.com] ) - not because Ford is a truly terrible defensive weakness, but because he tends to lose metres even when making the tackle. I reckon that we'll see a different shape with Proctor shifting in. I have a suspicion that Hutch would benefit from some cover for a bit, partly because it'll help him focus on what he's doing well, rather than worrying about his potential rough form in defence - rather like giving a spinner an extra man on the leg side to stop him worrying about the odd bad ball getting tonked.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 19:53
I appreciate Grayson and Hutch may not the most defensive partnership but Dingwall is pretty solid.
Has Hutch played at 12 since our scrum has become more dominant? It will be interesting to see what happens following a scrum if the Bristol back row aren't able to peel off the scrum because they're under pressure. Fingers crossed Hutch will get more space to exploit for the likes of Freeman, Furbank and Proctor.
Has Hutch played at 12 since our scrum has become more dominant? It will be interesting to see what happens following a scrum if the Bristol back row aren't able to peel off the scrum because they're under pressure. Fingers crossed Hutch will get more space to exploit for the likes of Freeman, Furbank and Proctor.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 20:07
Not the quickest back row
Thomas is a real pain at breakdown
But we are playing with more confidence and belief
It’ll be a tight one
Hopefully the skill and speed of our backs
Will just give us the edge
Or we will loose by 20 points 🤣🤣
Thomas is a real pain at breakdown
But we are playing with more confidence and belief
It’ll be a tight one
Hopefully the skill and speed of our backs
Will just give us the edge
Or we will loose by 20 points 🤣🤣
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 20:22
Expect Bristol to target 10,12 & 15. Be a real test of our defence if they get on top that can rack up a big score real quick. Fortunately they have a lot of players out. This will be another real test for us, I don't see us winning this with low possession and territory percentage.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 22:01
Do you see furbank as defensively weak? I’m not convinced about his work under the high ball but he’s very physical on the tackle...
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 22:07
Quote:StBuckby
Do you see furbank as defensively weak? I’m not convinced about his work under the high ball but he’s very physical on the tackle...
He did go through a terrible spell under the high ball but I don't expect Bristol to test him much on that. I do think he isn't the best on one in one tackles expect Bristol to target the 10,12 channel as well as the channels of them I see Furbank having to face a good few one on ones.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 19/03/2021 22:15
That’s interesting I think he’s a class act in defence and very strong
Naulago not easy to pin down though
I would be looking for Grayson to kick to the left A LOT. Purdy is a left footed physical winger playing 15, and he isn’t even that good with his left foot... plus he turns slowly. Keep pinning him into that corner with pressure and I think we will make massive yards. Adeolokun also not a great kicker.
Naulago not easy to pin down though
I would be looking for Grayson to kick to the left A LOT. Purdy is a left footed physical winger playing 15, and he isn’t even that good with his left foot... plus he turns slowly. Keep pinning him into that corner with pressure and I think we will make massive yards. Adeolokun also not a great kicker.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Tarnelo (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 05:54
Regarding Hutchinson and Dingwall, I think it is highly likely that they will change inside / outside positions depending on whether we are attacking or defending.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 07:47
Regard Furbank and his defence
One thing I did like about him at 10, was the sheer physicality he brought there, boy does he put himself about! I thought Biggar was a physical 10, but George was a level up.
I know at the start of the season I questioned his defense, but how wrong I was, maybe it was cause we being battered n we pulled out of shape defensively, but having watched him at 10, where you can’t hide in that channel, he more than stood up and side.... all day long!
Also as we have improved so has Rorys defence... hope that’s not the kiss of death
One thing I did like about him at 10, was the sheer physicality he brought there, boy does he put himself about! I thought Biggar was a physical 10, but George was a level up.
I know at the start of the season I questioned his defense, but how wrong I was, maybe it was cause we being battered n we pulled out of shape defensively, but having watched him at 10, where you can’t hide in that channel, he more than stood up and side.... all day long!
Also as we have improved so has Rorys defence... hope that’s not the kiss of death
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 09:25
Quote:Neil-H
Regard Furbank and his defence
One thing I did like about him at 10, was the sheer physicality he brought there, boy does he put himself about! I thought Biggar was a physical 10, but George was a level up.
I know at the start of the season I questioned his defense, but how wrong I was, maybe it was cause we being battered n we pulled out of shape defensively, but having watched him at 10, where you can’t hide in that channel, he more than stood up and side.... all day long!
Also as we have improved so has Rorys defence... hope that’s not the kiss of death
Defending at 10 is very different to defending at 15 at 10 you are generally defending very tight areas but also more likely to have very large gentlemen running at you at 15 you are often the last line of defence and tend to have very quick gentlemen running at you with space. So much of defence is working with those around you and the patterns and someone bolting the line or taking the wrong man can make others look foolish when they have done nothing wrong.
Our defence has unquestionably got better both mentally and physically but I do think Bristol ask questions that no other team in the premiership currently does, if we have the answers we can beat them they have a lot of their key backs missing however their style of play is in their DNA under Lam and I think we will still come up short.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Sans Culottes (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 12:05
Quote:StBuckby
Interesting that Coles has jumped ahead of Moon
Is that because he can run the lineout? I think he was making the calls last week.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 12:49
In fairness to Rory he put Dave Ewers on his ar&el!
You've got to be OK at tackling to be able to do that.
You've got to be OK at tackling to be able to do that.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 13:24
Quote:Saint Stokey
In fairness to Rory he put Dave Ewers on his ar&el!
You've got to be OK at tackling to be able to do that.
I doubt anyone who seriously posts on here doubts any premiership player cannot tackle or put in big hits, you simply wouldn't get close to a premiership contract if that was true.
However clearly there are some players who are better at certain aspects of the game than others.
Not every winger is the quickest, has the best step, is the best in the air, is the best defensively it is all about balance and working within the gameplan. That will hopefully always lead to debate.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 20/03/2021 18:32
We have to accept that we can't afford multiple world class players in every position. We're not Sarries!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: chappers_saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 10:52
Not expecting any return from this fixture but hoping for an enjoyable game with Saints giving a good account of themselves. Bristol seem a step above this season so let's see
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 14:48
Interesting to hear Austin Healey saying he believes James has surpassed Mitchell at scrum half, it really does show that there are some gems in the championship to be had.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:05
Lively start
James is one hell of a find
James is one hell of a find
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:07
Worrying when you agree with Healey haha.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:07
When we talk about progressing it’s turning down and opportunity for 3 and then giving the ball away from an attacking line out in the opposition 22 that really irks me. Deja vu
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:10
Quote:Awaywin
When we talk about progressing it’s turning down and opportunity for 3 and then giving the ball away from an attacking line out in the opposition 22 that really irks me. Deja vu
In principle the decision is sound.. however our recent record of securing offensive 5M lineouts is shocking
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:10
Have to agree that we should have taken the points
What a turnover by T
What a turnover by T
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:16
Get out the way Foley!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:19
Hutch must have been reading the "Hutch cant defend comments"
This is frenetic!
This is frenetic!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:21
A real positive start, just need some points to match
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:28
Shame our inside defence looked very lazy there for their score. Could see the move a mile off, despite good execution.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:28
Really frustrating as I feel we've been the better team but we've got to up our accuracy.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:32
Quote:Walks11Quote:Awaywin
When we talk about progressing it’s turning down and opportunity for 3 and then giving the ball away from an attacking line out in the opposition 22 that really irks me. Deja vu
In principle the decision is sound.. however our recent record of securing offensive 5M lineouts is shocking
Very true. Poor execution doesn't mean it's a poor decision.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:34
Red-zone execution definitely our downfall so far. Bristol have got 2 tries from 3 visits now, we've knocked on and given away a penalty the two times we've come close.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:35
Disappointing to be 2 tries down. With nothing to show.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:36
Tough day at the office when tries which are knocked on are given, why have a TMO if you aren’t going to review it? Clearly knocked on in the act of scoring. And as for the decision to give a penalty against wood, there is no such law as ‘’playing the 9’ and we are entitled to counter ruck, appalling officiating in the last 10mins or so
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:36
Last 10 has been truly awful. This was a bit of an opportunity with bristol missing a few.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:37
This lack of execution shows we are not a top 4 team at the min
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:39
Not sure I'd agree with Ferguson that Waller is playing the best rugby of his career so far.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:41
If there is anything we can do to keep Nick I from going back to Sarries it needs to be done, he is key for us
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:47
Nice way to end the half with a score. Have to say we deserve some points for that half.
Hope the second half is as entertaining!
Hope the second half is as entertaining!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Colonel1960 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:48
Quote:TunbridgeSaint
Tough day at the office when tries which are knocked on are given, why have a TMO if you aren’t going to review it? Clearly knocked on in the act of scoring. And as for the decision to give a penalty against wood, there is no such law as ‘’playing the 9’ and we are entitled to counter ruck, appalling officiating in the last 10mins or so
How did you see that from your armchair? TMO confirmed it was ok
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:48
Quote:herbie85Quote:Walks11Quote:Awaywin
When we talk about progressing it’s turning down and opportunity for 3 and then giving the ball away from an attacking line out in the opposition 22 that really irks me. Deja vu
In principle the decision is sound.. however our recent record of securing offensive 5M lineouts is shocking
Very true. Poor execution doesn't mean it's a poor decision.
Well either way we haven’t improved on the execution or the decision isn’t right based on our ability to execute so we haven’t improved our decision making.
Anyway we are in the game now after getting some rewards for that late pressure.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:15:49:36 by Awaywin.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:49
Quote:herbie85
Last 10 has been truly awful. This was a bit of an opportunity with bristol missing a few.
We are missing nearly the same amount of first choice 23 players as Bristol, we are missing 8 and they are missing 8/10.
The teams are very even on paper and I would not be surprised if Bristols combined starting 15 wages were higher than ours, players like Afoa, Luatua and Hughes don’t come cheap!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saintsman94 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:49
Good try and a good time to score. I think we've been the better team for much of this. Our back row has been fantastic, Tom Wood is rolling back the years lately.
Were it not for a couple of individual errors and a shaky few lineouts we would be winning this. Keep it up Saints, get the next score and we can win this.
Were it not for a couple of individual errors and a shaky few lineouts we would be winning this. Keep it up Saints, get the next score and we can win this.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:52
Crucial score. Love our ambition, just not quite clinical enough in the red zone and Bristol are.
Nick I is such a key player for us, we look small/light without him.
Nick I is such a key player for us, we look small/light without him.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:53
Not sure we deserve to be 2 tries down, but a game. A real advert for exciting attacking rugby.
Fingers crossed this our bad half.
Fingers crossed this our bad half.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:53
Quote:Colonel1960Quote:TunbridgeSaint
Tough day at the office when tries which are knocked on are given, why have a TMO if you aren’t going to review it? Clearly knocked on in the act of scoring. And as for the decision to give a penalty against wood, there is no such law as ‘’playing the 9’ and we are entitled to counter ruck, appalling officiating in the last 10mins or so
How did you see that from your armchair? TMO confirmed it was ok
Doesn’t mean it’s the correct decision. Josh Adams try was awarded last night but was clearly held up.
If we have the technology it should be used, when the ball is picked up, control was lost. Worth a second look.
Maybe you were asleep if your armchair zzzz
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:54
Why is it we always seem to cough up the really important line-outs ?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:55
2 overthrown lineouts have cost us. One was deep in their 22 and the other led to the Purdy try. Don’t try to be clever, just keep lineouts relatively simple.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:55
James and Hutch are having cracking games today! Please don't switch 9s unless we have to
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Colonel1960 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:56
Quote:TunbridgeSaintQuote:Colonel1960Quote:TunbridgeSaint
Tough day at the office when tries which are knocked on are given, why have a TMO if you aren’t going to review it? Clearly knocked on in the act of scoring. And as for the decision to give a penalty against wood, there is no such law as ‘’playing the 9’ and we are entitled to counter ruck, appalling officiating in the last 10mins or so
How did you see that from your armchair? TMO confirmed it was ok
Doesn’t mean it’s the correct decision. Josh Adams try was awarded last night but was clearly held up.
If we have the technology it should be used, when the ball is picked up, control was lost. Worth a second look.
Maybe you were asleep if your armchair zzzz
Seems you are the only one with this opinion, maybe tapping your keyboard during a game made you see something no-one else has lol
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Sans Culottes (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:56
I’d be very surprised if we don’t give away an interception try or two.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 15:57
However much we keep shooting ourselves in the foot
We are still in this game
We are still in this game
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:00
Think the ball may have been rolled forward but didn't ever break contact. No knock on in my view.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: SaintsDuncan (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:02
Quote:TunbridgeSaint
And as for the decision to give a penalty against wood, there is no such law as ‘’playing the 9’ and we are entitled to counter ruck, appalling officiating in the last 10mins or so
But there are laws regarding tackling players without the ball. He wasn't bound in and hadn't lifted the ball
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:05
Big T sits Billy V down.
