Saints v Exeter Match Thread - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:04:09:09:08 by Saint Ted.

Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point!

Two struggling teams denuded by injuries and call-ups. Let’s hope CMK let’s the game flow……

Let’s hope James at 10 and George at 15 both perform well. Sam at 7!is forced but will be good to see how he goes.

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Saint Ted
Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point!

Same with me. Matavesi could be a decent club level 7. He has no probs at the breakdown and has a good motor. At least he is not throwing into the lineout.
Also hoping JG has a great game. really pulling for him.

Good luck to James, he needs to take this chance against a weakened Exeter and at home by the scruff of the neck. Very pleased indeed that the young props start again. Hoping Piers has an injury free run out and good luck to Wilkins at 8, could be an interesting option.

Well that's one of the most interesting selections I've seen:

A truly make-shift back row with Matavesi and a 6/2 bench to mitigate the risk as a result.

Iyogun seems to be the keeper of the loosehead shirt over Waller with his second start in a row.

Grayson at 10 and Furbank at 15 which will please the vocal Grayson supporters. Personally I prefer Furbank as a flyhalf over Grayson but it's the sensible choice with the players at our disposal.

Exeter appear seriously denuded so on paper this is a very winnable game for Saints. Appreciating games aren't played on paper!

COYS!!!

It hasn't been about Furbank v Grayson at FH. It's been about Furbank/Grayson being a better 15/10 combo than either Hutch/Furbank or Tualla/Furbank. I too prefer Furbank to Grayson at 10 long term but I would have played Grayson the last few weeks.

Anyway, no issues with this weeks selection. 2 heavily depleted teams - could go either way - hope it goes our way and JG is MOM.

I very much hope with Grayson at 10 we look to play in their half as much as possible and take the points whenever they are on offer

Solid basics

Let’s put the run from anywhere and kick to the corner on hold at least for this week
Pragmatism

One advantage of Furbank at 15 is he can revert to being a strike runner as well as second receiver.

I like Furbank at 10 because he challenges the other teams more than JG (at least that is how it seemed to me). But this season we have not had much attacking threat from deep. And when Hutch is back there the defensive part is a bit of a@#$%&shoot.

Seems Exeter board feel quietly confident

Bookies have Saints at 4/5
Exeter 7/2

Someone knows something

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Deesaint
Bookies have Saints at 4/5
Exeter 7/2

Someone knows something

If you can find Exeter at 7/2 you should jump all over it - you won't though - it will be about 5/4.

Wish I had when I looked at lunch time

Closing now but Saints still favorites

[www.oddschecker.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:25:17:16:50 by Deesaint.

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Saint Gordo

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Saint Ted
Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point!

Same with me. Matavesi could be a decent club level 7. He has no probs at the breakdown and has a good motor. At least he is not throwing into the lineout.
Also hoping JG has a great game. really pulling for him.

I believe Matavesi had the best line out record in the Premiership games last weekend.

Saw Ben Nutley in Harborough today, still looks fit, give him a call !

Glad to seem Grayson at 10. I think that his long passing is very good and I also think that Furbank is a better 15 than 10 so should be playing there all the time. Matavesi has played back row before so should be fine. His throwing stats last week were probably improved by the gales*. The side looks balanced but I fear that Saints won’t match Exeter in the physical stakes. I hope that I’m proved wrong.

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Brackleysaint

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Saint Gordo

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Saint Ted
Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point!

Same with me. Matavesi could be a decent club level 7. He has no probs at the breakdown and has a good motor. At least he is not throwing into the lineout.
Also hoping JG has a great game. really pulling for him.

I believe Matavesi had the best line out record in the Premiership games last weekend.

He’s our best hooker by some distance currently but still think we could with strengthening in that position

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Walks11

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Brackleysaint

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Saint Gordo

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Saint Ted
Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point!

Same with me. Matavesi could be a decent club level 7. He has no probs at the breakdown and has a good motor. At least he is not throwing into the lineout.
Also hoping JG has a great game. really pulling for him.

I believe Matavesi had the best line out record in the Premiership games last weekend.

He’s our best hooker by some distance currently but still think we could with strengthening in that position

I agree. A couple of years back I believed that Marshall would push on and be first choice, sadly I think that's no longer, he was never the same after his injury.

