Saints v Wasps Match Thread - Teams Up

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:04:09:11:05 by Saint Ted.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS vs WASPS
Gallagher Premiership, Round 20
Saturday 29 May 2021
Franklin’s Gardens
Kick-off: 4.30pm

15 Tommy Freeman
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Matt Proctor
12 Fraser Dingwall
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro
10 Dan Biggar
9 Tom James

1 Alex Waller (co-capt)
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Dave Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Lewis Ludlam (co-capt)
8 Tom Wood

Replacements:
16 Mikey Haywood
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Moon
20 Alex Coles
21 Connor Tupai
22 Piers Francis
23 Rory Hutchinson

Not available due to injury:
Owen Franks (foot), George Furbank (calf), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Nick Isiekwe (pectoral), and Alex Mitchell (ankle).



love that back line

Courtney is back! Massive pack...

Wasps (First-team appearances)

15 Charlie Atkinson (15)

14 Zach Kibirige (46)

13 Paolo Odogwu (22)

12 Michael Le Bourgeois (56)

11 Josh Bassett (147)

10 Jacob Umaga (47)

9 Dan Robson (134)

1 Tom West (52)

2 Gabriel Oghre (43)

3 Biyi Alo (17)

4 Will Rowlands (110)

5 James Gaskell (138)

6 Brad Shields (50) (c)

7 Thomas Young (138)

8 Tom Willis (38)



Replacements

16 Tom Cruse (96)

17 Simon McIntyre (181)

18 Jeff Toomaga-Allen (42)

19 Tim Cardall (27)

20 Sione Vailanu (29)

21 Ben Vellacott (18)

22 Jimmy Gopperth (125)

23 Rob Miller (123)

I like the look of that side but the Wasps team is also strong, fingers crossed for a good game.

Adendorff isn't on the injured list so I wonder whether playing Woody at 8 is because he is off? Although Teimana isn't on either list too? The only logical conclusion is that the coaches have been reading some of our musings on here about having more lineout options.....

Fekitoa and Gopperth are big losses for them, on closer inspection they actually look quite weak defensively in the backs which could bode well.

Their back row will be a nuisance, as always! The breakdown will be important.

Great to see Courtney back. Dingwall at 12 will be interesting?

Happy that we haven't gone for too much mix n' match. Wasps backline looks good, hopefully will be a good game!

Looks good. Interesting to see Dingers at 12, and pleased to see us trying it. Lawes and Biggar back is a big boost.

Top 4 may be gone but really looking forward to being back at the Gardens tomorrow. Good forecast and really hope we see the team revert to the exciting rugby they had been playing up until May.
Regardless, lets raise the roof tomorrow - 2000 supporters in Dec did a fairly good job. COYS!!!

Quote:

TommySaint
Fekitoa and Gopperth are big losses for them, on closer inspection they actually look quite weak defensively in the backs which could bode well.
Their back row will be a nuisance, as always! The breakdown will be important.

Malakai is injured but Gopps is on the bench.

“This machine kills fascists”
Woody Guthrie's guitar.

Toops jnr on the bench!

Could be my dodgy memory but didn't Dingwall play more 12 when he first broke though? I think he's well suited there, not a big guy in the grand scheme of things but defensively solid and intelligent.

Interesting to see Manny on the bench instead of Auterac.
Can anyone tell me how he has been doing on loan at Bedford please?

Interesting, no Tei. Dingers and Proctor in the centres could be an amazing spectacle and a pairing I've been wanting to see for some time. Even though Adendorf is off I'd have him at 8 one last time.

Quite an interesting selection both sides

Really pleased to see Manny getting a chance. Didn’t let us down when thrust into the fray when all the other no 1’s were broken so some game time without that pressure will be good for him and who knows. He could be the next Alex Waller.

I like the look of that backline. Dingers name amongst the starters always calms my nerves. Proctor and he look an exciting combination.

Great to see Courtney back. Also nice to see Manny on the bench. Hopefully this is a sign of his progression. We could do with another loosehead challenging next year.

Given the last few weeks though, god knows what we're going to get?!? Could be great. Could be awful! Or anywhere in between?!?

