Saints v Saracens 13th November 2022 - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:18:12:24:24 by Saint Ted.

Well looks a good team. We may be able to at least challenge them

Shame Hinkley and Ollie aren't available for selection, wonder whether Sleightholme failed HIA and is on return to play? Makes it even more curious there was no review last week!

That aside, looking at the teams you'd have to say this is good a time as any to play Sarries, their pack is arguably short of 6 first choice players. If our backrow can secure the breakdown then think the backs could cause them some issues, would be mildly hopeful on a win or returning with 2LBP at least!

Quote:

TunbridgeSaint
Makes it even more curious there was no review last week!

There was an informal review by the TMO at the time and the subsequent lack of a citing would suggest he was correct in the "no foul play" call

Ollie did fail is HIA. That was why theee was a question of where he actually got hit

I saw Ollie hit in front of me and it was foul play. Must be unclear from the camera angle but the clear out led with a shoulder and arm by his side. It caught Ollie on the side of the head. It was not only foul play but the penalty was awarded for the fact that the ball carrier didn't release. We took a quick one and scored. By this time what happened wasn't clear. It was still a red card offense missed. Even though you can't blame the ref for missing it.

You might not be able to blame the ref alone, but with 6? Cameras, replays and nearly 15000 assistants; as an officiating team, you certainly can!

The three England guys back is a massive boost. Very good opportunity tomorrow to put a bit of distance between us and the group of teams below us. Sarries will no doubt be well drilled and disciplined as ever but their pack is missing a fair few. Hopefully we will give them a very good game at least.

We switched off in defence at 20 minutes. We need more accuracy.

The ‘knowledgable’ Sarries supporters not used to their team being considered just outside the laws!

Saracens fans need to watch the replays. Referee been right for the decisions given and saints rightly deserving their lead. Can someone shut that stupid music off they keep playing.

Switched off and all over the field for that try.

Fin Smith is some player that’s for sure.
Sarries have made a few changes in this first half and would say we’ve got a more experienced bench so hoping that makes an impact on last 20

Vital for Saints to get first score in the second half….

Still not confident, seen us have bigger leads than this and then they evaporate!

Quite surprised there wasn't a TMO review on about the half hour mark.... pretty controversial, but I'm certain I saw Lowoski actually onside

Someone should tell the itv presenter that Saracens aren’t champions and we’re both missing players.

Keep it going. If we remain uncontested it’ll be nice to see Manny running free.

I fear a backlash!

Daly is like a petulant teenager who has always been told he is wonderful. Something goes against him and he starts crying.

So who have Sarries got on the pitch? Losing track now

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Whiston Saint
Daly is like a petulant teenager who has always been told he is wonderful. Something goes against him and he starts crying.

All game he has winged about every decision. Time the referee had a word.

I am sometimes embarrassed by the biased views ifrom our supporters at franklins gardens but Sarries are in a whole new dimension when it comes to delusional one eyed support.

For a game that is on free to air TV, the whole country can see Sarries fans as not being particularly sporting... Or tuneful!

How many games are we going to get points on the board, get a good lead and then give it away but by bit. Defence has been up and down with some really second rate defending.

We do seem very porous around their left wing area



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:14:01:26 by Deesaint.

Commentators willing Sarries to meet the pre-match script!

Criminal to throw this game away. Just some awful D

Can we not spot the same play happening again and again and again?
To throw away a 22 point lead is a disgrace.

Anyone know when we’re, erm, going to talk about Vass?

Talk about throwing away another game after being in front by a large margin!!

Some serious words need to be had - with the coaching team first.

Then the players.

Total disgrace. All the moaning about Mitchell not being picked for England laid bare by his pathetic attempt at the tackle on the wing. Despite the later yellow, James should have been on 10 minutes earlier.

It’s not just Vass, it’s the penalty count.
Two yellows through high tackles were brainless
The number of totally needless penalties simply killed us and all the opposition has to do against us is to keep applying pressure as they know that we will go into headless chicken mode and self destruct.

