Saints v Bath 4th November 2023 - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:10:08:36:39 by Saint Ted.

Furbank as Captain with Lewis back at number eight …..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:12:26:23 by NGSB.

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NGSB
Furbank as Captain ?

From the full story....

With Ludlam only returning to the Club earlier this week from Rugby World Cup duty, fullback George Furbank retains Saints’ captaincy for this Saturday’s clash, but the England back row will line-up from the start for Northampton at No.8.

I see the logic but I’m sure Ludders will be leading the pack nonetheless

No Russell for Bath? Better for our chances, but always good to watch a player like that!

Pleased to see Ludlam back after what must have been a disappointing World Cup for him, personally. It'll be exciting to see Pearson, Underhill and Ludlam all battling it out.

Interesting to see that Braley's no longer listed on the unavailable list but McParland is still preferred. Quite the start he's having to his Saints career as he's certainly already leap-frogged Garside, who has shown bags of promise himself.

Also very pleased to see Sleightholme back in the 23, easy to forget with the emergence of Freeman and Ramm, just how good he can be.

Saintsman94
Braley has been injured and I suppose like others that are returning from injury it is difficult to prove themselves match fit and better than the current team, with no other Wandies games or friendlies to have a run in. I suppose the only other opportunity is Bedford Blues?

Also happy that Spencer isn't starting as he always plays well against us. I hope we are out of sight before he comes on as a replacement.

would have liked to see seabrook start on the other wing liked the look of him so far as ive said before i think hendy is a bit light in the tackle.

Interested to see Coles rather than Moon listed at TH lock. He must be some scrummager.
I really rate Finn Smith and he V Orlando Bailey may well be a look at Englands future options.
Also looking forward to Pearson v Underhill.

I notice that Messrs George, Itoje, Earl, Billy V, Daly and Fazlet all start for Saracens against Leicester this weekend…………

I actually can’t remember seeing Millar-Mills start before. Hoping he’s a big solid unit at tight head there.

From his photo I assumed he was a young and upcoming player but he’s 31, he’s aged very well.

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NGSB
I notice that Messrs George, Itoje, Earl, Billy V, Daly and Fazlet all start for Saracens against Leicester this weekend…………

Yes Tigers have rested all of their internationals but Sarries have gone full bore so hope we don’t get hammered

Well despite some poor actions/decisions by some saints players in the last 15 that could have given Bath the win

Our defence proved strong enough to hold them out
With Sam making a turn over at the death

Who’d have thought that this time last season

Good win
Now something to calm the nerves

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Deesaint
Well despite some poor actions/decisions by some saints players in the last 15 that could have given Bath the win
Our defence proved strong enough to hold them out
With Sam making a turn over at the death

Who’d have thought that this time last season

Good win
Now something to calm the nerves

I had just settled down to listen to the radio when my winter wood delivery arrived! 8 cube of firewood needed moving - and it was raining too.
Still timed it to come back in at the moment we have three minmutes to go. only a six point lead and we kick the f********* ball away! I had a little word with the radion, but I must learn to trust more!!

Now a pint of Landlord.

I wondered why on earth did Tom James kick the ball away from a maul going forwards at pace also at the death. Nearly gave his mom away

Couldn't watch because of issues with my streaming platform. I see the score, but how did we look? Who looked good?

Good team defensive performance, I am loving Curtis L, he has got some real edge about him becoming a favourite already.
I'd be interested to what other supporters thought of Fin Smith, really rate him but personally I don't think he has started this season well at all, and mistakes and poor decision making could of seen us on the other side of the score, IMO Grayson needs to put some pressure on him by playing the next game.

It was good to see a referee telling Bath to use the ball when it was out the scrum and playable instead of the usual blowing upfor a penalty, it really confused Underhill.

James' kicking had been superb all game. IMHO it was right to kick it at the end with about 4 minutes to go but needed to go deep. Looked like he skewed it a bit but still the correct choice in a stalled maul in those conditions.

I thought the referee had a good game
Our scrum was solid
Defence was much better
Kick and chase just isn’t our game

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Saintalex
I thought the referee had a good game
Our scrum was solid
Defence was much better
Kick and chase just isn’t our game

Maybe not but it has won us the last 2 games in poor conditions. When it is dry I am sure we will revert to type but horses for courses at the moment

Not seen a Saints scrum that on top for a long while, even if some of the calls were a bit questionable. Still when things are going your way make the most of it.

