Saints v Sale 18th October 2024

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:25:09:17:32 by Saint Ted.

Considering the injuries that's a good looking team. Putting tommy back in the centre is wise. We have other excellent wingers but noone else able to fill in for Dingers

George has done well with his HIA protocol

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Duckonstilts
Considering the injuries that's a good looking team. Putting tommy back in the centre is wise. We have other excellent wingers but noone else able to fill in for Dingers

Especially with Thame being added to the N/A list.

Not sure how I feel about a Tiger announcing our Team!*

Furbank playing is great news. Reed missing for them he's been on fire . Serious impact from the bench .

Some good head to heads here too - eg our 16 and 7 should be out to show Borthwick why they should be with England rather than their opponents!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:17:13:10:35 by Matthew.

Sale won’t be subtle. They will try to replicate what Tigers did and beat us up, up front. So far this season, we have badly lost the physical battle away (bar defence which has been decent) and done far better to hold our own at home.

Freeman at centre at Hendy on the wing brings some much needed physicality - though in the backs. I wish we had the equivalent options in the forwards.

We are at home which should galvanise us but when I honestly look at our selected starting pack v Tigers pack last week and Sale’s this week the best combined pack each week is not Saints-heavy in my book sadly. Appreciating injuries to Augustus and Coles skew this.

It feels like the game’s outcome will come down to how well our pack matches up to Sale’s. It feels like it will be close. COYS!!!

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St Stokey.
Not sure how I feel about a Tiger announcing our Team!*

Interesting to see Hendy come straight in with Ramm on the bench, rather than the other way round. Signals how highly the coaches rate Hendy.

Play your own game Saints, let the opposition worry about you !

Hoping Gavin Thornbury will bring some needed grunt in the pack and HH on the bench should make it continue

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St Stokey.
Not sure how I feel about a Tiger announcing our Team!*

As a convert from my home side of Tigers by my late Father-in-law, it’s never too late to see the light! Season ticket holder and twice seen us win the title of supporting us/saints for 20yrs!

Sorry never going to be crossing to the Dark Side 😆

Pollock at 8 is interesting. He did really well off the base of the scrum last week, like an angry version of Sam Simmonds.

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undersizedprop2
Pollock at 8 is interesting. He did really well off the base of the scrum last week, like an angry version of Sam Simmonds.

I was thinking more of a Ben Earl type

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St Stokey.

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undersizedprop2
Pollock at 8 is interesting. He did really well off the base of the scrum last week, like an angry version of Sam Simmonds.

I was thinking more of a Ben Earl type

Did he spend more time whooping and hollering than getting on with his job then?

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SaintsDuncan

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St Stokey.

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undersizedprop2
Pollock at 8 is interesting. He did really well off the base of the scrum last week, like an angry version of Sam Simmonds.

I was thinking more of a Ben Earl type

Did he spend more time whooping and hollering than getting on with his job then?

Not sure we had much cause to do so.

Backs look good and very welcome to see Furbs, TJ and Hendy are all available. Decent bench too. Sale will no doubt be very physical and look to slow the game down, so hope we can generate sufficient quick ball to test them out wide. If we win this game it will mean no competitive home losses for a year by the time we play Tigers on 1 November. Think it will be close, hope for another big performance from the 16th man.

Where’s Gavin Thornbury come from?

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Buzzer
Where’s Gavin Thornbury come from?

Released by Connaught after a lot of injuries. He’s played for Ireland A.

Extra entertainment for saints supporters tonight the return of Karl Dickson one of the touch judges

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Buzzer
Where’s Gavin Thornbury come from?

[www.northamptonsaints.co.uk]

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st john of boot
Extra entertainment for saints supporters tonight the return of Karl Dickson one of the touch judges

That's not funny

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Sans Culottes

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st john of boot
Extra entertainment for saints supporters tonight the return of Karl Dickson one of the touch judges

That's not funny

Surely a verse or two of:

Are you Dickson, Are you Dickson, Are you Dickson in disguise?