[quote Brackleysaint][quote Walks11][quote Brackleysaint][quote Saint Gordo][quote Saint Ted]Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point![/quote
. A couple of years back I believed that Marshall would push on and be first choice, sadly I think that's no longer, he was never the same after his injury.[/quote]

I think he got injured very early on in his time at Irish and that it was a long term injury

[quote Dragonboy][quote Brackleysaint][quote Walks11][quote Brackleysaint][quote Saint Gordo][quote Saint Ted]Well, with the surprise of seeing Grayson at 10 I completely missed Matavesi at 7, so I guess that will be this weeks big selection talking point![/quote
. A couple of years back I believed that Marshall would push on and be first choice, sadly I think that's no longer, he was never the same after his injury.[/quote]

I think he got injured very early on in his time at Irish and that it was a long term injury[/quote]

He suffered a significant injury back in 2020 if I remember correctly.

There’s a very long list of young talented rugby players that don’t ever make it due to injury. Sad indeed.

What is the point of CMK telling their scrum half to use it if he is going to then give them 10 secs from then to play it. Time he penalised that. Four times now he’s let it go

Dinger's break to set up the Collins try was exactly what England was missing yesterday....

Wow the young props have got them on toast

I think that must be the greatest Saints scrum ever

The whole game changed when the props were changed

3 scrum go backwards, Waller just gave away a penalty on the last one which creates a try, he is also hammered into touch by a winger. Really appalling output from a club captain.

poop

The difference is we missed our kicks, and a clueless yellow card!!

We’ve forgotten how to manage a game to a victory!

Grayson did a lot of good things today, but unforgivable to miss a conversion in front of the posts. Simply not professional!

That’s the season over for us, and hope we have new recruits on the way. Still not physical enough upfront!

No comment until tomorrow!

A nice middle of the table club with zero ambition who can occasionally play some nice rugby. I will still enjoy the odd trip to the gardens but can’t justify renewing my season ticket

Well, we showed some grit, iyogun very good. We looked poor once the front row changed. Saw again the best and worst of Mitchell. BT sports love him but his speed to the ruck cost us two pens in the second half (pundits saying he needed replacing) and a bit of a mindless card seemed to seal that for exeter. Happens all too regularly it seems. Game management in second half also seemed a miss.

Time for a change, let's relieve Mr Boyd of his duties now now and send a message to the players that they are playing for their futures for the remainder of the season and to impress the 'new' coaches - don't perform well then you're not getting much game time next season, give them something to play for.

Must be worth a try as clearly the 'nice' approach of trying hard and taking the learns doesn't work. Gloucester next week will be a massacre on current form

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Berkshire-Saint
A nice middle of the table club with zero ambition who can occasionally play some nice rugby. I will still enjoy the odd trip to the gardens but can’t justify renewing my season ticket

Totally agree. The appointment of the existing coaches next season, means I struggle to justify a season ticket but odd games will be a good day out. Expected us to finish 7th to 9th so no surprises.

Front row done well until changed. Waller has to go imo but probably has another year.

This was an Exeter C team.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:27:15:04:01 by Rugbyman01.

Saints making a habit of losing at home . Wasps will win here next. We may beat the falcons on last game

So close, again. Lots of really good stuff, illustrated by how positive BT commentary was of both teams. Agree that prop replacements just aren't good enough and was a turning point alongside Mitchell yellow card. He was exceptional at times today but there's been a few like that recently and for such an important player and your scrum half you can't afford that.

Views on the penalty at the end?

Clearly wasn't why we lost it either way though - looking forward to having Lawes and Ludlum back.

On the positive Grayson had a good game and although as impressed as I've been by Furbank at fly half he was outstanding at full back today - definitely right selection until Freeman is back. Felt though we didn't quite have enough threat and physicality in the centre when Proctor went off. I love our centres but without Proctor and a unit like Big T on the wing we are overly reliant on the ball carrying of Ribbans and Augustus.

If Mitchell needed replacing because he was tired, that's not really on him, is it?

Fitness. We looked fantastic first 15 mins of 2nd half. Then were spent in attack and defence.

Madness having an all-running strategy if there isn't the fitness and conditioning to implement it.

Scrum looked great whilst Manny and Ehren were on.

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Saintfanh
So close, again. Lots of really good stuff, illustrated by how positive BT commentary was of both teams. Agree that prop replacements just aren't good enough and was a turning point alongside Mitchell yellow card. He was exceptional at times today but there's been a few like that recently and for such an important player and your scrum half you can't afford that.
Views on the penalty at the end?