Paul Hill: hold my beer!
Paul Hill: hold my beer!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:06
Lovely from JG, I don’t think his dad ever had a run like that! He’s playing nicely
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:07
How have we not come away with points. 2 tries and a penalty gone begging
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:08
We are playing really well.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:12
Quote:I agree it’s been positive apart from that final bit of executionSaintsAsh
We are playing really well.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:13
Grayson is kicking superbly, and playing very well in general.
Great that we have geniune options at 9 and 10 now
Great that we have geniune options at 9 and 10 now
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:18
Great try!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Stockers (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:18
What a beautiful try to take the lead!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:19
Lovely, strong scrum setting up our backs, and a little bit of luck with the bounce. Lovely rugby
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:19
Lovely try, great pass from Hutch
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:20
Not a bad bunch these academy lads
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:21
Bit of luck with the furbank score but nicely created.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:25
Best thing about Furbank playing 10 appears to be the effect on Grayson! Brilliant game, 2nd half especially
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saintsman94 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:25
I think that's a strange decision to take Grayson off, I think he's been brilliant today
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:32
Why take your best kicker off who's playing best he's played all season? Very odd decision.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:33
Mallinder's looked as rusty as an old bike since coming on! Hopefully it doesn't change the result from where we are now and lets a few cobwebs be blown off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:33:35 by Matthew.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:33:35 by Matthew.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:36
Decision to bring mallinder on looking dangerous.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:36
Mallinder has been very poor today since coming on. I think Boyd might regret taking Grayson off
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:37
I feel like we have left to many points on the field to come away with a win
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:38
Quote:herbie85
Decision to bring mallinder on looking dangerous.
Poor execution doesn't mean it's a poor decision. 🙄
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:39
Quote:AwaywinQuote:herbie85
Decision to bring mallinder on looking dangerous.
Poor execution doesn't mean it's a poor decision. 🙄
Agreed. Doesn't make it any less dangerous!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:40
ANOTHER awful lineout. Must surely lead to points to Bristol from here. Yep, try from Morahan. At least they only scored in the corner - makes the kick as tricky as it can be.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:41:50 by Matthew.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:41:50 by Matthew.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:41
It’s a poor decision because it surrenders momentum and control at a crucial time in the game. When will we learn??
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:42
Conversion sails between the posts. 21 all, 4 mins to play.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:42
Oh dear.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Iamasaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:42
Taking Grayson off has cost us this game.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:43
Total mess from the restart and Bristol score under the posts.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:43
Heartbreaking
If only Cobus was here
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:44:20 by Saint Stokey.
If only Cobus was here
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:16:44:20 by Saint Stokey.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:44
Well indeed we are flaky, see the other thread. The Bristol fans were right!
We are painful!
We are painful!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:44
Quote:Iamasaint
Taking Grayson off has cost us this game.
He may have taken a knock so reserve judgment, put it slightly different way since he has gone off we have contrived to lose the game
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:44
Quote:Iamasaint
Taking Grayson off has cost us this game.
21-14 when he went off, wasn't it? Have really lacked control since. 21-28 now with 2 to play.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:44
Another game thrown away. And all that positive play for nothing
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:44
Another overthrown lineout led to a try and why did they not tell Harry to kick the restart deep into their 22?
Also this is on the coaches for subbing Grayson
Also this is on the coaches for subbing Grayson
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:45
I know why we're not clinical at this stage of our development cycle but jesus christ it is frustrating!!!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:45
Unfortunately once again, Harry Mallinder’s inability to control a game under pressure costs us. Not the right time to bring him on
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:45
Really
FFS
So frustrating
FFS
So frustrating
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:46
Not directing any blame towards Mallinder, top player short of minutes. But terrible, terrible call from coaches if this was a tactical change.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:46
Quote:StBuckby
Another overthrown lineout led to a try and why did they not tell Harry to kick the restart deep into their 22?
Also this is on the coaches for subbing Grayson
Not if he was injured..we don’t know why he was replaced
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: white lion (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:46
I have just melted my tv with a string of expletives!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:46
Why oh why did we take Grayson off?
I don’t think he was injured as he looked gutted to be taken off.
Good performance and undone by an unlucky bounce of the ball, we benefitted from one earlier in the match.
These things happen!
I don’t think he was injured as he looked gutted to be taken off.
Good performance and undone by an unlucky bounce of the ball, we benefitted from one earlier in the match.
These things happen!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:47
Bad result that, like the Bath game. In front, looking comfortable enough, and then it all crumbles to dust.
The lineout is costing us big time, and taking Grayson off didn't help at all.
The lineout is costing us big time, and taking Grayson off didn't help at all.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:47
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Again! We do all the hard work! Get ourselves into a winning position! And still find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot. 100% on the management this time. The players should feel badly let down. Whichever genius decided to take off Grayson should wear sackcloth and ashes all week!
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!...........Stupid!
Again! We do all the hard work! Get ourselves into a winning position! And still find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot. 100% on the management this time. The players should feel badly let down. Whichever genius decided to take off Grayson should wear sackcloth and ashes all week!
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!...........Stupid!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:47
Or bringing Harry on was a shambolic decision.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: St. Andy (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:47
I have no idea why Mallinder came cost the game no doubt about it.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Dave Jackson (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:48
Unless he had a niggle taking Grayson off was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:48
Both hookers had trouble at the lineout and it's something that needs addressing asap otherwise this will keep on happening.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:49
Decision making towards the end wasn’t the best
However if e had turned pressure into points which we should have done we wouldn’t have been in that position
However if e had turned pressure into points which we should have done we wouldn’t have been in that position
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Iamasaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:49
Quote:You may be correct, but looking at his reaction to going off and the penalty miss, I don’t think so.Walks11Quote:Iamasaint
Taking Grayson off has cost us this game.
He may have taken a knock so reserve judgment, put it slightly different way since he has gone off we have contrived to lose the game
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:49
Quote:saint krige
Not directing any blame towards Mallinder, top player short of minutes. But terrible, terrible call from coaches if this was a tactical change.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
I think some blame has to be attributed to Mallinder. If I have a bad day at work, I have to take some blame. It’s not saying he is a bad player, but the lack of control and poor kicking is on him. Not saying that’s the only reason we lost.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:50
Quote:stoofer
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Again! We do all the hard work! Get ourselves into a winning position! And still find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot. 100% on the management this time. The players should feel badly let down. Whichever genius decided to take off Grayson should wear sackcloth and ashes all week!
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!...........Stupid!
This is the content I'm here for. Insightful.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:50
That's what you get when you dont play a fly half, why take James off just dont understand that.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saintsman94 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:50
Real sucker punch that game. Absolutely should have won it and I can't remember the last time I thought a substitution was as poor as Grayson coming off today. He didn't seem to get any treatment after he came off and was left to take the penalty kick so safe to assume he wasn't injured.
I don't see us seeing out many tight games while out bench has Mallinder and Taylor on it. Harry is just far too rusty and uncertain.
I don't see us seeing out many tight games while out bench has Mallinder and Taylor on it. Harry is just far too rusty and uncertain.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Rugbyman01 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:51
Should not of taken Grayson off. Mallinder is totally short of game time and needs a period on loan. The coaches have to take responsibility for that loss completely. Frustrating to watch last 20 mins.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Helmet and sack (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:51
Really poor substitution. Mallinder looked shocked to be there. Our overall skill levels are not quite up to the required standard. We need some reinforcements.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:52
Another game we should of won . Typical saints . Bristol did not really do much n still got the bp.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:52
Devastating but I'm not going to start call for heads to start rolling.
Bristol are very good. Did we really expect to get anywhere close to Bristol today?
Play like that in our remaining 6 fixtures and that's 5 or 6 wins!
Bristol are very good. Did we really expect to get anywhere close to Bristol today?
Play like that in our remaining 6 fixtures and that's 5 or 6 wins!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:52
Quote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:saint krige
Not directing any blame towards Mallinder, top player short of minutes. But terrible, terrible call from coaches if this was a tactical change.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
I think some blame has to be attributed to Mallinder. If I have a bad day at work, I have to take some blame. It’s not saying he is a bad player, but the lack of control and poor kicking is on him. Not saying that’s the only reason we lost.
He should've gone to 15 or wing, not to 10, especially when Grayson kicking so well.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: jdusty (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:52
It was however, a very entertaining game and I thought the guys played well. Against the in form team a LBP at least keeps us 5th with only 1 point off a play off place.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Statesman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:53
That one is on Boyd. Taking Grayson off on 60 minutes was suicide. He was our best player today! Zero indication in his body language that he had a knock. Unbelievable! Line out a shambles yet again.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:54
Really getting sick of playing well and taking the positives tbh. I’m sure the players are too! We really should be turning these performances into W’s.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: herbie85 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:54
Games like this and bath will mean we won't make top 4 this year. Our game management needs work to be nearer the sides at the top. When we concede, to compound that straight away is poor really.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:55
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:saint krige
Not directing any blame towards Mallinder, top player short of minutes. But terrible, terrible call from coaches if this was a tactical change.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
I think some blame has to be attributed to Mallinder. If I have a bad day at work, I have to take some blame. It’s not saying he is a bad player, but the lack of control and poor kicking is on him. Not saying that’s the only reason we lost.
He should've gone to 15 or wing, not to 10, especially when Grayson kicking so well.
I agree if he had to take Grayson off, push Furbank to 10 and slot Harry at Fullback.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:55
As an addition, I wonder why Mallinder took the kick for the Pen?
We had Francis and Hutchinson on the pitch who have been kicking well for us recently, surprised he was the next cab off the rank.
Might not have changed the result but 24-21 and we possibly kick the restart deep rather than trying to regain the ball.
All ifs and buts, a performance like that next week should get a W against Worcester
We had Francis and Hutchinson on the pitch who have been kicking well for us recently, surprised he was the next cab off the rank.
Might not have changed the result but 24-21 and we possibly kick the restart deep rather than trying to regain the ball.
All ifs and buts, a performance like that next week should get a W against Worcester
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:56
Just seen the league table flash up - just 6 points separate us in 5th and Wasps in 10th. Could be anywhere come the end of the season, especially with the results from games like this one turning on a sixpence.
(We're 6 points away from Sale in 4th now, aren't we?)
(We're 6 points away from Sale in 4th now, aren't we?)
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:56
If there is some psychodrama going on between Boyd and Grayson then it needs to get sorted ASAP too!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Flyhooker (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:57
Excatly right in previous posts, the management lost us that game by putting Mallinder on at such a crucial time. Bad decision and did not do the lad any favours.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: tildesley (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:57
If taking Grayson off, why didn't Francis take over the kicking? I believe he was on at the time.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:58
Ah, the bounce of the rugby ball.
A matter of luck.
But who do we attribute the original statement "One makes one's own luck"?
Or "the more I practice the luckier I get"?
Of course, it helps if you leave your players to play in their best positions and stop *%&$£ about!
A matter of luck.
But who do we attribute the original statement "One makes one's own luck"?
Or "the more I practice the luckier I get"?
Of course, it helps if you leave your players to play in their best positions and stop *%&$£ about!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Berkshire-Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:58
Quote:Coltnet
Why was Mallinder put on? He does not deserve to be anywhere near this team. That is shocking management.
Bit harsh
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Brewster345 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:59
Quote:Statesman
That one is on Boyd. Taking Grayson off on 60 minutes was suicide. He was our best player today! Zero indication in his body language that he had a knock. Unbelievable! Line out a shambles yet again.
I think Chris Boyd is a bit of a fraud.
And we've got him for at least another season.
Between that and England keeping Jones, it's pretty depressing watching talent being wasted.
Also, I'm not going to completely put that on Mallinder, but I'm surprised to see some in here still think he's a good player. He's mediocre at best now (injuries and lack of progression). Shouldn't be in this squad and needs to be let find a new situation to start again.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 16:59
Grayson must be SO frustrated - and weeping!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:00
Mallinder was on for a handful of minutes in a team of 23. Mallinder wasn't on the pitch for Bristols first 2 tries.
The team lost.
Yes, we should be getting wins from games like this and on another day we could have done. I'm pretty confident that if we play like that for the rest of the season, we'll be in the top 4.
All is not lost. We're 5th following losing a record number of games in a row. Things could be a lot worse!
The team lost.
Yes, we should be getting wins from games like this and on another day we could have done. I'm pretty confident that if we play like that for the rest of the season, we'll be in the top 4.
