Saints v Ealing Prem Cup - 10th September 2023 - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:15:12:07:11 by Saint Ted.

I presume the ‘not available for selection’ means injured
That’s quite a list to start the season

I also presume their number 4 is SA not a medical reference



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:08:12:12:56 by Deesaint.

I hope my reaction to George Hendy being picked to play in the centre is not a foretaste of the season to come ......

Pick him at FB for the two warm up games, then ask him to play in the centre for a "serious?" match. Why not play him there for the warm ups?
(You can see why I'm not a coach!).

Not my idea of good preparation.

Ealing will fancy beating another Wandies team… Main senior squad getting good summer break this year !!

Am I missing the point here as to why we are playing not even the reserves but quite a few academy players, only 5 of this squad would have a chance of being in a premiership 23?!
This is a competitive match with a trophy on the line which we should be trying to win!
Where’s Langdon, Moon, Coles, Augustus, James, Smith, Dingwall, Ramm, Furbank etc, think they should all be involved to some extent!

Quote:

TunbridgeSaint
Am I missing the point here as to why we are playing not even the reserves but quite a few academy players, only 5 of this squad would have a chance of being in a premiership 23?!
This is a competitive match with a trophy on the line which we should be trying to win!
Where’s Langdon, Moon, Coles, Augustus, James, Smith, Dingwall, Ramm, Furbank etc, think they should all be involved to some extent!

I suspect they will be drip fed over the next few weeks but clearly not a competition Saints are targeting. We are P2 L2 so far, a win would be handy for all concerned.

Beatable.

Given the number of new signings for this season, you would think they’d want to get a few of the new guys & new combinations playing together before the premiership starts ?!

Oh well, I’m sure they know what they’re doing and it’s all part of a grand plan !!

Not great value for us season ticket holders though. Hopefully a few more prem starters / new signings involved for the next home game…

The format of the competition is different this season but it looks as if we are playing it in the same spirit, of blooding youngsters and giving experience to fringe players, as in previous years. Hope this selection is strong enough to get a win. Personally I would rather watch a tight game with a narrow win than a miss matched drubbing of either team. A fine line for Dows to make a competitive choice of players whilst not going full bore.

It is a fine line - lots of names not on the absentees list or picked. I can only imagine its down to overall games in the season, or perhaps they're better having another week of fitness/rehab etc than a game at this stage, who knows?

Dows on The Saints Show said that its all games from now on and no breaks until the end of the season. So, saving the squad for later.

So those weeks off during the six nations don’t count?

He probably meant to the end of January, after then there is nearly 2 months off until the next game.

No Tom Collins?

Quote:

Dave Jackson
No Tom Collins?

Got a knee injury.

Probably read more into what he said than I should have!!!

I had hoped for two or three more first teamers. However, Phil Dowson's thinking is sound. It will be great experience for the players and will definitely be of long term benefit.

Against a strong Ealing side, a narrow defeat is quite possible but a win would be an excellent achievement. I'll be there cheering them on, I hope others will too.

I don’t like to criticise but I feel it is justified. So for a considerable hike in ST prices, for what used to be 12 home Premiership matches, 3 European ties in which we used to be at least competitive, a bunch of Monday night Wanderers games which were fun, competitive and with a trophy to play for.

Now we have 1 competition we’re not bothered about winning, 2 games in a competition we can’t win, and 9 actual league matches.

I know it’s not all the clubs fault but come on?

Had a look also at the Ealing line up and that is pretty much a first team, that finished 2nd in the league. I wouldn’t be betting on Saints with stolen money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:08:16:05:30 by St. Andy.

I quite like the youthful aspect. I do worry about Hendy at outside centre. Only caught some of the game last week but it looked like he'd been avoiding Lee Radford. Still, he can be good going forward.

I guess the STH value will matter more when we play at home.

As a contrast I see Exeter have decided to put out a strong team

Wonder who will have made the correct decision come next May

15 Josh Hodge,
14. Ben Hammersley,
13. Henry Slade,
12. Joe Hawkins,
11. Tommy Wyatt,
10. Harvey Skinner,
9. Tom Cairns;
1. Scott Sio,
2. Jack Yeandle ©,
3. Ehren Painter,
4. Matt Postlethwaite,
5. Lewis Pearson,
6. Ethan Roots,
7. Jacques Vermeulen,
8. Greg Fisilau
Rep

Have a look at the Bristol team that they are playing against.

Some clubs have gone strong(ish) , others have not.

Very different approach by club DoRs

I broadly agree with St Andy about value for money for season ticket holders, indeed anybody who buys a ticket for Franklins Gardens. Prices have inexorably increased whilst the number of games on offer has reduced. Prior to COVID I would have attended eleven league games, three European pool fixtures, all domestic Cup matches regardless of format and most Wanderers tussles not to mention pre-season ‘friendlies’ and the home Mobbs game. I do not need to repeat Andy’s list of lost fixtures but you will, I think, get the point.