Clearly wasn't why we lost it either way though - looking forward to having Lawes and Ludlum back.

On the positive Grayson had a good game and although as impressed as I've been by Furbank at fly half he was outstanding at full back today - definitely right selection until Freeman is back. Felt though we didn't quite have enough threat and physicality in the centre when Proctor went off. I love our centres but without Proctor and a unit like Big T on the wing we are overly reliant on the ball carrying of Ribbans and Augustus.

Thought the pen was just about the right call at the end. Couldn't really whinge as they had a good try chalked off. Furbank was decent and made some nice breaks, but picking holes, I think he missed hodge first up for his score and then dropped the ball in a key attacking position when 3 behind. Unfortunately those things really affected the game.

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herbie85

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Saintfanh
So close, again. Lots of really good stuff, illustrated by how positive BT commentary was of both teams. Agree that prop replacements just aren't good enough and was a turning point alongside Mitchell yellow card. He was exceptional at times today but there's been a few like that recently and for such an important player and your scrum half you can't afford that.
Views on the penalty at the end?

Clearly wasn't why we lost it either way though - looking forward to having Lawes and Ludlum back.

On the positive Grayson had a good game and although as impressed as I've been by Furbank at fly half he was outstanding at full back today - definitely right selection until Freeman is back. Felt though we didn't quite have enough threat and physicality in the centre when Proctor went off. I love our centres but without Proctor and a unit like Big T on the wing we are overly reliant on the ball carrying of Ribbans and Augustus.

Thought the pen was just about the right call at the end. Couldn't really whinge as they had a good try chalked off. Furbank was decent and made some nice breaks, but picking holes, I think he missed hodge first up for his score and then dropped the ball in a key attacking position when 3 behind. Unfortunately those things really affected the game.

Not to excuse the other stuff, but it was Collins who missed Hodge.

Healey saying Mitchell might be leaving. Which would explain why we've signed Callum Brayley. If Healey is right.

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Brewster345

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herbie85

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Saintfanh
So close, again. Lots of really good stuff, illustrated by how positive BT commentary was of both teams. Agree that prop replacements just aren't good enough and was a turning point alongside Mitchell yellow card. He was exceptional at times today but there's been a few like that recently and for such an important player and your scrum half you can't afford that.
Views on the penalty at the end?

Clearly wasn't why we lost it either way though - looking forward to having Lawes and Ludlum back.

On the positive Grayson had a good game and although as impressed as I've been by Furbank at fly half he was outstanding at full back today - definitely right selection until Freeman is back. Felt though we didn't quite have enough threat and physicality in the centre when Proctor went off. I love our centres but without Proctor and a unit like Big T on the wing we are overly reliant on the ball carrying of Ribbans and Augustus.

Thought the pen was just about the right call at the end. Couldn't really whinge as they had a good try chalked off. Furbank was decent and made some nice breaks, but picking holes, I think he missed hodge first up for his score and then dropped the ball in a key attacking position when 3 behind. Unfortunately those things really affected the game.

Not to excuse the other stuff, but it was Collins who missed Hodge.

Nice one ta for the correction, wasn't 100 percent. Collins very similar to the Mitchell dilemma mentioned above. Always offers something in attack, but you can almost guarantee will unfortunately cost you some points also.

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Berkshire-Saint
A nice middle of the table club with zero ambition who can occasionally play some nice rugby. I will still enjoy the odd trip to the gardens but can’t justify renewing my season ticket

As a SW London based Saint, I think I might do the same. Getting harder to justify the trip up and back, especially with the mediocrity in the squad.

herbie 👍



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:27:15:16:50 by Brewster345.

A bit of a strange game, we had thier scrum on toast in the first half and a number of good individual performances.

However ultimately we lost again at home against a team missing a whole host of top players and allowed them to score four tries , five if you include some appalling work from the ref and TMO.

We just are a poor side at the minute lots of good individuals but a poor side.

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Brewster345

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Berkshire-Saint
A nice middle of the table club with zero ambition who can occasionally play some nice rugby. I will still enjoy the odd trip to the gardens but can’t justify renewing my season ticket

As a SW London based Saint, I think I might do the same. Getting harder to justify the trip up and back, especially with the mediocrity in the squad.

herbie 👍

Absolutely this…+1

To all those stating at this early stage that they will not renew next season. You should sent a mail this week directly to John White and Mark Darbon with your reasoning.
I would hope that they may find some of the mails quite sobering.