At the risk of jinxing it my hopes are high for the final few games, at the moment we are a side capable of great things but not when the pressure is on. Now it is off I suspect they'll play better albeit too late.

Of course it does help having big Courts back!

We could do with another loosehead challenging next year.

And we should have Danny Hobbs A back sooner than later and he was really showing good form before getting injured.

That's true about Danny. He was playing very well before his injury.

Yea! Come on Dingers!

Probably best defensive centre partnership ( arguably with Piers at 12 )
Back 3 could be very dangerous if they can work together

Come on Saints
Last few games
Let’s end the season on a high

That’s the spirit Dee... let’s bounce into a break then pre season which some fresh faces and an exciting 21/22 season

Should be a great game. It's a massive long shot but if Quins lose all their games and with no pressure on we win all ours, including Exeter...!

Quote:

Saintfanh
Should be a great game. It's a massive long shot but if Quins lose all their games and with no pressure on we win all ours, including Exeter...!

I would say a bit of a pipe dream but one area we do win is the pitch, it is in amazing condition and should allow for some great rugby this afternoon.

Change on the bench - Hutch out, Grayson in.

Mayhem Maybank, I didn't realise he was still around!

1st half a bit of a mixed bag. Some really good stuff (Freeman’s break a highlight, shame we couldn’t convert).

Impressed with the referee but don’t think we should be testing his patience much more.

Pretty frustrating 1st half. Some good attacking play but poor defence at times.

Getting quite tired of how inaccurate we can be in the red zone.

Tom James very slow to get the ball away. Biggar‘s opening kick to the corner was class.

Some good glimpses from Saints.

Freeman should be starting 15.
Love Biggar's commitment, but he should've shut up regarding the Wasps pen - we need a captain to set the tone and tell him to drop it now.

Impressed with the referee, seems very much in control whilst being engaging.

Although I think Boyd has done a reasonable job, part of me thinks it would just be easier if this was his last season. We already know he's unlikely to be around after next season...

We've got to sort our lineout.

We would be ahead if our lineout worked. Solid work by Freeman, Sleightholme, Wood and Lawes!

Very much anyone's game, Wasps are up for it

Was expecting more laughs from Matt Ferguson’s interview

Quote:

Saint Kris
Was expecting more laughs from Matt Ferguson’s interview

Very rare for those with Matt.

We need more composure and control
Just have to believe in ourselves

It seems if we haven’t made 50 meters or scored after a few phases we seem lost

We do need a big 12
Just to shake things up
And make yards when we go side to side

Quote:

saint krige
Although I think Boyd has done a reasonable job, part of me thinks it would just be easier if this was his last season. We already know he's unlikely to be around after next season...

Agree. Boyd been the transition from JM to whomever is next. Brought up the kids and got them game time. Now need a new direction.

So sick of listening to Healeys biased comments every time he commentates on a match involving Saints. Same as when he commentated on a Tigers match. Must be better commentators out there who know what being unbiased is about!

Quote:

TheGent
We've got to sort our lineout.

Our biggest issue all season, we won’t be in any way successful without significant improvement in this area

I’m struggling to think of anyone close but Healey really is the worst pundit by a margin. Unfunny and routinely gets the ref calls completely wrong

His comment about Jon Sleightholme shouting knock on made me laugh😆

Good win in an entertaining game.

I don’t know why Healey doesn’t become a referee or TMO because he doesn’t act as a pundit he just re referees the game.

And his last comment yet again shown he is totally biased either that if stupid. Even seeing the replays he still goes on and on about a seat belt tackle when it’s shown his arm has a hand between the neck and ribbons arm. Get rid of him BT Sport.

Look guys I would agree being biased and I’ve wound him up before about it, but technically I can’t disagree with any of his views on the TMO


If I was a Wasps fan I would be spitting bloody at Graham Hughes’ amateurism


Shout out to Ribeye, massive effort

Austin bleats on a bit too much, but I don't find him bias against Saints. His points re the TMO were valid in fairness and I think he would've said the same had it been against the Saints.

