Saints v Sale Sharks - 18th Feb 2023 - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:24:09:13:15 by Saint Ted.

Strong sale side again which will be difficult to beat but we have the backs to win games

looks to me like Saints are better in the backs but Sale are better up front. We usually don't fare too well in these kinds of situations....

Hope our starting front row last as long as possible with no enforced subs especially with Tempest as ref 🤞

Strong looking Sale side, think their game plan will be fairly obvious but whether we can stop it is another question and Tom Curry is some player, he can’t play many games for sale!
Sale have been out of form a bit whilst still winning so if our forwards can secure some ball then could have a chance. Should be a cracking match

21-36 I fear

Can't see we could do much better with those available.

But the two packs do not match up so well - but then we might have said that about the Tigers match, so let's wait and see if that was just a one off, or the start of something....🤞

Don’t get on the wrong side of Tempest and hopefully Ms Hodnett will relax a little !

Very quiet on the board today, everyone feeling nervous about this one perhaps?

Same first try comes after Tempest misses curry hands on the floor before trapping ball in. Hands must go to the ball first.

Pretty embarrassing this.

I'm embarrassed with this defence, god knows how the players are feeling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:18:15:26:59 by herbie85.

We have a great maul for once, smith breaks away and yet there's no one within 20 yards of him?

It's going to take years to undo the damage that prioritising attack over defense has done to our mindset.

Just poor. Men (albeit pretty big ones) against boys this.

We don't even look very good in attack... Players don't look like they know what to do. Can you imagine if sale had 15 players on the pitch?

A very poor first half, Northampton look lazy, only saints can make a one man advantage look so difficult.
Need an attitude change in the second half.
Nicely worked try however.

A little bit worrying we are a bonus point down at half time against 14 men. Lucky they had the other try disallowed.
We actually look dangerous in attack, which in fairness you should against a team a man down but keep messing up.

At the game with my head in my hands. I blame the emails about renewing season tickets - we're always awful after trying to sell something! (See also 'learn to play the Saints way!' emails that used to come out shortly after our annual pre-Christmas European implosion)

Quote:

Matthew
At the game with my head in my hands. I blame the emails about renewing season tickets - we're always awful after trying to sell something! (See also 'learn to play the Saints way!' emails that used to come out shortly after our annual pre-Christmas European implosion)

To be fair we have been awful for the majority of the season, with the odd good game

Imagine having the whole week to prepare for this style of play and still looking utterly clueless against it.

Copy and paste from previous weeks ‘changes needed’

Think braley needs to come on for james for quicker ball and dowson needs to light an absolute fire this 2nd half. Forget the first and just rip into them. We'll have opportunities in the wide channels but we won't win if our mindset is anything like the first 40.

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Berkshire-Saint

Quote:

Matthew
At the game with my head in my hands. I blame the emails about renewing season tickets - we're always awful after trying to sell something! (See also 'learn to play the Saints way!' emails that used to come out shortly after our annual pre-Christmas European implosion)

To be fair we have been awful for the majority of the season, with the odd good game

I'd say we've found a new level of awful so far today!

Quote:

TheGent
Think braley needs to come on for james for quicker ball and dowson needs to light an absolute fire this 2nd half. Forget the first and just rip into them. We'll have opportunities in the wide channels but we won't win if our mindset is anything like the first 40.

Interestingly (or not) the TV cameras in the changing room at half time had the team sat in forwards and backs groups and calmly talking through things.

They should really tire later in the game. Can we put a half of rugby together? We should still be in this.

Need to keep the tempo and pressure up until the end.
Never mind, stupid penalty and field position, followed by a try gifted straight away.
Obviously a 1 man advantage isn’t enough.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:18:16:34:02 by Berkshire-Saint.

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TimperleySaint

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TheGent
Think braley needs to come on for james for quicker ball and dowson needs to light an absolute fire this 2nd half. Forget the first and just rip into them. We'll have opportunities in the wide channels but we won't win if our mindset is anything like the first 40.

Interestingly (or not) the TV cameras in the changing room at half time had the team sat in forwards and backs groups and calmly talking through things.

And worryingly nothings changed.