Yes we do have some very good players and can cut teams in half but we are totally bereft of any game management skills - we simply don’t have wise old heads out there to steady the ship when it all gets a bit tense.

We need to get better in the last 20 else we will be perennial nearly men.

Defence went from very good
To very porous
Holes everywhere

Big difference for me
Every Sarries player pushed hard to get back in the defence line every time
Some Saints players still trotting back when Sarries had completed recycling ball from break down
That is disappointing

28 unanswered points conceded, that’s special to bottle even by saints standards. Complete lack of leadership it seemed and playing into Sarries hands, don’t forget this was a Sarries team who were forced into multiple changes in the first half.
Really not sure how we lost that, you knew Sarries would come back but not by that much. Surely we knew Sarries game plan was to give the ball to Earl, he made 2 line breaks without a finger on him. Some player but looks like a truly awful bloke, small and full of himself!

That was unforgivable. Sarries didn’t need to do anything special other than run through the chasms in saints defence. We always seem to implode when the pressure comes on, where is the leadership? Is it a fitness thing?

Frankly totally unacceptable to lose from that position.
Still I'm sure Dowson will trot out the usual bxxxocks.
There is a serious problem mental at Saints in terms of fragility and a lack of winning mentality. It has been the case for years and why we will continue to be plucky lovers.

Uncontested scrums cost us. We had them on toast in scrum and i am sure at the end would have won some scrum penalties to clear our lines.

Ps
I think calling it a total disgrace is a bit far
2 points against the best team in the premiership
Should have won it

Frustrating but not far off

Still not sure about Vass

Plucky losers !!😂😁😂

Fell apart after the first (deserved) yellow card.

Quote:

TunbridgeSaint
28 unanswered points conceded, that’s special to bottle even by saints standards. Complete lack of leadership it seemed and playing into Sarries hands, don’t forget this was a Sarries team who were forced into multiple changes in the first half.
Really not sure how we lost that, you knew Sarries would come back but not by that much. Surely we knew Sarries game plan was to give the ball to Earl, he made 2 line breaks without a finger on him. Some player but looks like a truly awful bloke, small and full of himself!

Come on, that’s a pathetic post.
Earl is a winner. Were he on our team we wouldn’t have lost that.

I may have missed something, due to getting more and more annoyed, but did I really see that we substituted 2 backrow players for a Lock and winger??
We also played Hill for the whole game?

Quote:

Teabag
I may have missed something, due to getting more and more annoyed, but did I really see that we substituted 2 backrow players for a Lock and winger??
We also played Hill for the whole game?

Very good point.
I think that sarries used their bench well, esp when uncontested scrums commenced - no need for a front row so bring on all of your back row and midfield players to make you more mobile and threatening in attack.

We just kept a normal 15 out there and struggled with pace at the end.

I missed the game (badly timed family dinner) but unfortunately caught the score before getting to watch. Is it worth still watching or will I be tearing out my hair?

Quote:

Matthew
I missed the game (badly timed family dinner) but unfortunately caught the score before getting to watch. Is it worth still watching or will I be tearing out my hair?

You will be happy as Larry until about the 60th minute then you will tear out every strand of hair you have, even your eye lashes!!

Tacky and dishonoured they may be, you have to admire Saracens tenacity and ‘never give up’ spirit to win that one albeit with some help from the lady ‘in the van’.

I agree that uncontested scrums cost Saints because the scrummage seemed to be going pretty well with our original front row.

Losing a lead that big with such poor blindside defence asks an awful lot of questions of the coaching set-up. Seems to me sometimes like a bunch of third formers being made Head Boy and Prefects.

There is no disgrace in clearing your lines by kicking to touch - why simply give the opposition another chance to run back at you.

What happened to the composed performance we saw against Exeter ?

Whilst I have little doubt that the next two weekends will see weakened team selections, there are a few out there today who need to be given another opportunity to step up to the mark and prove what they can do



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:16:52:32 by Aberavon Wizard.