Glad to get the win as it could have gone either way at one point. Some fantastic individual performances but collectively we still lack a killer instinct and are far too happy to concede - something I find difficult with Boyds philosophy. But a win is a win and it is so good to have the crowd back, can't wait for a packed Friday night!

I find that Austin still has a negative edge when it comes to saints most likely carried over from his playing days and is extremely hard work to listen to.

Well played Saints from a Waspie. My views on Hughes will be contained to the DW board, as here is not the right place to put it as your team fully deserved their victory!

Hopefully see you in the same European tournament next year!

Can we give Wood another contract please? 10 years should do it, his fitness won't drop!

Lobbe retired when he was about 72 didn't he?

We won
Move on to next week

Looking forward to the new recruits next year

Quote:

chappers_saint
Can we give Wood another contract please? 10 years should do it, his fitness won't drop!
Lobbe retired when he was about 72 didn't he?

works for me!

Quote:

saint krige
Austin bleats on a bit too much, but I don't find him bias against Saints. His points re the TMO were valid in fairness and I think he would've said the same had it been against the Saints.

He’s not bias just routinely rubbish every week, he implied that both big T and Ribeye deserved cards.. to be fair he usually blurts on “CARD CARD” so the fact he didn’t we can be grateful. He’s just a little twerp and a poor pundit. Ben Kay was highlighting the backs moves during play so what on earth is he paid for

Healey provides serious competition to Phil Tufnell for the Village Idiot prize in British broadcasting - thank heavens for Ben Kay and our very own Daisy.

I do wish the refs would officiate without trying to be on first name terms with everyone " "use it please Dan" for example.

Quote:

Walks11

Quote:

saint krige
Austin bleats on a bit too much, but I don't find him bias against Saints. His points re the TMO were valid in fairness and I think he would've said the same had it been against the Saints.

He’s not bias just routinely rubbish every week, he implied that both big T and Ribeye deserved cards.. to be fair he usually blurts on “CARD CARD” so the fact he didn’t we can be grateful. He’s just a little twerp and a poor pundit. Ben Kay was highlighting the backs moves during play so what on earth is he paid for

Yeah, I can't disagree much with that. His punditry can be OK, but he's never really that insightful. Always liked Greenwood on SS, BT seem to be lacking with Ugo, Healy and Lol.

Two real moments of the game for me, both involving Ollie Sleightholme.

First his chase back to tackle Josh Bassett on a scoring run after Bassett intercepted the ball. How many times do we see those chases fail or the chaser tackling thin air? Yet Bassett was hauled down.

And then his length-of-the-field solo try, disallowed only for a knock on at the start of the move. But he outpaced the chasers behind him and outmuscled (momentum helping hugely, but F=mv and the v was definitely on his side....) the two with head starts that reached him at the try line.

Wonder what he would be doing this summer if he were Welsh rather than English....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:20:49:38 by Matthew.

I think Ollie, Tom James and Freeman did themselves no harm in front of Eddie Jones, wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are included this summer.

Quote:

saint krige
I think Ollie, Tom James and Freeman did themselves no harm in front of Eddie Jones, wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are included this summer.

Agreed on Ollie and Tommy. Think Tom may not quite have the pace for int but who knows with Eddie.

All 3 were outstanding today.

If I'm honest, I have no problem with Healey.
What he does do quite well is highlight inconsistencies.

Reading other boards (which I recommend) people are always convinced refs and/or pundits are biased against them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:21:17:30 by shendy.

Quote:

saint krige
I think Ollie, Tom James and Freeman did themselves no harm in front of Eddie Jones, wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are included this summer.

I think Tom James is far too slow in getting the ball away to be a first choice prem starter let alone an international. Having said that he did put through two of three lovely chip kicks for territory.

Dunno about that. Tom James has had a couple of rough performances of late but today he really put in a shift IMO.

Good game, but only because I enjoy the ones that go down to the wire the most. A different gust of wind today and Wasps would have easily been 14 points up by 60 minutes, maybe even half time. I am sure they are rueing their missed chances as we have done in games gone by. I am glad they got the bonus point - they deserve a place in top flight Europe next year based on this season.