Result was better than expected. 0 expectations of saints on the pitch at the moment.

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fleetg
To all those stating at this early stage that they will not renew next season. You should sent a mail this week directly to John White and Mark Darbon with your reasoning.
I would hope that they may find some of the mails quite sobering.

I'm not going to comment on the game until I've slept on it but this makes perfect sense.

Hit them in the pocket and tell them exactly why.

Good things:

- Manny and Painter
- Scrum in general
- Proctor
- Fly Half and Full back playing well
- Proctor
- Good start to second half

Bad things:

- Substitute the props when they were on top. Why? They didn't look gassed to me
- Tackling seemed completely optional today. Would love to know missed tackle stats... Mind you there were so many times we didn't even attempt a tackle let alone miss one.
- Mitchell. He makes mistakes when tired. He's making a habit of it know.
- Our ability to give away points with ease.
- Our ability to give away ground. Several times today they made such easy ground.

We should have won again.

We're not terrible. We're certainly not great.

It doesn't make me question my season ticket. I'm a saints fan after all - it comes with the territory! But understand why others would. It's a personal decision.

An entertaining game that of course we lost........at home.......again.

I echo everything said above. The Board need taking to task financially, much as it will damage the Club.

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Spockst
The whole game changed when the props were changed
3 scrum go backwards, Waller just gave away a penalty on the last one which creates a try, he is also hammered into touch by a winger. Really appalling output from a club captain.

+1

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TimperleySaint
G
- Tackling seemed completely optional today. Would love to know missed tackle stats... Mind you there were so many times we didn't even attempt a tackle let alone miss one.

Tackles Made: 140
Tackles Missed: 20
Tackle %: 79

Tackles Made By Player:
Sam Matavesi - 19 (1 missed)
Emmanuel Iyogun - 14
Alex Coles - 14
Mike Haywood - 14 (1 missed)
James Grayson - 11

Tackles Missed by Player:
Fraser Dingwall - 5
Alex Mitchell - 3
Matt Proctor - 3
Courtnall Skosan - 2

Interestingly apparently Waller and Hill only made 2 tackles between them after coming on in the 49th minute. Does that sound right?!?! The starting front row made 33 tackles and the replacements only 2...

Spoke to death about our short comings and failings for the past two and a bit years so onto Exeter.

A team struggling this season and one with many first choice players missing, I was impressed by how they played and the back 3 seeing plenty of ball in hand.

Exeter have come in for a lot of stick on this forum for being boring. I thought the made the game quite exciting. Thoughts?

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Saints Advocate

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TimperleySaint
G
- Tackling seemed completely optional today. Would love to know missed tackle stats... Mind you there were so many times we didn't even attempt a tackle let alone miss one.

Tackles Made: 140
Tackles Missed: 20
Tackle %: 79

Tackles Made By Player:
Sam Matavesi - 19 (1 missed)
Emmanuel Iyogun - 14
Alex Coles - 14
Mike Haywood - 14 (1 missed)
James Grayson - 11

Tackles Missed by Player:
Fraser Dingwall - 5
Alex Mitchell - 3
Matt Proctor - 3
Courtnall Skosan - 2

Interestingly apparently Waller and Hill only made 2 tackles between them after coming on in the 49th minute. Does that sound right?!?! The starting front row made 33 tackles and the replacements only 2...

And consider Exeter had pretty much all the ball in that time. Says it all, the passion and work rate seems to have evaporated from some players, the hunger just isn’t there.

Watched it on delay so a bit late to the party, could have gone either way, brilliant start to the second half and the game turned on the replacements at 50 minutes. You can look at it 2 ways, either ours were poor timing or theirs gave them an impact or it could be a combination of the 2. Withstanding that we don’t have all the information the timing of the prop change was odd given what happened immediately prior to this, if I was either Manny or Ehran and not injured I’d have been fuming. Ehran not necessarily the fittest maybe but Manny looked like he was still going strong so replacing both at that time seemed pre planned and not reflective of the state of the game. The end had a certain inevitability about it unfortunately, another game we should have won and shot ourselves in the foot. Mitch was very good until he ran out of gas, James should have been on a lot earlier.