OMG!!

Unbelievable! Not even half time yet!

Well, sale have been awful, BUT we have been clinical as you like. Great stuff saints, got to admit was nervous prior to this one!

Come on you Saints! Don't let them back into the game

Still nervous. Have form for switching off with a lead, as recently as Exeter this season...

Don't worry Herbie, we're Ramming it home!

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Stockers
Don't worry Herbie, we're Ramming it home!

Less nervous now stockers, especially with puns like that! Think our game management has been impressive last 15 mins or so.

Lots of impressive performances, especially in the forwards where I thought we may be up against it, but Angus scott-young always does a lot of the often unseen dog. Underrated imho.

WOW!
Fantastic result lads and I'm sorry I missed the match, I will have to catch up somehow. I predicted a three point win as recent matches against the Sharks at home have always been close (3-4 points).

Hopefully we can Get our first away win at Bristol and what a way to banish the disappointment of last week's derby.

On a side note, congratulations to Newcastle in finally getting a W, a stand in fly half by the name of Ethan Grayson slotted 3 conversions and a penalty.

Freeman, pollock, Hendy, furbank and ramm stood out for me. Everything seemed to stick in that first half unlike last week. Shout out to Thornbury aswell thought he did well.

Didn’t expect that. Great start to the weekend. Hope Robbie Smith is ok 👌

I really worried before the game that the Curry/ Curry/ Du Preez back row would make sure Sale had the upper hand but NO! The Curries got increasingly frustrated by Henry , Tom P and ASY and their No 8 was pretty anonymous IMHO.

As for our back division.....just sublime!

Alex Sanderson had the good grace to be interviewed by TNT at the start of the second half but bless him, he seemed lost for words.

Well done you Saints!

Thought ASY and Pearson outshined the Curry brothers
Very industrious and destructive

Our pack really stood up and gave a lot of front foot ball

All round fantastic

I do like Freeman at 13

Nothing better than Friday night watching Saints in full flow

Let’s hope Robbie Smith is ok

Great game to watch.

Saints’ back row totally outperformed Sale’s, why Pearson is not in the England squad I do not know!!

Fin Smith seems to be getting better each week and I loved the comment on TV commentary about him playing off the cuff that even his own team doesn’t know what he’s going to do!!

Freeman was probably correctly awarded MOM. Personally I still think Wing is his best position but with Burger and M1 out and the strength of wing options he’s a fantastic player to have to step in at 13. That versatility is also a string to his bow with regards to England and B&I Lions.

I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness

Respect Rory!

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Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

One of our best players so far this season . He's been brilliant .

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Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

Didn’t score many points in my Fantasy League team yesterday evening!

18 straight home victories stretching back over a year!

Luck/bounce of the ball/officiating/opposition costly errors favoured us v Sale, whereas all those elements went against us v Tigers. We weren’t as bad as the scoreline v Tigers suggested nor as good as the Sale scoreline suggested. Whilst very enjoyable to watch such a handsome victory. It shows just how lethal our backs can be if they get their hands on the ball.

Whilst the try frenzy in the first half was fantastic I really liked the smartness of how we played in the second half. Brilliant game management by Smith to keep pushing them back into their 22 in the rain. Even in the final defensive set we were doing our damndest to keep them out and succeeded. Our defence is now an asset rather than a liability. Like Neil said Rory looks transformed in defence.

Freeman at 13 and Hendy back really worked. We’ve badly needed some physical go forward ball.

Collectively our pack struggles physically against physical packs. Scrum and maul defence remain concerns. Also we have to work on our restarts. We sloppily turned over the first 3 restarts into our half in the game gifting easy field position and pressure to the opposition. A pattern from other games this season.