All is not lost. We're 5th following losing a record number of games in a row. Things could be a lot worse!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:00
Grayson must be SO frustrated - and weeping!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: BerniesBestFriend (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:00
Said it at the time...why, oh why are we talking Jimmy off!Sorry Boydy, big mistake there buddy.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:01
I must admit to never having quite understood why some rave about Harry.
I also said to the other half after that pen was missed that we would contrive not just to draw but to lose the game. We sadly do have a soft underbelly and have for years.
I also said to the other half after that pen was missed that we would contrive not just to draw but to lose the game. We sadly do have a soft underbelly and have for years.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saintfanh (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:01
Incredibly frustrating and a v poor coaching decision. we need to decide whether Harry first position is going to be full back or fly half and then give him proper game time on loan rather than throw him on for twenty mins in a position he's barely played against the most dangerous team in the premiership.
That said as bad as that decision was our coaches have also got e to the position of playing that quality of rugby against the top team in the premiership. It was really a great second half performance until that last 5mins and if we play like that, defend like that and keep our discipline like that we'll be top 4 or at least very close. Just have to hope Sale and/or Quins slip up a few times!
That said as bad as that decision was our coaches have also got e to the position of playing that quality of rugby against the top team in the premiership. It was really a great second half performance until that last 5mins and if we play like that, defend like that and keep our discipline like that we'll be top 4 or at least very close. Just have to hope Sale and/or Quins slip up a few times!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:03
Sick of hearing how Bristol are missing so many players. We missed a number as well. Is it me or do Brizz get away with almost constant offside whenrucks form?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:03
The likes of Mallinder (and probably Taylor too) are suffering from there being no Wanderers games in which to pick up any kind of match sharpness. Good idea whoever said that he could out on loan - now that the 6 Nations are over and Biggar's coming back, between Biggar, Grayson, and Furbank we'd be well stocked at 10 even with Mallinder away, and it would give Mallinder opportunity to rebuild his playing sharpness.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:03
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:04
Putting any loss on one player is shortsighted imo. The team needs to learn to be clinical and develop some mental fortitude to go along side our excellent ambition and skills. It's key if we are to challenge for honours.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Matthew (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:05
Quote:fleetg
I must admit to never having quite understood why some rave about Harry.
I also said to the other half after that pen was missed that we would contrive not just to draw but to lose the game. We sadly do have a soft underbelly and have for years.
There is - or at least was - an excellent player there, but he's been seriously unfortunate with injuries for the best part of half a decade. In Hartley's book he even goes so far as to say that HM will play for England one day. Hopefully that bad luck won't stop him achieving the potential he has shown before.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:17:06:32 by Matthew.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:05
I had a nervousness about that game
Bristol are riding high at present and sweeping teams away
To be in the game at the death was significant
It shows that we are going in the right direction
Hind sight on changing players and who takes the kicks is only going to cause more frustration
I thought Saints played above my expectations
James is the heartbeat of the team
His speed is allowing the backs time to make plays
Point against the league leaders
Could have/should have been four
On to next week
Bristol are riding high at present and sweeping teams away
To be in the game at the death was significant
It shows that we are going in the right direction
Hind sight on changing players and who takes the kicks is only going to cause more frustration
I thought Saints played above my expectations
James is the heartbeat of the team
His speed is allowing the backs time to make plays
Point against the league leaders
Could have/should have been four
On to next week
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:07
Wow! There are some pretty harsh views here.
If you listen to some on here, we'd have sacked every player, Boyd, Ferg and Vass this season and our best chance of fielding a team would to be to have Darbon and White in our starting front row.
I hope some people here don't have a bad day at work. Could be a raft of p45s being sent out
On the Grayson substitution... Seems that Boyd did have a theory. Seems to have taken responsibility. Now we can get our pitchforks out!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:17:12:23 by Saint Stokey.
If you listen to some on here, we'd have sacked every player, Boyd, Ferg and Vass this season and our best chance of fielding a team would to be to have Darbon and White in our starting front row.
I hope some people here don't have a bad day at work. Could be a raft of p45s being sent out
On the Grayson substitution... Seems that Boyd did have a theory. Seems to have taken responsibility. Now we can get our pitchforks out!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:17:12:23 by Saint Stokey.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:07
Quote:MatthewQuote:fleetg
I must admit to never having quite understood why some rave about Harry.
I also said to the other half after that pen was missed that we would contrive not just to draw but to lose the game. We sadly do have a soft underbelly and have for years.
There is - or at least was - an excellent player there, but he's been seriously unfortunate with injuries for the best part of half a decade. In Hartley's book he even goes so far as to say that HM will play for England one day. Hopefully that bad luck won't stop him achieving the potential he has shown before.
I’d like to have some of whatever Dylan was smoking when he wrote that. Never in a million years.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:07
Quote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:saint krigeQuote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:saint krige
Not directing any blame towards Mallinder, top player short of minutes. But terrible, terrible call from coaches if this was a tactical change.
Find myself wincing when Haywood comes on, Matavesi offers so much more.
I think some blame has to be attributed to Mallinder. If I have a bad day at work, I have to take some blame. It’s not saying he is a bad player, but the lack of control and poor kicking is on him. Not saying that’s the only reason we lost.
He should've gone to 15 or wing, not to 10, especially when Grayson kicking so well.
I agree if he had to take Grayson off, push Furbank to 10 and slot Harry at Fullback.
100% and it’s finally unfair on Harry to slot into 10, a specialist position he rarely plays, cold off the bench. The only logic to do a sub is to put Furbank at 10 who’s had time there recently and who has been involved in the whole game.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:08
Quote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:09
Glass half full
We played very well overall. Biggar is back next week and should fit into this new style better. I’m also excited to see what Mitchell can do with this quick ruck ball, I think Ribbans will add a further edge up front and Lewis is back soon
I still think we win the next few games
We played very well overall. Biggar is back next week and should fit into this new style better. I’m also excited to see what Mitchell can do with this quick ruck ball, I think Ribbans will add a further edge up front and Lewis is back soon
I still think we win the next few games
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:10
Exciting game what really cost us was not scoring early on when we were getting an endless supply of quick ball. That seems to sum up where we are currently much improved in the forwards, defence much better but with the odd lapse like their first try but no ability to control a game.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:11
There's plenty of genuine positives from that game, we played really nice rugby in parts and defence has improved no end. Biggar back will make a big difference.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:12
About time Boyd apologized on BT for crass decision making. Is he sothick skinned he cannot recognise poor decision making off field!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Helmet and sack (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:14
Bizarre reference to wanting a 'longer kicking game' from Boyd.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: pksaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:16
Quote:Saint Stokey
Devastating but I'm not going to start call for heads to start rolling.
Bristol are very good. Did we really expect to get anywhere close to Bristol today?
Play like that in our remaining 6 fixtures and that's 5 or 6 wins!
That is definitely not the point. We WERE in a position to win the game and blew it.
Agree with many of the others, if you feel the need to bring Mallinder on put him at 15 and play Furbank at 10. He's played in that position recently and reasonably well.
Crazy!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:16
I presume everything that's being said on here would be said to the player or coaches' faces?
Coltnet?
Coltnet?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:16
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
He is mentally weak. You can see it in the way he is snatching at kicks etc. He doesn’t look like he trusts himself or believes what he is doing will come off. It’s sad, but he shouldn’t be put in that position. Playing the top team is not the place to get some game time. Quite simply he should not be playing if he isn’t ready. He needs to go out on loan as others have said. Disgraceful comment because you don’t agree? He has never been physical you might say. But he looks so out of sorts he simply isn’t the player that his early talent suggested. I would love to be proved wrong of course.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:18
Quote:Saint Stokey
Wow! There are some pretty harsh views here.
If you listen to some on here, we'd have sacked every player, Boyd, Ferg and Vass this season and our best chance of fielding a team would to be to have Darbon and White in our starting front row.
I hope some people here don't have a bad day at work. Could be a raft of p45s being sent out
On the Grayson substitution... Seems that Boyd did have a theory. Seems to have taken responsibility. Now we can get our pitchforks out!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:18
Quote:Saint Stokey
I presume everything that's being said on here would be said to the player or coaches' faces?
Coltnet?
To who specifically? There seems to be this misnomer that players are going whack you I’d say they didn’t play well. There is no way that a player doesn’t know they were poor.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:18
Well the logic is that Harry has a much longer boot and should have been used to gain territory in the ping pong exchanges, James does have a shorter kick and we saw that on some exchanges in the first half
But I don’t think that justified upsetting our rhythm
In any case I don’t see why he can’t do that as full back? Have Piers kick at goal surely to God
But I don’t think that justified upsetting our rhythm
In any case I don’t see why he can’t do that as full back? Have Piers kick at goal surely to God
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:20
Quote:ColtnetQuote:saint krigeQuote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
He is mentally weak. You can see it in the way he is snatching at kicks etc. He doesn’t look like he trusts himself or believes what he is doing will come off. It’s sad, but he shouldn’t be put in that position. Playing the top team is not the place to get some game time. Quite simply he should not be playing if he isn’t ready. He needs to go out on loan as others have said. Disgraceful comment because you don’t agree? He has never been physical you might say. But he looks so out of sorts he simply isn’t the player that his early talent suggested. I would love to be proved wrong of course.
Disgraceful because he was out for a prolonged period which takes incredible character to come back from.Mentally weak can't be fairly attributed to HM.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Iamasaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:20
Crikey.
I thought taking Grayson off was a bad decision and, probably cost us the game. But some of the comments on here about Harry M are disgraceful.
I thought taking Grayson off was a bad decision and, probably cost us the game. But some of the comments on here about Harry M are disgraceful.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:20
Quote:StBuckby
Well the logic is that Harry has a much longer boot and should have been used to gain territory in the ping pong exchanges, James does have a shorter kick and we saw that on some exchanges in the first half
But I don’t think that justified upsetting our rhythm
In any case I don’t see why he can’t do that as full back? Have Piers kick at goal surely to God
Completely agree. Also think JG is a confidence player and his tail was up. Shouldn’t have changed.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:20
I could not have cared less about top four at lunchtime today and that feeling is simply re-inforced after that performance. This is a non-season played behind closed doors, its not going to live long in the memory. We have given youth its head and it has paid huge dividends but some of the decision making both on and off the field seems a best amateurish; this team, this club, does not have the hard edge needed to see out games on a regular basis and until they achieve that through growing experience or canny recruitment we will struggle to compete week in, week out at the highest level.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Gaipajama (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:20
Boyd was very honest in the interview at the end on Radio Noddy. He put Mallinder on for his extra kick-distance. At the time, I thought the same - that to achieve the final quarter game management (pinning them into the corner from ball gained in our own half) we could really use a kicker with greater out-of-hand range than Grayson/Hutch/Dingwall.
It's hard, though, to argue that Grayson was the right person to bring off in that situation (unless he had a niggle, of course); changing up the midfield to give a Grayson/Mallinder/Francis axis seems - and seemed at the time - to be a more certain way to produce the 'pin them in there' effect, giving three good boot options to deal with most situations. And from the sound of it, Boyd probably realises that too.
We can always expect the top team in the league to pull a few rabbits out of the hat, and Bristol certainly did this today. For me, the issue that needs working on as a matter of priority would be lineout consistency. It was a bit of a lottery last week, too.
It's hard, though, to argue that Grayson was the right person to bring off in that situation (unless he had a niggle, of course); changing up the midfield to give a Grayson/Mallinder/Francis axis seems - and seemed at the time - to be a more certain way to produce the 'pin them in there' effect, giving three good boot options to deal with most situations. And from the sound of it, Boyd probably realises that too.
We can always expect the top team in the league to pull a few rabbits out of the hat, and Bristol certainly did this today. For me, the issue that needs working on as a matter of priority would be lineout consistency. It was a bit of a lottery last week, too.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Colonel1960 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:21
Quote:MiskinMountman
Sick of hearing how Bristol are missing so many players. We missed a number as well. Is it me or do Brizz get away with almost constant offside whenrucks form?
Just you...
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:21
Would be nice to let them respond to your overly harsh comments though. Still, a perfect oppotunity to educate Boyd on tactical awareness at the supporters forum!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:21
Quote:ColtnetQuote:saint krigeQuote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
He is mentally weak. You can see it in the way he is snatching at kicks etc. He doesn’t look like he trusts himself or believes what he is doing will come off. It’s sad, but he shouldn’t be put in that position. Playing the top team is not the place to get some game time. Quite simply he should not be playing if he isn’t ready. He needs to go out on loan as others have said. Disgraceful comment because you don’t agree? He has never been physical you might say. But he looks so out of sorts he simply isn’t the player that his early talent suggested. I would love to be proved wrong of course.