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ajack
They should really tire later in the game. Can we put a half of rugby together? We should still be in this.

We should be, but we just take ineptitude to a whole new level.

Mixture of concern and relief. Not sure what is the over riding emotion...but again like with the tigers game, can't fault the effort

Well that was never in doubt!

A fair few cracks papered over in the end though, and 5 points to the good!

An exciting watch no doubt, and glad we got the 5points but will only paper over the cracks, reality is we were only dominant when they had 13, I’m not sure we got the tempo right much of the game.
Ultimately I expect any team in the prem to win with a 1man advantage for 65 mins and 2 man for 20.
As a Saints fan I can’t say I’m impressed, but another exciting prem fixture that was a great watch.

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Longers

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ajack
They should really tire later in the game. Can we put a half of rugby together? We should still be in this.

We should be, but we just take ineptitude to a whole new level.

I don't agree. Not perfect by any stretch and most calls went our way but there was some real spirit out there and we kept the pressure on. Any win from that many behind deserves some credit.

As soon as we changed the tempo and started playing our game the game changed.
Don’t understand why we didn’t get the penalty from the kick off after two shoulder challenges.

Good win for the saints, didn’t see us winning this before or up to about the 65min point but 5 points is a great take away. Sale looked the smarter side overall and could well have won but I think that red and some tired indiscipline let them down in the last minutes.

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ajack

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Longers

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ajack
They should really tire later in the game. Can we put a half of rugby together? We should still be in this.

We should be, but we just take ineptitude to a whole new level.

I don't agree. Not perfect by any stretch and most calls went our way but there was some real spirit out there and we kept the pressure on. Any win from that many behind deserves some credit.

I always say I won't comment during a game - and this is why!

I'm normally a positive person and that is a great 5 points but in the bigger picture of the season - no red card means sale win. We can't keep relying on epic comebacks

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TimperleySaint
I'm normally a positive person and that is a great 5 points but in the bigger picture of the season - no red card means sale win. We can't keep relying on epic comebacks

I love speculation. (no red card card sale win)... it's such bs.... we've been saying this the entire season and yet we're 3rd..... in 2011 Wales got a red card in semi final and "would have" won the WC.... NZ won BTW.

I love the fight... I thought we had no chance and loved the fact we won. Same versus Wasps in Cov.

We keep doing it, so maybe we should start to believe... #whynotus 🤪🫣🤣😉

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TimperleySaint
I'm normally a positive person and that is a great 5 points but in the bigger picture of the season - no red card means sale win. We can't keep relying on epic comebacks

Agree with that, hoping the comeback doesn't paper over the cracks in the minds of the coaches, I'm sure it won't. But, on the positive we would rather be in contention for top 4 than the season fizzling out, which I think it may had we lost today, not just in league points but psychologically against 13/14 blokes for decent chunks of the game. Lessons need to be either learnt quickly or solved by recruitment in the longer term though against teams like Sale and how they play. Ribbans BT man of the match, probably deservedly so, hopefully his replacement is a bit of a different mould however, our second rows seem very similar in terms of skill set and build, being good ball players. Just my opinion but someone who enjoys and excels in the 'tight' elements of the game may add to what we have there and allow for these types of fixtures against bigger packs.

Showed a lot of heart in the last 20 which is good. We're in transition so imo will take a while to build the squad in the mould dowson wants (bigger) and get the new balance between attack and defense where we need it to be. Until then we're always going to struggle against bigger, well drilled teams.

Luckily sale's discipline was pretty poor today and we took advantage in the end, but a long way to go until we're back to consistently dominating games.

Well, that was a cracking game for a neutral, but I was cheering saints on towards the end! Brilliant comeback. Shouldn’t have let them get so far ahead of course. Onwards. Well done.

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TheGent
Showed a lot of heart in the last 20 which is good. We're in transition so imo will take a while to build the squad in the mould dowson wants (bigger) and get the new balance between attack and defense where we need it to be. Until then we're always going to struggle against bigger, well drilled teams.
Luckily sale's discipline was pretty poor today and we took advantage in the end, but a long way to go until we're back to consistently dominating games.