McParland cops a lot of criticism on this forum. Unsurprisingly as a 19 year old he makes some poor choices/mistakes which I get can be frustrating but he is the full package for me and has a bright future IMHO. Great pass, accurate kicker. He makes breaks. The commentators also highlighted where he put his body on the line and won a defensive contest against a prop. His decision-making will improve with experience. But I’d see him and Pollock being our future leaders in years to come and 200 plus cap Saints. Once again our Academy has delivered and our set up is fostering quality novices to thrive. I still can’t believe Tigers academy let Freeman go!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:19:09:17:54 by Saint Maul.

Quote:

Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

Oooh! Deja - vu!!

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Longers

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Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

Oooh! Deja - vu!!

Does he play for Toulon????

Quote:

Saint Maul
Luck/bounce of the ball/officiating/opposition costly errors favoured us v Sale, whereas all those elements went against us v Tigers. We weren’t as bad as the scoreline v Tigers suggested nor as good as the Sale scoreline suggested. Whilst very enjoyable to watch such a handsome victory. It shows just how lethal our backs can be if they get their hands on the ball.

👍

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Saint Maul
I still can’t believe Tigers academy let Freeman go!

Thanks for reminding me!

Hard to single anyone out last night. Terrific team performance.

Some others not yet mentioned: Iyogun really bought the physicality early doors. Munga’s work rate is ridiculous. He’s got some engine and has been a star the last few weeks. I liked the look of CHH too, quite a unit with a bit of niggle. James was great. And McParland looks much more confident after the Tigers game.

We’ve still lots of room for growth!

Agreed on McParland although I thought he tried to make an impact too soon. I felt like he needed to get up to speed before trying to be too clever down the 5m blindside. Still, he improved from then on.

Pollock compared to both Currys and Du Preez did not look like a 19 year old kid. A full 80 minute stint and looked for the most part, like a seasoned pro. Get that long term contract written up!

No pressure on Wright and Makepeace-Cubitt but their u20 team mates are setting a high bar! Graham getting injured, as sad as that is, could be the break that Pollock needs. He's going to get a significant run in the 1st team.

After the traffic problems worse than the usual level of rather less than ideal, compounded by it normally being a rush to get to games on Friday nights, I really enjoyed the game last night after eventually making it to the ground. I thought the first half was essentially Sale playing at our speed and failing (hence all the handling errors etc. which we were clinical in pouncing on), and the second half Sale doing what they could to bring us down to their speed which, while limiting any further damage for them, we were well able to cope with.

Two thoughts to throw out there: 1) when was the last time we managed to go two league matches on the bounce without coughing up a bonus point to our opposition? and 2) have we given up on enforcing the changes around Dupont's Law already? The total lack of urgency when retreating was particularly noticeable during the period of kick tennis at the start of the second half.

Disappointed for Robbie Smith - just as I was hoping we'd start rotating / resting our top 2 hookers to keep both sharp and not overplayed, and we get what could be another bad injury in the squad.

The light show was better than last time, but suffered a bit from many people still finding their way to their seats when it started, especially in the Barwell Stand. But I still miss the fireworks!

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tigersimon

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Saint Maul
Luck/bounce of the ball/officiating/opposition costly errors favoured us v Sale, whereas all those elements went against us v Tigers. We weren’t as bad as the scoreline v Tigers suggested nor as good as the Sale scoreline suggested. Whilst very enjoyable to watch such a handsome victory. It shows just how lethal our backs can be if they get their hands on the ball.

👍

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Saint Maul
I still can’t believe Tigers academy let Freeman go!

Thanks for reminding me!

Charity.

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Matthew
...2) have we given up on enforcing the changes around Dupont's Law already? The total lack of urgency when retreating was particularly noticeable during the period of kick tennis at the start of the second half...

Not to mention just plain old offside at the kick. We had one last home game - Freeman's try saving tackle that should have been a Saints penalty back near the 10 and at least three last night (Furbank chasing the kick ahead that went dead and, ironically, Sale player that got binned was a yard offside)

Quote:

Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

I've always put him ahead of everyone's "saviour" Odendaal. He offers so much more than a bigger bloke running straight.

