Saints v Tigers 28/01/23 - Match Thread - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:02:09:35:07 by Saint Ted.

I think Tigers have a strong team and we have too many key players out.

I think all things considered that’s a decent side. Tigers back row looks very good, 3rd choice Scrum Half may be a weakness

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Walks11
I think all things considered that’s a decent side. Tigers back row looks very good, 3rd choice Scrum Half may be a weakness

Yeah, but I think that by the way they play it will be less of an issue for them than it would us.

Our front 5 have to perform to help keep their back row keen or it will be a long day

Shame Weisse is back for them, he is just a horrible nasty aggressive player n will no doubt get carded… shame he not a Saint tho 😂

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SaintsAsh

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Walks11
I think all things considered that’s a decent side. Tigers back row looks very good, 3rd choice Scrum Half may be a weakness

Yeah, but I think that by the way they play it will be less of an issue for them than it would us.

Don't know what he's been up to recently but their bench SH used to be a 7's star with Saracens - seems tigers signed him frrom bears this week. I guess he's a replacement for Wrigglesworth.

I've heard that Tigers' no. 24 W Barnes is a cracking player and will most probably be our undoing.

As mentioned above
Our front 5 will make or break this one

Need a huge performance from them to get on top and stay there

Interesting we’ve gone for a 6-2 bench.

So Hinckley and Scott-Young should be all out first half with Wilkins and Graham on early 2nd half. Hopefully this brings closer parity against an impressive Tigers back row.

COYS!!!

How does Barnes always, always, get this gig?

Wayne Barnes... Traditional 😂

Two good sides, think our bench slightly ahead of yours, how we use it will be interesting, could be a close game and even missing lots of talent in both sides, still two decent sides who I'm sure will go at it with full intent as usual for these derby games.

Perfect opportunity for some of our 'squad' or 'fringe' players to stake a claim for a starting spot. It's games like this that can kick-start a career, just like Painter and Iyogun.

Huge performance required.

I see we have the talented but terribly, terribly nice squad at 4, 5, and 6 against the talented but
orrible, Wiese, Leibenberg and Snyman, I'm sure these Saffers would be no match "for our guys untamed wit" however it doesn't do much to defend 5m rolling mauls!

Like your Eton Rifles ref but, our 6 with his ACC nomenclature, I’m expecting Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap!

Sadly, I think we’re a bit light in the pack, will get mauled off the park and won’t maul ourselves, meaning our backs will get smashed too. Will be nice to see Lichfield get on. Feel like we haven’t seen him in ages. It’ll be nice to see Nansen run over people too. Small victories.

Game is a sell out.

Usual derby day impartiality shown by BT I see on the co comms.

Do we always have to have two ex Tigers commenting at the big derby game.

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ch saint
Do we always have to have two ex Tigers commenting at the big derby game.

Most pundits with a boot in one of the camps generally guard against their bias...not so much with Healey

Barnes is a disgrace. How can you call play on with a player down injured in the part of the field the player is down. Ridiculous.

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herbie85

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ch saint
Do we always have to have two ex Tigers commenting at the big derby game.

Most pundits with a boot in one of the camps generally guard against their bias...not so much with Healey

I’m thoroughly fed up with it I have to say, the insistence on BT to have these 2 on comms for this fixture the continued use of Dallaglio & Healey generally has led me to cancel my contract. There was much to love when they started, the arrogance of some of the pundits and BT’s refusal to make changes it’s all got a bit tired and would rather listen to radio Northampton and pay for the odd game via premier website.

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OldMarovian
Barnes is a disgrace. How can you call play on with a player down injured in the part of the field the player is down. Ridiculous.

I agree

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Saint Kris

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OldMarovian
Barnes is a disgrace. How can you call play on with a player down injured in the part of the field the player is down. Ridiculous.