Saints are consistently inconsistent in everything they do on the field and invariably flatter to deceive year in and year out. We are hopelessly uncompetitive in Europe and always seem to be on yet another long-term plan to rise to Premiership if not European domination. If there are any plaudits flying about they seem to centre around the fiscal abilities of the CEO who seemingly dominates the Club. Some areas of social media seem to suggest that it is complete heresy to criticise anything the Saints do both on and off the field !

I can understand why Phil Dowson is taking a measured approach to the current Cup competition in this rather odd RWC season. That being said, a half hearted approach would not seem to encourage casual spectators to fork out for a competition about which the Club seem rather unconcerned.
in everything they do.

I can see where you are coming from

I’m not sure the Boyd experiment of turning the whole strategy 180 degrees which was subsequently amended to 90 degrees when he realised thescum forward play and tackling where important in the northern hemisphere


I do wish Boyd would go away now he is no longer DoR and it needs to be PD’s strategy

However in saying all that
This year PD needs to perform
It’s now his team
His recruitment plan
His style of play

I am prepared to give him the benefit this season and judge next May on where Saints sit

For me even if we don’t win anything I really need to see a compact complete team, doing the basics well, and everything else that has been missing for so long

Regarding number of games
The easy win would have been to make Loughborough Lightening
Saints lightening and include home games in the season ticket

The low key approach to the Baabaas game has rubbed a good few supporters up the wrong way



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:08:20:05:01 by Deesaint.

Dee, I’m not sure your ‘easy win’ would have satisfied too many people as a significant number have no interest whatsoever in the offshoot teams even though wishing them well in whatever they do.

Ealing will want to show they can cope in the Premiership after not gaining promotion. They will want to show the TV they can host them and there is plenty of room.
I can see us slipping up and after one game finding it very difficult to qualify?

Quote:

Deesaint
I can see where you are coming from
I’m not sure the Boyd experiment of turning the whole strategy 180 degrees which was subsequently amended to 90 degrees when he realised thescum forward play and tackling where important in the northern hemisphere


I do wish Boyd would go away now he is no longer DoR and it needs to be PD’s strategy

However in saying all that
This year PD needs to perform
It’s now his team
His recruitment plan
His style of play



I am prepared to give him the benefit this season and judge next May on where Saints sit

For me even if we don’t win anything I really need to see a compact complete team, doing the basics well, and everything else that has been missing for so long

Regarding number of games
The easy win would have been to make Loughborough Lightening
Saints lightening and include home games in the season ticket

The low key approach to the Baabaas game has rubbed a good few supporters up the wrong way

At the time Saints season tickets were announced the franchises for the women’s premiership had not been awarded. There was no guarantee Lightning would get one.

Quote:

Saint Tim

Quote:

Deesaint
I can see where you are coming from
I’m not sure the Boyd experiment of turning the whole strategy 180 degrees which was subsequently amended to 90 degrees when he realised thescum forward play and tackling where important in the northern hemisphere


I do wish Boyd would go away now he is no longer DoR and it needs to be PD’s strategy

However in saying all that
This year PD needs to perform
It’s now his team
His recruitment plan
His style of play



I am prepared to give him the benefit this season and judge next May on where Saints sit

For me even if we don’t win anything I really need to see a compact complete team, doing the basics well, and everything else that has been missing for so long

Regarding number of games
The easy win would have been to make Loughborough Lightening
Saints lightening and include home games in the season ticket

The low key approach to the Baabaas game has rubbed a good few supporters up the wrong way

At the time Saints season tickets were announced the franchises for the women’s premiership had not been awarded. There was no guarantee Lightning would get one.

While agreeing with NGSB that including Loughborough wouldn’t have appeased many.
Nothing to stop it being done after the franchises were awarded. Can’t see any downside to it. The only loss of revenue would be those ST holders who further pay for Loughborough which I imagine is not much at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:10:13:20:40 by St. Andy.

Just switched on and thought I was on the wrong channel. I've been watching the Vuelta for the past two weeks so I'm used to Orla's voice from that.

Less than fifteen minutes in and three tries conceded - good to see that some things do not change !

Slightly concerning. Commentators saying we are at different times in pre season schedule, but saints have been in a decent amount of time now plus matches. Yes far from first choice selection wise, but set piece worrying with what is our prem props on the field and seemingly our structures are very poor, especially in defence. Ealing so much sharper.

I wonder if the Ealing Number 10 has several clubs after his signature?

It would be Shingler's list.

I'll get my coat.