I missed it, as I was a triple tribute band punk gig, and a relative messaged me with the score at HT, but I watched the 2nd half when home. Obviously Sale got in to it a bit later, but Saints came good. Some awesome moves.

Hang on: I thought Saints had slipped back badly and Pollock was part of an underpowered pack?

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Connorman
Hang on: I thought Saints had slipped back badly and Pollock was part of an underpowered pack?

Well we are 5th and a bunch of our best forwards are injured so a relative strength in the pack has now become more of a lottery.

So we are struggling, but we are still a good team. We need to improve further to win away. Thankfully our depth is helping out a lot but it will take time to be good enough to defend the championship.

I think we can, but we need to start having more players recover than getting injured.

Thought ASY put in a shift again on Friday. Always gives it sverything.

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ramseysaint

Quote:

Neil-H
I do think something needs to be said, that 2 years ago a lot of us were questioning Rory Hutchinson and his lack of defence and probably rightly so, but now 2 years later, he defence is mental and his work rate around the tackle area is incredible,, so much hidden stuff he does… he certainly has turned his game around… and still has those silky touches and great footwork n awareness
Respect Rory!

I've always put him ahead of everyone's "saviour" Odendaal. He offers so much more than a bigger bloke running straight.

Such an odd statement. Odendaal was fantastic when he'd settled last year and was clearly far more than ' a truck'. Did you not notice that when we get over the gainline in midfield we often end up scoring, TF and BO both offer that ability as well as us being able to play out the back with a ball player like Hutch. Compliment each other incredibly well.

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Duckonstilts

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Connorman
Hang on: I thought Saints had slipped back badly and Pollock was part of an underpowered pack?

So we are struggling, but we are still a good team. We need to improve further to win away. Thankfully our depth is helping out a lot but it will take time to be good enough to defend the championship.

.

Season is only 5 games in, we've won 3 lost 2. Hardly indicative of being 'unable to defend our championship'. I'm quietly confident, we are getting necessary game time in to squad players which will serve us very well, we've got 5/6 of our 23 out and hopefully come April/May time we'll have much more availability as per last season. Nothing is won in October. Very happy with where we're at.

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Push Over
Thought ASY put in a shift again on Friday. Always gives it sverything.

I thought it was his best game in the BGG.

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ZuluSaint

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Duckonstilts

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Connorman
Hang on: I thought Saints had slipped back badly and Pollock was part of an underpowered pack?

So we are struggling, but we are still a good team. We need to improve further to win away. Thankfully our depth is helping out a lot but it will take time to be good enough to defend the championship.

.

Season is only 5 games in, we've won 3 lost 2. Hardly indicative of being 'unable to defend our championship'. I'm quietly confident, we are getting necessary game time in to squad players which will serve us very well, we've got 5/6 of our 23 out and hopefully come April/May time we'll have much more availability as per last season. Nothing is won in October. Very happy with where we're at.

Currently I'm a little more concerned about the bonus points we're not picking up and the bonus points we're allowing the opposition to collect rather than the W/D/L record, which is OK, especially with the away games we've had so far. Compare with, for instance, Bristol, who we're a bonus-point win behind in the table after just 5 games despite both teams having won 3 and lost 2.

(After just 5 games ... or more than 25% of the way through the league season? Or both? We don't get many games any more, do we! We've had a third of our home league games and it's still only mid October!)

Bonus points aside, we have beaten Chiefs, Quins and Sale at home as we did last season; we have lost at Bristol and Leicester as we did last season. Whilst that sequence will not lead to very much confidence of a result with a weakened team at Bristol next Friday, it does show that we should not get too downcast nor excited just yet !

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NGSB
Bonus points aside, we have beaten Chiefs, Quins and Sale at home as we did last season; we have lost at Bristol and Leicester as we did last season. Whilst that sequence will not lead to very much confidence of a result with a weakened team at Bristol next Friday, it does show that we should not get too downcast nor excited just yet !

lost at Bath & Leicester.