I agree

If we had a defender in that channel I think he would have stopped it, although I still think he should

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Walks11

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Saint Kris

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OldMarovian
Barnes is a disgrace. How can you call play on with a player down injured in the part of the field the player is down. Ridiculous.

I agree

If we had a defender in that channel I think he would have stopped it, although I still think he should

With all the focus on safety at the moment, had fact that one of the medical team had to move our if the way if the ball probably says it all.

Haven't really got going yet. Missing Salakaia-Loto as Coles just doesn't have the weight in the carry.

Funny how ‘card card’ Healey missed the high challenge on Hutch

Defending very very well so far.

Can't fault the effort there. Can fault the punditry and some of the calls.

Alex Waller very riled up.

Sounds like Barnes is being Barnes. Listening on Radio Leicester and the main commentator is absolutely useless. He doesn’t seem to know what’s going on or understand the game.

Good first half our defence looks the best it has for ages. Barnes really on top of the game, I love the way he let's competition and keeps talking.

Recovered from the initial yellow quote well and got stronger as the half went on. One out carriers isn’t working and they look vulnerable when stretched, just need to reduce errors. Tigs will give pens away.

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Saint Kris
Alex Waller very riled up.

Just seen why, can’t blame him really

Not too bad so far.

Cannot say I share the excitement of us just running straight into Tigers' forwards with ours. We hardly do well against lesser sides.

Tom James? I do not share the love for him. He's slowing matters down.

Ollie Sleightholme must be wrapped in cotton wool between games! He has more dog than most of our forwards.

Glad to see Alex Waller get a bit feisty for once.

Lovely try!

Excellent try

Two key things missed in succession. Hands on the floor in front of the posts and then a throw in from the penalty not straight. Sort it out Barnes or just put a green shirt on.

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JohnI
Two key things missed in succession. Hands on the floor in front of the posts and then a throw in from the penalty not straight. Sort it out Barnes or just put a green shirt on.

Think he’s had a good game so far but agree with this

[quote Saint Kris][quote JohnI]Two key things missed in succession. Hands on the floor in front of the posts and then a throw in from the penalty not straight. Sort it out Barnes or just put a green shirt on.[/quote

Think he’s had a good game so far but agree with this[/quote]

Totally agree he has been very good but got those two wrong.

Why was Furbs forced to take the pen when tigers then make several substitutions and an applause for Burns! Joke

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Saint James
Why was Furbs forced to take the pen when tigers then make several substitutions and an applause for Burns! Joke

That’s twice the game should really have been paused.

Ollie Ollie Ollie. Kick it and use your speed

Yes boys. Well done saints

Can there be a better time to win away?

Well done Saints! Excellent win.

Totally different attitude today by the guys and an excellent performance. James Ramm turning out to be a really good find and one to hold onto.

Get in, deserved win. COYS

Best performance in a very long time. Well done Saints, great win. Ramm, Sleights and many others outstanding.

Really good performance just what was needed against our nearest and dearest when they are one place below us.
Get credit to the defence coaches.

I hope this indicates a change/development in our defence. That was an excellent performance.

I do wonder why we have subs that we will not use - for whatever reason.

Well done. Excellent performance.

So pleased with the way we played. We lost the first 10 minutes, self inflicted but we won most of the rest of the game. Very fine margins but we played smart rugby. Long good kicks mixed with low flat ones, high catchable ones and then the option to run when on. And we chased everything. Skosan was masterful in the air which kept it even.

I actually think James was MOTM. A different game to Mitchell but probably the right one for the conditions and the opposition. He was busy all day.

Don't want to see that every game but when its cold and wet it was good to see plan B.

I apologise to Coles, Moon and Scott Young, you fronted up and more of the same please, a happy Hammersaint!!

Austin Healey says we deserved to win but still coming across as a little mealy-mouthed I think

Well Played Saints. You deserved the victory. See you next year, I hope.

Congratulations on a well deserved win. Barnes was good and missed decisions for both sides.

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Tom Paine
Well Played Saints. You deserved the victory. See you next year, I hope.