If you’ve ever played sports at a decent level you’ll know that having regular game time is very important to produce good performances. Being thrust into a playmaking role at the end of a game when you’ve been largely injured for 4 years and then played elsewhere is asking a lot.
I don’t see anything to suggest he’s mentally weak, he’s just not played a lot at 10 or kicked much as goal for years.
He should have gone to 15, Piers should have kicked at goal.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint BB (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:22
Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgraceful. From our own supporters! Sort yourselves out. We lost a very good game of rugby against the league’s top team. The personal insults aimed at some of our players are unacceptable.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:22
Quote:saint krigeQuote:ColtnetQuote:saint krigeQuote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
He is mentally weak. You can see it in the way he is snatching at kicks etc. He doesn’t look like he trusts himself or believes what he is doing will come off. It’s sad, but he shouldn’t be put in that position. Playing the top team is not the place to get some game time. Quite simply he should not be playing if he isn’t ready. He needs to go out on loan as others have said. Disgraceful comment because you don’t agree? He has never been physical you might say. But he looks so out of sorts he simply isn’t the player that his early talent suggested. I would love to be proved wrong of course.
Disgraceful because he was out for a prolonged period which takes incredible character to come back from.Mentally weak can't be fairly attributed to HM.
Totally agree
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:22
Quote:Saint Stokey
Wow! There are some pretty harsh views here.
If you listen to some on here, we'd have sacked every player, Boyd, Ferg and Vass this season and our best chance of fielding a team would to be to have Darbon and White in our starting front row.
I hope some people here don't have a bad day at work. Could be a raft of p45s being sent out
On the Grayson substitution... Seems that Boyd did have a theory. Seems to have taken responsibility. Now we can get our pitchforks out!
Boyd's theories at times are very questionable!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:23
Quote:MatthewQuote:fleetg
I must admit to never having quite understood why some rave about Harry.
I also said to the other half after that pen was missed that we would contrive not just to draw but to lose the game. We sadly do have a soft underbelly and have for years.
There is - or at least was - an excellent player there, but he's been seriously unfortunate with injuries for the best part of half a decade. In Hartley's book he even goes so far as to say that HM will play for England one day. Hopefully that bad luck won't stop him achieving the potential he has shown before.
I hear you but respectfully disagree.
I have never seen the excellent player you mention pre injuries.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:24
Quote:MiskinMountmanQuote:Saint Stokey
Wow! There are some pretty harsh views here.
If you listen to some on here, we'd have sacked every player, Boyd, Ferg and Vass this season and our best chance of fielding a team would to be to have Darbon and White in our starting front row.
I hope some people here don't have a bad day at work. Could be a raft of p45s being sent out
On the Grayson substitution... Seems that Boyd did have a theory. Seems to have taken responsibility. Now we can get our pitchforks out!
Boyd's theories at times are very questionable!
So educate him with your vast knowledge at the forum!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Stockers (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:25
Quote:pksaint
That is definitely not the point. We WERE in a position to win the game and blew it.
Agree with many of the others, if you feel the need to bring Mallinder on put him at 15 and play Furbank at 10. He's played in that position recently and reasonably well.
Crazy!
I agree, if Grayson had to go off, bring Furbank up to 10 and put Harry at 15. Wheels fell off and the game was lost with Mallinder at 10.
Wrong call by the coaches I'm afraid.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Stockers (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:29
Quote:StBuckby
Glass half full
We played very well overall. Biggar is back next week and should fit into this new style better. I’m also excited to see what Mitchell can do with this quick ruck ball, I think Ribbans will add a further edge up front and Lewis is back soon
I still think we win the next few games
Mitchell will produce slower ball from the ruck than James. His delivery today was exceptional.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:32
We shall see Stockers, the ball is being presented much cleaner and faster than before because the forwards are finally playing like forwards
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:34
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:ColtnetQuote:saint krigeQuote:Coltnet
Absolutely raging with that absolute capitulation. All started when there was a 10 change. I don’t want to turn this into a character assassination, but...I cannot see one positive for making that change. HM cannot control a game. He doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near that team. He just isn’t up to it. He is mentally weak. Injuries won’t have helped but this league is cut throat and there is no room for passengers. I would have been gutted if he was leaving before. Not so much now. Getting fed up of someone messing up and making mistakes and us losing as a result. This is on whoever made that change in management.
This is completely overboard.
He had been out for over 18 months and came back from a career ending injury, and then you call him "mentally weak"? Disgraceful comment.
He is mentally weak. You can see it in the way he is snatching at kicks etc. He doesn’t look like he trusts himself or believes what he is doing will come off. It’s sad, but he shouldn’t be put in that position. Playing the top team is not the place to get some game time. Quite simply he should not be playing if he isn’t ready. He needs to go out on loan as others have said. Disgraceful comment because you don’t agree? He has never been physical you might say. But he looks so out of sorts he simply isn’t the player that his early talent suggested. I would love to be proved wrong of course.
If you’ve ever played sports at a decent level you’ll know that having regular game time is very important to produce good performances. Being thrust into a playmaking role at the end of a game when you’ve been largely injured for 4 years and then played elsewhere is asking a lot.
I don’t see anything to suggest he’s mentally weak, he’s just not played a lot at 10 or kicked much as goal for years.
He should have gone to 15, Piers should have kicked at goal.
As I said, the management decision to make the change was wrong. He isn’t ready and that clearly affected his performance IMO. So if he technically can kick, which he can, his attempt at posts was not great and his kicking from hand was poor. What do you put this down to? It is the top two inches. I completely agree he needs game time.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:35
Quote:StockersQuote:pksaint
That is definitely not the point. We WERE in a position to win the game and blew it.
Agree with many of the others, if you feel the need to bring Mallinder on put him at 15 and play Furbank at 10. He's played in that position recently and reasonably well.
Crazy!
I agree, if Grayson had to go off, bring Furbank up to 10 and put Harry at 15. Wheels fell off and the game was lost with Mallinder at 10.
Wrong call by the coaches I'm afraid.
+1
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:36
The Grayson / Mallinder substitution had the feel of a prearranged call IMO. Totally tone deaf in the context of the game.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:37
Quote:StockersQuote:StBuckby
Glass half full
We played very well overall. Biggar is back next week and should fit into this new style better. I’m also excited to see what Mitchell can do with this quick ruck ball, I think Ribbans will add a further edge up front and Lewis is back soon
I still think we win the next few games
Mitchell will produce slower ball from the ruck than James. His delivery today was exceptional.
James Grayson was first class today. Well done lad!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Coltnet (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:37
Tom James was excellent yet again. Be interesting to see who the #1 9 is when Mitchell is back. It’s James’ shirt for now. Furbank was excellent too. Some great running and security from the back. Looks back to his best.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: fleetg (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:39
We played some decent stuff at times today but sadly weren't clinical enough (again) with territory and possesion.
On another positive note, we are far more aggressive in defence and the scrum is pretty solid.
We sit around where we are as a club at the moment for me and at least we are producing some much better rugby than 6 months ago.
On another positive note, we are far more aggressive in defence and the scrum is pretty solid.
We sit around where we are as a club at the moment for me and at least we are producing some much better rugby than 6 months ago.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:41
Thought that Furbs confidence seemed to be coming back, particularly after his try. That pick up, a nice break...
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:45
So much frustration, but overall, WELL PLAYED SAINTS! DON'T let your head's drop. You ARE a good sside and we love you all! Your day will come and we will wallop the likes of Bristol. Wheels go round!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Rutland Saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:45
Overall a good performance, mystified why they took Grayson off. Boyd said post match they wanted a longer kicking game, still mystified!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:45
Quote:StockersQuote:StBuckby
Glass half full
We played very well overall. Biggar is back next week and should fit into this new style better. I’m also excited to see what Mitchell can do with this quick ruck ball, I think Ribbans will add a further edge up front and Lewis is back soon
I still think we win the next few games
Mitchell will produce slower ball from the ruck than James. His delivery today was exceptional.
I think it will be good to have Mitchell in reserve to come on for the last 10/15 minutes when James starts to tire due to his commitment and workload
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:51
Mitchell definitely doesn't walk back in to the starting team. Should be a good battle between the two 9's.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Rugbyman01 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:56
I read a while back an article from Vesty where he said Saints would not play a player who is not ready. Clearly Mallinder falls Into this category at the moment. I sometimes wonder if another agenda is operating within HM selection.
A loan period would be good and help him rebuild to see if he can actually contribute positively at this level. HM been out a long time and coaches not even sure his best position.
Grayson and Biggar are clearly best 10's, Furbank and Freeman at 15 and I do not believe HM has physicality as a center or speed as a winger. We also have other players within squad who can play these positions outside HM.
A loan period would be good and help him rebuild to see if he can actually contribute positively at this level. HM been out a long time and coaches not even sure his best position.
Grayson and Biggar are clearly best 10's, Furbank and Freeman at 15 and I do not believe HM has physicality as a center or speed as a winger. We also have other players within squad who can play these positions outside HM.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: chappers_saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:56
3rd win this year we have thrown away, this time by an awful tactical decision to bench Grayson. He has every right to be aggrieved with Boyd for that, he was running our game beautifully and when he came off so did the wheels.
So angry, we could have beat the leaders but threw it away. It's stupid decisions and immature nature of the setup right now that is the difference between us being mid table and playoff worthy.
So angry, we could have beat the leaders but threw it away. It's stupid decisions and immature nature of the setup right now that is the difference between us being mid table and playoff worthy.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:58
Quote:saint krige
Mitchell definitely doesn't walk back in to the starting team. Should be a good battle between the two 9's.
Will be good for both of them
And hopefully good for Saints
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Colonel1960 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 17:58
Quote:MiskinMountman
So much frustration, but overall, WELL PLAYED SAINTS! DON'T let your head's drop. You ARE a good sside and we love you all! Your day will come and we will wallop the likes of Bristol. Wheels go round!
I agree that you Saints are a good side, a very good side in the making. But a statement like you ''will wollop the likes of Bristol'' are a bit premature... Thanks for a great game today, missed being at FG (one of my fave away days) good luck for the rest of the season, hope you make top 4
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:18:01:19 by Colonel1960.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:00
Same to you Colonel
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:02
Quote:Saint BB
Some of the comments on here are absolutely disgraceful. From our own supporters! Sort yourselves out. We lost a very good game of rugby against the league’s top team. The personal insults aimed at some of our players are unacceptable.
I don’t think calling someone mentally weak is a personal insult. It’s a comment on his ability and I happen to agree that the mental side of the game is one of his weaknesses. It’s no different to saying he has a weak left foot. He has consistently made mistakes at key points in games for years and has shown an inability to control a game from 10 when we need to close out games.
Knowing that, it’s bizarre how Boyd put him in that position in this game at that time.
Can anyone genuinely disagree with the above?
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:08
Yes, he has a stellar junior career and was the best player at the U20 World Cup running the show for England, kicking well etc. If he had mental frailties he wouldn’t have made it at that age.
I think mistakes are from his stop start career, he hasn’t been able to get into a groove and is constantly moving position
I played 10 and it’s a rhythm position, the coaches shouldn’t have put him in that position
I think mistakes are from his stop start career, he hasn’t been able to get into a groove and is constantly moving position
I played 10 and it’s a rhythm position, the coaches shouldn’t have put him in that position
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:11
I truly believe that when Harry took the field today he wanted to do everything in his power to win the game
I think he tries too hard and makes silly mistakes rather than securing position like his positional kick straight into touch
But he is doing what he can to win games he just needs someone to teach him not to think every move is a game winning move and play a structured game
Does that make him mentally weak
I don’t know
I am not a psychiatrist
Are you ?
I think he tries too hard and makes silly mistakes rather than securing position like his positional kick straight into touch
But he is doing what he can to win games he just needs someone to teach him not to think every move is a game winning move and play a structured game
Does that make him mentally weak
I don’t know
I am not a psychiatrist
Are you ?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:12
Quote:StBuckby
Yes, he has a stellar junior career and was the best player at the U20 World Cup running the show for England, kicking well etc. If he had mental frailties he wouldn’t have made it at that age.
I think mistakes are from his stop start career, he hasn’t been able to get into a groove and is constantly moving position
I played 10 and it’s a rhythm position, the coaches shouldn’t have put him in that position
Ok well I’d respectfully disagree on that one. Premiership rugby is a huge step up from England under 20. There are lots of players who looked good at that level and didn’t even make it at Premiership level. I don’t think his high level performances at that level are an example of mental strength.