I thought it was quite telling that Tommy Freeman, playing out of his 'normal' position was recognised by BO'D, of all people, as man of the match playing at 13. That's some accolade.

Not sure if it helps the discussion or not, here's a comparison of the tables for this year and last year for the same point in the season....

The noticeable thing to me is the diifference in bonus points.

We have less this year but the league has far more (40 v 26) I think.

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Push Over
The noticeable thing to me is the diifference in bonus points.
We have less this year but the league has far more (40 v 26) I think.

In addition, using St Ted’s stats, we had the second highest bonus points at this time last season. This season we have the second lowest.

It's maybe not quite so bad for us if you look at bonus points dropped (ie, those you could have picked up but didn't). However, given our much-vaunted attack we still have only two, both for TBPs at home. Bristol, conversely, have achieved every bonus point possible (all 5 TBPs and 2 LBPs):

Saracens - 2
Bath - 3
Tigers - 3
Bristol - 0
Saints - 5
Sale - 5
Quins - 3
Gloucester - 2
Exeter - 5
Newcastle - 9

Bonus points conceded might also be worth a look, but that's more manual to figure out. I think we've conceded 4 from 8 possible (Bath 1, Chiefs 1, Quins 2, Tigers 0, and Sale 0). It certainly feels an area we could tighten up on.

how are we doing in terms of points compared to the like for like fixtures on last year?

It seems to me everyone will still have the same opinion as they had going into the season.

We have won all our home games but lost all our away games. Against Sale we proved when things go our way we still have the ability to look as good as anyone but we have also proved against Bath and Tigers when they don't go our way we don't really look to have the the answers.

Bonus points do seem to be more of a problem this season both in picking them up and letting the opposition pick them up. In what looks like being a close season that could be important.

A five point haul and other results going for us could see us third by the end of the weekend and right in the mix, equally a five point defeat and things going against us could see us eight and ten points off a playoff spot.

Plenty to be pleased or worried about.

I calculate that 27% of the season has already gone and 33% of home games

I think having a lot of our Key players missing/injured over the first 5 games have had an effect on our Bonus Points.

Plenty of rugby still to be played. We've lost at Bath (favourites this year) and Tigers on a wet, soggy pitch. Hardly time to panic. Performances have been getting better, even at Tigers we played quite OK. We'll lose more games and win more, ultimately we'll probably be top 3 I would suspect, and I'd back us on a flat track come May.

Is it right we may also miss our England players for Bristol (well we know that) Gloucester as they have to have their enforced "rest" then for the 6 Nations for the same reasons as the Autumn internationals, Harlequin and Tigers?

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John Rickerd
I think having a lot of our Key players missing/injured over the first 5 games have had an effect on our Bonus Points.

True. But Bath and Sale have also had a lot of injuries too.

I guess it also depends which position you have long-term injuries in. Last season we were quite lucky. For Iyogun we had Waller and Haffar. Ludlam we had Pearson, Graham and ASY. Odendaal we had Freeman (I’m not quite sure why it’s taken 5 games to use Freeman at centre - his game highlights reel after the final whistle v Sale showed what we had been missing for breaking the gainline through physicality (and skill).

Also I’d agree with ajack- our results can be spun anyway based on pre-conceived notions. Bristol is a 10 pointer at the worst possible time for respective team strengths. I think we have to go with an attacking mindset. A win will be tough but a bonus point or two could make all the difference come end of season.

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Chris Hoddle
Is it right we may also miss our England players for Bristol (well we know that) Gloucester as they have to have their enforced "rest" then for the 6 Nations for the same reasons as the Autumn internationals, Harlequin and Tigers?

The Post international window rest doesn’t have to be the first match back as I understand it!
Also I believe this applies to all Internationals not just England players!