Blimey! Didn’t expect that.
Was occasionally checking the score and saw we were a few points up with 20 to go and felt that the inevitable double yellow and 4 tries to the opposition would happen, but no! We held out.

A well earned beer for one and all tonight!!

Really good effort completely against current form, well done. Now we need to continue to improve

Working today, saw the score was 10-3 and then thought it would be another one of those days at Welford Road so didn’t check back. So surprised when eldest told me the score. He says we deserved it and the comments here seem to echo that. Will look forward to watching it tonight….. so much more relaxing knowing the score!

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Saint Kris

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Saint Kris
Alex Waller very riled up.

Just seen why, can’t blame him really

I didn’t really see what happened to rile Alex, can you enlighten me?

as the song goes...
"Who the hell are Leicester Tigers as the Saints in go marching On On ON.
What a cracking game and a thoroughly MOM to Ramm. He was awesome today.

Bragging rights back with us. Well played boys after the first 10-15 minutes.

Leicester player on the floor grabbed him by the ankle (while he was standing) & tried to twist it the wrong way, possibly while holding his shin in place. could have been quite nasty.

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Saint Kris
Leicester player on the floor grabbed him by the ankle (while he was standing) & tried to twist it the wrong way, possibly while holding his shin in place. could have been quite nasty.

Thanks.. The refusal to shake hands was quite telling

Someone on the Bath board viewed it as a deliberate attempt to injure Waller. Not good.

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Walks11

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Saint Kris
Leicester player on the floor grabbed him by the ankle (while he was standing) & tried to twist it the wrong way, possibly while holding his shin in place. could have been quite nasty.

Thanks.. The refusal to shake hands was quite telling

You have to love rugby - the act of not shaking hands showing just how upset someone is.

Credit where it’s due to Saints, superb performance and made Tigers really look quite average, think Pollard going off injured due to friendly fire was a big loss for them.
Scrum went well and good to see the props carrying well; thought Ethan had a good impact off the bench too.
Furbank is an asset to the squad, to be able to step in at 10 like that, fair play.
And Augustus is immense, should to all out to keep him if we can

What a win! Much better defence, a lot of heart and Ramm was deservedly player of the match. Yes there were some frustrating bits but let’s celebrate beating our neighbours!

Plus Paul Hill, stepping in at scrum half again as well as a good display in the scrum! I do hope he’s working on his box kick, it’s only a matter of time before he’s going to need it!

Wow
How tense was that
I do like Hinckley really makes a difference
The front 5 stood strong after the first 15 minutes

That win gave so much pleasure

But what on earth was Tigers tactics
Just kicked everything away

I thought we played the better rugby

Now if we can bottle that and repeat at every game
Who knows

Wayne Banks upset both sets of supporters so you know he was doing a good job 😀

I feared the worst given the start, thought here we go again another day where everything goes wrong at WR. Thought we were much improved pretty much across the park, shame we couldn’t turn 2nd half dominance into points, we seemed to have the better of the half but really couldnt spend long enough in their 22 and in turn get enough points to get far enough ahead.

Am I right in remembering Mr Ramm was a recommendation from Rob Horne? If so a very big nod to Rob for that, he’s really quite good.

Potential citing for Wiese I’d say.
Credit to the defence today, really showed up and a marked improvement from previous games. Ramm’s general footwork is superb, not to mention that offload. Sleights quality

Get in there.

Lots to love about the heart shown in that performance. Some of the standout memories. Ramm’s offload and Sleightholme’s swerve. Sleightholme’s counter-ruck on Leibenberg. James’ game management. Waller’s fire. Our defence holding them out a few times close to the line.

After a really dispiriting few weeks, that’s brought a much needed grin back to my face when watching Saints. Now let’s back it up.

Gutsy performance which deserved the win

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shendy
Someone on the Bath board viewed it as a deliberate attempt to injure Waller. Not good.