Linking to the other thread on player rumours, perhaps we don’t need a superstar LH as we already have one. He was superb today. Thought it funny that Flats and Co were bigging up the Chiefs tight head only for him to get destroyed by Manny

Quite refreshing to see some thoughts about the ambition of the Club. Some time ago Matt Dawson said Saints were in effect ‘too nice’, a comfortable mid-table club that talks about ambition but does not back it up. The last two games have been quite entertaining but do you know what……I am getting very tired of seeing my Club being ‘plucky losers’.

Just a quickie about decision making. Last week, Furbank took a gamble with a last gasp penalty from the touch line in difficult conditions - fair play to the man for having a go but it was at the very least a debatable decision. This week, three points behind and a penalty was taken from almost on the half way line to tie the match up with about three minutes to go. Great kick from Piers but it wasn’t going to win the game, merely turn a lbp into a draw so net gain one point. The team need a win, especially at home and we all know that they are not going anywhere near top four. Probably, a question of ‘damned if you do damned if you don’t’ but the small margins are the ones that make the difference. Discuss !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:27:19:04:35 by Aberavon Wizard.

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Aberavon Wizard
Quite refreshing to see some thoughts about the ambition of the Club. Some time ago Matt Dawson said Saints were in effect ‘too nice’, a comfortable mid-table club that talks about ambition but does not back it up. The last two games have been quite entertaining but do you know what……I am getting very tired of seeing my Club being ‘plucky losers’. The Chairman and Board of Directors appear to be utterly silent - they should be pushing Northampton Rugby Football Club - appearances are of course deceptive but are some of them just there for the ride ?
Just a quickie about decision making. Last week, Furbank took a gamble with a last gasp penalty from the touch line in difficult conditions - fair play to the man for having a go but it was at the very least a debatable decision. This week, three points behind and a penalty was taken from almost on the half way line to tie the match up with about three minutes to go. Great kick from Piers but it wasn’t going to win the game, merely turn a lbp into a draw so net gain one point. The team need a win, especially at home and we all know that they are not going anywhere near top four. Probably, a question of ‘damned if you do damned if you don’t’ but the small margins are the ones that make the difference. Discuss !

ok I'm the one that's bitten, if thats what your aim was

If I was part of the playing group or management team id be pretty p'd off if the Chairman or Directors was making post game statements. They are not responsible for the day to day playing side the DoR is. the board put the infrastructure and funds in place for that person to do their job. IMO there is ample opportunity to quiz Darborn or whoever at the supporters forums, this really doesn't need to happen week in week out. Really not sure what you are after other than collective hand wringing exercise. We are at present are not a top 4 side and this is pretty much the thoughts of us all every week, nothing the board can do about that mid season other than sacking the DoR which is not going to happen given he's off in a few months anyway. What do you want, the Chairman to make a statement every time we lose to say "we aren't good enough"? as far as I know that happens at precisely no other sporting club

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Aberavon Wizard
Quite refreshing to see some thoughts about the ambition of the Club. Some time ago Matt Dawson said Saints were in effect ‘too nice’, a comfortable mid-table club that talks about ambition but does not back it up. The last two games have been quite entertaining but do you know what……I am getting very tired of seeing my Club being ‘plucky losers’. The Chairman and Board of Directors appear to be utterly silent - they should be pushing Northampton Rugby Football Club - appearances are of course deceptive but are some of them just there for the ride ?
Just a quickie about decision making. Last week, Furbank took a gamble with a last gasp penalty from the touch line in difficult conditions - fair play to the man for having a go but it was at the very least a debatable decision. This week, three points behind and a penalty was taken from almost on the half way line to tie the match up with about three minutes to go. Great kick from Piers but it wasn’t going to win the game, merely turn a lbp into a draw so net gain one point. The team need a win, especially at home and we all know that they are not going anywhere near top four. Probably, a question of ‘damned if you do damned if you don’t’ but the small margins are the ones that make
the difference. Discuss !

Take the three and then you only need another three.

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Saint Maul
Healey saying Mitchell might be leaving. Which would explain why we've signed Callum Brayley. If Healey is right.

I really hope that is not one in one out. Mitchell is the better of the two

Not after any ‘bites’ at all, just a point of view on the former and a discussion point on the latter !