I’m basing my views on what I’ve seen of him in a Saints shirt and unfortunately, as much as I’d dearly like to be wrong, my fear is unless he can really turn around his decision making abilities at key points in games, he’s unlikely to kick on and be the player we all thought he could be
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
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Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:19
Well. Thanks for that Saint Stokey. And what are your wonderful ideas? You've always got. a lot to say for yourself.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:21
On the other hand, a game against Bristol could be the perfect oppotunity to give a player minutes. This was a game against the best team in the league, a game that we were unlikely to get anything out of. It was never going to be a game that made or broke our season and was unlikely to have seen us make top 4 single handedly. Its the games against Quins, Sale and Irish thatwere/ are currently the big ones. If Harry getting minutes today means that he can get back to form ready for the league run in, then I'll take this loss.
I think the problem we had was more to do with failing to score when we got into their 5m channel. Whether it be interceptions, fluffed line outs or knock ons, these were all more costly that a missed penalty kick that Grayson could have also missed.
But what do I know? I'm happy to accept that professional coaches and players probably have a better understanding of the game than I do.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:18:25:08 by Saint Stokey.
I think the problem we had was more to do with failing to score when we got into their 5m channel. Whether it be interceptions, fluffed line outs or knock ons, these were all more costly that a missed penalty kick that Grayson could have also missed.
But what do I know? I'm happy to accept that professional coaches and players probably have a better understanding of the game than I do.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:21:18:25:08 by Saint Stokey.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:27
Hello!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Hollywood JK (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:34
For me, poor decisions from the coaches and players. It’s not fair to single Mallinder out. The whole team made poor decisions.
In tight games, we need cool heads and game management, and Grayson would have been best suited. Harry does look out of sorts and short of confidence.
It’s ok having a young team, but I think it’s too young, and suggests we don’t have enough quality in depth these days. We always seem to be less physical than our opponents. Signing a couple of experienced leaders could make a big difference.
I think top four is over. I don’t see Sale and Quinn’s dropping more points than us..
In tight games, we need cool heads and game management, and Grayson would have been best suited. Harry does look out of sorts and short of confidence.
It’s ok having a young team, but I think it’s too young, and suggests we don’t have enough quality in depth these days. We always seem to be less physical than our opponents. Signing a couple of experienced leaders could make a big difference.
I think top four is over. I don’t see Sale and Quinn’s dropping more points than us..
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: MiskinMountman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:37
Quote:chappers_saint
3rd win this year we have thrown away, this time by an awful tactical decision to bench Grayson. He has every right to be aggrieved with Boyd for that, he was running our game beautifully and when he came off so did the wheels.
So angry, we could have beat the leaders but threw it away. It's stupid decisions and immature nature of the setup right now that is the difference between us being mid table and playoff worthy.
Spot on!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:52
It would appear, judging by a tweet from Saints, that the level of bile aimed at players on SM has gone up another notch.
So whilst might all think we have the answer to why we lost, it was definitely not down to a single player or person.
I have been spitting bullets, but at losing. Not at an individual - unless we aim that at Boyd. He is the one who is paid the big bucks to put all this together and makes the calls. Right or wrong.
Once again, SM keyboard warriors find a level of bravery way beyond their IQ. Shame really.
Yes, we lost. I hope the players and coaches take a long, hard look at why. Because it is about time we got used to winning again. (Not just the odd game here and there)
So whilst might all think we have the answer to why we lost, it was definitely not down to a single player or person.
I have been spitting bullets, but at losing. Not at an individual - unless we aim that at Boyd. He is the one who is paid the big bucks to put all this together and makes the calls. Right or wrong.
Once again, SM keyboard warriors find a level of bravery way beyond their IQ. Shame really.
Yes, we lost. I hope the players and coaches take a long, hard look at why. Because it is about time we got used to winning again. (Not just the odd game here and there)
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint BB (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 18:56
Actually Jamie 86 I do think that calling someone ‘mentally weak’ and singling them out for blame is very much a personal insult. The club has just posted on Facebook to ask people to carefully consider comments on social media about individual players. Has Harry read some of these comments? Are we causing him distress by some of the things written on here? We could well be.
I’ve watched with growing dismay at some of the bilge written on this forum. Luckily there are still good people who can critique a game without resorting to individual blame. There is a big focus at the moment on player’s mental health during these tough times and impulsive nasty little remarks on here will not help anyone.
I’ve been a Saints fan for many years and have always ridden that BG&G rollercoaster during our matches. I’m frustrated by today’s result but encouraged by many aspects of our play - as usual a real mixed bag of emotions.
I’ve watched with growing dismay at some of the bilge written on this forum. Luckily there are still good people who can critique a game without resorting to individual blame. There is a big focus at the moment on player’s mental health during these tough times and impulsive nasty little remarks on here will not help anyone.
I’ve been a Saints fan for many years and have always ridden that BG&G rollercoaster during our matches. I’m frustrated by today’s result but encouraged by many aspects of our play - as usual a real mixed bag of emotions.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:08
Quote:Saint BB
Actually Jamie 86 I do think that calling someone ‘mentally weak’ and singling them out for blame is very much a personal insult. The club has just posted on Facebook to ask people to carefully consider comments on social media about individual players. Has Harry read some of these comments? Are we causing him distress by some of the things written on here? We could well be.
I’ve watched with growing dismay at some of the bilge written on this forum. Luckily there are still good people who can critique a game without resorting to individual blame. There is a big focus at the moment on player’s mental health during these tough times and impulsive nasty little remarks on here will not
help anyone.
I’ve been a Saints fan for many years and have always ridden that BG&G rollercoaster during our matches. I’m frustrated by today’s result but encouraged by many aspects of our play - as usual a real mixed bag of emotions.
Well I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I have absolutely no personal dislike of Mallinder as a player or a person, quite the opposite.. but I think a fans forum is exactly where we should be able to make our views on a players ability heard, no? I mean if we can’t voice our perfectly reasonable thoughts about a particular players shortcomings on here then quite frankly what is the point?
I also think Matavesi is a poor line out thrower, Rory Hutshison has some work to do on his defence and Henry Taylor on his speed of passing from rucks.. is that abusive?!
I obviously agree no one should be aiming insults at players directly on social media, that’s ridiculous but is the comparison to comments on this forum about players abilities really a fair one in comparison to idiots who feel the need to directly challenge a player on social media.. I think not.
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: thorpebayexile (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:21
Bristol fan here. I thought that was a great match played at speed by two committed sides. In all honesty you looked the better side for most of the match. From watching as a Bristol fan I couldn't understand why you took Grayson off either. Good luck for the rest of the season.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TheGent (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:33
We've hit a new low with that tweet from the club re fans abusing players on social media.
A massive shame.
A massive shame.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Don't kick it RUN IT (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:38
Can never understand supporters having a pop at players. Not sure if they read this board but if they do, the comments on here would not boost confidence levels. I guarantee no player steps on the pitch meaning to make mistakes. At the end of the day it’s two teams trying to win a game. Only one of them usually wins.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:49
Quote:TheGent
We've hit a new low with that tweet from the club re fans abusing players on social media.
A massive shame.
Quite agree. What a cesspit social media can be.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saintly Pursuit (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 19:52
We are doing so many very good things. We are letting ourselves down by a few things that we are doing badly however these are fixable. We have witnessed that this coaching team can fix issues and we have it within our own gift to improve.
To push the league leaders so close and then to lose is a good frustration to have. With this young team there could be 10% improvement possible. 1or 2% will mean that most close games swing our way. 5% means that we will, at full strength, be far closer to those teams above us when they are full strength.
I never expected us to challenging for titles this season. I am hopefull for better things next season with a serious shot at the title the season after.
To push the league leaders so close and then to lose is a good frustration to have. With this young team there could be 10% improvement possible. 1or 2% will mean that most close games swing our way. 5% means that we will, at full strength, be far closer to those teams above us when they are full strength.
I never expected us to challenging for titles this season. I am hopefull for better things next season with a serious shot at the title the season after.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: 195Rich (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 20:03
Shame for Harry that he didn't grab the chance today. Bringing him on at 10, with 15 minutes to go, in a close game against the team on top of the table was a daft decision. IMHO James Grayson was playing the best game of his career so far, so there was nothing really to be gained other than giving Harry game time and 15 minutes was never going to be long enough.
We should be too strong for Worcester next weekend and if Boyd is serious about re-habilitating Harry he should start him at FB, asking Furbs to take a week off or to occupy a seat on the bench. Harry needs some game time and I reckon the other players would recognise the value of rotation and the need to have Harry playing at his best again, for the good of the team.
James and Grayson deserve to hold on to their places until poor form or injury intervene and Mitchell and Biggar should wait their turn. A genuine competition for places will be good for all four of them.
Api seems to be playing the best rugby of his career at Saints just at the moment, his handling and ball retention has improved no end, so I'd keep him in alongside Dave Ribbans.
Despite a painful loss today I think a lot of players are right in form and the style of play was terrific
Hats off to the coaching staff, it was galling to lose because of a daft decision but the scrum, defence and attack coaches all deserve credit. 2020 was an embarrassment and we would have shipped 40 points this time last year. There is still improvement to be had but I'm hopeful that we are going to become a force to be reckoned with in the next couple of years.
Ironically I think that other than the last 5 minutes and a defeat, when the players look at today's game they will see it as a step forward.
We should be too strong for Worcester next weekend and if Boyd is serious about re-habilitating Harry he should start him at FB, asking Furbs to take a week off or to occupy a seat on the bench. Harry needs some game time and I reckon the other players would recognise the value of rotation and the need to have Harry playing at his best again, for the good of the team.
James and Grayson deserve to hold on to their places until poor form or injury intervene and Mitchell and Biggar should wait their turn. A genuine competition for places will be good for all four of them.
Api seems to be playing the best rugby of his career at Saints just at the moment, his handling and ball retention has improved no end, so I'd keep him in alongside Dave Ribbans.
Despite a painful loss today I think a lot of players are right in form and the style of play was terrific
Hats off to the coaching staff, it was galling to lose because of a daft decision but the scrum, defence and attack coaches all deserve credit. 2020 was an embarrassment and we would have shipped 40 points this time last year. There is still improvement to be had but I'm hopeful that we are going to become a force to be reckoned with in the next couple of years.
Ironically I think that other than the last 5 minutes and a defeat, when the players look at today's game they will see it as a step forward.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: peebee (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 20:35
There is no excuse for such criticism of an individual player. He should never have been placed in that position. With such little game time it was so not right.
James Grayson was playing his best game in a Saints shirt. His distribution, kicking from tee and hand were first class. He was even making clean line breaks and making tackles. His game management was excellent. Just think what the decision to take him off has done for his confidence. It says “you are not capable of closing a game out”.
Chris Boyd’s attempt to justify his decision was lame.
A game lost due to the incompetence of the coaching staff. , not the players.
James Grayson was playing his best game in a Saints shirt. His distribution, kicking from tee and hand were first class. He was even making clean line breaks and making tackles. His game management was excellent. Just think what the decision to take him off has done for his confidence. It says “you are not capable of closing a game out”.
Chris Boyd’s attempt to justify his decision was lame.
A game lost due to the incompetence of the coaching staff. , not the players.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 20:39
6 months ago who’d have thought we would be nitpicking losing to the team at the top of the table by a last minute score.
Largely English qualified squad most of those been brought through the Academy. Scrum improved immeasurably and a coach who admits to have got scrum strategy wrong. Defence also improved significantly and form that is actually pretty good despite mixed results.
The squad is young they will learn from these results and if I’m brutally honest in a COVID disrupted season does it really matter where we finish at the end of the season. Disappointing to lose but I still think there is a lot to be positive about, we seem to be heading in the right direction and with that results will come. ‘Flaky’ we may be but no side will relish playing us right now
Largely English qualified squad most of those been brought through the Academy. Scrum improved immeasurably and a coach who admits to have got scrum strategy wrong. Defence also improved significantly and form that is actually pretty good despite mixed results.
The squad is young they will learn from these results and if I’m brutally honest in a COVID disrupted season does it really matter where we finish at the end of the season. Disappointing to lose but I still think there is a lot to be positive about, we seem to be heading in the right direction and with that results will come. ‘Flaky’ we may be but no side will relish playing us right now
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 21:05
Quote:Jamie_86Quote:StBuckby
Yes, he has a stellar junior career and was the best player at the U20 World Cup running the show for England, kicking well etc. If he had mental frailties he wouldn’t have made it at that age.
I think mistakes are from his stop start career, he hasn’t been able to get into a groove and is constantly moving position
I played 10 and it’s a rhythm position, the coaches shouldn’t have put him in that position
Ok well I’d respectfully disagree on that one. Premiership rugby is a huge step up from England under 20. There are lots of players who looked good at that level and didn’t even make it at Premiership level. I don’t think his high level performances at that level are an example of mental strength.