To be fair, I can remember one of ours not so long ago actually breaking a bone by doing similar, the Leicester hooker iirc?

Edit - i say not long ago, blimey it was 2012...where did that time go??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:28:20:40:56 by herbie85.

Just read the Telegraph report.. we didn’t use 4 replacements, huge effort from the guys who started and also finished

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shendy
Someone on the Bath board viewed it as a deliberate attempt to injure Waller. Not good.

It was a deliberate attempt to injure and I hope the Citing Officer has a good look at it.

It does need a second look for sure, but i am sure we won't all get worked up about it claiming it was an attempt to murder the whole Waller family. A player lost his head and stepped over the line but in such a tight hard fought battle these things happen.

That was awesome! Massive defence and a very pragmatic approach to keeping the scoreboard ticking over. The Ramm/Sleightholme try was a thing of beauty!!

The work that the pack got through was immense.

Tigers have apparently only lost one home game in 17.....and then the Saints marched in!

More of the same please. Thanks Jimmies.

Fantastic performance. Sleightholme and Ramm were both brilliant both in attack and defence - Saints are so lucky with them both and I think Sleights has the potential to be our best all round winger. The work rate and physicality across the pitch was a huge transformation, particularly in the front 5 who I've criticised recently but today they were fantastic, including the set piece - Robbie Smith has looked out of depth until this week but deserves huge credit for his performance today playing for most of the game.

Wiese's incident should definitely be looked at again and the TMO needs to do some reflecting- that could well have been nasty and then boiled over and I'm not sure what he was watching. Barnes overall was excellent but rugby needs to change some of its rules to make it less subjective and give more free kicks and less penalties or it's inevitable referees end up deciding so many games (and this came v close to that!)

Finally Tom James deserves huge credit for matching Leicesters kicking game. Leicester are the best at it alongside Sarries in the league and James combined with our back 3 largely nullified it to allow us - with our physicality - to win that game. Amazing



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:28:22:07:45 by Saintfanh.

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herbie85

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shendy
Someone on the Bath board viewed it as a deliberate attempt to injure Waller. Not good.

To be fair, I can remember one of ours not so long ago actually breaking a bone by doing similar, the Leicester hooker iirc?

Edit - i say not long ago, blimey it was 2012...where did that time go??

It was a long time ago. If I remember correctly, he was given a long ban (as much to do with the actual injury inflicted, I think, as with intent).

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Saint Kris

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herbie85

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shendy
Someone on the Bath board viewed it as a deliberate attempt to injure Waller. Not good.

To be fair, I can remember one of ours not so long ago actually breaking a bone by doing similar, the Leicester hooker iirc?

Edit - i say not long ago, blimey it was 2012...where did that time go??

It was a long time ago. If I remember correctly, he was given a long ban (as much to do with the actual injury inflicted, I think, as with intent).

I had the exact same thought, I can remember how long they went on about how Mr Clarke should be banned for life etc.

In this case it all fine, the main difference is outcome, not intent. He didn't manage to actually do any damage so its fine.

And yet Moon did the same act twice in the same game and I am sure there were many others. To equate this to the Clarke incident is really ridiculous.

Holding someone in a tackle and trying to twist their ankle are two different things.

This is a false equivalent, made up to draw attention from your players actions.

All I'm asking for is some consistency from the tigers supporters?

Well done saints we were pants and you deserved to win.

Healey is the new Stuart Barnes. A boring after the event expert.

I prefer to think you were excellent and we still deserved to win!

Great win. We showed a lot of composure and character yesterday. Tigers were not at their best but a win at WR is always one to shout about! Especially given our absentees and against a stronger Tigers side than I was expecting. Lots of good performances but in particular thought Tom James had an excellent game and controlled things better than Mitch has done in a lot of games this season. He got some good hang time on his kicks and generally played the conditions very well.