One thing I will say - what an incredible game Taqele had today, a real turn around. He was dangerous every time he had the ball with a layer of confidence we haven't seen in a while, and he put in a couple of thumping tackles to boot. Long may it continue.

Quote:

TommySaint
Look guys I would agree being biased and I’ve wound him up before about it, but technically I can’t disagree with any of his views on the TMO

If I was a Wasps fan I would be spitting bloody at Graham Hughes’ amateurism

I am and.... Oh yes! Buzzer

Shout out to Ribeye, massive effort

Got to play for England this summer. Well done though Saints. Very frustrated that we couldn’t convert our chances!

I'm not a huge fan of how the TMO is currently implemented, it's far from ideal in my opinion and needs to be re-thought.

"Clark's going. He's in big trouble. Clark's kneed him in the face twice"
Austin Healey May 2014.
Just one of many examples to illustrate that he is incapable of keeping his emotions in check as a pundit / co commentator and frankly at times just makes things up to suit his viewpoint (I agree with many of his points today). It's just so obvious that he is not impartial.
Very poor in my opinion.

I'm a great believer in judging on the performance rather than the result.

I'll gladly take the win but sadly, that was a bang average performance. The lineout shows no signs of improving. Far too many times a Wasp broke a tackle and then another and then another. Their kickers were all too often not pressurised. We were sloppy and kept squandering possession cheaply in their 22.

Thankfully among the mediocrity the commitment and desire of certain players shone through like Ribbans with his incredible holding onto the ball after his lifters dropped him and Sleightholme chasing down Bassett. Wood then getting back to get a jackalling penalty.

It was also fantastic to see fans back at the Gardens.

Quote:

shiversaint
Dunno about that. Tom James has had a couple of rough performances of late but today he really put in a shift IMO.
Good game, but only because I enjoy the ones that go down to the wire the most. A different gust of wind today and Wasps would have easily been 14 points up by 60 minutes, maybe even half time. I am sure they are rueing their missed chances as we have done in games gone by. I am glad they got the bonus point - they deserve a place in top flight Europe next year based on this season.

One thing I will say - what an incredible game Taqele had today, a real turn around. He was dangerous every time he had the ball with a layer of confidence we haven't seen in a while, and he put in a couple of thumping tackles to boot. Long may it continue.

I thought Big T made a lot more defensive effort than previously, working hard to get back when they kicked behind us.

Quote:

Sans Culottes

Quote:

saint krige
I think Ollie, Tom James and Freeman did themselves no harm in front of Eddie Jones, wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are included this summer.

I think Tom James is far too slow in getting the ball away to be a first choice prem starter let alone an international. Having said that he did put through two of three lovely chip kicks for territory.

Spot on.

James has begun to take a step into his pass, something I don't remember him doing earlier. Slows him down significantly. But his pitch management was much better than recent games.

Ollie and Tommy could well argue a place to North America. Neither would let down the sides they played in.

Do we know how close we were to signing Healy!

My thoughts

Courtney, wow, welcome back! 5 turnovers, 4 carries, 4 gain line broken!

Ribbans, has to start for England in the Summer, with both starters with Lions and I think Hills place is there to be taken, Ribbans is Mr Consistant, he is just a more aggressive, ball carrying version of Daisy and that extra should get him internarional recognition

Sleight home and Tom my both did themselves no harm infront of Jones, especially when u look at current selection, all getting on a bit?

Also think Hill could also get a look in, his work rate is immense

Sorry, I can’t see James going , his game is improving, as in his decision making, when he first started for us, think he found the speed of the game far quicker than expected, was then just get it out fast and now he is seeing the game better and able make better decisions, had some good carries today in. Token field, but want my 9 to be doing them from breakdowns...

For me, it’s why the hell hasn’t Robson been starting for England? Everything WASPs did came through him, he had a great game yesterday.

Saw the article in The Telegraph reporting their belief Biggar could be cited for a high tackle or forearm. I really don't remember anything, but they clearly believe it was blatant. They indicate it was at the end of the match, but I thought Biggar was off by then. Does anyone know when it happened? I want to go back and see what was there.