I’m basing my views on what I’ve seen of him in a Saints shirt and unfortunately, as much as I’d dearly like to be wrong, my fear is unless he can really turn around his decision making abilities at key points in games, he’s unlikely to kick on and be the player we all thought he could be
I played with guys at a much lower level who lacked the mental edge so I appreciate it exists of course. I just don’t think you can judge him on that until he has a settled place in a side.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 21:09
Fair enough mate
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: chappers_saint (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 21:40
Quote:Walks11
6 months ago who’d have thought we would be nitpicking losing to the team at the top of the table by a last minute score.
Largely English qualified squad most of those been brought through the Academy. Scrum improved immeasurably and a coach who admits to have got scrum strategy wrong. Defence also improved significantly and form that is actually pretty good despite mixed results.
The squad is young they will learn from these results and if I’m brutally honest in a COVID disrupted season does it really matter where we finish at the end of the season. Disappointing to lose but I still think there is a lot to be positive about, we seem to be heading in the right direction and with that results will come. ‘Flaky’ we may be but no side will relish playing us right now
I think this is what smarts, we are good enough to win these games but squandered the opportunity several times now. If we were beat by the better time, fine. If we played well but not able to be in a position to win, fine. What gets to me is we were there to win it but gave it away.
I believe in this team but it bloody hurts when we lose under similar circumstances time and again. Prior losses, put on the players composre and smarts but this sits with the gaffer.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Statesman (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 22:06
I was hoping that a bottle of red wine would quell my anger at today’s loss - sadly it hasn’t - I’m still fuming. The decision to take Grayson off is up there with the Waller call to ‘scrum again’ against Leinster - utterly unfathomable.
Boyd had thrown Grayson on the rubbish heap for several weeks. He came back last week and played very well. Today he was outstanding - he earned the right to stay on the pitch, lead us to victory and take the MOM award. His body language told us exactly what he thought of the decision.
Instead Boyd exposed Harry to the risk of failing to bring home the W with the predictable outcome - actually felt sorry for Harry - I agree with the comment above he should start at 15 next week.
I’ve been unerringly supportive of Boyd but the decision today was inexcusable.
Boyd had thrown Grayson on the rubbish heap for several weeks. He came back last week and played very well. Today he was outstanding - he earned the right to stay on the pitch, lead us to victory and take the MOM award. His body language told us exactly what he thought of the decision.
Instead Boyd exposed Harry to the risk of failing to bring home the W with the predictable outcome - actually felt sorry for Harry - I agree with the comment above he should start at 15 next week.
I’ve been unerringly supportive of Boyd but the decision today was inexcusable.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: peebee (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 23:14
Undoubtedly one of the coaching blunders of the season.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 23:31
An enjoyable game with plenty of positives. I saw a lot of good individual performances and a high team energy and commitment. We lack the nous and leadership to close tight games out so I don't get surprised when we lose a tight game against the league leaders.
Whilst agreeing the Grayson substitution did cost us, ultimately the defensive lapses leading to tries and not taking our chances near to Bristol's line cost us the game more than any substitution.
Whilst agreeing the Grayson substitution did cost us, ultimately the defensive lapses leading to tries and not taking our chances near to Bristol's line cost us the game more than any substitution.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Gordo (IP Logged)
Date: 21/03/2021 23:51
Quote:I don't blame Harry at all. He was not at fault on defence which allowed the try out wide nor the long kick return at the end. In fact, it was a great kick. Yes, he made mistakes, but in the past he has shown he can normally make those plays, so I have no worries for him. And to take shots at him on social media is nuts. I don't spend much time on it outside of with my medical groups and my Rugby club, so I have no idea what was written. Saints are showing a disappointing trend to lose leads late. That is a 100% team thing which should focus on the coaching staff.Statesman
I was hoping that a bottle of red wine would quell my anger at today’s loss - sadly it hasn’t - I’m still fuming. The decision to take Grayson off is up there with the Waller call to ‘scrum again’ against Leinster - utterly unfathomable.
Boyd had thrown Grayson on the rubbish heap for several weeks. He came back last week and played very well. Today he was outstanding - he earned the right to stay on the pitch, lead us to victory and take the MOM award. His body language told us exactly what he thought of the decision.
Instead Boyd exposed Harry to the risk of failing to bring home the W with the predictable outcome - actually felt sorry for Harry - I agree with the comment above he should start at 15 next week.
I’ve been unerringly supportive of Boyd but the decision today was inexcusable.
Coaches sometimes make a plan and stick rigidly to it and don't adjust (Eddie Jones) to how the game goes on. To me, Grayson was playing great in a tight match. Why sub him for anyone? Harry or anyone. Boyd's issue.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 00:02
Boyd has said it was a coaching decision and therefore it lies on him and he admitted that he got it wrong. Not sure that he really needs to apologise to us.
Anyway, he's admitted it. Time to move on!
Anyway, he's admitted it. Time to move on!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Santiago (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 00:18
Quote:StBuckby
Another overthrown lineout led to a try and why did they not tell Harry to kick the restart deep into their 22?
Also this is on the coaches for subbing Grayson
Absolutely, and also a couple of other games that might have been won with a proper flyhalf palying
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Santiago (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 00:41
Next week Biggar and Mitchell should start on the bench.
And Harry should start at15. He is a very good player dropped in the s today, realistically how could he have been up to speed.
And Harry should start at15. He is a very good player dropped in the s today, realistically how could he have been up to speed.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 05:13
We have people ahead of him for 15
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: ajack (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 07:54
Quote:Saint Maul
An enjoyable game with plenty of positives. I saw a lot of good individual performances and a high team energy and commitment. We lack the nous and leadership to close tight games out so I don't get surprised when we lose a tight game against the league leaders.
Whilst agreeing the Grayson substitution did cost us, ultimately the defensive lapses leading to tries and not taking our chances near to Bristol's line cost us the game more than any substitution.
A very good and balanced summary.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Big daddy 3 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:07
Quote:ajackQuote:Saint Maul
An enjoyable game with plenty of positives. I saw a lot of good individual performances and a high team energy and commitment. We lack the nous and leadership to close tight games out so I don't get surprised when we lose a tight game against the league leaders.
Whilst agreeing the Grayson substitution did cost us, ultimately the defensive lapses leading to tries and not taking our chances near to Bristol's line cost us the game more than any substitution.
A very good and balanced summary.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:15
At the end of the day it was an unnecessary defeat at home but that being said it was an absorbing contest for which a 21-21 draw would not have been an unfair outcome. This young side needs a couple of old heads in key positions that can both calm things down and provide some impetus when required by the match situation.
Lets get one thing straight, Harry Mallinder did not cost Saints the game. The replacement of Grayson looked pre-planned and by general consensus was one of the daftest substitutions we have ever seen. Whether this stroke of genius was down to Chris Boyd or one of his assistants we may never know but the old adage of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' surely comes to mind. If a big boot was needed then swapping Harry and George around would make sense.
We used to scratch our heads when Jim and Doreen made multiple changes when defending a slim lead on our own try line - they never seemed to work. I can see the logic and fresh legs in the front row as a pre-planned move as few players in the front three seem to be conditioned to play eighty minutes. Are we, however, jumping on the EJ bandwagon of 'starters and finishers' and trying to be a little too clever for our own good.
Random thoughts !
Lets get one thing straight, Harry Mallinder did not cost Saints the game. The replacement of Grayson looked pre-planned and by general consensus was one of the daftest substitutions we have ever seen. Whether this stroke of genius was down to Chris Boyd or one of his assistants we may never know but the old adage of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' surely comes to mind. If a big boot was needed then swapping Harry and George around would make sense.
We used to scratch our heads when Jim and Doreen made multiple changes when defending a slim lead on our own try line - they never seemed to work. I can see the logic and fresh legs in the front row as a pre-planned move as few players in the front three seem to be conditioned to play eighty minutes. Are we, however, jumping on the EJ bandwagon of 'starters and finishers' and trying to be a little too clever for our own good.
Random thoughts !
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:16
Well that was frustrating wasn't it?
dont blame Harry, got dropped in it, miss kicks happen... Some welsh are blaming swapping Biggar for Sheedyo there lost, where previous week bringing Sheedy on was a master stroke??? sometimes it works, sometimes it backs fires
What St Maul said, plenty of good performances out their and Bristol scored 2 tries and we hadnt missed a tackle!
Was one that got away, sadly
Dont forget this is fundamentally a very young squad, they will learn from this and from this season, they will get better and better, we know we have a few gaps and these are being addressed.
So yesterday was bit fed up and frustrated, now I am over it and thought we played really well and can believe we will get there and look at that performance against those last year!
dont blame Harry, got dropped in it, miss kicks happen... Some welsh are blaming swapping Biggar for Sheedyo there lost, where previous week bringing Sheedy on was a master stroke??? sometimes it works, sometimes it backs fires
What St Maul said, plenty of good performances out their and Bristol scored 2 tries and we hadnt missed a tackle!
Was one that got away, sadly
Dont forget this is fundamentally a very young squad, they will learn from this and from this season, they will get better and better, we know we have a few gaps and these are being addressed.
So yesterday was bit fed up and frustrated, now I am over it and thought we played really well and can believe we will get there and look at that performance against those last year!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Ted (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:26
The thing is, had Harry come on and the plan to pin them back in their own half had worked and maybe got another try from forcing a Bristol error, people would be saying the substitution worked well.
Boyd and the other coaches clearly had confidence in Harry to come on and change thigs up a bit, with hindsight, it didn't work
On the flip side, much as Grayson was having an amazing game, he could quite easily have thrown an interception pass or made some other error which could have cost us a try.
Sometimes best laid plans just don't work out.
But as others have said, it wasn't just the substitution that cost us the came, over throwing at the lineout for me was just as much of a problem.
Plus, this is Bristol, they are a very very good team and know how to win games
Boyd and the other coaches clearly had confidence in Harry to come on and change thigs up a bit, with hindsight, it didn't work
On the flip side, much as Grayson was having an amazing game, he could quite easily have thrown an interception pass or made some other error which could have cost us a try.
Sometimes best laid plans just don't work out.
But as others have said, it wasn't just the substitution that cost us the came, over throwing at the lineout for me was just as much of a problem.
Plus, this is Bristol, they are a very very good team and know how to win games
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:37
Boyd has held his hands up on the substitution front but these things are so much easier with hindsight, if Mallinder had come on and kicked a penalty from the halfway which he's perfectly capable of doing then we'd be lauding it.
Equally as others have said no one thing lost the game, we weren't efficient enough early on, did really well to come back from being down and then ended up right where we didn't want to be - chasing a game late on against Bristol which led to an error and, not taking anything from Bristol, a decent slice of luck in terms of how the ball bounced for that last try.
Bristol are farther along their journey and it showed, they have more belief and more control. A great game to watch despite the result, we looked better in patches as did they. So many positives to take away and a losing bonus point against the league leaders. I think perhaps some of the frustration is coming from the fact that we are getting closer and putting ourselves in winning positions but not getting over the line, that's sometimes harder to take than a clear loss.
Hopefully the players don't read forums like this which does make it a little different to commenting on social media to try and make them see the criticism. Yes we can critique tactics, selection and performance but there's a big difference between such and such didn't have their best game or looked rusty and they don't belong anywhere near the team or are mentally weak (well worth watching some of the videos that are around about player rehab - it's a very lonely place and very tough work).
Equally as others have said no one thing lost the game, we weren't efficient enough early on, did really well to come back from being down and then ended up right where we didn't want to be - chasing a game late on against Bristol which led to an error and, not taking anything from Bristol, a decent slice of luck in terms of how the ball bounced for that last try.
Bristol are farther along their journey and it showed, they have more belief and more control. A great game to watch despite the result, we looked better in patches as did they. So many positives to take away and a losing bonus point against the league leaders. I think perhaps some of the frustration is coming from the fact that we are getting closer and putting ourselves in winning positions but not getting over the line, that's sometimes harder to take than a clear loss.
Hopefully the players don't read forums like this which does make it a little different to commenting on social media to try and make them see the criticism. Yes we can critique tactics, selection and performance but there's a big difference between such and such didn't have their best game or looked rusty and they don't belong anywhere near the team or are mentally weak (well worth watching some of the videos that are around about player rehab - it's a very lonely place and very tough work).
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: stoofer (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:38
But we were already winning the kicking duel with what we had no?
Grayson was in the zone, and clearly playing with a point to prove and the bit between his teeth. He was even taking crash ball on their line ffs.