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St Marcus
Great win. We showed a lot of composure and character yesterday. Tigers were not at their best but a win at WR is always one to shout about! Especially given our absentees and against a stronger Tigers side than I was expecting. Lots of good performances but in particular thought Tom James had an excellent game and controlled things better than Mitch has done in a lot of games this season. He got some good hang time on his kicks and generally played the conditions very well.

When Braley had a good game (his first?) a few weeks ago someone posted belittling Tom James. I don't recall him having a bad game.

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Duckonstilts
It does need a second look for sure, but i am sure we won't all get worked up about it claiming it was an attempt to murder the whole Waller family. A player lost his head and stepped over the line but in such a tight hard fought battle these things happen.

Sorry ducks, we had two players last week who ‘stepped over the line’ and got red cards and bans as a result. The big difference is their step over happened without any thought about it, his attempt yesterday was calculated and did not have to try and do as he did.

With due respect to Tom Collins and those clamouring for his inclusion, the performances of Skosan, Ramm and Sleightholme show why he wasn't selected, despite the Tigers programme claiming that he was our starting 13.

Cracking performance!

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JohnI

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Duckonstilts
It does need a second look for sure, but i am sure we won't all get worked up about it claiming it was an attempt to murder the whole Waller family. A player lost his head and stepped over the line but in such a tight hard fought battle these things happen.

Sorry ducks, we had two players last week who ‘stepped over the line’ and got red cards and bans as a result. The big difference is their step over happened without any thought about it, his attempt yesterday was calculated and did not have to try and do as he did.

I would look at the poor tackling and suggest it was a slip over the line rather than a step. There was nothing deliberate. A step is a choice. At the weeken He lost his rag and chose to try and hurt someone but it wouldn't happen 99 times out of 100. It takes a lot of stress, pressure and aggression. I just want us to remember that even good players and decent blokes make mistakes and we live in a very transparent building full of stones.

Hopefully he gets a small ban and a reminder that its a dangerous enough game without taking stupid actions.

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Stokey
With due respect to Tom Collins and those clamouring for his inclusion, the performances of Skosan, Ramm and Sleightholme show why he wasn't selected, despite the Tigers programme claiming that he was our starting 13.
Cracking performance!

Agreed the performances of those 3 were tremendous yesterday but TC injured his hand in the week so think that’s the reason he wasn’t included. Hopefully not too serious and he can make the semi final!

Glad to see a lot of the players proved some wrong about their aggression, dog etc but can we say the same for our medical staff? Kudos to them for not getting in the way but surely if they are running towards a downed player they don't have to make such and effort to avoid the ball? I'm playing before anybody gets annoyed (but next time 'accidentally' shin it halfway up the pitch and then deploy innocent face)!

I think with the Waller incident the citing officer will have a good look but maybe one where only the player really knows the intent - he will no doubt claim he was just trying to complete the tackle which could be the case, certainly Waller didn't agree at the time. Fortunately no harm done, you do see some nasty joint injuries where the leg is held in a tackle and a secondary tackler or ruckers smash the upper body.

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Saintsfan22
Agreed the performances of those 3 were tremendous yesterday but TC injured his hand in the week so think that’s the reason he wasn’t included. Hopefully not too serious and he can make the semi final!

Who are you dropping out of those then to include TC? And that is not even including Furbank and Freeman. TC is very firmly 5th choice back at the moment and it is the right decision to not renew his contract. Personally I would probably have Proctor on the wing instead of him as well.

We can always fall back on Sleightholme Jnr and potentially Sleightholme Jnr Jnr for local boy wingers if that's what's important.

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Saints Advocate

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Saintsfan22
Agreed the performances of those 3 were tremendous yesterday but TC injured his hand in the week so think that’s the reason he wasn’t included. Hopefully not too serious and he can make the semi final!

Who are you dropping out of those then to include TC? And that is not even including Furbank and Freeman. TC is very firmly 5th choice back at the moment and it is the right decision to not renew his contract. Personally I would probably have Proctor on the wing instead of him as well.