Quote:

Flook
I wonder if the Ealing Number 10 has several clubs after his signature?
It would be Shingler's list.

I'll get my coat.

Sadly I've had a chuckle at that...

I think that this could turn into something quite embarrassing. Not sure what else we will learn. I can see the same thing happening against Sale in October as the first team players wont have had the chance to make their mistakes in a other games

I’m amazed that before the start and even during the “expert” pundits were saying Saints were the favourites. It isn’t hindsight because my message from days ago, just one look at the team sheets made Ealing heavy favourites.

Quote:

herbie85
Slightly concerning. Commentators saying we are at different times in pre season schedule, but saints have been in a decent amount of time now plus matches. Yes far from first choice selection wise, but set piece worrying with what is our prem props on the field and seemingly our structures are very poor, especially in defence. Ealing so much sharper.

Agreed.

It doesn't matter when in the season it is, or whether you're playing for the under 16s or the first team, the positional demands are very similar. And work is required to be in position all the time. Welcome to the big stage!
Prem props? Mmm, good to see Paul Hill has been working hard over the summer sorting out his issues!

After the wonderful gameplan and defence from England yesterday this is painful to watch.

Lovely try by glister. Followed by an absolute head loss yellow card

Dumb penalties and yellow cards like that just make you want to rip your hair out.

Quote:

ajack
Dumb penalties and yellow cards like that just make you want to rip your hair out.

Absolutely no point in it. It's not 'hard', or physical, it's just stupid. Before TMO it's silly but even more so now.

Probably not expecting a win
However be it that the majority of the team won’t appear in the top 23 I would still expect a youngish team to be busting a gut to get into the game

Very surprising to see some just jogging back when they should be at full pelt

Not a lot of significant difference in defence

Just feel like a group of individuals not a really tight team
knowing what to do and when to do itt. with a undercurrent of urgency

So, four games left in the ‘development Cup’ before the Premiership begins in earnest. We have played three games with a young side who with a couple of honourable exceptions have not really stepped up to the mark. It’s high time that some of the remaining senior players,who are not injured, were selected for the first team or are we not going to bother until the Internationals get back from France. P3L3 - it’s not very encouraging Saints.

I went to Bedford and stood in C block to watch the Barbarians hyped up mis-match. If we see similar selections next weekend then I have better
things to do with my time than watch a glorified training session. Wow, never thought I would say that !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:10:17:26:08 by NGSB.

Quote:

Deesaint
Probably not expecting a win
However be it that the majority of the team won’t appear in the top 23 I would still expect a youngish team to be busting a gut to get into the game

Very surprising to see some just jogging back when they should be at full pelt

Not a lot of significant difference in defence

Just feel like a group of individuals not a really tight team
knowing what to do and when to do itt. with a undercurrent of urgency

Agreed. Especially the trialists, who you would think would want to be in the shop window if not doing everything to get a deal. Not sure I've got some of the selection calls over pre season, but hey ho, if we start the prem season like a house on fire I will eat my words. Shame for glister with the denied hatrick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:10:14:32:43 by herbie85.

Complete devaluation of the competition by our team selection .
As a 50 year plus STH not sure Im going to bother with the remaining home fixtures in this cup.
But hey ho can look forward to 11 home fixtures at £60 a go...

I'm sad to say it but we just don't look like a well-coached team. Basics are poor. Knock ons galore, poor defence as always, we don't consistently resource the ruck.

We were always going to lose the physical battle today. I just can't see what our game plan is to counteract that.

McParland looks out on his feet

Interesting that their Fly half had player of the match, ours who should have been bossing the game was hardly noticed?

Quote:

Chris Hoddle
Interesting that their Fly half had player of the match, ours who should have been bossing the game was hardly noticed?

I’m not sure why
But we do seem to have a few players who had high expectations as they progressed through the age groups
But just couldn’t take the final step to being a top premiership player

Quote:

cparksaint
Complete devaluation of the competition by our team selection .
As a 50 year plus STH not sure Im going to bother with the remaining home fixtures in this cup.
But hey ho can look forward to 11 home fixtures at £60 a go...

Bris supporter here. Don't think you have devalued the competition at all. Its purpose is to be a development competition for young players and your selection buys into that. The problem is, there will be all sorts of mismatched games until there are some guidelines in place around e,g max number of prem caps, min number of eqp etc.

I am sure those who just want to see us chuck the ball about and score a couple of tries will have enjoyed that.

Anyone who is concerned about our defence our pack our inability to manage a game and our general gameplan will have been worried by it.

Quote:

ajack
I am sure those who just want to see us chuck the ball about and score a couple of tries will have enjoyed that.
Anyone who is concerned about our defence our pack our inability to manage a game and our general gameplan will have been worried by it.

Which is broadly what I said earlier. Fault lines running through the club's coaching and not being addressed.