Agree with the comments above we did play the conditions better than we often have.

Probably should have been further ahead but a win is a win.

Hard to tell from the game, but looking at the stats Bath had twice as many carries and twice the meters made and we had to tackle more. They also much better territory stats and better possession stats. I think that tells us that defence has improved whilst still being relatively clinical due do poor territory. Also 7 pens conceded is probably the biggest improvement.

Scrummage seems to be holding more than its own so far and with no Lawes or Augustus not to mention the reservations some have about loosehead ; that is some achievement.

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Meiji Jingu
James' kicking had been superb all game. IMHO it was right to kick it at the end with about 4 minutes to go but needed to go deep. Looked like he skewed it a bit but still the correct choice in a stalled maul in those conditions.

Rubbish the maul was still going forward at pace watch it again

Tom James seems to have a habit of kicking the ball away at the death. He did it last week against Newcastle. Perhaps he enjoys a tense finish?😊

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NGSB
Scrummage seems to be holding more than its own so far and with no Lawes or Augustus not to mention the reservations some have about loosehead ; that is some achievement.

You're not wrong.

And I am a card carrying member of the "doubt the loosehead" brigade!

I just hope we don't get into a mindset now we are winning with a kick/ chase/ defend game - there is an argument that we would have scored more tries in a similar game last season.

I personally hope we find more balance and mix it up a little bit more

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Stillgrinning
I just hope we don't get into a mindset now we are winning with a kick/ chase/ defend game -

Well, Alex Mitchell's been practicing it for the last 2 or3 months

The very best teams play the gameplan that best suits the opposition and the conditions. At least we are starting to look like a side who can play in more than one way.

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Flyhooker

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Meiji Jingu
James' kicking had been superb all game. IMHO it was right to kick it at the end with about 4 minutes to go but needed to go deep. Looked like he skewed it a bit but still the correct choice in a stalled maul in those conditions.

Rubbish the maul was still going forward at pace watch it again

It was going forward but James had already been told to use it once before we got moving and its always dangerous to test the refs patience. I would have preferred a kick we could chase though as the 5th point was still available.

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Duckonstilts

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Flyhooker

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Meiji Jingu
James' kicking had been superb all game. IMHO it was right to kick it at the end with about 4 minutes to go but needed to go deep. Looked like he skewed it a bit but still the correct choice in a stalled maul in those conditions.

Rubbish the maul was still going forward at pace watch it again

It was going forward but James had already been told to use it once before we got moving and its always dangerous to test the refs patience. I would have preferred a kick we could chase though as the 5th point was still available.

No wrong again if the maul is moving he doesn't have to play it and it had never stopped. Like I said look at the highlights

I was very impressed with the scrum I must say. Elliot M-M looked like he would struggle against Beno Obano but did in fact, secure the upper hand. Great to see Paul Hill back on the pitch and putting in a ‘finisher’s’ performance too in the tight.
Clearly the game plan was pre-determined given the conditions, and given it’s not our natural game it was important that we committed to it and didn’t lose cohesion and hand the initiative away. Bath had the freedom to play with little expectations of a win and were it not for a few silly lapses could well have come away with the spoils.
Given the strength of the squad not playing yesterday, we should feel confident we have the resources to make a strong challenge this season. I think the league is more open than ever this year with several strong sides and not just the usual suspects. I suspect Sarries might find they’re no longer a cut above the rest and to be frank I think their England contingent are past their prime now.

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Sir Hector
I suspect Sarries might find they’re no longer a cut above the rest and to be frank I think their England contingent are past their prime now.

I doubt it. Those like the Vuniplola brothers and Daly who are past their best will be available all season, then there's McFarland and Christie plus new recruit Willis. The good news is that George and Dan will both be tied up with England, though back for the play-offs.

89% completed tackles was fantastic, especially given how much possession Bath had and the fact that 62% of the match was played on our half. The lineout was almost flawless and the forwards were brilliant (I think the scrum penalty count was 4-1 or 5-1, if you count the time the time their 9 was offside).

Our kick chase game has plenty of room for improvement, though. I felt that the poor execution of the kicks accounted for the possession and territory being in Bath's favour. Tom James has the ability to box kick from our 22 deep into the opposition half - great when you want to clear your lines and advanced 40m up the field. Deep kicks that didn't find touch were nowhere near contestable and the lack of pressure on Bath's back 3 often lead to losing the territorial battle. It seemed as though their kicks applied far more pressure or were successfully contested/caused knock-ons.