Completely different team when Manny, Painter, Matervasi
API and Procter went off

One thing I noticed is we are sometimes very slow to get back in defence after a breakdown
Some of the guys like a breather rather than busting a gut to get back in position

Is that fitness or do some of them need a rocket

Talking about fitness what was up with Mitchell early in second half

I can’t see Mitchell leaving, I think that was just a case of a tiger trying to dig the knife in a bit more. Lomani to Irish seems all but confirmed with Phipps leaving as well. It could well be both or wrong about frank but If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it’s usually a duck.

Though if it is true and we losing Mitchell and callum is the main replacement then it would really smack of a lack of ambition. …

Regarding forwards getting to the rucks, in there defence in the second half saints had a ruck speed of 2.3 seconds so I can see why a few forwards and Mitchell were out on their feet.

But when they get to thee ruck they are clueless

I think the last two posts highlight two of our many problems. We play at a speed we are not fit enough to keep up and create super quick ball we are not skillful enough to do anything with.

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Aberavon Wizard
Just a quickie about decision making. Last week, Furbank took a gamble with a last gasp penalty from the touch line in difficult conditions - fair play to the man for having a go but it was at the very least a debatable decision. This week, three points behind and a penalty was taken from almost on the half way line to tie the match up with about three minutes to go. Great kick from Piers but it wasn’t going to win the game, merely turn a lbp into a draw so net gain one point. The team need a win, especially at home and we all know that they are not going anywhere near top four. Probably, a question of ‘damned if you do damned if you don’t’ but the small margins are the ones that make the difference. Discuss !

I don't think it would be such a bad option if you had any kind of faith that we could take the restart and clear our lines well. As others have said, it's then only another three...but until our exits improve, then it should have gone to the corner imho, as I could have put my mortgage on the fact the penalty to tie the game would then be given back to them quickly to take the win.

There's a lot of negative stuff on here. We had some stand out performances.
Manny is maturing well - need to allow for his opposite prop but also in open play. I thought Augustus played with a real presence and confidence as a leader in the team, the closing penalty was unfortunate. James has earned the No 10 shirt for the next two weeks . Ribbans seems back to his best - but then Exeter seem to bring out the best in him. Mitchell had a great game until his engine ran out (why not subbed then?).

Boyd seemed very grudging in his comments on James.

Of course you need wins to pay the rent, but exciting games help.

Anyone else getting the impression from recent interviews with Chris Boyd that he comes across like a man whose heart is no longer in it and he just wants to get home as soon as possible?

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Saint Maul
Anyone else getting the impression from recent interviews with Chris Boyd that he comes across like a man whose heart is no longer in it and he just wants to get home as soon as possible?

That would be very worrying if ties to the club were not being cut and he was about to take up a consultancy role !!!

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Santiago
There's a lot of negative stuff on here. We had some stand out performances.
Manny is maturing well - need to allow for his opposite prop but also in open play. I thought Augustus played with a real presence and confidence as a leader in the team, the closing penalty was unfortunate. James has earned the No 10 shirt for the next two weeks . Ribbans seems back to his best - but then Exeter seem to bring out the best in him. Mitchell had a great game until his engine ran out (why not subbed then?).

Boyd seemed very grudging in his comments on James.

Of course you need wins to pay the rent, but exciting games help.

There always will be when we lose.

However, strangely I thought our backrow was probably the most balanced and industrius I have seen for a long time.
Coles at 6, well worth a mention, at the majority of breakdowns where we took the ball in supporting and clearing ball, very notisable with the amount of quick ball.

Matevasi was a real pain at their breakdown hands on the ball stopping them from quick play

Augustus was a real powerhouse.

All of them did their share of carrying and tackling.

Is this the future

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Santiago
There's a lot of negative stuff on here. We had some stand out performances.
Manny is maturing well - need to allow for his opposite prop but also in open play. I thought Augustus played with a real presence and confidence as a leader in the team, the closing penalty was unfortunate. James has earned the No 10 shirt for the next two weeks . Ribbans seems back to his best - but then Exeter seem to bring out the best in him. Mitchell had a great game until his engine ran out (why not subbed then?).

Boyd seemed very grudging in his comments on James.

Of course you need wins to pay the rent, but exciting games help.

It was an Exeter C team so you expect us to be Competitive. Boyd should just be let go. Many fans are over his approach and we are 9th.