Boyd's previous comments about him taking time away from the squad and what have you seem to point to some internal dynamics we're not privy to. But taking him off when he's finally providing the control and direction that we've been sorely lacking this season was very strange. You could see how frustrated he was himself. Whatever point was trying to be made it badly backfired, undermining both Grayse and other players who looked to be playing themselves back into form (i.e. Furbs), depriving us of a confidence boosting win, and badly exposing Harry, who is trying to play himself back into form and fitness.
It really is bewildering the extent to which we continue to be our own worst enemy at times this season. So much good stuff, and good performances. But we continue to find ways to self-destruct!
Grayson was in the zone, and clearly playing with a point to prove and the bit between his teeth. He was even taking crash ball on their line ffs.
Boyd's previous comments about him taking time away from the squad and what have you seem to point to some internal dynamics we're not privy to. But taking him off when he's finally providing the control and direction that we've been sorely lacking this season was very strange. You could see how frustrated he was himself. Whatever point was trying to be made it badly backfired, undermining both Grayse and other players who looked to be playing themselves back into form (i.e. Furbs), depriving us of a confidence boosting win, and badly exposing Harry, who is trying to play himself back into form and fitness.
It really is bewildering the extent to which we continue to be our own worst enemy at times this season. So much good stuff, and good performances. But we continue to find ways to self-destruct!
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Rugbyman01 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 09:54
I have watched all games HM has started in last 12 months. Clearly lacking in game time due to injuries over past couple of years and his impact has not be positive on the game plan. Any other player would be asked to go out on Loan to recapture form. HM appears to be treated differently for unknown reasons. Fact is right now he is not at premiership speed and premiership rugby is not a training ground for a player who has been a senior professional for 5 years plus and injured for 3.
The responsibility falls on the coaches and Boyd for selecting a player who is clearly not ready after some serious injuries.
Other than that, the team played welll for 60 mins.
The responsibility falls on the coaches and Boyd for selecting a player who is clearly not ready after some serious injuries.
Other than that, the team played welll for 60 mins.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: shiversaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 10:16
Quote:stoofer
But we were already winning the kicking duel with what we had no?
Grayson was in the zone, and clearly playing with a point to prove and the bit between his teeth. He was even taking crash ball on their line ffs.
Boyd's previous comments about him taking time away from the squad and what have you seem to point to some internal dynamics we're not privy to. But taking him off when he's finally providing the control and direction that we've been sorely lacking this season was very strange. You could see how frustrated he was himself. Whatever point was trying to be made it badly backfired, undermining both Grayse and other players who looked to be playing themselves back into form (i.e. Furbs), depriving us of a confidence boosting win, and badly exposing Harry, who is trying to play himself back into form and fitness.
It really is bewildering the extent to which we continue to be our own worst enemy at times this season. So much good stuff, and good performances. But we continue to find ways to self-destruct!
+1
What's Grayson supposed to do? He had flat out answered his critics in the last two games, clearly wasn't tiring and his kicking was going perfectly well.
Quote:Rugbyman01
I have watched all games HM has started in last 12 months. Clearly lacking in game time due to injuries over past couple of years and his impact has not be positive on the game plan. Any other player would be asked to go out on Loan to recapture form. HM appears to be treated differently for unknown reasons. Fact is right now he is not at premiership speed and premiership rugby is not a training ground for a player who has been a senior professional for 5 years plus and injured for 3.
The responsibility falls on the coaches and Boyd for selecting a player who is clearly not ready after some serious injuries.
Other than that, the team played welll for 60 mins.
I've been thinking this for a while but didn't want to say it. Recent history would say it's unlikely that Harry would come up and exert the control needed to close that game out - to that end, I think it was a bannanas expectation of the coaches to have of him.
I don't really know what Harry needs right now to find his form, but throwing him into the deep at the end of a tight game with the prem table's number 1 side can hardly be it. Maybe, maybe at full back and let furbs take over but it's still way too much of a trial by fire for a guy who's confidence is looking low. I guess this is where not having the wandies is really hurting the overall squad health but the club just isn't in a position to take gambles like this.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Stevie Myler's right boot (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 10:25
Captain Hindsight has been out in force. The people criticising Harry for missing the penalty seem to have forgotten Grayson missed the conversion of Furb’s try from a somewhat similar position but hey let’s all pile in on Harry for losing us the game. The kick to touch was a marginal miss playing for territory, not like it was ballooned into Row Z. Some of the posters on here have behaved like we have some god given right to win every week - we don’t. The logic behind making the change at the time was pretty sound - it didn’t work out but some you win some you lose. Yes it’s one that got away but we did that consistently in 12/13 and look what happened in 2014. We have the foundations of a great team for years to come we can’t just throw money at it like some others can. There was a lot to be pleased about - not many teams that have gone down by 14 points have come back against Bristol
Onwards and upwards
Onwards and upwards
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 12:50
I think there are far too many terrible posts in this thread, singling out players, saying they don't deserve to play, saying the coaches don't deserve to coach. Come on get a grip people, do we really want our sport to go down this road? It breaks by heart to hear all this trash talk about players and coaches because at the end of the day it is Rugby that loses.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 13:00
A lot of it comes from emotion and is a snap shot in time.
When I am at the ground, there is praise shouted at players, there is applause and continual desire to do well.
There is also times when players mess up, drop a pass, miss a kick, kick straight into touch
That is also rewarded with usually some witty comment or shout to get their act together.
It's frustration
Not having the ground or the comradery of like supporters perhaps fans are just letting off stream on this site.
But I take it as just that.
And let's face it ( yet to be proven wrong) no one on this site has coached at premiership level, played at premiership level or even washed kit at premiership level.
It' s a bit like watching a series of casualty and thinking your good to go on open heart surgery.
I wouldn't think for a minute anyone connected with Saints reads this site or takes any notice of Social Media, if they do they need to come off it and be part of the real world.
When I am at the ground, there is praise shouted at players, there is applause and continual desire to do well.
There is also times when players mess up, drop a pass, miss a kick, kick straight into touch
That is also rewarded with usually some witty comment or shout to get their act together.
It's frustration
Not having the ground or the comradery of like supporters perhaps fans are just letting off stream on this site.
But I take it as just that.
And let's face it ( yet to be proven wrong) no one on this site has coached at premiership level, played at premiership level or even washed kit at premiership level.
It' s a bit like watching a series of casualty and thinking your good to go on open heart surgery.
I wouldn't think for a minute anyone connected with Saints reads this site or takes any notice of Social Media, if they do they need to come off it and be part of the real world.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 13:07
I think there's a little tension between Boyd and Grayson and I think Boyd is a fair enough person for it to be worthy.
I have no idea if it's true, but I was told that Grayson's professionalism was questioned in recent months, more lifestyle choices from what was indicted as opposed to out and out bad attitude.
Who knows, but I think HM holds more respect with the coaching staff and wider squad.
I have no idea if it's true, but I was told that Grayson's professionalism was questioned in recent months, more lifestyle choices from what was indicted as opposed to out and out bad attitude.
Who knows, but I think HM holds more respect with the coaching staff and wider squad.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: samlee99 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 13:33
The hypocrisy of some of the posters on this thread is as laughable as it is predictable.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Jamie_86 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 14:15
Quote:samlee99
The hypocrisy of some of the posters on this thread is as laughable as it is predictable.
Please do expand on that...
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 14:16
Quote:Stevie Myler's right boot
Captain Hindsight has been out in force. The people criticising Harry for missing the penalty seem to have forgotten Grayson missed the conversion of Furb’s try from a somewhat similar position but hey let’s all pile in on Harry for losing us the game. The kick to touch was a marginal miss playing for territory, not like it was ballooned into Row Z. Some of the posters on here have behaved like we have some god given right to win every week - we don’t. The logic behind making the change at the time was pretty sound - it didn’t work out but some you win some you lose. Yes it’s one that got away but we did that consistently in 12/13 and look what happened in 2014. We have the foundations of a great team for years to come we can’t just throw money at it like some others can. There was a lot to be pleased about - not many teams that have gone down by 14 points have come back against Bristol
Onwards and upwards
I would agree with everything you said - except for one, very important part - "The logic behind making the change at the time was pretty sound".
That I heartily disagree with. And that is the root, certainly of my annoyance. Until that point, we were managing our control. And my own view was that Jimmy was playing very well indeed.
No-one is able to tell what might have happened had things remained as they were.
But as the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 15:06
The more I think about it the less it fits what I understand as Boyd's mentality as well. There are certainly those players who are seen as ideal to come on and close a game out and someone with a big boot helps as they can kick long range penalties to stretch the lead, clear well from your own 22 and generally push the opposition back, making them play from deep. But that isn't really his philosophy as far as I can see it, yes he's undoubtedly adapted slightly to the prem/NH rugby but not sure that fits.
That aside I'm inclined to agree, if a player isn't injured or running on empty and is playing well generally I'd keep them on, especially in a key tactical position. The exception would be to give bench players some minutes if a game is out of sight which I don't think anyone thought it was on Sunday.
It would definitely help to have some Wandies games to help keep eveyone match fit and bring players back from injury, maybe in their absense short term loans may help.
That aside I'm inclined to agree, if a player isn't injured or running on empty and is playing well generally I'd keep them on, especially in a key tactical position. The exception would be to give bench players some minutes if a game is out of sight which I don't think anyone thought it was on Sunday.
It would definitely help to have some Wandies games to help keep eveyone match fit and bring players back from injury, maybe in their absense short term loans may help.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 17:23
24 hours on from full-time and it still feels frustrating, Boyd and co must be kicking themselves, the tactical switch was a costly error, and whilst saying Mallinder is mentally weak is unjust (considering what he has been for), the coaches made that tactical decision and Mallinder would have been aware of why he was coming on.
Let's compare Mallinder's performance (age 24) with his Bristol counterpart, Sam Bedlow (age 25). Bedlow came on, made an impact and nailed a touchline conversion. Unfortunately Mallinder made a few errors, which were compounded by the team, and that ultimately led to our demise. As a professional player, I'm sure he is fully aware of what is expected of him as a 'finished' and yesterday he didn't execute to the level required. Posters on this forum seem to think that Mallinder is a young guy, just making his way in game, but if he hadn't had injuries, at the age of 24 he could be getting towards 130-140 apps for the Saints already. Alas, he has managed 58 starts and a further 24 from the bench.
For what it's worth, I think Mallinder can be a good player with a run of games, but for him to get that at Saints currently, there is no denying that the form of the team would be weakened. To get a consistent run of games, assuming he plays 15,11/14 or 10, he will have to replace Freeman, Furbank, Proctor, Sleightolme and Grayson or Biggar. Within that list there are some superb home grown academy lads who we all love, plus a NZ international and the favourite for the Lion's 10 shirt. Is he going to usurp any of those mentioned? Personally, I'm not sure and a fresh start at a new club could be what he needs entirely. I don't think Saints would be weakened if he moved on, and it maybe the best for his career in a fresh environment
Let's compare Mallinder's performance (age 24) with his Bristol counterpart, Sam Bedlow (age 25). Bedlow came on, made an impact and nailed a touchline conversion. Unfortunately Mallinder made a few errors, which were compounded by the team, and that ultimately led to our demise. As a professional player, I'm sure he is fully aware of what is expected of him as a 'finished' and yesterday he didn't execute to the level required. Posters on this forum seem to think that Mallinder is a young guy, just making his way in game, but if he hadn't had injuries, at the age of 24 he could be getting towards 130-140 apps for the Saints already. Alas, he has managed 58 starts and a further 24 from the bench.
For what it's worth, I think Mallinder can be a good player with a run of games, but for him to get that at Saints currently, there is no denying that the form of the team would be weakened. To get a consistent run of games, assuming he plays 15,11/14 or 10, he will have to replace Freeman, Furbank, Proctor, Sleightolme and Grayson or Biggar. Within that list there are some superb home grown academy lads who we all love, plus a NZ international and the favourite for the Lion's 10 shirt. Is he going to usurp any of those mentioned? Personally, I'm not sure and a fresh start at a new club could be what he needs entirely. I don't think Saints would be weakened if he moved on, and it maybe the best for his career in a fresh environment
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 19:56
Watching parts of the game back, it's so clear that we missed enough opportunities and gifted Bristol their last try (which had absolutely nothing to do with HM). We seem to switch off defensively at crucial times, and with reflection I'm not sure the HM sub was necessarily the turning point (although I did yesterday).
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: 195Rich (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 21:02
Quote:TunbridgeSaint
24 hours on from full-time and it still feels frustrating, Boyd and co must be kicking themselves, the tactical switch was a costly error, and whilst saying Mallinder is mentally weak is unjust (considering what he has been for), the coaches made that tactical decision and Mallinder would have been aware of why he was coming on.