Similarly, our back 3 frequently defaulted to kicking it, often aimlessly. I get the risks of running the ball and getting isolated etc, but kicks ought to be contestable or find space. The 50/22 law should make that more achievable.

Always remember the Hooper comment a couple of seasons ago when giving a mid game interview to BT and asked how Bath will see out game they were winning.. something along the lines of ‘grrr we’ll keep scrummaging’ they had us on toast but thought at the time what a completely narrow minded view of how to play at elite level, as it turned out their forward bullying tactics only worked against half the teams and came unstuck against more powerful sides, Hooper also came unstuck along the way. The selection for Saturdays game smacked of a similar tactic so it was good to see us repel and in fact dominate their forwards, makes a nice change. Thought we were in complete control for most of the game and they looked devoid of how to score, only our errors affording them field position and the two they did score. How we nearly contrived to lose it I don’t know but the fact we didn’t implode is a good sign

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Meiji Jingu

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Saintalex
I thought the referee had a good game
Our scrum was solid
Defence was much better
Kick and chase just isn’t our game

Maybe not but it has won us the last 2 games in poor conditions. When it is dry I am sure we will revert to type but horses for courses at the moment

The conditions were actually quite good, much better than forecast. I wonder if we were playing to the expected conditions rather than what was actually happening?

whilst it may not have rained continuously, it did rain pretty heavily in parts and I bet the ground and therefore the ball was very slippery.

Would you not play the conditions of the ball/ pitch rather than the weather?

Youtube Highlights

At 2mins 30, in the build up to De Glanville's try, there appeared to be 1, if not 2 forward passes. Was there a reason given for not checking?

1st from De Glanville then possibly 1 from Redpath

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St Stokey.
whilst it may not have rained continuously, it did rain pretty heavily in parts and I bet the ground and therefore the ball was very slippery.
Would you not play the conditions of the ball/ pitch rather than the weather?

The only rain I saw was at half time and it didn't appear wet during the game - I had to put my sun glasses on for about 20 minutes! There were very few knock ons (due to a wet ball) and I think we were kicking more to reduce risk of turnovers out wide and to improve our defence - not a bad plan as it turned out!

Interesting game.
There was a thread on here that asked who or what would make the biggest difference to Saints prospects this season. After that game I'd say "Engine Room" both Moon and Coles were immense.
Another very impressive game by Smith. He plays with a composure that belies his years and links well. Great job by the 9 too.
Ironically Leal seemed to have the patience of a Saint. Very surprised not to see some marched back 10s given the continuous chat from pretty much everyone in yellow plus his repeated warnings! Interesting to see him ping slow play just like he did last week against Sarries.
Milar-Mills looks a useful signing.

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St Stokey.
Youtube Highlights
At 2mins 30, in the build up to De Glanville's try, there appeared to be 1, if not 2 forward passes. Was there a reason given for not checking?

1st from De Glanville then possibly 1 from Redpath

I thought same especially Dr Glanville to Reid out wide. Certainly looks iffy enough to have been checked.

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St Stokey.
Youtube Highlights
At 2mins 30, in the build up to De Glanville's try, there appeared to be 1, if not 2 forward passes. Was there a reason given for not checking?

1st from De Glanville then possibly 1 from Redpath

On reflink the TMO said "checked, all good". From our seat in the Churches stand it looked forward.

did he now? Hmmm... not sure he got that one right.

hope that bonus point doesn't come back to haunt us.

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St Stokey.
did he now? Hmmm... not sure he got that one right.
hope that bonus point doesn't come back to haunt us.

Interesting point you make regarding the bonus point.

We bang on about leadership and so on, but where was the leadership to get us the try bonus point. We were at three tries at 50(?) minutes, so there was plenty of time to get ourselves sorted.
Yet as has already been pointed out previously, we spent too much time trying to play in our own back yard.

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St Stokey.
did he now? Hmmm... not sure he got that one right.
hope that bonus point doesn't come back to haunt us.

There's also the 4th try bonus we ought to have got! The forwards provided the platform to win with a bigger margin IMO.

Longers, thats a difficult question. We were 2 scores clear for a while so there was that bit of security until the 67th minuet. Why we didnt push then i dont know.

But after that point? Risk going for the 5 and loose 3? in a close game? Perhaps we were making sure the game was won. There have been a lot of very close endings to games this season.

And as for the weather, there were a fair few knockons, if you were wearing yellow :-)