The 10 minute spell after the break was arguably the best we've played under Boyd. They then take Manny and Ehren off (premeditated?) and the game turned on a sixpence (coincidence?).

Firstly, congratulations to Manny and Ehren - consecutive weekends of scrum dominance - first Sale now Exeter. Augustus had another good game (penalty aside) which does beg the question as to why he wasn't in the original 23 - rest week? Mitchell played well but ran out of gas @55mins - why wasn't he replaced? His tiredness caused the yellow card. Tom Collins did well, but if he's going to play at this level his defence has to improve. Pleased for James Grayson - thought he played very well (apart from the miss in front of the posts) as indeed did GF. Having said that I thought their back 3 were a handful all afternoon and we really didn't defend well against them.

Some recurring themes the coaches need to work on:-

Our phase play is poor. We seem incapable of building beyond 5 phases whereas the likes of Exeter will run through 20 phases or more. We need to be more patient.

Our restart receiving is poor. We constantly put ourselves under pressure. Yesterday from the kick off yet another example.

Our kick chase is poor. It was a big difference between the teams yesterday.

Our breakdown work is poor. For sure we can get quick ruck speeds but where the breakdown is contested we too often come off 2nd best.

Then finally, we benefitted from a dreadful piece of officiating yesterday - how was that not an Exeter try!?

Was it just the substitutions that turned the game? (FWIW I think we also replaced the wrong centre to bring Piers on - for me Proctor was outplaying Dingwall, and Francis for Dingwall would also have been a more natural positional switch.)

Or was it that, at around pretty much the same time as those substitutions, we reverted to our poor kick chase. Possibly memory fails me, but for the 10 minutes we started to turn the screw we kept the ball in hand a lot more than we did the rest of the game?

The Mitchell thing is strange, his fitness has never really been an issue before but he was definitely blowing in the first half - maybe something to do with England training?

Manny was epic, not only making a high number of tackles but a good few dominant ones as well. I can only imagine they are being (over?) cautious about the number of minutes he plays still.

I have made a promise to myself not to post any comments immediately after the game in future !

Look, we have just started another important block of fixtures and have managed to lose two games
at home to two improving sides, albeit by small margins. Once the 6N is over we will get a few players back but then again so will most of the top sides in the Premiership.

The games against Sale and Exeter have, in my view, been good games to watch but most of us are getting pretty bored with losing as indeed must the players and coaches.

There were some good signs out there yesterday. Our front row had them on toast until such time as what were presumably per-meditated changes to the pack were made whereupon their replacements proved better than ours. I would suggest that if something is not broke then don't try to fix it !

Grayson did ok, he is more a Smyler than a Biggar but the lad has to be more than a little match rusty whilst Furbank looked far more at home wearing the fifteen shirt. Mitchell looked shattered after about sixty minutes which does not bode well unless he was carrying a knock - I don't often pay too much attention to Austin Healey but he was correct in his comments about Alex.

Defensively we looked scared to death of their 11,14 and 15, particularly the full-back.

Gloucester looks a big ask next weekend but I hope some lessons will have been learnt from the last two games.

We have no structure to our game, we play 'chuck-it-about' rugby from anywhere on the field instead of being a little bit pragmatic about where we are on the field of play. I don't understand why kicking the ball off the field has become such a no-no in modern rugby and then challenging for the lineout? Instead we kicked long and Hodge, O'Flaherty and Woodburn have a bumper day running back at us.

It's all so frantic, but when the ball sticks and goes to hand, we create and score magnificent tries, however to do that it all has to go right, unfortunately with the pace, the offloads and slight of hand, the majority of time we end up turning the ball over to the opposition in fumbles and knock ons.

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Saint.Kenneth
We have no structure to our game, we play 'chuck-it-about' rugby from anywhere on the field instead of being a little bit pragmatic about where we are on the field of play. I don't understand why kicking the ball off the field has become such a no-no in modern rugby and then challenging for the lineout? Instead we kicked long and Hodge, O'Flaherty and Woodburn have a bumper day running back at us.
It's all so frantic, but when the ball sticks and goes to hand, we create and score magnificent tries, however to do that it all has to go right, unfortunately with the pace, the offloads and slight of hand, the majority of time we end up turning the ball over to the opposition in fumbles and knock ons.