Certainly not arguing he should have started over anyone at the weekend merely pointing it out. Quite frankly TC has never ever let us down and I feel he should have played more over the last few years so I agree it’s best for him to leave but that’s because he deserves to be playing every week in this league he’s that good!
Pretty sure he’s our only winger who can create a try out of nothing but only room for one of him and Skosan with Ollie’s defensive attributes required at present

Ollie seems to have been told, like many wingers that he needed to get in the game more. He has decided that being a menace at the breakdown and punishing players who dare run down his wing is the way to do it. A good contrast to Skosan who chases everything and competes well in the air. Being very busy gets you picked.

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Duckonstilts
Ollie seems to have been told, like many wingers that he needed to get in the game more. He has decided that being a menace at the breakdown and punishing players who dare run down his wing is the way to do it. A good contrast to Skosan who chases everything and competes well in the air. Being very busy gets you picked.

I don't think that's true - if someone told Ollie to get in the game more it was his dad when he was aged about 10. It's always been part of his game, as well as chasing everything when required by the game plan. He used to do cameos coming on late in the game and scoring with his first touch He is probably first in line for the Nowell slot in the England squad.

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Santiago
He is probably first in line for the Nowell slot in the England squad.

Is that at 11 or 7?*

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St Stokey.

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Santiago
He is probably first in line for the Nowell slot in the England squad.

Is that at 11 or 7?*

Precisely

Our defense showed a marked improvement against Tigers but our attack was much less 'flamboyant' than in other matches.

Is it fair to say that our 'attack attack attack' approach makes it very difficult to effectively defend? Perhaps an element of restraint in attack is the way forward. All very well to attack when it's clearly on, but otherwise, a measured approach is possibly the way to continue.

I think that's at least part of the issue - some teams play very prescriptive game plans which makes is much easier to set systems. Eg if you always kick from your own 22 then everyone knows what they're doing. We want players to have the freedom to play what they see which has three risks a) they misread and it isn't on, b) it is on but a skill error spoils it or c) it is on and the original player executes but those around don't read as quickly.

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St Stokey.
Our defense showed a marked improvement against Tigers but our attack was much less 'flamboyant' than in other matches.
Is it fair to say that our 'attack attack attack' approach makes it very difficult to effectively defend? Perhaps an element of restraint in attack is the way forward. All very well to attack when it's clearly on, but otherwise, a measured approach is possibly the way to continue.

It’s not a coincidence we won our first away game in ages by adopting a more pragmatic style IMHO. Hopefully not a one off adjustment of tactics.

Being more pragmatic is exactly what PD said after the game

Perhaps the coaches, as well as the players, have been instructed to play a far more controlled game
Especially when away

Hello all, I’ve been a Saints supporter and season ticket holder/shareholder for 30 years. I’ve always read the message board with interest but never felt motivated to engage but after the Tigers game I feel now is the time.

We have always been an inconsistent team, when we are good we are brilliant but when we are bad we are awful seemingly despite who is in charge and who is playing. And let’s not forget we have had world class coaches and players throughout our history, is it the Saints DNA?

An ex colleague who is a Tigers supporter invited me to Welford Road on Saturday and I accepted with some trepidation as every time I have been there we have been well beaten.

But is was different this time. Let’s be honest we played like Saracens, very aggressive un Saints like defence, perfectly executed kick chase attack/defence and when the attack opportunity came brilliant execution by Ramm/Sleighthome to win the game. And all of this missing our England stars and red carders.

The Tigers supporters around me couldn’t believe what was happening, my ex colleague said the Saints defence was the best he had ever seen against the Tigers and thought that James was the man of the match by a mile.

The match reports imply that this was a one off game strategy by us to get a much needed away win and that we would be “back to normal” next time we play, what?! To be successful we need to win and I personally will never forget Welford Road last Saturday and I trust the Saints management don’t either🤓