Uncontested scrums a deliberate tactic methinks....and I'm not the only one to so think 🤔q

Didn't we similarly benefit from uncontested scrums against someone recently?

Just watched the recording of this match being out lunchtime.
Thought we can't lose this now and felt smug. Oh yes we can

Pleased with the two points, disappointed in the manner in which they were obtained. Sarries are so far ahead of the pack and will finish top by a country mile that it’s two points gained in my book.

Was at the game. Question about uncontested scrums. We’re any of the Sarries replaced because of an Hia? I thought that’s the only way they could have 15 on the pitch with uncontested scrums? PA didn’t make it clear

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Chris Hoddle
Was at the game. Question about uncontested scrums. We’re any of the Sarries replaced because of an Hia? I thought that’s the only way they could have 15 on the pitch with uncontested scrums? PA didn’t make it clear

Bother the loose heads failed HIAs Chris.

It wasn't that clear what happened on TV to be honest.

It was a weapons grade demolition in the second half. I don't believe you can goto Saracens and concede two yellow cards and expect to win. If we'd had one more score we'd probably have survived. Some very sensible bench management on their part and some rather naive bench management on ours.

There was an air of rabbit in headlights around the 70th minute, just lacking a bit of maturity in leadership. Their "social" tactics played a big part too, screaming at every penalty/turnover is exhausting to listen to and eventually it must be demoralising. Good on the ref for penalising them for dissent, you don't see that very often.

Quote:

TringSaint

Quote:

Teabag
I may have missed something, due to getting more and more annoyed, but did I really see that we substituted 2 backrow players for a Lock and winger??
We also played Hill for the whole game?

Very good point.
I think that sarries used their bench well, esp when uncontested scrums commenced - no need for a front row so bring on all of your back row and midfield players to make you more mobile and threatening in attack.

We just kept a normal 15 out there and struggled with pace at the end.

They are not allowed to, they have to replace like for like until not physically possible. They had 2 tight heads on at the point it went uncontested and I also think they then had two hookers when one of those props subsequently went off injured

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Iamasaint

Quote:

TunbridgeSaint
28 unanswered points conceded, that’s special to bottle even by saints standards. Complete lack of leadership it seemed and playing into Sarries hands, don’t forget this was a Sarries team who were forced into multiple changes in the first half.
Really not sure how we lost that, you knew Sarries would come back but not by that much. Surely we knew Sarries game plan was to give the ball to Earl, he made 2 line breaks without a finger on him. Some player but looks like a truly awful bloke, small and full of himself!

Come on, that’s a pathetic post.
Earl is a winner. Were he on our team we wouldn’t have lost that.

One person doesn’t make a team. We still
Had 14 men to stop him

Quote:

BerniesBestFriend
Uncontested scrums a deliberate tactic methinks....and I'm not the only one to so think 🤔q

Hislop and Flynn failed HIAs, so you should withdraw that comment.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Quote:

acl saint

Quote:

Iamasaint

Quote:

TunbridgeSaint
28 unanswered points conceded, that’s special to bottle even by saints standards. Complete lack of leadership it seemed and playing into Sarries hands, don’t forget this was a Sarries team who were forced into multiple changes in the first half.
Really not sure how we lost that, you knew Sarries would come back but not by that much. Surely we knew Sarries game plan was to give the ball to Earl, he made 2 line breaks without a finger on him. Some player but looks like a truly awful bloke, small and full of himself!

Come on, that’s a pathetic post.
Earl is a winner. Were he on our team we wouldn’t have lost that.