Let's compare Mallinder's performance (age 24) with his Bristol counterpart, Sam Bedlow (age 25). Bedlow came on, made an impact and nailed a touchline conversion. Unfortunately Mallinder made a few errors, which were compounded by the team, and that ultimately led to our demise. As a professional player, I'm sure he is fully aware of what is expected of him as a 'finished' and yesterday he didn't execute to the level required. Posters on this forum seem to think that Mallinder is a young guy, just making his way in game, but if he hadn't had injuries, at the age of 24 he could be getting towards 130-140 apps for the Saints already. Alas, he has managed 58 starts and a further 24 from the bench.
For what it's worth, I think Mallinder can be a good player with a run of games, but for him to get that at Saints currently, there is no denying that the form of the team would be weakened. To get a consistent run of games, assuming he plays 15,11/14 or 10, he will have to replace Freeman, Furbank, Proctor, Sleightolme and Grayson or Biggar. Within that list there are some superb home grown academy lads who we all love, plus a NZ international and the favourite for the Lion's 10 shirt. Is he going to usurp any of those mentioned? Personally, I'm not sure and a fresh start at a new club could be what he needs entirely. I don't think Saints would be weakened if he moved on, and it maybe the best for his career in a fresh environment
Short memories: A match fit Harry brings us something that no-one else does in our current squad. Don't believe me watch this:
[duckduckgo.com]
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 21:24
Those highlights show just what a top player Harry is and dispels any myths about him not being premiership standard.
Look forward to seeing him back to his best and right now just glad he's staying injury free.
Look forward to seeing him back to his best and right now just glad he's staying injury free.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: 195Rich (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 21:36
Quote:StBuckby
2 overthrown lineouts have cost us. One was deep in their 22 and the other led to the Purdy try. Don’t try to be clever, just keep lineouts relatively simple.
Just watched it again - Harry might have had a bad 15 minutes but the lineout has had a terrible 2 years. Why we have to complicate things I just don't know. We know the throwers are shaky so throw to 4 or even 2 on the 5 metre line - make sure we secure the ball then at least we have a chance to score! The team expends so much energy to get into that position and the turn over is so predictable. On the odd occasion we have secured our lineout on the 5m the drive has been excellent but we very rarely win our own lineout in that position.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: TunbridgeSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 22:58
Yep, he has scored some good tries, but as i said, how can we get him back to those levels without him getting a run of games?
And for me, to get those run of games at saints, he’d currently weaken the side as I believe Furbank, Freeman, Sleightholme are playing at a higher standard, and would develop further over the same runs of games.
As other posters have suggested, out on loan at Bedford where he would be a star player might not be a bad move for a few months
And for me, to get those run of games at saints, he’d currently weaken the side as I believe Furbank, Freeman, Sleightholme are playing at a higher standard, and would develop further over the same runs of games.
As other posters have suggested, out on loan at Bedford where he would be a star player might not be a bad move for a few months
Quote:195RichQuote:TunbridgeSaint
24 hours on from full-time and it still feels frustrating, Boyd and co must be kicking themselves, the tactical switch was a costly error, and whilst saying Mallinder is mentally weak is unjust (considering what he has been for), the coaches made that tactical decision and Mallinder would have been aware of why he was coming on.
Let's compare Mallinder's performance (age 24) with his Bristol counterpart, Sam Bedlow (age 25). Bedlow came on, made an impact and nailed a touchline conversion. Unfortunately Mallinder made a few errors, which were compounded by the team, and that ultimately led to our demise. As a professional player, I'm sure he is fully aware of what is expected of him as a 'finished' and yesterday he didn't execute to the level required. Posters on this forum seem to think that Mallinder is a young guy, just making his way in game, but if he hadn't had injuries, at the age of 24 he could be getting towards 130-140 apps for the Saints already. Alas, he has managed 58 starts and a further 24 from the bench.
For what it's worth, I think Mallinder can be a good player with a run of games, but for him to get that at Saints currently, there is no denying that the form of the team would be weakened. To get a consistent run of games, assuming he plays 15,11/14 or 10, he will have to replace Freeman, Furbank, Proctor, Sleightolme and Grayson or Biggar. Within that list there are some superb home grown academy lads who we all love, plus a NZ international and the favourite for the Lion's 10 shirt. Is he going to usurp any of those mentioned? Personally, I'm not sure and a fresh start at a new club could be what he needs entirely. I don't think Saints would be weakened if he moved on, and it maybe the best for his career in a fresh environment
Short memories: A match fit Harry brings us something that no-one else does in our current squad. Don't believe me watch this:
[duckduckgo.com]
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Brewster345 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/03/2021 23:27
Quote:And yesterday won't have helped. Grayson playing well again and still gets yanked off for a favourite son who is out of form.saint krige
I think there's a little tension between Boyd and Grayson and I think Boyd is a fair enough person for it to be worthy.
I have no idea if it's true, but I was told that Grayson's professionalism was questioned in recent months, more lifestyle choices from what was indicted as opposed to out and out bad attitude.
Who knows, but I think HM holds more respect with the coaching staff and wider squad.
Someone made a great point about no Wanderers games being a killer. Could send HM to Bedford to get him time, but the coaches should know if that would affect his confidence as seeing it as a demotion.
Also, the highlights of Harry's tries don't show me anything truly unique that we don't already have at the club. But the hope is he can still develop into that.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 00:11
IMHO Harry weighs too much for a fullback and needs to lose weight or move to a position better suited to his bulk. I'm struggling to think of another top flight fullback who weighs over 17 stone?
Harry has wonderful ball-handling and space creating ability. Those are his highlights I remember most before his run of injuries rather than him being an amazing try-scorer. He was also playing most of his rugby at centre and flyhalf when he got called up for the England tour to Argentina on the back of a string of impressive performances.
Harry isn't setting the world alight but he's a player that can cover fly half, centre, fullback, wing and is a place kicker which is incredibly useful to have on your bench. If you take away his 2 place kick misses his only field of play error was kicking the ball out on the full.
Harry has wonderful ball-handling and space creating ability. Those are his highlights I remember most before his run of injuries rather than him being an amazing try-scorer. He was also playing most of his rugby at centre and flyhalf when he got called up for the England tour to Argentina on the back of a string of impressive performances.
Harry isn't setting the world alight but he's a player that can cover fly half, centre, fullback, wing and is a place kicker which is incredibly useful to have on your bench. If you take away his 2 place kick misses his only field of play error was kicking the ball out on the full.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: StBuckby (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 01:01
I think you are getting close to solutions there Maul. Harry had a late growth spurt, he was a playmaker his whole youth rugby... just happens to be big. The problem is that the playmaking stuff meant he isn't a physical rugby player compared to others - imagine Piers mindset with Harry's body. Sometimes its within people (like Tei and Ludlam) or it isn't (like Hutch, Big T and Harry). That doesn't mean they can't push themselves or won't put their body on the line, their commitment isn't questioned. But it does not come naturally and the injuries won't have helped. He has probably bulked up to help with the physical side but unless he has found some Hulk rage, he won't be a dominating centre. As you say, some agility may have been lost with the weight gain. So its kind of hard to see where he fits in...
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 07:51
This is all becoming rather silly, and not a little tedious.
To bang on about HM's size is a joke, given that rugby players the world over are changing shape. Significantly.
Nayaravoro is +20kgs and the same height. He's a winger. We don't have any data on his acceleration and sprint capabilities, but I would guess they're not far off Harry's. Is he too big?
Harry is still working his way back from what could still turn out to be a career ending injury, and yet we bang on about how "poorly" he played. How "big" he is. Blah, blah.
I am moved to ask what of this conversation would really take place in our notional pub bar where we are supposed to self-moderate our comments?
To bang on about HM's size is a joke, given that rugby players the world over are changing shape. Significantly.
Nayaravoro is +20kgs and the same height. He's a winger. We don't have any data on his acceleration and sprint capabilities, but I would guess they're not far off Harry's. Is he too big?
Harry is still working his way back from what could still turn out to be a career ending injury, and yet we bang on about how "poorly" he played. How "big" he is. Blah, blah.
I am moved to ask what of this conversation would really take place in our notional pub bar where we are supposed to self-moderate our comments?
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 08:48
Deleted
It will create more friction
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:23:09:19:17 by Deesaint.
It will create more friction
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:23:09:19:17 by Deesaint.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Awaywin (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 08:58
Decision making has to be question. The substitution, the goal kicker and the selection over the Six Nations.
The substitution. If it ain't broke don't fix it. It was working why change it.
The goal kicker. Francis has been kicking ok in league games shouldn't it have defaulted to him.
The selection. Furbank has been playing 10 and keeping Grayson out of the matchday squad. If you take the 10 off for a utility back are you not better off putting Furbank at 10?
I know a lot of this has been discussed on this mammoth thread. In a round about way what I am getting at is knowing your players and your best team. I don't think the coaches know this, which is a worry. I feel sorry for Harry, he has talent but I don't know if it will ever be realised as I don't see where he nails down a spot in this team or squad. He either has to move on and commit to a position or endure a frustrating career with a decent highlights reel but a lot of frustration along the way.
The substitution. If it ain't broke don't fix it. It was working why change it.
The goal kicker. Francis has been kicking ok in league games shouldn't it have defaulted to him.
The selection. Furbank has been playing 10 and keeping Grayson out of the matchday squad. If you take the 10 off for a utility back are you not better off putting Furbank at 10?
I know a lot of this has been discussed on this mammoth thread. In a round about way what I am getting at is knowing your players and your best team. I don't think the coaches know this, which is a worry. I feel sorry for Harry, he has talent but I don't know if it will ever be realised as I don't see where he nails down a spot in this team or squad. He either has to move on and commit to a position or endure a frustrating career with a decent highlights reel but a lot of frustration along the way.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: saint krige (IP Logged)
Date: 23/03/2021 13:07
I think there's strong parallels between HM situation and the sobering one from Tom Stephenson.
Tom's 14/15 month lay off eventually led to him feeling suicidal and taking drugs, HM has had a similar (if not longer) layoff, the mental impact of this shouldn't be underestimated and for people to write him off after barely 2/3 months back and playing minutes from the bench is disappointing.
Tom's 14/15 month lay off eventually led to him feeling suicidal and taking drugs, HM has had a similar (if not longer) layoff, the mental impact of this shouldn't be underestimated and for people to write him off after barely 2/3 months back and playing minutes from the bench is disappointing.
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: NottsSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 24/03/2021 11:48
I have seen great things from Harry, he has shown he can read a game, and have the ability to glide into space seemingly having all the time in the world on the ball.
That is something special.
If he can get himself back to that place, and on form then he can be a real asset to virtually any team.
He need a run of games, building of confidence and to establish himself, that, IMO starts with picking a place and playing there.
Its going to be a much harder job if he continues to chop and change and plug gaps.
Difficult in the current climate isn't it.
He would have to displace;
Biggs/Grayson/Furbs
Dingers/Proctor/Huch/Francis
Freeman/Furbs
Ollie/T/Collins
etc etc
Whats the answer...
We can afford to play him back into form this year, so should.
Not sure his cameo last weekend would have helped though.
He will either make it, and displace someone, or wont.
Cant judge him on the last few games though imo
That is something special.
If he can get himself back to that place, and on form then he can be a real asset to virtually any team.
He need a run of games, building of confidence and to establish himself, that, IMO starts with picking a place and playing there.
Its going to be a much harder job if he continues to chop and change and plug gaps.
Difficult in the current climate isn't it.
He would have to displace;
Biggs/Grayson/Furbs
Dingers/Proctor/Huch/Francis
Freeman/Furbs
Ollie/T/Collins
etc etc
Whats the answer...
We can afford to play him back into form this year, so should.
Not sure his cameo last weekend would have helped though.
He will either make it, and displace someone, or wont.
Cant judge him on the last few games though imo
Re: Match Thread Saints v Bristol - Teams Up
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 24/03/2021 15:30
Harry should be picked to start at Full Back on Saturday.
Give George a break but only a partial one. Have him on the bench.
Start Jimmy at Fly Half. Have Dan on the bench - or give him the weekend off completely. I am not bothered about who sits on the bench but I want Jimmy to start.
I would like to see Ollie play alongside Dingwall and Hutchinson. Other wing? Big T.
Tom James to start at Sh with Alex on the bench
Forwards - sort it out between yourselves!!
Give George a break but only a partial one. Have him on the bench.
Start Jimmy at Fly Half. Have Dan on the bench - or give him the weekend off completely. I am not bothered about who sits on the bench but I want Jimmy to start.
I would like to see Ollie play alongside Dingwall and Hutchinson. Other wing? Big T.
Tom James to start at Sh with Alex on the bench
Forwards - sort it out between yourselves!!
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