That pretty much sums up how I feel as well. I would take it even further, after four years we don't have one thing in place as a solid foundation. Our lineout is flaky at best, yes we did okay against a team missing five second rows, our scrum is not reliable, we are still prone to giving away silly penalties, our defensive alignment is awful, our kick and chase is possibly the worsted in the league, our restarts are poor and our ability to identify gaps and exploit them is very poor for a team that basically that is our main weapon.

I cannot remember a time when so many teams could basically rock up at the Gardens with large chunks of their first choice match day squad missing and still walk away with a four try winning bonus point.

It is hard to think of one good thing we have right at the minute, new coaches offer a glimmer of hope but the fact we will still be overseen by someone who has been a complete failure is beyond worrying.

The point was made again yesterday about 'cattle' - the thinking being if you're generally smaller than the opposition then you try and avoid an arm wrestle, you move them about and use your agility to your advantage. Think Lions vs SA in the final test.... However to make it work skills and fitness need to be absolutely on point as it is a much higher risk/reward way to play.

I also think that everything has worked for Saints this season, just not at the same time! We've had games where our lineout has been secured and nicked some opposition, we've just had a game where our scrum was dominant (for 50-odd minutes), we've had games where we've held out resolutely in defence and games where we've carved up the opposition with speed and skill. We just don't seem to be able to string it all together, defence tightens up but then lineout goes to pot. Lineout functions well but we get dominated at scrum time etc.

On the plus side I think our purple patch against Exeter was perhaps the best we've looked with nearly every aspect going well.

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LeicesterSaint
The point was made again yesterday about 'cattle' - the thinking being if you're generally smaller than the opposition then you try and avoid an arm wrestle, you move them about and use your agility to your advantage. Think Lions vs SA in the final test.... However to make it work skills and fitness need to be absolutely on point as it is a much higher risk/reward way to play.
I also think that everything has worked for Saints this season, just not at the same time! We've had games where our lineout has been secured and nicked some opposition, we've just had a game where our scrum was dominant (for 50-odd minutes), we've had games where we've held out resolutely in defence and games where we've carved up the opposition with speed and skill. We just don't seem to be able to string it all together, defence tightens up but then lineout goes to pot. Lineout functions well but we get dominated at scrum time etc.

On the plus side I think our purple patch against Exeter was perhaps the best we've looked with nearly every aspect going well.

Just out of interest which of those, if any, do you think are dependable enough to build a game plan or strategy around?

Doesn't the fact that our purple patch with everything going well still ended up with us getting beaten at home with the opposition getting a winning bonus point despite missing a huge number of quality players give a better indication of where we really are rather than just clutching at the fact occasionally things work well for a little while?

Lomani announced as leaving at last. Is that less than 6 months? Did not take him to long to work out the clubs approach and jumped asap i guess. Good luck to him.

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Rugbyman01
Lomani announced as leaving at last. Is that less than 6 months? Did not take him to long to work out the clubs approach and jumped asap i guess. Good luck to him.

And Jimmy Grayson to Newcastle?

No idea on JG but nothing surprising anymore. I'm sure it's coming if sources are correct.

What were boyd's comments on JG? I didn't see the game.

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Longers

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Rugbyman01
Lomani announced as leaving at last. Is that less than 6 months? Did not take him to long to work out the clubs approach and jumped asap i guess. Good luck to him.

And Jimmy Grayson to Newcastle?

So if this comes to pass, and Biggar and Furbank are called into their national squads, who plays 10 during the international windows? Paul Hill?

Thought James G had a decent game especially after a long absence not sure if I misheard but did the commentators say that in addition to COVID one of his brothers had been quite ill ? If so that might be part of the reason we haven’t seen him as much

It wasn't really elaborated on but yes they did mention one of his brothers has been pretty ill but now seems to be in recovery so it may be that he's not been out of favour or passed over but actually given some personal time. Maybe not but just goes to show how much we know.

Piers Francis played 10 initially when he came over and can do a job there but has had some decent spells out injured so with Biggar almost certainly away each international period then we would need someone if Grays is going.

[quote SWSaint]Thought James G had a decent game especially after a long absence not sure if I misheard but did the commentators say that in addition to COVID one of his brothers had been quite ill ? If so that might be part of the reason we haven’t seen him as much[/quote

Yes that’s correct. Joel. Rightly didn’t go into details but I got the impression it was serious.