I feel quite sorry for Ealing that we didn’t field a genuine premiership standard side - I’m sure they were looking to assess themselves as a potential future premiership team, and we denied them that opportunity. I doubt they will have learned anything meaningful from this fixture.

More selfishly, I think we also missed an opportunity for what could have been a genuinely competitive pre-season match for our senior premiership squad - will be interesting to see how sharp we are come October compared to those premiership teams that take this competition seriously …

Despite the spin, I’d guess that privately the TV broadcaster was probably less than impressed at the non-event they were presented with as their season opener.

Not a great look for the club.

Quote:

Fat Prop
I feel quite sorry for Ealing that we didn’t field a genuine premiership standard side - I’m sure they were looking to assess themselves as a potential future premiership team, and we denied them that opportunity. I doubt they will have learned anything meaningful from this fixture.
More selfishly, I think we also missed an opportunity for what could have been a genuinely competitive pre-season match for our senior premiership squad - will be interesting to see how sharp we are come October compared to those premiership teams that take this competition seriously …

Despite the spin, I’d guess that privately the TV broadcaster was probably less than impressed at the non-event they were presented with as their season opener.

Not a great look for the club.

Totally agree.

Wouldn’t it have been better if white wanting to see how the younger/fringe players are progressing we also had 7/8 first team players to help and guide them

Just throwing 13 fringe players into the mix to see how they perform with little on pitch support and guidance doesn’t give a good feel over coaching or player development

Surely the coaching team could see how the players would perform in the nearly 3 months they have been together this season

Let alone previous years

I'd expect to see a similar side against Cambridge next week but I hope the matches against Bristol and Bath feature a team full of first team regulars.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but I wasn’t impressed by Ealing at all.

OK so right or wrong we fielded an inadequate team. However there didn't really seem to be sufficient urgency to pick up a point for a 4th try. That might be regretted.

Quote:

ajack
Anyone who is concerned about our defence our pack our inability to manage a game and our general gameplan will have been worried by it.

Didn't see the game but judging by this and other posts, the scoreline and tries conceded, I'll be in the worried but not surprised category.

I stand to be corrected but as far as I can see, only Exeter put anything like a first team out this weekend and they won by a landslide. I hope that someone else gives Ealing a real contest so they can really judge where they are.

Quote:

Iamasaint
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I wasn’t impressed by Ealing at all.

Ealing the town not very impressive. Ealing the sports facility pretty good, bar the plastic. Ealing the team dismantled us. Their front row destroyed our first choice props. Their pack turned the driving maul into a try machine. Nathan Earle was a different class. Ealing could only beat the team we put in front of them and they did so easily. I for one was very impressed!
What didn't impress was Saints who made the same mistakes and showed the same frailties that they have for the last 5 years, couldn't scrummage, couldn't defend the line out and couldn't tackle.
A pretty disappointing day out to be honest.

Quote:

NGSB
I stand to be corrected but as far as I can see, only Exeter put anything like a first team out this weekend and they won by a landslide. I hope that someone else gives Ealing a real contest so they can really judge where they are.

I would imagine they know exactly where they are. They are one of the best teams in the championship and they have good quality players pretty much to a man they would be third to fifth choice in a premiership side. Against a full blown premiership side trying to rack up points they would do well to keep the score down to between fifty and sixty points.

What was worrying is they actually looked more hungry than us and better coached.

Apparently they wanted to look at how the players other than normal 1st team players perform but surely the first televised game in a brand new competition, against a top championship side was not the right game.

Just an idea but what if we had a second team, call them, I don’t know, Wanderers or something like that and play in a competition against other 2nd teams. Maybe on a Monday night.

If it helps at all Sarries sent an experienced team to Cov and got turned over.
There's some quality in the Championship.

I wouldn't read too much into Waller and Hill from this.

We borrowed Karl Garside from Ampthill when he was a PE Teacher and they were in National League One. Our scrum was not good at the time - he got thrown straight in to a Premiership game, shored up the scrum, and got signed. Never made it past reserves here for whatever reason, but was one of our more convincing looking scrumagers in the 7 caps he did get. Do not be surprised in a few weeks time if he runs out for Doncaster and buckles a Saints loosehead.

Saracens were on their relegation tour of shame when Cornish Pirates caused their scrum problems with Barrington & Koch on the front row. The championship is full of "traditional" props who might lack an all-round game, but certainly can give Premiership teams problems at the scrum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:11:00:54:04 by MarchingIn.

Quote:

Iamasaint
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I wasn’t impressed by Ealing at all.

Not sure where you coming from with that comment. As a neutral must say I thought Ealing were very good and were best in all areas of the game. Admittedly Saints picked a very young side but that’s not Ealing’s fault.