We've been in transition for 6 years. I admire patience.

Having predicted a bit of a thumping, and fearing even worse at half time, I am really happy with that!

More of that please. COYS!!

Got very lucky today. Sale played 65 minutes with 14 men and 20 minutes with only 13 men. And Saints only won by 4. At home.

To me, this was just more of the same, Saints have not kicked on and look quite a lot like Saints from previous seasons, very up and down, frequently minutes apart. Only at the end could they turn it on.

Unfortunately, Saints record stands at 7 wins and 7 losses and the expression 'You are what your record says you are' could not be more apt.

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JohnI
As soon as we changed the tempo and started playing our game the game changed.
Don’t understand why we didn’t get the penalty from the kick off after two shoulder challenges.

That only applies for offences after the try is scored.

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JohnI
Don’t understand why we didn’t get the penalty from the kick off after two shoulder challenges.

I suppose just like any other kind of penalty, we played advantage (both occurred before we scored) and then scored, clearing that advantage. I wondered the same myself until I pondered a bit further!

Over the years I have seen plenty of games won by a team down to 14 men. It isn’t as straight forward and obvious as you would think. THis was by no means a “should have won” game.
Sale were incredibly physical. We lost Furbank early on. Then we lost Finn as well. This was not a game that was all our way.
The team did not give up. They kept the fight to the end. And they made the most of what they could.
We have scored the second highest number of points in the league, and have scored more tries than any. However, we have also the highest number of points scored against us. CLearly there is a lot to work on. But we are third. We are in the fight.

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Longers

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TheGent
Showed a lot of heart in the last 20 which is good. We're in transition so imo will take a while to build the squad in the mould dowson wants (bigger) and get the new balance between attack and defense where we need it to be. Until then we're always going to struggle against bigger, well drilled teams.
Luckily sale's discipline was pretty poor today and we took advantage in the end, but a long way to go until we're back to consistently dominating games.

We've been in transition for 6 years. I admire patience.

I’ve been transition for getting on 70 years, and I’m hoping for a few more yet 😁

Officiating first. Feeding at the scrum. Whatever next.

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Sans Culottes
Officiating first. Feeding at the scrum. Whatever next.

I have no issue with this, as longs as its applied to both sides, clearly wasn't!

Sale really let us off the hook but it’s an 80-min game and their poor discipline came back to haunt them.
Looks like we picked up a few injuries ahead of next week but we stuck to our guns well and got there in the end and thoughts Collins made a difference when he came on, his pace is such a threat.
James and F.Smith not at their best today but respect to Alex Waller on 250 matches, some effort.
Important 5 points and if we can get another 5 points next week it will put us in a strong position to finish in the play offs

I don't know how to feel about this result. Obviously happy to take 5pts and be 3rd in the table however I don't believe we are top 3 quality. Serious lack of supporting runners led to turnovers and wasted opportunities. Defence and ferocity at the start was strong but quickly wained.

Daysie said it so many times, tempo. Up the tempo, tire them out and exploit our pace out wide. We rarely seemed to apply urgency. These things must change for us to compete in the play offs.

Saying that, ball in hand was great when it stuck and pace incredible. The never say die attitude was also incredible. Great to have Fraser smashing people again, boy looked hungry.

Really concerned about injuries picked up, Furbank looks a long layoff, season over for him?

Jesus we won. Yes against 14 but that’s there decision about how they play
Yes sale looked good
But. We. Won
Sod this papering over cracks. We are where we are. We aren’t perfect but we play a good style of rugby


Get in. We bloody well won!!!!

We can all agree that our pack struggled against the power of Sale, but let us not forget that we we without Courts, Lukhan and our captain, Lewis. In the circumstances that was a bloody good effort!

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lost in duston
Jesus we won. Yes against 14 but that’s there decision about how they play
Yes sale looked good
But. We. Won
Sod this papering over cracks. We are where we are. We aren’t perfect but we play a good style of rugby


Get in. We bloody well won!!!!