One person doesn’t make a team. We still

Had 14 men to stop him

Indeed but he was a man possessed in the last 20 mins and he was hovering in the backs to get out our outside shoulders. We had 14 men but not one of them could stop him as he created 2 tries. Easier said than done when it’s all happening so quickly but he was the difference.
He is small though, only 6foot and 16stone so no denying that, and he is clearly the chief cheerleader

Our back row should have been marking Earl
He was made to look good
Because we didn’t cover defence properly

Are we allowed to mention, in the midst of all the doom and gloom on here, that we are up to third, albeit with the slight distortion of games played…

The league table does look good, until you take the distortion out, I keep a separate table where I balance it out based on some maths and a bit of a finger in the air, that table is placing us in 5th at the minute, but it’s that close at the minute it could go anywhere when it all balances out.

Quote:

stjj
Are we allowed to mention, in the midst of all the doom and gloom on here, that we are up to third, albeit with the slight distortion of games played…

That's a fair point albeit I don't think more losses than wins will equate to top 4 come the end of the season.

Quote:

Whiston Saint
Total disgrace. All the moaning about Mitchell not being picked for England laid bare by his pathetic attempt at the tackle on the wing. Despite the later yellow, James should have been on 10 minutes earlier.

Why?! To get a yellow or ( the TMO seemed to be pushing for Red) a red card 10 minutes earlier? Tom James is a talented 9 but simply shouldn’t have gone in that high. Salakia- Loto’s a bit less clear cut as the Saracens player on the way down but both were fair sin binning offences. Ultimately it was the cards that cost Saints the game and ultimately we need to improve our discipline massively. Tackle that bit lower, sure risk the odd offload but avoid the yellows and reds - not rocket science but hugely frustrating. Still realistically could of been a lot worse than a losing bonus loss at the Stone-X ….

The total disgrace comment was about losing the massive lead and the cards ere the primary reason s I have posted on another thread. The comment about Mitchell was because he cannot finish a game and should have gone off earlier. The tackle he missed on the wing led to the try that started the comeback. Poor tackling technique and tired because he cannot ast longer than 60 minutes. Great attacking 9 but not a complete player.

I am beginning to wonder why an HIA is assessed in a different way to any other injury ?

Quote:

Aberavon Wizard
I am beginning to wonder why an HIA is assessed in a different way to any other injury ?

I think it’s because it’s independently verified as opposed to other injuries where you rely upon the club.

Reality check - 2 points away to Saracens would have been quite a good return pre-match. Whichever personnel Saracens put out (including top quality backs in this match) Saracens have really effective playing systems and in my opinion a much more adventurous attack these days than they used to have.

I accept we have played more games than others but we have already played the away games against the other 3 teams in the top four…..

Quote:

SaintNick
Reality check - 2 points away to Saracens would have been quite a good return pre-match. Whichever personnel Saracens put out (including top quality backs in this match) Saracens have really effective playing systems and in my opinion a much more adventurous attack these days than they used to have.
I accept we have played more games than others but we have already played the away games against the other 3 teams in the top four…..

Agree with all this. 5 points from those games away against the top 3 is probably not a bad haul. But we do need to find a way to beat them in those home fixtures.

Quote:

SaintNick
Reality check - 2 points away to Saracens would have been quite a good return pre-match. Whichever personnel Saracens put out (including top quality backs in this match) Saracens have really effective playing systems and in my opinion a much more adventurous attack these days than they used to have.
I accept we have played more games than others but we have already played the away games against the other 3 teams in the top four…..

Reality check -we lost.

This is a competition. We play to win. We gave away a 22 point lead. That is simply unacceptable. (And it is nothing new!)

This is a very crude table adjustment solely based on the average number of points a team takes from a match and multiplying it by 9 so all teams would have the same number of games (I have another one done with a bit more maths and thought but I'm not confident the model I came up with is that good so I've kind of scrapped it)

Quote:

Saint Ted
This is a very crude table adjustment solely based on the average number of points a team takes from a match and multiplying it by 9 so all teams would have the same number of games (I have another one done with a bit more maths and thought but I'm not confident the model I came up with is that good so I've kind of scrapped it)

You do have a lot of meetings!

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Longers
You do have a lot of meetings!

On a train this time!