Quote:

Saint Gordo
Saw the article in The Telegraph reporting their belief Biggar could be cited for a high tackle or forearm. I really don't remember anything, but they clearly believe it was blatant. They indicate it was at the end of the match, but I thought Biggar was off by then. Does anyone know when it happened? I want to go back and see what was there.

It was just before he was subbed so probably around the 70 minute mark. Shouldn’t be hard to find, it got replayed a lot, was an unnecessary clear out on Umaga, does make marginal head contact, should be nothing to worry about but have seen similar result in a ban. Who knows these days.

Thanks. Just checked it. Forearm did make contact with Umaga's head. Not hard, but did make some contact. Agree should be no issue, but if the officiating is going to be iron clad with their interpretation, then Dan might have an issue.

Just re-watched the last 10 mins and the game management when we were 10 points clear captures our wider leadership and game management issues.

With 4 mins to go we are trying one up forward runners just inside our half when we should be controlling territory and pinning them back into one of their corners. Coles knocks the ball on in contact. Wasps get the ball back.

Wasps do an aimless middle of the pitch kick and Freeman kicks it out on the full (he needs to work on his kicking as he did 3 poor kicks yesterday) giving Wasps the lineout on our 22.

From the lineout, Big T does a high tackle which gives Wasps the lineout on the 5m line from which they score.

We let them score a push over try allowing time for a re-start. In that situation you give away a yellow to stop a try illegally to prevent any chance of a re-start in time. When the Wasps player scores Saints players should have piled in to prevent Wasps picking up the ball quickly so they couldn't kick for goal until after the 80 mins.

I was lucky enough to be at Sale v Bristol and Quins v Bath this weekend. We are a way off at least three of those sides at the moment.

With an on rushing Wasps defensive line I don’t think we once chipped or grubbered the ball past their advancing line to put doubt in their minds about quickly advancing all the time.

We had a try that was a knock on and both Biggar and Big T did clear outs and tackles that a non supporting Saints TMO could have got quite excited about.

Wasps are competing to be just in the top 8, yet in front of a home crowd, sun on our backs and firm ground under our feet, we just about squeezed out a win.

If you want ruthless look at Sale and if you want to be entertained then Quins and Bristol play a better version of our attacking game.

I agree Paul Hill has come on immensely with his scrummaging- his work rate and stamina are awesome and he carries like a possessed no8 👍 Freeman and Ollie have potentially saved us a lot of money in area's that need improving and both showing Eddie what they can do. Ribeye has stepped up another level this season and had another good game infront of Eddie.
We have a very capable squad and have signed well for next season- if we get the cohesion right with our new guys then a top 4 finish and a good run in the Heineken cup is a good aim for us 😇

Critical thinking is great if you are trying to improveas a player, coach or team, as a fan I am just going to enjoy my weekend after a win against a massive Wasps side, and look forward to a couple of ball carrying signings next year.

The lineout failings intrigue me as I've always felt that with Tom and Courtney in the side we should have no problems so I guess the issue is with "calling" and the accuracy of throwing in. It was noticeable that when Mikey came on he took a long time to ensure he was content before launching the ball - and we appeared to be more secure. We could easily have lost the game because of this weakness and I would always prefer slow ball to no ball. I enjoyed the fact that there was not too much aerial bombardment with clever kicks to touch winning large territorial gains but I agree with the previous comment that we could have benefited from a few attempts to kick through the Wasps rush.

Quote:

Thrupp artist
The lineout failings intrigue me as I've always felt that with Tom and Courtney in the side we should have no problems so I guess the issue is with "calling" and the accuracy of throwing in. It was noticeable that when Mikey came on he took a long time to ensure he was content before launching the ball - and we appeared to be more secure. We could easily have lost the game because of this weakness and I would always prefer slow ball to no ball. I enjoyed the fact that there was not too much aerial bombardment with clever kicks to touch winning large territorial gains but I agree with the previous comment that we could have benefited from a few attempts to kick through the Wasps rush.

Good comments and I agree. There was something vaguely uncoordinated in the lineouts. I saw it the same as you - when Haywood came on he seemed much more deliberate with the throws. With Wood, Lawes, Ribbans we should really almost never lose a lineout.