+1

One thing that is constant with Saints
Never have ( or publish) expectations of where the game will end

Sale’s forwards dominated us for the first half
Westy must have had a broad smile

But once the game wore on and Sale went down to 13 men
Their overworked big forwards tired and spaces appeared
We are very good when this happens

No matter
A win is a win and that is 5 points against the second placed club

But it was a roller coaster of emotions

Onto next week
3 in a row ?

Just imagine if we had the sale pack in front of our backs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:19:18:23:37 by Deesaint.

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Longers

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TheGent
Showed a lot of heart in the last 20 which is good. We're in transition so imo will take a while to build the squad in the mould dowson wants (bigger) and get the new balance between attack and defense where we need it to be. Until then we're always going to struggle against bigger, well drilled teams.
Luckily sale's discipline was pretty poor today and we took advantage in the end, but a long way to go until we're back to consistently dominating games.

We've been in transition for 6 years. I admire patience.

My patience ran out 2 seasons ago lol. Referring to post Boyd transition. Dowson is obviously looking to steer us more towards what we did well under Jim and Dorian, he just doesn't have enough players with the right mindset or physicality yet.

I for one am looking forward to moving away from the you score 4 well score 5 approach.

Could not be at the game a planned so just watched this morning.

Having read this board I was expecting a worse performance.

Our attack was stiffled by Sale preventing the offload by going high. As a result they had so, so many tackles contacting the head area. So to stop our attack they were always going to get yellows in today's game.

I am a little concerned about the scrum, the last two games I watched our scrum has been under the pump. I think we miss Api in the scrum, I would like us to replace Ribbans with a big lump of a lock and dare I say it a big loosehead :p

Ol’oneeye
“I love speculation. (no red card card sale win)... it's such bs.... we've been saying this the entire season and yet we're 3rd..... in 2011 Wales got a red card in semi final and "would have" won the WC.... NZ won BTW.

I love the fight... I thought we had no chance and loved the fact we won. Same versus Wasps in Cov.

We keep doing it, so maybe we should start to believe... #whynotus 🤪🫣🤣😉”

Exactly!
Why is everyone full of doom and gloom before the match, and then when we win, they feel the need to look for reasons why, other than we played our game and won? If Sale want to come and play a game employing illegal and dangerous tactics and get punished, losing is their punishment. Tough. Has everyone forgotten how we beat a 15 man Leicester team in a semi final with 14 men? Sale just were not good enough to beat us with 14. They still had a full scrum. We edged them towards the end. Oh, and Sandersons interview through clenched teeth was a joy to see and hear.
We are now 3rd. Support the team, win or lose.

“Our attack was stiffled by Sale preventing the offload by going high. As a result they had so, so many tackles contacting the head area. So to stop our attack they were always going to get yellows in today's game. ”
Exactly

It was their choice.
I thought they were lucky not to get another yellow with their 10s tackle on TF when Furbank got injured.

I did think curry and oflaherty were superb though

Reminded me of Arsenal over the last ten years - pretty rugby but defensively weak and always likely to implode at the first opportunity. The key is to learn from mistakes and bring in new players with the right mindset - do that and it can eventually come good.

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TheGent

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Longers

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TheGent
Showed a lot of heart in the last 20 which is good. We're in transition so imo will take a while to build the squad in the mould dowson wants (bigger) and get the new balance between attack and defense where we need it to be. Until then we're always going to struggle against bigger, well drilled teams.
Luckily sale's discipline was pretty poor today and we took advantage in the end, but a long way to go until we're back to consistently dominating games.

We've been in transition for 6 years. I admire patience.

My patience ran out 2 seasons ago lol. Referring to post Boyd transition. Dowson is obviously looking to steer us more towards what we did well under Jim and Dorian, he just doesn't have enough players with the right mindset or physicality yet.

I for one am looking forward to moving away from the you score 4 well score 5 approach.

Well, for what it's worth we technically score 4 tries per game and the other guys score a hair more. Saints have scored 400 points through 14 games (2nd most) and have given up 418 (worst). Our record is 7 wins, 7 losses. That's a fair reflection of the team, I think. Not good, not bad. Just meh.

Just realised we are 3rd.

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Deesaint

Just imagine if we had the sale pack in front of our forwards

That would mean we'd be playing with 23 men